(16 Jan 2022, 10:34 am)RMF1254 wrote Are the Little Coasters subsidised during the day? The 51/51A isn’t subsidised all day either although I believe there was money put into the 51A from the builders of the new estates in East Benton or Holystone.

They're not but they'd just fit in with them all and all really struggle (carry around fresh air most the time). The Northern sections of both the 19 and 42A are both subsidised though. 

Personally though I have a big problem with bus routes that are commercial during the day then paid by tax payers during the evening and Sundays. It's just not right a commercial company that profit it during some hours then when it doesn't suit then we have to pay for it. The profits (if there is any) from the likes of the 11 during the day would go help offset some of the costs in the evening or at least spend elsewhere within Nexus. 

It would also create a nice little network which might go somewhere with hubs at North Shields, Wallsend and Whitley Bay as they all serve the places. The farce of having one operator during the day and one during the evening is useless aswell but GNE or whoever shouldn't automatically win the contract because they run during the day either.

(16 Jan 2022, 11:30 am)Storx wrote They're not but they'd just fit in with them all and all really struggle (carry around fresh air most the time). The Northern sections of both the 19 and 42A are both subsidised though. 

Personally though I have a big problem with bus routes that are commercial during the day then paid by tax payers during the evening and Sundays. It's just not right a commercial company that profit it during some hours then when it doesn't suit then we have to pay for it. The profits (if there is any) from the likes of the 11 during the day would go help offset some of the costs in the evening or at least spend elsewhere within Nexus. 

It would also create a nice little network which might go somewhere with hubs at North Shields, Wallsend and Whitley Bay as they all serve the places. The farce of having one operator during the day and one during the evening is useless aswell but GNE or whoever shouldn't automatically win the contract because they run during the day either.

It may be that the profits created during the day are not enough to cover the losses during the evening, in which case the operator would withdraw completely.

(16 Jan 2022, 11:35 am)Bazza wrote It may be that the profits created during the day are not enough to cover the losses during the evening, in which case the operator would withdraw completely.

In theory though that would be a better though.

Let's the the route makes a profit of £150k during the day and costs £175k in the evening and Sundays. Right now some shareholders are getting £150k and the tax payer is paying £175k. If Nexus tendered the whole route out 24/7 (if it was ran properly) then it would only cost the tax payer £25k instead.

Right now is the worst of the worst imo.

(16 Jan 2022, 11:35 am)Bazza wrote It may be that the profits created during the day are not enough to cover the losses during the evening, in which case the operator would withdraw completely.

In which case, they need to do something about the daytime route and ensure it is more than sustainable, rather than maintaining the status quo.

The operators sole aim is to make money. Its not about passengers.
If they're struggling to make money from their existing network, then something is going wrong somewhere.

(16 Jan 2022, 12:18 pm)Andreos1 wrote In which case, they need to do something about the daytime route and ensure it is more than sustainable, rather than maintaining the status quo.

The operators sole aim is to make money. Its not about passengers.
If they're struggling to make money from their existing network, then something is going wrong somewhere.

There is lots of discussion on here on what is going wrong.   

Personally,   I believe it needs a root and branch change, rather than fiddling about at the edges.  

Large companies removing profits from public services to pay shareholders is one of the major hurdles to any improvement.

(16 Jan 2022, 12:46 pm)Bazza wrote There is lots of discussion on here on what is going wrong.   

Personally,   I believe it needs a root and branch change, rather than fiddling about at the edges.  

Large companies removing profits from public services to pay shareholders is one of the major hurdles to any improvement.

I agree. The whole thing needs shaking up. It is far from fit for purpose. 

I've deliberately stayed well away from the 'nationalise the network' conversations for a while now (despite me firmly believing it should be nationalised or re-regulated), as no matter who is making the decisions, I don't believe it will ever work whilst the network is set up as it is.
Buses are travelling to and from the same places they have done for decades, despite people changing their work habits and housing being built in places there were never houses before.
Meanwhile, operators bleat on about falling passenger levels, the need for government support, conversations about forcing people to make the switch and telling the world they need more priority measures.

It doesn't take a genius to work out what things they can do to get people out of their cars.

I wonder if GNE are successful in the EV bid whether they might get 2 ADL BYD E200MMC for the 684 with maybe 1 or 2 tables. 

Tbh upgrading the QuayCity Q3's it would have been nice if they have maybe 1 or 2 tables on.

(16 Jan 2022, 11:30 am)Storx wrote They're not but they'd just fit in with them all and all really struggle (carry around fresh air most the time). The Northern sections of both the 19 and 42A are both subsidised though. 

Personally though I have a big problem with bus routes that are commercial during the day then paid by tax payers during the evening and Sundays. It's just not right a commercial company that profit it during some hours then when it doesn't suit then we have to pay for it. The profits (if there is any) from the likes of the 11 during the day would go help offset some of the costs in the evening or at least spend elsewhere within Nexus. 

It would also create a nice little network which might go somewhere with hubs at North Shields, Wallsend and Whitley Bay as they all serve the places. The farce of having one operator during the day and one during the evening is useless aswell but GNE or whoever shouldn't automatically win the contract because they run during the day either.

I use the 51 quite often to travel to Newcastle, I have never got on to an empty bus yet.

(16 Jan 2022, 1:02 pm)Omega54 wrote I wonder if GNE are successful in the EV bid whether they might get 2 ADL BYD E200MMC for the 684 with maybe 1 or 2 tables. 

Tbh upgrading the QuayCity Q3's it would have been nice if they have maybe 1 or 2 tables on.

684 isn't covered in the ZEBRA bid for Hexham (which I believe will be Yutongs anyway), and at roughly £379,801 per bus, I can't any operator commercially funding them anytime soon.

(16 Jan 2022, 7:26 pm)Adrian wrote 684 isn't covered in the ZEBRA bid for Hexham (which I believe will be Yutongs anyway), and at roughly £379,801 per bus, I can't see any operator commercially funding them anytime soon.

So the 684 will keep Versas for the long term? What Hexham services are covered in the ZEBRA bid? Are the Yutongs going to be good buses?

(16 Jan 2022, 9:06 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote So the 684 will keep Versas for the long term? What Hexham services are covered in the ZEBRA bid? Are the Yutongs going to be good buses?

This post has details of the ZEBRA bid allocation: https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?tid=3355&pid=270000#pid270000

(16 Jan 2022, 10:11 pm)Adrian wrote This post has details of the ZEBRA bid allocation: https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?tid=3355&pid=270000#pid270000

It's not working for me, but thanks anyway. No idea why it's not working.

Can't help but wonder if GNE have jumped the gun a bit with giving up on the commuter type services. Since the announcements re Covid measures being removed as part of Operation Red Meat/Save Big Dog there's been a marked change in a lot of the chatter around return to offices. Certainly in some cases a much more significant expectation of physical presence in office than had previously been mooted.

(21 Jan 2022, 2:35 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Can't help but wonder if GNE have jumped the gun a bit with giving up on the commuter type services.  Since the announcements re Covid measures being removed as part of Operation Red Meat/Save Big Dog there's been a marked change in a lot of the chatter around return to offices.  Certainly in some cases a much more significant expectation of physical presence in office than had previously been mooted.

I'd say they've jumped the gun in advance of the BSIP, but I don't think the Big Dog will be around long enough for "Operation Red Meat" to become reality.

They might well remove restrictions, but they'd have to introduce new legislation if they wanted to mandate the private sector back into the office. Many are looking, if not already at advance stages, of hybrid working models. This is what operators should be focusing their time on; ensuring suitable travel products are available to ensure the bus still remains an attractive proposition to hybrid workers on office days.

(21 Jan 2022, 2:46 pm)Adrian wrote I'd say they've jumped the gun in advance of the BSIP, but I don't think the Big Dog will be around long enough for "Operation Red Meat" to become reality.

They might well remove restrictions, but they'd have to introduce new legislation if they wanted to mandate the private sector back into the office. Many are looking, if not already at advance stages, of hybrid working models. This is what operators should be focusing their time on; ensuring suitable travel products are available to ensure the bus still remains an attractive proposition to hybrid workers on office days.

Yes but..public sector is a pretty sizeable part of the workforce, especially in NE.  And equally some examples of big name private businesses throwing caution to the wind and calling workers back to offices en masse (certainly some of the banking institutions, for example).  Of course there are a decent number of forward thinking private companies who are looking at meaningful hybrid models but I guess my point was the numbers apparently to be required to return to offices in public sector and some of the private sector is greater than might have been anticipated a few weeks or months ago.

Regardless of the detail of hybrid working pattern thoughs, the current offer from operators is unlikely to tempt a willing switch onto buses, for all the reasons well rehearsed on here.  I think with more in offices, those who have no choice but to use bus will make the reduced offering of peak runs fuller/run later and so continue the vicious cycle; meaning those with any choice steering clear.

(21 Jan 2022, 3:57 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Yes but..public sector is a pretty sizeable part of the workforce, especially in NE.  And equally some examples of big name private businesses throwing caution to the wind and calling workers back to offices en masse (certainly some of the banking institutions, for example).  Of course there are a decent number of forward thinking private companies who are looking at meaningful hybrid models but I guess my point was the numbers apparently to be required to return to offices in public sector and some of the private sector is greater than might have been anticipated a few weeks or months ago.

Regardless of the detail of hybrid working pattern thoughs, the current offer from operators is unlikely to tempt a willing switch onto buses, for all the reasons well rehearsed on here.  I think with more in offices, those who have no choice but to use bus will make the reduced offering of peak runs fuller/run later and so continue the vicious cycle; meaning those with any choice steering clear.

GNE still have a good offering to Cobalt though:

- 309 every 20 mins including 310 covering NBS & Sage with a very short walk.

- X39 at peak times.

(21 Jan 2022, 4:53 pm)L469 YVK wrote GNE still have a good offering to Cobalt though:

- 309 every 20 mins including 310 covering NBS & Sage with a very short walk.

- X39 at peak times.

It's only a good offering if you happen to live on those routes. 
If you don't, then it's not really a good offering at all.

(21 Jan 2022, 2:46 pm)Adrian wrote I'd say they've jumped the gun in advance of the BSIP, but I don't think the Big Dog will be around long enough for "Operation Red Meat" to become reality.

They might well remove restrictions, but they'd have to introduce new legislation if they wanted to mandate the private sector back into the office. Many are looking, if not already at advance stages, of hybrid working models. This is what operators should be focusing their time on; ensuring suitable travel products are available to ensure the bus still remains an attractive proposition to hybrid workers on office days.

indeed, the networking group I work with speaks for around 20k employees and despite the bluster in the right wing press I can assure you, hybrid is here and is the future. There is no need for 5 day offices aside those who choose to do so (roughly 5% so far) 

this idea that living with covid means back to old routes and ways of working is pipe dreams. Power is with employees, the great resignation as it’s called means if you don’t offer at least hybrid then you won’t get a look in. There’s a huge recruitment issue in the NE at the moment with London bases firms offering double wages for Home working but still saving on what they’d pay on offices etc. 

And who is leading this charge…the civil service of course.

the future for commuter travel has to be interchangeable flexible hybrid focused ticketing…all of which the current big 3 fail at miserably.

Well DCC have given up trying to keep up.

X85 not being withdrawn from 30th January? Nexus website now says X84 withdrawn (replaced by 684) and X85 revised timetable. Maybe this is to keep a service on Sundays?

(23 Jan 2022, 12:12 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote X85 not being withdrawn from 30th January? Nexus website now says X84 withdrawn (replaced by 684) and X85 revised timetable. Maybe this is to keep a service on Sundays?

X85 - 1 each way - Mon to Fri only.


https://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/f...300122.pdf

(23 Jan 2022, 12:14 pm)Michael wrote X85 - 1 each way - Mon to Fri only.


https://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/f...300122.pdf

Thank you. Couldn't find it. What's the point of that?

(23 Jan 2022, 12:18 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Thank you. Couldn't find it. What's the point of that?

Some reason its only shown in the timetable section.

Probs because passengers moaned it was going to take too long on the 684 - and I bet half of them don't even use it!

It is listed under the X85 section in the GNE press release. A NCC-related amendment.

(23 Jan 2022, 12:22 pm)Michael wrote Some reason its only shown in the timetable section.

Probs because passengers moaned it was going to take too long on the 684 - and I bet half of them don't even use it!

Yeah the 684/685 will take forever to do the full route between Hexham and Newcastle, but one X85 each way and only Monday to Friday seems pointless and unusable. The 74  is good one way, but the X84/X85 is a good quicker option. Disappointed there will be no services on Sundays (they could at least implement ticket acceptance on the 685). Arriva operates the Sunday 685 don't they?

(23 Jan 2022, 12:39 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Yeah the 684/685 will take forever to do the full route between Hexham and Newcastle, but one X85 each way and only Monday to Friday seems pointless and unusable. The 74  is good one way, but the X84/X85 is a good quicker option. Disappointed there will be no services on Sundays (they could at least implement ticket acceptance on the 685). Arriva operates the Sunday 685 don't they?

Arriva do operate the 685 on a Sunday between Newcastle & Hexham. Probably the reason GNE won't run the 684 on a Sunday 

During the week 684 is roughly an 1hour 8 minutes journey time

685 Newcastle to Hexham about 50 minutes or so (Stagecoach/Arriva)

Be good if the 684 journey time could be under an hour (maybe about 50 minutes, same as the 685).

I wonder which depot is going to operate it and what vehicle will use it. 

It would be nice if it was 5498.

(23 Jan 2022, 1:06 pm)Omega54 wrote I wonder which depot is going to operate it and what vehicle will use it. 

It would be nice if it was 5498.

Hexham, Versa I guess. 

5498 is a good vehicle.

(23 Jan 2022, 12:39 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Yeah the 684/685 will take forever to do the full route between Hexham and Newcastle, but one X85 each way and only Monday to Friday seems pointless and unusable. The 74  is good one way, but the X84/X85 is a good quicker option. Disappointed there will be no services on Sundays (they could at least implement ticket acceptance on the 685). Arriva operates the Sunday 685 don't they?

Not pointless to the worker working 9-5 Monday-Friday