(01 Aug 2021, 12:47 pm)Adrian wrote I agree, and I've seen a few queries around this already. The merging of the Newcastle and Gateshead bubbles suggest its inclusive, especially when the dashed boundary line doesn't split the two.

There also seems to be some confusion at whether these tickets compliment the existing Go Zones or replace them. Colouring the zones identically to the Go Zones doesn't help here. 

I note that the ticket page states "The ticket offers are designed to offer a range of very simple headline fares with easy-to-understand fare zones that match borough and county boundaries.", but I've noticed that Springwell falls outside of the City of Sunderland zone, despite the original Springwell being part of the administrative boundary. 

Having got in touch with customer services I was informed that Newcastle is in fact outside of the Gateshead zone, so would result in being charged the full fare rather than it being capped.

It's bordering on false advertising to me, there definitely needs to be something done to make it clearer that it's not included

(01 Aug 2021, 1:12 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Having got in touch with customer services I was informed that Newcastle is in fact outside of the Gateshead zone, so would result in being charged the full fare rather than it being capped.

It's bordering on false advertising to me, there definitely needs to be something done to make it clearer that it's not included

Err....Newcastle is not in Gateshead, cannot get much clearer than that mind.

(01 Aug 2021, 7:04 pm)citaro5284 wrote Err....Newcastle is not in Gateshead, cannot get much clearer than that mind.

Yes, I think we can all work out county and borough boundaries and are aware of them but there’s already a few anomalies ie. Springwell* not being included on the City of Sunderland ticket / Seaham and Murton are included which means that ticket isn’t really following boundaries. The map for some reason looks as if Newcastle City centre maybe included, GNE caused the confusion with the map.

*Edit: However in fairness to GNE, Springwell can’t seem decide where it is, Wikipedia says part of Gateshead and has a Gateshead NE9 postcode. Is it actually Sunderland?

(01 Aug 2021, 12:47 pm)Adrian wrote I agree, and I've seen a few queries around this already. The merging of the Newcastle and Gateshead bubbles suggest its inclusive, especially when the dashed boundary line doesn't split the two.

There also seems to be some confusion at whether these tickets compliment the existing Go Zones or replace them. Colouring the zones identically to the Go Zones doesn't help here. 

I note that the ticket page states "The ticket offers are designed to offer a range of very simple headline fares with easy-to-understand fare zones that match borough and county boundaries.", but I've noticed that Springwell falls outside of the City of Sunderland zone, despite the original Springwell being part of the administrative boundary. 

It's still in the Sunderland Zone, must be a mistake for the map. On the info drivers have the fare stage border is Springwell Co-Op, also where the Gateshead Zone starts going the other way.

Springwell is defo Sunderland, as I have taught there and work for City of Sunderland Council.

You may remember my post that I beat the bus on my bike...

(01 Aug 2021, 7:04 pm)citaro5284 wrote Err....Newcastle is not in Gateshead, cannot get much clearer than that mind.

Except the map shows that Newcastle and Gateshead are in the same bubble, a bubble that is partially inside of the Gateshead zone.
Heck, even the word Gateshead isn't in the Gateshead zone!

In most cases aren’t Newcastle and Gateshead the same fare anyway?

Travelling from Chester and Birtley, Gateshead and Newcastle are always the same fare

(01 Aug 2021, 10:16 pm)Ambassador wrote In most cases aren’t Newcastle and Gateshead the same fare anyway?

Travelling from Chester and Birtley, Gateshead and Newcastle are always the same fare

With the usual ticketing they are, but since trips within Gateshead will be capped at £1.70 there will be the situation where travelling to Gateshead will be £1.70 but crossing over the Tyne one extra stop will result in the price jumping up to £3-4

(01 Aug 2021, 10:35 pm)streetdeckfan wrote With the usual ticketing they are, but since trips within Gateshead will be capped at £1.70 there will be the situation where travelling to Gateshead will be £1.70 but crossing over the Tyne one extra stop will result in the price jumping up to £3-4

Surely they wouldn’t do that? That would make it cheaper to get off at Gateshead and hop onto the Metro….the literal plan that was the 1980s public transport strategy for Tyneside. 

It’s nice seeing a bus company that is a monopoly having to fight for passengers and seeing what it’s capable of. It’s core market is hugely eroded so it now needs to compete with Uber and Minicabs for leisure as opposed to the car.

(01 Aug 2021, 10:41 pm)Ambassador wrote Surely they wouldn’t do that? That would make it cheaper to get off at Gateshead and hop onto the Metro….the literal plan that was the 1980s public transport strategy for Tyneside. 

It’s nice seeing a bus company that is a monopoly having to fight for passengers and seeing what it’s capable of. It’s core market is hugely eroded so it now needs to compete with Uber and Minicabs for leisure as opposed to the car.

That's what customer services told me, prices revert to the full standard single if the journey starts or ends outside of the Gateshead Zone

(01 Aug 2021, 10:50 pm)streetdeckfan wrote That's what customer services told me, prices revert to the full standard single if the journey starts or ends outside of the Gateshead Zone

Christ, that’s the bus fare equivalent of click bait.

(01 Aug 2021, 11:34 pm)Ambassador wrote Christ, that’s the bus fare equivalent of click bait.

This is exactly why Newcastle and Gateshead being in the same bubble infuriates me so much!

I've shown a few of my friends the map and they all thought that Newcastle and Gateshead would be charged the same fare since they're represented as being the same place

Noticed on the app that there's a new category for 'Summer Saving Fares', which includes the three area tickets in 1 Day, 7 Day and Flexi 5 formats, All GoZones 1 day ticket and the £1 evening fare ticket.

The 'GoZones' category is still there, but it seems to have been unnecessarily conflated by adding the same tickets above into this category, with the same colours as the standard tickets which are still available, but you have to scroll right down to the bottom of the category to see them.

I also noticed on one of the Gateshead borough ad posts that GNE are running, someone asked about Newcastle being included and they were pointed to this link, which gives a maximum return fare of £6 and the £6 All Zones day ticket, despite a cheaper option being to buy a Purple Zone day ticket. I wonder if the single Go Zone tickets are being discouraged as part of this?

(02 Aug 2021, 9:12 am)Adrian wrote Noticed on the app that there's a new category for 'Summer Saving Fares', which includes the three area tickets in 1 Day, 7 Day and Flexi 5 formats, All GoZones 1 day ticket and the £1 evening fare ticket.

The 'GoZones' category is still there, but it seems to have been unnecessarily conflated by adding the same tickets above into this category, with the same colours as the standard tickets which are still available, but you have to scroll right down to the bottom of the category to see them.

I also noticed on one of the Gateshead borough ad posts that GNE are running, someone asked about Newcastle being included and they were pointed to this link, which gives a maximum return fare of £6 and the £6 All Zones day ticket, despite a cheaper option being to buy a Purple Zone day ticket. I wonder if the single Go Zone tickets are being discouraged as part of this?

Is it just me or does it seem like they're actively going out of their way to confuse passengers?

(01 Aug 2021, 11:34 pm)Ambassador wrote Christ, that’s the bus fare equivalent of click bait.

Well not really it does say gateshead zone. Thought it would be obvious that coming from outside this zone would be more expensive.....you know as your not in gateshead. In the same way it's a set price in zone A on the metro, however if you come from outside zone A, the price goes up 

(02 Aug 2021, 9:55 am)JP6004 wrote Well not really it does say gateshead zone. Thought it would be obvious that coming from outside this zone would be more expensive.....you know as your not in gateshead. In the same way it's a set price in zone A on the metro, however if you come from outside zone A, the price goes up 

So I click on the map and it shows Newcastle and Gateshead in the same bubble, you can't actually see the Gateshead boundary. 

From that map visual alone it would intimate that services from Newcastle to Gateshead are in the same fare zone. If they took the massively misleading white dot off and replaced it with something less misleading that would work.

(02 Aug 2021, 9:55 am)JP6004 wrote Well not really it does say gateshead zone. Thought it would be obvious that coming from outside this zone would be more expensive.....you know as your not in gateshead. In the same way it's a set price in zone A on the metro, however if you come from outside zone A, the price goes up 

The Metro map clearly shows what the zones are: https://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/f...2018_0.pdf

The Gateshead Borough ticket map doesn't: https://images-gonortheast.passenger-web...eshead.pdf

(02 Aug 2021, 10:01 am)Ambassador wrote So I click on the map and it shows Newcastle and Gateshead in the same bubble, you can't actually see the Gateshead boundary. 

From that map visual alone it would intimate that services from Newcastle to Gateshead are in the same fare zone. If they took the massively misleading white dot off and replaced it with something less misleading that would work.

Surely this indicates the £1.50 special cross tyne fare?

(02 Aug 2021, 10:01 am)Ambassador wrote So I click on the map and it shows Newcastle and Gateshead in the same bubble, you can't actually see the Gateshead boundary. 

From that map visual alone it would intimate that services from Newcastle to Gateshead are in the same fare zone. If they took the massively misleading white dot off and replaced it with something less misleading that would work.

Exactly, and if we're going by the logic of only things inside the boundary line (that you can't see), then Gateshead wouldn't be in Gateshead because they've put the word Gateshead on the wrong side of the Tyne!

(02 Aug 2021, 10:03 am)Adrian wrote The Metro map clearly shows what the zones are: https://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/f...2018_0.pdf

The Gateshead Borough ticket map doesn't: https://images-gonortheast.passenger-web...eshead.pdf

My point is the gateshead borough is defined as one zone, travelling from outside of this zone, say from Chester or Washington would naturally cost more

(02 Aug 2021, 10:13 am)JP6004 wrote My point is the gateshead borough is defined as one zone, travelling from outside of this zone, say from Chester or Washington would naturally cost more

But they're both quite clearly outside of the boundary. Newcastle and Gateshead are together, in the same bubble, on the edge of the boundary.

(02 Aug 2021, 10:13 am)JP6004 wrote My point is the gateshead borough is defined as one zone, travelling from outside of this zone, say from Chester or Washington would naturally cost more

Why does the dashed zone boundary line on the map not divide Gateshead and Newcastle then? 

By bonding Gateshead and Newcastle together on a map, and not dividing them by any clear boundary, creates ambiguity and leaves it open to customer interpretation.

JP6004
My point is the gateshead borough is defined as one zone, travelling from outside of this zone, say from Chester or Washington would naturally cost more

But it's not defined as one zone as there are anomalies such as the ambiguous Newcastle/Gateshead bubble and the fact that Springwell Village is included despite not being in the borough of Gateshead.

You can make the same argument for Sunderland with the inclusion of Murton and Seaham, both if which lie outside the Borough of Sunderland.

Mark.

(02 Aug 2021, 10:16 am)streetdeckfan wrote But they're both quite clearly outside of the boundary. Newcastle and Gateshead are together, in the same bubble, on the edge of the boundary.

Again isn't this highlighting the cross tyne £1.50 fare.

So I decided to do a cheeky edit to show what it should look like, and it's quite obvious that it was initially designed to have two distinct bubbles for Gateshead and Newcastle, otherwise why would they have designed in the cross-tyne links that are hidden by the bubble, but not where the Gateshead and Newcastle bubbles should have been.

That means it was definitely, in my eyes, a conscious effort to add confusion to the map

(02 Aug 2021, 10:22 am)JP6004 wrote Again isn't this highlighting the cross tyne £1.50 fare.

No it's not. Travelling between Newcastle and Gateshead is a "short-hop" fare at the most. This just happens to be one which is clearly defined.

---

(02 Aug 2021, 10:28 am)streetdeckfan wrote So I decided to do a cheeky edit to show what it should look like, and it's quite obvious that it was initially designed to have two distinct bubbles for Gateshead and Newcastle, otherwise why would they have designed in the cross-tyne links that are hidden by the bubble, but not where the Gateshead and Newcastle bubbles should have been.

That means it was definitely, in my eyes, a conscious effort to add confusion to the map

That's a lot clearer to understand and, in reality, Newcastle doesn't actually need to be in a bubble at all.

(02 Aug 2021, 10:03 am)Adrian wrote The Metro map clearly shows what the zones are: https://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/f...2018_0.pdf

The Gateshead Borough ticket map doesn't: https://images-gonortheast.passenger-web...eshead.pdf

I suppose this is the downside to creating a map that's geographically correct (something which everyone was in favour of, until analysing it in much closer detail).

(02 Aug 2021, 10:28 am)streetdeckfan wrote That means it was definitely, in my eyes, a conscious effort to add confusion to the map

Don't be silly...

It's sad that there's been more discussion about a minor cosmetic issue on the map, than the actual campaign itself. I didn't think I'd see the day where Andreos1 had the most positive comments in the thread!

(02 Aug 2021, 1:59 pm)Dan wrote I suppose this is the downside to creating a map that's geographically correct (something which everyone was in favour of, until analysing it in much closer detail).



Don't be silly...

It's sad that there's been more discussion about a minor cosmetic issue on the map, than the actual campaign itself. I didn't think I'd see the day where Andreos1 had the most positive comments in the thread!

What else was there to discuss? Buses are cheaper. I don't think anyone had anything negative to say about the actual offer, just the marketing, and possibly a couple boundary disputes!

At least it's been fixed now, so where do I send my design consultancy invoice? 



Strangely, they've also moved the boundary into the middle of the Tyne rather than being on the Gateshead side

(02 Aug 2021, 2:25 pm)streetdeckfan wrote What else was there to discuss? Buses are cheaper. I don't think anyone had anything negative to say about the actual offer, just the marketing, and possibly a couple boundary disputes!

At least it's been fixed now, so where do I send my design consultancy invoice? 



Strangely, they've also moved the boundary into the middle of the Tyne rather than being on the Gateshead side

...in reality, Go North East asked the agency to modify the map before your comments were made, but they don't work as quickly as you do!

The boundary line is in the middle of the Tyne for ultimate clarity - it would get lost at Teams/Metrocentre otherwise - not very strange at all.

In fairness, it clearly wasn’t just this forum confused by the boundary and placement of Newcastle, judging by people raising comments on social media or friends and family questions. It’s a shame that the marketing materials weren’t amended before the offer went live/details published, obviously in an ideal world it would have been. Nice to see it’s now much clearer.