How has todays GNE services compared with the other operators today?

(08 Jan 2022, 9:49 pm)Bazza wrote How has todays GNE services compared with the other operators today?

Arriva Blyth ran pretty much a full service bar one board on the 308 by the looks of it and Arriva Jesmond the same bar a board on the 306. Doesn't seem to be any other cancellations in Northumbria (must admit based on Bustimes).

Can't comment on others.

(08 Jan 2022, 9:43 pm)Ambassador wrote I caught the 21 today relatively unaffected by the disruption…you’d think.

Waited 20 in Birtley and the first bus turned up full, someone flagged the trailing bus to the clear annoyance of the driver who quite possibly was the single  worst example,of customer service ever. I’d call him an utter areshole tbh. Loudly muttered under his breath, seemed put out he had to serve nufc fans, Missed stops, whinged at customers…utterly utterly appalling.


On the way back, no 21.06:from Newcastle, not  on the cancellation list. 42 mins for the next bus. Appalling service. I got an Uber.

Today told me…never rely on buses ever

The 21:06 from Newcastle did operate

If I'm not mistaken the 2105 Newcastle - CLS did run, 6317 doing the honours

(08 Jan 2022, 9:49 pm)Bazza wrote How has todays GNE services compared with the other operators today?

I had a look at Stagecoach South Shields earlier as their socials indicated missing trips on the high frequency town routes - based on bustimes there appeared to be between 3 and 10 journeys dropped on each over the course of the day.  Most were a single journey missed in an otherwise normal Saturday timetable (so markedly better offter than GNE) though there were a couple of examples of consecutive runs missed creating bigger 'holes' in the timetable. 

Hard to compare like for like with GNE, though I do tend to favour the Stagecoach approach of seeking to concentrate the disrupton to the higher frequency runs so the impact is less significant (10, 11, 12, X20, 30 all appeared to be unaffected).  A similar strategy seemed to be in place in Newcastle with higher frequency routes carrying the gaps as opposed to like likes of 18, 32, X78, X82 etc.  Of course it could be argued that the higher frequency routes are busier and one being missing more likely to cause overcrowding...though I've seen no mention on socials for Stagecoach or other operators the kind of clearly overcrowded buses reported with GNE today.

(08 Jan 2022, 9:54 pm)Storx wrote Arriva Blyth ran pretty much a full service bar one board on the 308 by the looks of it and Arriva Jesmond the same bar a board on the 306. Doesn't seem to be any other cancellations in Northumbria (must admit based on Bustimes).

Can't comment on others.

(08 Jan 2022, 10:52 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote I had a look at Stagecoach South Shields earlier as their socials indicated missing trips on the high frequency town routes - based on bustimes there appeared to be between 3 and 10 journeys dropped on each over the course of the day.  Most were a single journey missed in an otherwise normal Saturday timetable (so markedly better offter than GNE) though there were a couple of examples of consecutive runs missed creating bigger 'holes' in the timetable. 

Hard to compare like for like with GNE, though I do tend to favour the Stagecoach approach of seeking to concentrate the disrupton to the higher frequency runs so the impact is less significant (10, 11, 12, X20, 30 all appeared to be unaffected).  A similar strategy seemed to be in place in Newcastle with higher frequency routes carrying the gaps as opposed to like likes of 18, 32, X78, X82 etc.  Of course it could be argued that the higher frequency routes are busier and one being missing more likely to cause overcrowding...though I've seen no mention on socials for Stagecoach or other operators the kind of clearly overcrowded buses reported with GNE today.

So what is going wrong with GNE?  They certainly seem to have shot themselves in the foot over this.

(08 Jan 2022, 10:33 pm)NL62WVW wrote If I'm not mistaken the 2105 Newcastle - CLS did run, 6317 doing the honours

I stood from 8.55 to 21.16 and no bus appeared. I ended up sharing an Uber

It also didn’t appear on the app.

(09 Jan 2022, 1:22 am)Ambassador wrote I stood from 8.55 to 21.16 and no bus appeared. I ended up sharing an Uber

It also didn’t appear on the app.

As well as me seeing it, this confirms that it operated.

https://bustimes.org/services/21-durham-.../204028292

(08 Jan 2022, 9:09 pm)Jimmi wrote Weekends are the worst to get drivers in to work especially when short staffed especially as I think there's little to no incentive to work these days? 

Another thing that doesn't help covering services on weekends is sometimes other work being picked up, Rail Replacement's, Metro Replacement's, shuttle services for the likes of Kynryn and in the case of today, the St James' Park & Ride service from the Metrocentre which was promoted near enough on near the same level as the Sunday timetables were on their socials.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-d...01055-2020

When you've got managers making decisions like this, is there any wonder attrition and driver illness is so high?

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(08 Jan 2022, 9:43 pm)Ambassador wrote I caught the 21 today relatively unaffected by the disruption…you’d think.

Waited 20 in Birtley and the first bus turned up full, someone flagged the trailing bus to the clear annoyance of the driver who quite possibly was the single  worst example,of customer service ever. I’d call him an utter areshole tbh. Loudly muttered under his breath, seemed put out he had to serve nufc fans, Missed stops, whinged at customers…utterly utterly appalling.


On the way back, no 21.06:from Newcastle, not  on the cancellation list. 42 mins for the next bus. Appalling service. I got an Uber.

Today told me…never rely on buses ever 

I'm amazed it's taken so long!

(09 Jan 2022, 5:56 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-d...01055-2020

When you've got managers making decisions like this, is there any wonder attrition and driver illness is so high?

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Thanks for sharing that.  A depressing read but excellent outcome from the tribunal.  A useful reminder that unions are worse than useless these days, and not to expect reciprocal loyalty from some employers if you are no longer of immediate use to them. 

Para 82 sums it up for me… for very little benefit to the company they took illegal action which had devastating consequences for someone who had given them 20 years of service (while cooing to the public about their commitment to improving mental health!)  Sounds like the company were less than honest in the tribunal too (paras 27 & 85 in particular).  And this is how they treat someone who sounds like an outstanding driver with excellence awards etc…

(09 Jan 2022, 7:30 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Thanks for sharing that.  A depressing read but excellent outcome from the tribunal.  A useful reminder that unions are worse than useless these days, and not to expect reciprocal loyalty from some employers if you are no longer of immediate use to them. 

Para 82 sums it up for me… for very little benefit to the company they took illegal action which had devastating consequences for someone who had given them 20 years of service (while cooing to the public about their commitment to improving mental health!)  Sounds like the company were less than honest in the tribunal too (paras 27 & 85 in particular).  And this is how they treat someone who sounds like an outstanding driver with excellence awards etc…

This line is the one that gets me. Its in para 71.

Bearing in mind, how long it takes to train up bus drivers, the tribunal would have thought that the respondent would have wanted to retain him

When there's an ongoing recruitment campaign (that seems as regular as a DFS sale) and both prior to and since the judgement (and publication), you have the organisation going on about not having enough drivers...

This is just one recent example of poor management within the sector. 

There's many others in the public domain and there's many other stories which aren't.

The attitude shown is appalling imo and goes quite a way to explaining why there's such a turnover.
Absolutely no forsight whatsoever.

Kenny was one of the best and kindest drivers you could ever have the good fortune to meet, I believe he has retired now. The kind of decisions I witnessed during my 6 years at GNE are enough to make your blood boil.

(08 Jan 2022, 7:24 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Utterly irresponsible from GNE.  The stupidity in allowing overcrowding, which is only going to lead to higher case rates and so higher absences and more problems…it beggars belief.

The general situation of reckless overcrowding won’t have been helped by the operation of smaller vehicles on unaffected decker routes as well.  In the space of 5 mins in Gateshead this afternoon I noted a corporate Streetlite on 27 and an Orbit on the 93.  Oddly there’s also been an Orbit on a 6/12 board too.  Still a good number of breakdowns reported on social media, further cutting service levels.

GNE fb page (presumably autoposting) reporting more unplanned cancellations tomorrow – though the page it is linking to hasn’t been updated since Friday so shows nothing about tomorrow…

Just noticed this follow up from the customer tweet who complained about overcrowding on that X1.



In another tweet it's mentioned they'll be following up with the depot, but even worse if it's accurate that it was overcrowded at a supervisor's direction. 

(10 Jan 2022, 8:18 am)RM2186 wrote Kenny was one of the best and kindest drivers you could ever have the good fortune to meet, I believe he has retired now. The kind of decisions I witnessed during my 6 years at GNE are enough to make your blood boil.

Couldn't agree more. Someone who always has time for people and I remember from what feels like a lifetime ago, when I used to bus to college.

(10 Jan 2022, 4:39 pm)Adrian wrote Just noticed this follow up from the customer tweet who complained about overcrowding on that X1.



In another tweet it's mentioned they'll be following up with the depot, but even worse if it's accurate that it was overcrowded at a supervisor's direction. 


Couldn't agree more. Someone who always has time for people and I remember from what feels like a lifetime ago, when I used to bus to college.

At the end of the day the bus driver will have to be accounted for as it’s the driver who’s responsible if anything happens, the supervisor shouldn’t of allowed it, what happens if further up the road and vosa/police stopped the bus for checks, if I was the driver and the supervisor allowed standing upstairs then I wouldn’t of moved the bus, what happens if the bus turns a corner and everyone leans over and the bus tilts over and then injuries etc…, the driver will be accountable, the supervisor might get a small telling off but the driver would be charged if any deaths and sacked.


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(10 Jan 2022, 5:26 pm)cbma06 wrote At the end of the day the bus driver will have to be accounted for as it’s the driver who’s responsible if anything happens, the supervisor shouldn’t of allowed it, what happens if further up the road and vosa/police stopped the bus for checks, if I was the driver and the supervisor allowed standing upstairs then I wouldn’t of moved the bus, what happens if the bus turns a corner and everyone leans over and the bus tilts over and then injuries etc…, the driver will be accountable, the supervisor might get a small telling off but the driver would be charged if any deaths and sacked.


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I understand why they did it, but they shouldn't have. I wonder if anything will be introduced maybe the longer OmniDekka's because if 1 X1 is cancelled that is not one for over 1 hour and that one will chance to just be delayed a hell of a lot.

I'm not surprised they allowed the bus to be overcrowded, pre-covid it was rare to not have kids standing upstairs on the X21s going through Durham at ~3pm, they were sitting on the tables, on the floor, and even on the stairs. I wouldn't be surprised if it was still the same now

(10 Jan 2022, 5:26 pm)cbma06 wrote At the end of the day the bus driver will have to be accounted for as it’s the driver who’s responsible if anything happens, the supervisor shouldn’t of allowed it, what happens if further up the road and vosa/police stopped the bus for checks, if I was the driver and the supervisor allowed standing upstairs then I wouldn’t of moved the bus, what happens if the bus turns a corner and everyone leans over and the bus tilts over and then injuries etc…, the driver will be accountable, the supervisor might get a small telling off but the driver would be charged if any deaths and sacked.


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Whilst I get your point about the driver having a duty of care and safety obligations, if the supervisor has allowed this to happen, it’s hard for a driver to stand up and say no 1) If it’s his line manager or supervisor, asking a driver to disobey/question an instruction give by their boss, is hard 2) This is presumably in front of customers who are trying to get places, you can imagine “don’t be tight. Let us on” attitude people will. And if someone deemed more senior says yes to something, then passengers will be fuming that it hasn’t happened, however correct the driver may be. 

I agree with all your points about safety and drivers duty, but my biggest worry is that no driver should have been put in the position in the first place.

(10 Jan 2022, 4:39 pm)Adrian wrote Just noticed this follow up from the customer tweet who complained about overcrowding on that X1.



In another tweet it's mentioned they'll be following up with the depot, but even worse if it's accurate that it was overcrowded at a supervisor's direction. 


Couldn't agree more. Someone who always has time for people and I remember from what feels like a lifetime ago, when I used to bus to college.

(10 Jan 2022, 5:26 pm)cbma06 wrote At the end of the day the bus driver will have to be accounted for as it’s the driver who’s responsible if anything happens, the supervisor shouldn’t of allowed it, what happens if further up the road and vosa/police stopped the bus for checks, if I was the driver and the supervisor allowed standing upstairs then I wouldn’t of moved the bus, what happens if the bus turns a corner and everyone leans over and the bus tilts over and then injuries etc…, the driver will be accountable, the supervisor might get a small telling off but the driver would be charged if any deaths and sacked.


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Is this one person complaining or a number of passengers complaining?

It seems like you have already found the driver and/or supervisor guilty without the full story here. 

I bet we have all been on a bus that seemed rammed and full to capacity, but when you’ve actually looked there are empty seats.  The driver would know how many passengers he had on from his ticket machine.   Maybe the only thing the GNE staff are guilty of are expecting the passengers to actually sit on empty seats, preferring to stand where they shouldn’t.

(10 Jan 2022, 5:43 pm)Bazza wrote Is this one person complaining or a number of passengers complaining?

It seems like you have already found the driver and/or supervisor guilty without the full story here. 

I bet we have all been on a bus that seemed rammed and full to capacity, but when you’ve actually looked there are empty seats.  The driver would know how many passengers he had on from his ticket machine.   Maybe the only thing the GNE staff are guilty of are expecting the passengers to actually sit on empty seats, preferring to stand where they shouldn’t.

I have seen Arriva Double Deckers leaving Newcastle after games 'Bus Full' and there still being about 8 seats free at top deck with loads standing at the bottom

(10 Jan 2022, 5:43 pm)Bazza wrote Is this one person complaining or a number of passengers complaining?

It seems like you have already found the driver and/or supervisor guilty without the full story here. 

I bet we have all been on a bus that seemed rammed and full to capacity, but when you’ve actually looked there are empty seats.  The driver would know how many passengers he had on from his ticket machine.   Maybe the only thing the GNE staff are guilty of are expecting the passengers to actually sit on empty seats, preferring to stand where they shouldn’t.

I might be wrong in saying this, but as far as I'm aware standing upstairs is prohibited at all times (believe it's to do, at least in part, with altering the centre of gravity and therefore making the bus more prone to tipping on its side). The driver will have an upstairs CCTV monitor, would easily be able to see if people were standing, and should have pulled over and addressed the situation as early as safe to do so - unless of course, he's been instructed to allow it by the supervisor, in which case the mind boggles.

(10 Jan 2022, 5:43 pm)Bazza wrote Is this one person complaining or a number of passengers complaining?

It seems like you have already found the driver and/or supervisor guilty without the full story here. 

I bet we have all been on a bus that seemed rammed and full to capacity, but when you’ve actually looked there are empty seats.  The driver would know how many passengers he had on from his ticket machine.   Maybe the only thing the GNE staff are guilty of are expecting the passengers to actually sit on empty seats, preferring to stand where they shouldn’t.

Two people complained on twitter at the same time, suggesting passengers were standing upstairs. Data on bustimes backed up that the bus was full. See my original post.



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(10 Jan 2022, 8:30 pm)Adrian wrote Two people complained on twitter at the same time, suggesting passengers were standing upstairs. Data on bustimes backed up that the bus was full. See my original post.



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I saw your original post.

Bustimes states bus was full. Not over crowded. There are no numbers shown.

Do you know if the two people tweeting know each other?   I’ve seen that happen, two people who are together complaining separately.  

All I’m saying is that rushing to apportion blame when you weren’t there yourself is not fair on the people who were there.

(10 Jan 2022, 10:32 pm)Bazza wrote I saw your original post.

Bustimes states bus was full. Not over crowded. There are no numbers shown.

Do you know if the two people tweeting know each other?   I’ve seen that happen, two people who are together complaining separately.  

All I’m saying is that rushing to apportion blame when you weren’t there yourself is not fair on the people who were there.

I'm pointing out what has been reported, not apportioning blame. Its up to the company to investigate and establish the facts.

If it has happened, it shouldn't have happened, and its up to them to prevent it happening again.

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(10 Jan 2022, 10:40 pm)Adrian wrote I'm pointing out what has been reported, not apportioning blame. Its up to the company to investigate and establish the facts.

If it has happened, it shouldn't have happened, and its up to them to prevent it happening again.

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We certainly agree on that.  I can see that you certainly didn’t assume guilt, unfortunately some other posters did. 

There is far too much trial by social media as it is.  If there has been a complaint made, Ticketer data and CCTV can be viewed and it can be dealt with appropriately.

The whole overcrowding is far from ideal, but there’s a lot of arm chair management been thrown about this thread. I don’t know the full ins and outs but if this comes down from staff unless or not having staff there isn’t anything they can do but reduce services.

This seems to be common in the day and age at the minute, I work in hospitality and the lack of understanding or patience is beyond belief. This is yet another industry on its arse, if they don’t have the staff they don’t have the staff. It’s like going to a pub and people not understanding when there’s a queue yet there’s only two members of staff on the bar, people are fast to kick off, but yet don’t understand they’ve either struggled to hire, have x amount of people off, or people who won’t work!

Like I said I’ve skimmed a lot of this, but I’m guessing a lot of thought (and sacrifice) has had to go into their decision for the cuts.


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Standing upstairs and drivers ignorance to it isn't really anything new. It's hard to find a 21 that doesn't have folk sitting on stairs or tables on a match day once it hits Low Fell. On the old 724 the conductor used to charge you half the price if you were standing upstairs

Still a whopping load of daily short notice cancellations, with Little Pinks really badly hit over last couple of days. And this is in addition to the Saturday service cuts at some depots so can only imagine how much longer this list would be without those cuts too.

(11 Jan 2022, 9:26 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Still a whopping load of daily short notice cancellations, with Little Pinks really badly hit over last couple of days.  And this is in addition to the Saturday service cuts at some depots so can only imagine how much longer this list would be without those cuts too.

I respect that there's shortages but the 82 cancellations from Birtley tomorrow are totally unacceptable especially when there's no cancellations on the 4 at the same time.

08:05
08:35
09:10
09:40
10:10
10:40
11:10
11:40
12:10

That's pretty much unusable. So well for using the bus if you need to.

(11 Jan 2022, 10:19 pm)Storx wrote I respect that there's shortages but the 82 cancellations from Birtley tomorrow are totally unacceptable especially when there's no cancellations on the 4 at the same time.

08:05
08:35
09:10
09:40
10:10
10:40
11:10
11:40
12:10

That's pretty much unusable. So well for using the bus if you need to.

Believe at least some of these have been covered. Website should be updated in the morning if the process works as it should do..!


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It's quite possible the supervisor or driver asked passengers to stand further back or go upstairs. In my experience, people will go upstairs and stay up there unless instructed otherwise even if there's no seats. It would be hard for the supervisor to see from off the bus whether anyone was stood upstairs. The camera would only show the stairs with the doors open anyway. I would be very surprised if anyone instructed anyone to stand upstairs.

I'd hazard a guess that this is simply a case of miscommunication. Those StreetDecks can carry about 100 legally and I highly doubt that you'd be able to exceed that - sure GNE have checked CCTV and Ticketer data which will probably confirm the bus wasn't overloaded - just people standing where they shouldn't due to miscommunication.

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