(31 Aug 2021, 11:30 am)omnicity4659 wrote Seeing as I live 35 miles away, I wasn't going to spaff money on fuel or Metro tickets to see if there's 12 or 26 buses there. As it's been mentioned earlier, promoting these events is vital for them to survive otherwise only the die-hard enthusiast who doesn't care about what turns up will attend - no way to run an event.

Replies to my comment on here were the first indication that there were more vehicles, followed by an owner of a bus messaging me saying he was en-route to the event. Too late for me to start my journey from up here!

Based on the footfall there yesterday, it didn't look like they need to be too worried about the event not surviving - it was very well attended.

(31 Aug 2021, 12:15 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Based on the footfall there yesterday, it didn't look like they need to be too worried about the event not surviving - it was very well attended.

It might be useful for the organisers to ascertain why people are attending?

Is it for the cars? The buses?  A bit of both?  Or because they just happen to be in the area?

A little bit of market research might uncover what the wider public (not just enthusiasts) expect from the event and allow the organisers to structure the event accordingly.

(31 Aug 2021, 12:32 pm)MurdnunoC wrote It might be useful for the organisers to ascertain why people are attending?

Is it for the cars? The buses?  A bit of both?  Or because they just happen to be in the area?

A little bit of market research might uncover what the wider public (not just enthusiasts) expect from the event and allow the organisers to structure the event accordingly.

Or they may be quite happy with how it is structured and not especially care why people are attending, just as long as they are doing so.  If it ain't broke and all that...

(31 Aug 2021, 4:12 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Or they may be quite happy with how it is structured and not especially care why people are attending, just as long as they are doing so.  If it ain't broke and all that...

Nothing wrong with a Nokia 3210 either but there's always room for improvement. Imagine if technology companies had the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude towards everything.

(31 Aug 2021, 4:12 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Or they may be quite happy with how it is structured and not especially care why people are attending, just as long as they are doing so.  If it ain't broke and all that...

Imagine if the first Industrial Revolution didn't happen, all because people around at the time decided "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"... 

I think its a valid suggestion to gauge feedback from an event. It's a proactive exercise that most organisations do as a matter of course, and doesn't have to be done done as a negative reaction. At least then you could determine whether the balance is correct, e.g. are more people attending for cars or are more people attending for buses, could there have been something done differently, what did you like most about the event and so on. Simple stuff really and doesn't cost much.

(31 Aug 2021, 4:23 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Nothing wrong with a Nokia 3210 either but there's always room for improvement. Imagine if technology companies had the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude towards everything.

(31 Aug 2021, 4:27 pm)Adrian wrote Imagine if the first Industrial Revolution didn't happen, all because people around at the time decided "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"... 

I think its a valid suggestion to gauge feedback from an event. It's a proactive exercise that most organisations do as a matter of course, and doesn't have to be done done as a negative reaction. At least then you could determine whether the balance is correct, e.g. are more people attending for cars or are more people attending for buses, could there have been something done differently, what did you like most about the event and so on. Simple stuff really and doesn't cost much.

Could be wrong but I dont think the industrial revolution (or Nokia 3310 development) coincided with a pandemic, when there were probably quite a lot of logistical challenges to overcome just to make the events happen.  It's a real shame there's such negativity toward NEBPT on here - personally I think hats off to them for organinsing the rallies they have done in unprecedented times. Regardless, I'm not sure what you would want them to do with knowing e.g. some people like the buses, some people like the cars and quite a lot of people like a bit of both... would you change it to ban buses if most people said they liked the cars more?

(31 Aug 2021, 8:39 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Could be wrong but I dont think the industrial revolution (or Nokia 3310 development) coincided with a pandemic, when there were probably quite a lot of logistical challenges to overcome just to make the events happen.  It's a real shame there's such negativity toward NEBPT on here - personally I think hats off to them for organinsing the rallies they have done in unprecedented times. Regardless, I'm not sure what you would want them to do with knowing e.g. some people like the buses, some people like the cars and quite a lot of people like a bit of both... would you change it to ban buses if most people said they liked the cars more?

There's no negativity from me, but this is a discussion forum and we should be able to constructively discuss anything in the scene. It's a shame that this is always deemed as being negative or 'anti' whatever, when its simply not the case.

Banning buses is just silly. Why would you jump straight to that, from a suggestion that NEBPT should proactively seek feedback? To answer the point though, if the overwhelming feedback was that people turn up for cars, then it would be silly to ignore that and not try and grow the amount of classic cars attending. If people said the same about buses, then likewise; reach out further afield and try and attract some of the Yorkshire groups for example. People might even tell you that they're disappointed GNE and Arriva didn't attend, so attention could be focussed in working with those operators attending. It doesn't have to be about banning anything - there was still a LOT of space unused in the park, and it's daft to dismiss any discussion in trying to make use of that.

(31 Aug 2021, 9:22 pm)Adrian wrote There's no negativity from me, but this is a discussion forum and we should be able to constructively discuss anything in the scene. It's a shame that this is always deemed as being negative or 'anti' whatever, when its simply not the case.

Banning buses is just silly. Why would you jump straight to that, from a suggestion that NEBPT should proactively seek feedback? To answer the point though, if the overwhelming feedback was that people turn up for cars, then it would be silly to ignore that and not try and grow the amount of classic cars attending. If people said the same about buses, then likewise; reach out further afield and try and attract some of the Yorkshire groups for example. People might even tell you that they're disappointed GNE and Arriva didn't attend, so attention could be focussed in working with those operators attending. It doesn't have to be about banning anything - there was still a LOT of space unused in the park, and it's daft to dismiss any discussion in trying to make use of that.

Not sure why you need feedback (which you could predict from the outset along the lines I suggested) to know seeking to fill the field up a bit more would be a good thing.  As you say there was a decent amount of unused space so why not try to attract more cars AND buses (and fire engines etc).  I am sure the organisers did try to fill it but suspect there will have been all kinds of impacts (weather, pandemic, shortish notice) but knowing people would like more buses, cars, boats and fire engines wouldn't make them any more likely to appear.  My original point however was more around the fact the rally seemed to be a great success in terms of footfall and general public response and its survival did not appear to be at risk as was suggested...

(31 Aug 2021, 8:39 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Could be wrong but I dont think the industrial revolution (or Nokia 3310 development) coincided with a pandemic, when there were probably quite a lot of logistical challenges to overcome just to make the events happen. 

That's not how you argued the point before where you decided to opt for a more simplistic "if it's not broke, don't fix it" narrative to dismiss why the organisers of this rally shouldn't attempt to progress this (and other rallies) into a bigger event, which in turn, might generate more footfall and revenue.

(31 Aug 2021, 8:39 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote It's a real shame there's such negativity toward NEBPT on here - personally I think hats off to them for organinsing the rallies they have done in unprecedented times. Regardless, I'm not sure what you would want them to do with knowing e.g. some people like the buses, some people like the cars and quite a lot of people like a bit of both... would you change it to ban buses if most people said they liked the cars more?

I wouldn't say it was negativity but more an attempt of constructive criticism. People have attended rallies elsewhere in the country (myself included) and have noticed a huge difference between how they are organised. Personally, I think you should attempt to grow an event year-upon-year and attempt to attract more people from further afield to make it a more special occasion - and I think that is achievable with Seaburn because of the date and location - but perhaps I'm in the minority, I don't know.

If the organisers of the event, and I'm aware it's not just the NEBPT who are involved in Seaburn, wanted to be ambitious and grow the event, a little bit of market-research helps to shine a light on what the public actually want. If more people wanted cars over buses; or buses over cars; or more things for kids to do; research can help inform the organisers on how to make the event more inclusive for the following year. It does not mean that buses or cars should be excluded from the event, however if there is a preference for one over the other, organisers can cater towards that demand, engage with more enthusiast groups over the interim period to increase the amount of entrants, and perhaps devote more space on the field to whichever one generates more interest.

There is room for improvement.

(31 Aug 2021, 10:01 pm)MurdnunoC wrote That's not how you argued the point before where you decided to opt for a more simplistic "if it's not broke, don't fix it" narrative to dismiss why the organisers of this rally shouldn't attempt to progress this (and other rallies) into a bigger event, which in turn, might generate more footfall and revenue.

Correct. Because noone had mentioned the industrial revolution or Nokias at that point.

(31 Aug 2021, 10:05 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Correct. Because noone had mentioned the industrial revolution or Nokias at that point.

In a similar vein to how you had never mentioned a pandemic at that point.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" was your response to my suggestion that the organisers of the event might want to conduct a little bit of market-research to improve the event.

We have to give them props especially for the Metrocentre rally. Was talking to one of the staff members at Whitley Bay and he said it took quite a bit of talking with the new people who own the Metrocentre to have the event there

I just hope this isn't an issue for next year's event there as there was back in 2017 where it was moved out of the Metrocentre

Granted we have to give them a thanks. The North East has what a total of 7 rallys

5 by the nebpt (Metrocentre, Durham, Whitley Bay, Bishop Auckland & Seaburn)

1 by the 500 group at Middlesbrough & 1 by the Aycliffe at Shildon

More of the events are the Festival of Transport which if I remember correctly was now gonna be held by the Northern National Restoration Group somewhere in Durham

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Plus you have to remember the fact Go North East Stagecoach and Arriva are not allowed to bring a ton of buses due to complain of to "newer" vehicles

(31 Aug 2021, 9:57 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Not sure why you need feedback (which you could predict from the outset along the lines I suggested) to know seeking to fill the field up a bit more would be a good thing.  As you say there was a decent amount of unused space so why not try to attract more cars AND buses (and fire engines etc).  I am sure the organisers did try to fill it but suspect there will have been all kinds of impacts (weather, pandemic, shortish notice) but knowing people would like more buses, cars, boats and fire engines wouldn't make them any more likely to appear.  My original point however was more around the fact the rally seemed to be a great success in terms of footfall and general public response and its survival did not appear to be at risk as was suggested...

The field is usually very full - even at the event in 2019 with all if 3 buses, it was full. I think we can only blame the fact that a lot of people are either cautious or unable to attend for the empty space.

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And I will pick up on the number of rallies, too. Yes there are bigger rallies in other parts of the country that people feel it worth travelling to. In the space of 10(?) weeks, I have attended 5, all within 20 miles of my home. I've not even attended steam fairs which are attended by lots of vintage vehicles, which have also taken place nearby.

Where the bigger, better publicised events take place, are they one of many or are they pretty unique within their locality?

(31 Aug 2021, 9:57 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Not sure why you need feedback (which you could predict from the outset along the lines I suggested) to know seeking to fill the field up a bit more would be a good thing.  As you say there was a decent amount of unused space so why not try to attract more cars AND buses (and fire engines etc).  I am sure the organisers did try to fill it but suspect there will have been all kinds of impacts (weather, pandemic, shortish notice) but knowing people would like more buses, cars, boats and fire engines wouldn't make them any more likely to appear.  My original point however was more around the fact the rally seemed to be a great success in terms of footfall and general public response and its survival did not appear to be at risk as was suggested...

As someone who works in market research, hopefully I can enlighten you a bit. It's all well and good knowing that the field needs filled up more, I think any dimwit could work that out.
What gathering and analysing the feedback would tell you is WHY the field needs filling, and HOW to do it.

Why was the field empty in the first place? Was it because:

1. people didn't know about the event - if so, maybe there needs to be more time spent advertising next time
   
2. people couldn't make it to the event - if so, maybe there needs to be more engagement in the planning stages next time
   
3. the location wasn't accessible - if so, maybe they need to think about holding it in a different venue
   
4. fears around the pandemic - if so, maybe they should consider publicising their safety protocols, risk assessments etc. more to try and alleviate some of the fears
   

I do, in some ways, disagree with what Adrian suggested. Whilst if the overwhelming feedback was that people are more interested in cars, it would be wise to try and increase the number of car, it would also be wise to try and find out WHY that is.

Was it due to a lack of publicity in the bus enthusiast community, but a lot of publicity in the classic car community? That would result in a bias towards car enthusiasts, giving the impression that people aren't interested in the buses, meaning next time less buses are likely to turn up? (and the cycle continues)
A simple questionnaire asking 'where did you hear about this event' would probably answer that question.

If, for example, 69% of respondents indicated that they found out about the event from the 'North East Cars' forum, but only 4.20% of respondents indicated that they found out about it from the 'North East Buses' forum, then I would be inclined to suggest rather than doubling down on the car enthusiasts, try and increase publicity with 'North East Buses' next time.

There are numerous other bits of very useful insight that can be gathered from a very simple survey, and it's not just looking at each question independently, but also comparing responses to different questions.

Believe it or not, the reason the demographics questions (age, gender etc.) are on surveys isn't because they actually want to know how old you are, it's to compare responses from different demographics. If they do a comparison on 'Age' to 'What type of vehicle are you interested in', they may find out that 69% of people that indicated an interest in buses are aged 16-24. And, as has been discussed earlier, people of that age group may be more interested in modern buses than classic buses, so from that comparison it could be concluded that there needs to be more representation of modern buses at the event, and therefore more engagement with operators such as GNE or Arriva.
Likewise, if more people of the same age group also indicated an interest in cars, maybe they need to get more Supras and less Rover 75s!

I know I'm a bit biased here, but it's also important to have the responses analysed by an independent organisation (or at least someone not involved in the day to day running) because aside from removing any bias towards any particular outcome, it also allows the analysis to be much more critical, which is what most of our clients find to be most insightful.

Anyway, this ended up being longer than I expected, and I went a tad off topic...

(01 Sep 2021, 10:15 pm)BusLoverMum wrote The field is usually very full - even at the event in 2019 with all if 3 buses, it was full. I think we can only blame the fact that a lot of people are either cautious or unable to attend for the empty space.

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And I will pick up on the number of rallies, too. Yes there are bigger rallies in other parts of the country that people feel it worth travelling to. In the space of 10(?) weeks, I have attended 5, all within 20 miles of my home. I've not even attended steam fairs which are attended by lots of vintage vehicles, which have also taken place nearby.

Where the bigger, better publicised events take place, are they one of many or are they pretty unique within their locality?

That's a fair point. The bigger rallies might be well advertised and attended but there are probably smaller ones which don't do so well in comparison.

For me it's not necessarily the number of rallies that's the problem but rather the amount of rallies organised by one particular group. As mentioned, there are seven rallies in total in the region: one is organised by the 500 Group; one is organised the Aycliffe Preservation Group; and five by the NEBPT (either wholly or partially). I haven't attended the Shildon one organised by the Aycliffe group so I can't really comment on that, however the 500 Group Teesside Running Day is, by leaps and bounds, the one that comes across as more organised which results in a more enjoyable experience - at least for me anyway. Not sure whether the 500 Group hold supplementary rallies elsewhere around the Teesside/Cleveland/North Yorkshire area (I'm sure Kuyoyo will correct me if they do), but I presume the reason why the Teesside Running Day delivers is because the organisers have a year to plan timetables, organise volunteers, liaise with preservationists, prepare programmes and whatever else needs doing. In comparison, rallies organised by NEBPT come across as being cobbled together at the last minute. Now I'm sure this is probably not the case, but it's the impression some people (myself included) are left with. Reducing the amount of rallies by three, leaving only Metrocentre and Seaburn, would reduce the workload and allow for more preparation and planning to make the two remaining events more special.

The fact is certain rallys get a change and it makes the rally smaller

Whitley Bay moved onto the links and the amount of buses turned up were cut in half. Your lucky to get more than 10

Durham changed so they can park them better so tbh I think Durham is better than before

Metrocentre has always been a decent size for some time but there's the off season where its smaller

Seaburn it mainly depends what buses are free on the day
Plus Seaburn isn't really a bus rally. It says it in the name
Historic Vehicle Display

Aycliffe Shildon Rally is really small but they don't advertise it much

500 group is only massively because a lot more people know about it and the 500 group advertise it more than the nebpt do (in my opinion)

(02 Sep 2021, 9:39 am)MurdnunoC wrote however the 500 Group Teesside Running Day is, by leaps and bounds, the one that comes across as more organised which results in a more enjoyable experience - at least for me anyway. Not sure whether the 500 Group hold supplementary rallies elsewhere around the Teesside/Cleveland/North Yorkshire area (I'm sure Kuyoyo will correct me if they do), but I presume the reason why the Teesside Running Day delivers is because the organisers have a year to plan timetables, organise volunteers, liaise with preservationists, prepare programmes and whatever else needs doing.

Indeed, the 500 Group only organised the Running Day most years (in the last 10 years, we have additionally been involved with the 2 Open Days at Stagecoach's Stockton depot, plus the Trollybus event at Kirkleatham Hall in 2019) therefore as one year's event ends, the planning for the following year's begins once the committee has debriefed on that year's event. Indeed, there's been times where entrants have been pencilled in for the following year during the event.
The progrmmes however are usually one of the last things done within the week leading up to the event. Volunteers are usually sourced during the 4 months from New Year to the day of the event.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:04 am)Train8261 wrote The fact is certain rallys get a change and it makes the rally smaller

Whitley Bay moved onto the links and the amount of buses turned up were cut in half. Your lucky to get more than 10

Then is that not a good enough reason to pull the plug on that rally? Would it not be better to reassign whatever resources required to organise this event over to Seaburn, which I believe is the next one in the calendar?

(02 Sep 2021, 10:04 am)Train8261 wrote Aycliffe Shildon Rally is really small but they don't advertise it much

Again, never been to this one so I'll have to take your word on size and attendance, but isn't this one held a week after the Bishop Auckland rally? Wouldn't it be better for NEBPT to collaborate with the Aycliffe and District Bus Preservation Society and Locomotion to pool resources and to share the burden of organisation? I mean, there may be some weird politics involved between the two groups preventing this, but it seems like a no brainer to me.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:04 am)Train8261 wrote 500 group is only massively because a lot more people know about it and the 500 group advertise it more than the nebpt do (in my opinion)

Does that not suggest that the 500 Group is doing something right? Kuyoyo has provided a little bit of insight into the planning of its, mostly annual (barring pandemics), Teesside Running Day so isn't that something a preservation group should aspire towards?

(02 Sep 2021, 10:04 am)Train8261 wrote The fact is certain rallys get a change and it makes the rally smaller

Whitley Bay moved onto the links and the amount of buses turned up were cut in half. Your lucky to get more than 10

Durham changed so they can park them better so tbh I think Durham is better than before

Metrocentre has always been a decent size for some time but there's the off season where its smaller

Seaburn it mainly depends what buses are free on the day
Plus Seaburn isn't really a bus rally. It says it in the name
Historic Vehicle Display

Aycliffe Shildon Rally is really small but they don't advertise it much

500 group is only massively because a lot more people know about it and the 500 group advertise it more than the nebpt do (in my opinion)

I'll point out that regarding Whitley Bay, the council forced the change and then banned busses from being on the grass. Given the covid situation what there was was fine, bar 6101 which passes there everyday so GNE could have been a bit more imaginative..

All I can say is, I have enjoyed all the local rallies this year bearing in mind the dreadful 18 months we have all suffered. The people who entered vehicles have done well to get their vehicles to the rallies and the organisers have probably had a lot more rules to observe compared to previously.