(07 Sep 2021, 3:36 pm)deanmachine wrote It's not magically going to go away the staff shortage unfortunately. I don't think there's enough going through the driving school at the minute either.

Indeed, and I’ve heard today that the level of disruption at Go North East is minuscule compared to Arriva Durham. Just puts into perspective the differing levels of customer communications.


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(07 Sep 2021, 4:09 pm)Dan wrote Indeed, and I’ve heard today that the level of disruption at Go North East is minuscule compared to Arriva Durham. Just puts into perspective the differing levels of customer communications.


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To be honest, I'd take Arriva's 'communication' over GNE's any day, since cancelled services are actually reported in the app I don't have to load Twitter, find GNE's account and scroll in hopes I can find something about the service I'm waiting for. 
I can simply load the Arriva app (this assumes it actually works lol), and it will tell me if the bus is running on time, if not, how late it's going to be, or if it's cancelled altogether.
With GNE I usually just get that the bus is due in 5 minutes for a while, then it just drops off the app!

GNE's new app is genuinely terrible to use when tracking buses, I actually continued to use the old app until it stopped working!

(07 Sep 2021, 4:09 pm)Dan wrote Indeed, and I’ve heard today that the level of disruption at Go North East is minuscule compared to Arriva Durham. Just puts into perspective the differing levels of customer communications.


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Assuming the passengers use social media, then yes, I would agree.
If not, then not at all.
The 'transparency' for those people without social media won't have a clue and there's absolutely no transparency as far as they're concerned.

(07 Sep 2021, 7:18 pm)Andreos1 wrote Assuming the passengers use social media, then yes, I would agree.
If not, then not at all.
The 'transparency' for those people without social media won't have a clue and there's absolutely no transparency as far as they're concerned.

Totally agree.
I don't know about you, but even as a Twitter addict when I'm standing at a bus stop and the bus is late, the first thing I do isn't go to Twitter and search GNE's recent Tweets to see if they happened to have mentioned the service I'm waiting for, it's check the app, because I probably already had it open to either check the times or have my ticket.

Unfortunately, for those without a smartphone there's very little that GNE can do. I don't know how the backend works, but they could potentially try and get DCC and Nexus to update the displays at bus stations with live info (I doubt that would be possible).
I do like the idea of the E-ink displays they're trialling, but like everything else in the industry, those companies rolling it out are no doubt charing way over the odds for what is a very simple product, so I can't personally see it being rolled out to all bus stops, or even those in 'key' areas to be honest.

(07 Sep 2021, 7:32 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Totally agree.
I don't know about you, but even as a Twitter addict when I'm standing at a bus stop and the bus is late, the first thing I do isn't go to Twitter and search GNE's recent Tweets to see if they happened to have mentioned the service I'm waiting for, it's check the app, because I probably already had it open to either check the times or have my ticket.

Even if folk did check their Twitter feed, they pump out so many Tweets that it's likely people would either skip it or get sick of looking. The Tweets are also huge, with the integrated picture for the app link, one Tweet takes up my entire feed on my laptop screen for example! Since 19:00, there have been 19 service updates, all bar one includes an app link. Do folk need reminded that often, surely just pin it?

I always find myself checking bustimes to see if my bus is delayed - at least it gives me an actual timetable that I can look at alongside where the bus is, and shows me if the bus has stopped somewhere. The only bus app I've found useful was the old Arriva one, the new one is too buggy for anything but m-tickets for me - though you've mentioned it still retaining the bus cancelled/actual delay update features which was always the key.

(07 Sep 2021, 7:32 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Totally agree.
I don't know about you, but even as a Twitter addict when I'm standing at a bus stop and the bus is late, the first thing I do isn't go to Twitter and search GNE's recent Tweets to see if they happened to have mentioned the service I'm waiting for, it's check the app, because I probably already had it open to either check the times or have my ticket.

Unfortunately, for those without a smartphone there's very little that GNE can do. I don't know how the backend works, but they could potentially try and get DCC and Nexus to update the displays at bus stations with live info (I doubt that would be possible).
I do like the idea of the E-ink displays they're trialling, but like everything else in the industry, those companies rolling it out are no doubt charing way over the odds for what is a very simple product, so I can't personally see it being rolled out to all bus stops, or even those in 'key' areas to be honest.

I've suggested push messages in the past.
Simple and effective and assuming someone has signed up for an update, pretty straightforward (I'd assume).
Im sure Nexus had some Nfc functions on their stops at one point. No idea if they're still active or not.

However, it all boils down to communication and ensuring users (regardless of any mitigating factors) have the information and can get it easily.

I reckon it would have been 7 or 8 years ago, but I was doing some work in rural Lincolnshire. Decided to do some gricing and used the train and bus for my trip.
Due to the nature of the road network down there, one closure means huge diversions and on this particular trip, a stretch of road from Woodhall Spa was completely shut for resurfacing.
Lincs Council had sorted out a shuttle to take passengers to Tattershall, to connect with the diverted IC service between Boston and Lincoln.
I was heading towards Tattershall on the shuttle and on approaching each stop, the driver would check with punters heading in the opposite direction, to ensure they knew the road further up was closed and to inform them of the diversion.
I'm not saying that GNE or whoever else need to instruct their drivers and get them to let every single punter waiting that there are delays - but I was very impressed with the customer service and dedication on offer in that particular case.

(07 Sep 2021, 7:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote However, it all boils down to communication and ensuring users (regardless of any mitigating factors) have the information and can get it easily.

The best examples I've had of this are at Haymarket where the (I assume Jesmond based) Arriva supervisor has informed passengers of delays, cancellations, or alternative plans (e.g an X15 has been spun at Regent Centre and will wait there, get on the next X21/22 and the X15 will be expecting you). Far more direct than a post on Twitter and having to figure it out yourself, and also more accessible. Granted though, only possible at major bus stations where staffing allows.

(07 Sep 2021, 7:51 pm)mb134 wrote The best examples I've had of this are at Haymarket where the (I assume Jesmond based) Arriva supervisor has informed passengers of delays, cancellations, or alternative plans (e.g an X15 has been spun at Regent Centre and will wait there, get on the next X21/22 and the X15 will be expecting you). Far more direct than a post on Twitter and having to figure it out yourself, and also more accessible. Granted though, only possible at major bus stations where staffing allows.

Ownership and responsibility isn't it?
That's all passengers are asking for - rather than a 'we are transparent and share stuff on social media'.

(07 Sep 2021, 7:51 pm)mb134 wrote The best examples I've had of this are at Haymarket where the (I assume Jesmond based) Arriva supervisor has informed passengers of delays, cancellations, or alternative plans (e.g an X15 has been spun at Regent Centre and will wait there, get on the next X21/22 and the X15 will be expecting you). Far more direct than a post on Twitter and having to figure it out yourself, and also more accessible. Granted though, only possible at major bus stations where staffing allows.

Indeed, and Go North East have bus station supervisors across the network doing this too - but they don’t work 24/7, much as I suspect Arriva’s don’t either.


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(07 Sep 2021, 7:41 pm)mb134 wrote Even if folk did check their Twitter feed, they pump out so many Tweets that it's likely people would either skip it or get sick of looking. The Tweets are also huge, with the integrated picture for the app link, one Tweet takes up my entire feed on my laptop screen for example! Since 19:00, there have been 19 service updates, all bar one includes an app link. Do folk need reminded that often, surely just pin it?

I always find myself checking bustimes to see if my bus is delayed - at least it gives me an actual timetable that I can look at alongside where the bus is, and shows me if the bus has stopped somewhere. The only bus app I've found useful was the old Arriva one, the new one is too buggy for anything but m-tickets for me - though you've mentioned it still retaining the bus cancelled/actual delay update features which was always the key.

Yeah, the new Arriva app is fairly buggy, but for me closing it and reopening it usually solves the problem. At least the M-tickets seem to work even if the app is borked.

(07 Sep 2021, 7:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote I've suggested push messages in the past.
Simple and effective and assuming someone has signed up for an update, pretty straightforward (I'd assume).
Im sure Nexus had some Nfc functions on their stops at one point. No idea if they're still active or not.

However, it all boils down to communication and ensuring users (regardless of any mitigating factors) have the information and can get it easily.

I like the idea of push notifications, but I think that would be fairly difficult to implement without irritating people. I think obviously it would have to require people to 'subscribe' to notificaitons for a particular route, but would I have to set it up in the morning before I leave, deactivate it once I get to wherever to stop me getting notified throughout the day when I'm probably busy, then reactivate it before I leave?

I think a better, simpler option would be to basically copy what Arriva does, and just show on the live times if a bus is delayed or cancelled, rather than just updating the time and pretending it's running to timetable, or just removing the service and pretending it doesn't exist!

You're right, NEXUS did (and I believe still does) have NFC tags at stops, but last time I tried they didn't work at all. They didn't even direct me to a dead link, they literally did nothing.

(07 Sep 2021, 7:57 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Yeah, the new Arriva app is fairly buggy, but for me closing it and reopening it usually solves the problem. At least the M-tickets seem to work even if the app is borked.



I like the idea of push notifications, but I think that would be fairly difficult to implement without irritating people. I think obviously it would have to require people to 'subscribe' to notificaitons for a particular route, but would I have to set it up in the morning before I leave, deactivate it once I get to wherever to stop me getting notified throughout the day when I'm probably busy, then reactivate it before I leave?

 I think a better, simpler option would be to basically copy what Arriva does, and just show on the live times if a bus is delayed or cancelled, rather than just updating the time and pretending it's running to timetable, or just removing the service and pretending it doesn't exist! 

You're right, NEXUS did (and I believe still does) have NFC tags at stops, but last time I tried they didn't work at all. They didn't even direct me to a dead link, they literally did nothing.

I reckon those push messages could easily have a time-out function, which then restricts how long the notifications were sent.

Bib: assuming punters have the app or the phone to do so, then yes. I agree.

(07 Sep 2021, 8:00 pm)Andreos1 wrote I reckon those push messages could easily have a time-out function, which then restricts how long the notifications were sent.

You'd like to think they'd be able to code it so that the notifications could be set up something like:

- Notify if service "X" is delayed by more than "x" minutes/cancelled between 07:00 and 09:00, and 16:00 and 18:00 (changable via the end user to their commuting times).

While we're on the subject of the GNE app, here's the biggest thing that I really hate about the app.
If I'm on a bus, how the f do I find out what time that bus gets to it's destination?

On the old app I could simply tap on the bus on the map and it would tell me what the service is and show the live times for it. Now, if I tap on the bus it just tells me that the bus is quiet and it has tables and WiFi!
Am I expected to find the next stop on the map, tap that, tap the bus that I'm on and then see what time it gets to my destination, or am I just missing something?

(07 Sep 2021, 7:18 pm)Andreos1 wrote Assuming the passengers use social media, then yes, I would agree.
If not, then not at all.
The 'transparency' for those people without social media won't have a clue and there's absolutely no transparency as far as they're concerned.

It's an age old problem. One I'd have hoped would have been resolved by now.

Arguably operators have improved the situation by using social media, or publishing cancellations in the app like Arriva (as Streetdeckfan pointed out), but as I mentioned in another thread, its important that communication is accessible to all.

One of the best schemes I've seen in action (outside of London) is the RTPI system in Brighton. Where there's real partnership between the operators and local authority, working in the best interests of the customers. That being said, I'd say Brighton are a forward thinking authority, whereas it often feels that Nexus are waiting for the computer to be invented. Their own RTPI screens, which are dated and limited, hadn't even been updated for Sunday's service changes.

There's plenty operators can do, like ensuring their own app reports disruption, customisable push notifications or even ensuring their customer service are available outside of the 70s concept of 'office hours', but ultimately they're not responsible for putting infrastructure on the streets.

(07 Sep 2021, 7:51 pm)mb134 wrote The best examples I've had of this are at Haymarket where the (I assume Jesmond based) Arriva supervisor has informed passengers of delays, cancellations, or alternative plans (e.g an X15 has been spun at Regent Centre and will wait there, get on the next X21/22 and the X15 will be expecting you). Far more direct than a post on Twitter and having to figure it out yourself, and also more accessible. Granted though, only possible at major bus stations where staffing allows.

Do Arriva still have a supervisor at Haymarket, out of interest? I haven't seen anyone when I've been in there lately, which is much the same as any other Tyne and Wear bus station. Although the guy that's normally at the Metrocentre was in the last time I was there.

Face to face communication on disruption is obviously great, and I'd say a must at any bus station, but sadly Nexus decided to axe the last 6 Travel Shops during a pandemic. I think that means we don't have a single travel shop left in the region.

(07 Sep 2021, 8:14 pm)streetdeckfan wrote While we're on the subject of the GNE app, here's the biggest thing that I really hate about the app.
If I'm on a bus, how the f do I find out what time that bus gets to it's destination?

On the old app I could simply tap on the bus on the map and it would tell me what the service is and show the live times for it. Now, if I tap on the bus it just tells me that the bus is quiet and it has tables and WiFi!
Am I expected to find the next stop on the map, tap that, tap the bus that I'm on and then see what time it gets to my destination, or am I just missing something?

Yep, whereas on bustimes you just find the bus on the map and the timetable is a click away.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, a third party website in Bustimes shouldn't provide substantially better access to information than the operators app.

---

(07 Sep 2021, 8:17 pm)Adrian wrote Do Arriva still have a supervisor at Haymarket, out of interest? I haven't seen anyone when I've been in there lately, which is much the same as any other Tyne and Wear bus station. Although the guy that's normally at the Metrocentre was in the last time I was there.

I saw people being redirected the other week while I was there (in a similar situation to the previous post), and one popped onto the bus to assist the driver into reverse around the same time, so I would assume so.

Think they may stay in the office until there is disruption they need to communicate, as everytime I've seen them they seem to emerge from nowhere to suddenly be telling folk how to get where they need to be.

(07 Sep 2021, 8:19 pm)mb134 wrote Yep, whereas on bustimes you just find the bus on the map and the timetable is a click away.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, a third party website in Bustimes shouldn't provide substantially better access to information than the operators app.

I thought as much, I thought I was missing something obvious!

I remember a couple apps ago they had a great feature where it would automatically work out (presumably by GPS) which bus you're on and give you the live info.

Jesus my Twitter feed appears to be have taken over by GNE and their one hundred and one operational issues. They don’t seem to be having a good time.

(07 Sep 2021, 7:57 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Yeah, the new Arriva app is fairly buggy, but for me closing it and reopening it usually solves the problem. At least the M-tickets seem to work even if the app is borked.

Having reset some permissions and cleared the cache, it's actually far better than I remember it being - and closer to the old one (though not displaying every bus, I guess this helps with data use?). I can only assume it's had a few major updates since the last time I tried to actually use it for anything more than a ticket.

(07 Sep 2021, 8:22 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Jesus my Twitter feed appears to be have taken over by GNE and their one hundred and one operational issues. They don’t seem to be having a good time.

They tweeting any earlier than 5mins before the bus is due?
Actually. Scrub that. https://twitter.com/gonortheast/status/1...09704?s=19 this one went out after it was due to depart.

Great Western Railway posted a news story a few weeks back when they had a problem on a specific Sunday with a mixture of stock and driver availability. The page listed every service which WASN'T covered in the days leading up to the Sunday and it was updated periodically over the the preceding days when trips were covered.

I wonder if GNE (or other operators for that matter) could do something similar as a "cards on the table" given the current Covid related difficulties.

At least customers would know there is a potential problem instead of not knowing until a few minutes before while controllers desperately try to get trips covered.

(07 Sep 2021, 9:07 pm)DeltaMan wrote Great Western Railway posted a news story a few weeks back when they had a problem on a specific  Sunday with a mixture of stock and driver availability. The page listed every service which WASN'T covered in the days leading up to the Sunday and it was updated periodically over the the preceding days when trips were covered.

I wonder if GNE (or other operators for that matter) could do something similar as a "cards on the table" given the current Covid related difficulties.

At least customers would know there is a potential problem instead of not knowing until a few minutes before while controllers desperately try to get trips covered.

Covid difficulties ? This is Brexit in action. EU bus drivers have gone home.

Least the info being given now is better than it was 15 years ago or even about 5 years ago. Especially when it came to Megabus, you didn't know if your bus was going to show up or not, and your anxiety got worse when the departure time passed. These days you can track the vehicles and give yourself peace of mind, well providing the thing on the bus talks to the equipment gathering the location data.

These disruptions seem to be affecting Consett depot in particular.

Noticed that both the 20:42 and 21:42 78s from Consett to Sunderland have been cancelled which is effectively the last 2 buses gone leaving people stranded since 8pm. It’s likely their respective return journeys will be cancelled as well. Gotta feel rather sorry for those who have been waiting for a non existent bus or will be left stranded with no money for a taxi. So much for the £1 evening fare.

(07 Sep 2021, 7:32 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Totally agree.
I don't know about you, but even as a Twitter addict when I'm standing at a bus stop and the bus is late, the first thing I do isn't go to Twitter and search GNE's recent Tweets to see if they happened to have mentioned the service I'm waiting for, it's check the app, because I probably already had it open to either check the times or have my ticket.

Unfortunately, for those without a smartphone there's very little that GNE can do. I don't know how the backend works, but they could potentially try and get DCC and Nexus to update the displays at bus stations with live info (I doubt that would be possible).
I do like the idea of the E-ink displays they're trialling, but like everything else in the industry, those companies rolling it out are no doubt charing way over the odds for what is a very simple product, so I can't personally see it being rolled out to all bus stops, or even those in 'key' areas to be honest.

Im sure the times on the boards at Haymarket are live. The bus i waited for wast due at 1920 but the creen said 1925 and it arriverd at 1925 pulled straight out and drove like a nutter to get back on time!  Also arnt the ones on low fell live too?

(08 Sep 2021, 7:30 am)Rob44 wrote Im sure the times on the boards at Haymarket are live. The bus i waited for wast due at 1920 but the creen said 1925 and it arriverd at 1925 pulled straight out and drove like a nutter to get back on time!  Also arnt the ones on low fell live too?

Think it might only be the new style ones at Haymarket?
Certainly the orange LED ones weren't live on Sunday, telling me that a now withdrawn 83 was due

(07 Sep 2021, 9:16 pm)Adtrainsam wrote These disruptions seem to be affecting Consett depot in particular.

Noticed that both the 20:42 and 21:42 78s from Consett to Sunderland have been cancelled which is effectively the last 2 buses gone leaving people stranded since 8pm. It’s likely their respective return journeys will be cancelled as well. Gotta feel rather sorry for those who have been waiting for a non existent bus or will be left stranded with no money for a taxi. So much for the £1 evening fare.

Just had a very angry call from a friend in High Spen and it looks like she can't get to work due to cancellations.
Two 47s in a row have been cancelled due to driver shortages and with the 10A running hourly she has no choice but to be an hour late to work

(08 Sep 2021, 8:11 am)Adrian wrote Think it might only be the new style ones at Haymarket?
Certainly the orange LED ones weren't live on Sunday, telling me that a now withdrawn 83 was due

They have been there for ages. The ones above the auto doors. Defiantly changed with the bus i was waiting for being late.

(08 Sep 2021, 8:27 am)streetdeckfan wrote Just had a very angry call from a friend in High Spen and it looks like she can't get to work due to cancellations. 

Do you cover the GNE customer service lines out of hours?

I am guessing the evening tweets are automated through HootSuite template hence the lateness of some? The template is bloody awful anyway and could do with a new tone of voice.

If they are written by humans then thats somehow worse...

(08 Sep 2021, 10:05 am)Ambassador wrote I am guessing the evening tweets are automated through HootSuite template hence the lateness of some? The template is bloody awful anyway and could do with a new tone of voice.

If they are written by humans then thats somehow worse...

Yep, bang on.