North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses
North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses
Having a quick skim through there - honestly the entire thing seems pie in the sky.
The "Superbus" thing is an absolute minefield - let's be honest with current Sunday trading laws nobody needs a bus every 7 mins on a Sunday (given they have a category for this, I'm assuming they feel like multiple routes would fall into it). The resultant night network is baffling as well, and very Newcastle centric as per - the Durham to Bishop 6 is allegedly a Superbus route somewhere in the document yet doesn't get a nightbus?
Some of the "ITS"/bus priority things will simply never happen, or at least not in the scale they're talking about. Some of the places/amounts of money are bizarre too, whats the £255k for at Morpeth?
While I appreciate buses in the NE need to improve, and things like night buses and bus priority are part of that, this "plan" seems like over promise and under deliver by quite a large amount.
Had a bit of a chuckle at "However, from a customer perspective, the complex range of brands, different fare offers, and complex timetables have significant limitations and are not tied together through a unified bus network brand." in a paper fronted by the MD of a company introducing new brands like they're going out of fashion...
(24 Nov 2021, 6:53 pm)mb134 Having a quick skim through there - honestly the entire thing seems pie in the sky.
The "Superbus" thing is an absolute minefield - let's be honest with current Sunday trading laws nobody needs a bus every 7 mins on a Sunday (given they have a category for this, I'm assuming they feel like multiple routes would fall into it). The resultant night network is baffling as well, and very Newcastle centric as per - the Durham to Bishop 6 is allegedly a Superbus route somewhere in the document yet doesn't get a nightbus?
Some of the "ITS"/bus priority things will simply never happen, or at least not in the scale they're talking about. Some of the places/amounts of money are bizarre too, whats the £255k for at Morpeth?
While I appreciate buses in the NE need to improve, and things like night buses and bus priority are part of that, this "plan" seems like over promise and under deliver by quite a large amount.
Had a bit of a chuckle at "However, from a customer perspective, the complex range of brands, different fare offers, and complex timetables have significant limitations and are not tied together through a unified bus network brand." in a paper fronted by the MD of a company introducing new brands like they're going out of fashion...
(24 Nov 2021, 6:53 pm)mb134 Having a quick skim through there - honestly the entire thing seems pie in the sky.
The "Superbus" thing is an absolute minefield - let's be honest with current Sunday trading laws nobody needs a bus every 7 mins on a Sunday (given they have a category for this, I'm assuming they feel like multiple routes would fall into it). The resultant night network is baffling as well, and very Newcastle centric as per - the Durham to Bishop 6 is allegedly a Superbus route somewhere in the document yet doesn't get a nightbus?
Some of the "ITS"/bus priority things will simply never happen, or at least not in the scale they're talking about. Some of the places/amounts of money are bizarre too, whats the £255k for at Morpeth?
While I appreciate buses in the NE need to improve, and things like night buses and bus priority are part of that, this "plan" seems like over promise and under deliver by quite a large amount.
Had a bit of a chuckle at "However, from a customer perspective, the complex range of brands, different fare offers, and complex timetables have significant limitations and are not tied together through a unified bus network brand." in a paper fronted by the MD of a company introducing new brands like they're going out of fashion...
(24 Nov 2021, 8:55 pm)Keeiajs I am so confused at these Superbus, Greenbus, redbus. Can somoene dumb it down please
(24 Nov 2021, 8:55 pm)Keeiajs I am so confused at these Superbus, Greenbus, redbus. Can somoene dumb it down please
(24 Nov 2021, 10:20 pm)Andreos1 Superbus is from the planet krypton and his arch enemies greenbus and redbus are out to destroy him.
They run just a couple of minutes ahead of Superbus along main corridors and use their powers to turn traffic lights red.
Superbus has a weakness when it comes to loose change and kryptonite.
(24 Nov 2021, 10:20 pm)Andreos1 Superbus is from the planet krypton and his arch enemies greenbus and redbus are out to destroy him.
They run just a couple of minutes ahead of Superbus along main corridors and use their powers to turn traffic lights red.
Superbus has a weakness when it comes to loose change and kryptonite.
Whilst in Newcastle this afternoon I was having a think about where a New Bus Station could be positioned, and if space was to be repurposed I think Central Station would be a good shout for a small/medium sized station for services which operate via Central Station. This would mean pick up/drop off zones being moved and road layout changing also.
Highlighted in "Lime Green" we have Clayton Street West, Berwick Street, Neville Street running down onto Collingwood Street which would have traffic in both direction thus eliminating the current one-way system which from what I have seen causing considerable congestion around the Station.
Highlighted in "Blue" we have the new Pick Up/Drop Off zone and Station Taxi rank with further space created by removal of existing bus stops on Neville Street.
Highlighted in "Red" is where the new Bus Station would be positioned with traffic priority in place on exit via Neville Street/Clayton Street West, The new Station would integrate with Local/National Rail Network and I was also thinking of utilising this a Hub for Nat Ex/Megabus/Flixbus and Day Tour Ops to Pick Up with the Nat Ex Coach Station Closing to facilitate for another Pick Up/Drop Off Zone for Central Station. It would also provide a safer space during the evening as current layout leaves you prone to the elements such as bad weather.
In terms of a layout i'd have it the same as Haymarket with it being adjoined onto the current Central Station building if this is possible.
(05 Feb 2022, 10:57 pm)Malarkey Whilst in Newcastle this afternoon I was having a think about where a New Bus Station could be positioned, and if space was to be repurposed I think Central Station would be a good shout for a small/medium sized station for services which operate via Central Station. This would mean pick up/drop off zones being moved and road layout changing also.
Highlighted in "Lime Green" we have Clayton Street West, Berwick Street, Neville Street running down onto Collingwood Street which would have traffic in both direction thus eliminating the current one-way system which from what I have seen causing considerable congestion around the Station.
Highlighted in "Blue" we have the new Pick Up/Drop Off zone and Station Taxi rank with further space created by removal of existing bus stops on Neville Street.
Highlighted in "Red" is where the new Bus Station would be positioned with traffic priority in place on exit via Neville Street/Clayton Street West, The new Station would integrate with Local/National Rail Network and I was also thinking of utilising this a Hub for Nat Ex/Megabus/Flixbus and Day Tour Ops to Pick Up with the Nat Ex Coach Station Closing to facilitate for another Pick Up/Drop Off Zone for Central Station. It would also provide a safer space during the evening as current layout leaves you prone to the elements such as bad weather.
In terms of a layout i'd have it the same as Haymarket with it being adjoined onto the current Central Station building if this is possible.
(05 Feb 2022, 10:57 pm)Malarkey Whilst in Newcastle this afternoon I was having a think about where a New Bus Station could be positioned, and if space was to be repurposed I think Central Station would be a good shout for a small/medium sized station for services which operate via Central Station. This would mean pick up/drop off zones being moved and road layout changing also.
Highlighted in "Lime Green" we have Clayton Street West, Berwick Street, Neville Street running down onto Collingwood Street which would have traffic in both direction thus eliminating the current one-way system which from what I have seen causing considerable congestion around the Station.
Highlighted in "Blue" we have the new Pick Up/Drop Off zone and Station Taxi rank with further space created by removal of existing bus stops on Neville Street.
Highlighted in "Red" is where the new Bus Station would be positioned with traffic priority in place on exit via Neville Street/Clayton Street West, The new Station would integrate with Local/National Rail Network and I was also thinking of utilising this a Hub for Nat Ex/Megabus/Flixbus and Day Tour Ops to Pick Up with the Nat Ex Coach Station Closing to facilitate for another Pick Up/Drop Off Zone for Central Station. It would also provide a safer space during the evening as current layout leaves you prone to the elements such as bad weather.
In terms of a layout i'd have it the same as Haymarket with it being adjoined onto the current Central Station building if this is possible.
Just seen this in chronicle about what could have been at marlbough cresent regarding a bus station...
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/his...mantis_rec&int_medium=web&int_campaign=more_like_this
(06 Feb 2022, 7:19 am)54APhotography I wouldn't expect building listing would allow for much change to the building at Central, but removal of the drop off area and routing of buses through there would make more sense. When there was impetus behind a metro terminus at Central (for a western extension via Scotswood, Metro Centre and beyond), the parcels area was the choice, therefore removing the car park/staff access which would make a problem for a bus only section. Despite appearance on google earth, there isn't an awful lot of 'length' for a long line of stops, unless you had two 'platforms', but even then the one closest to the A186 would have to be shorter to allow for the squeeze as the road swings towards the exit.
(06 Feb 2022, 7:19 am)54APhotography I wouldn't expect building listing would allow for much change to the building at Central, but removal of the drop off area and routing of buses through there would make more sense. When there was impetus behind a metro terminus at Central (for a western extension via Scotswood, Metro Centre and beyond), the parcels area was the choice, therefore removing the car park/staff access which would make a problem for a bus only section. Despite appearance on google earth, there isn't an awful lot of 'length' for a long line of stops, unless you had two 'platforms', but even then the one closest to the A186 would have to be shorter to allow for the squeeze as the road swings towards the exit.
Is this all not a bit moot now? I read something on FB (so it must be true) that the BSIP is now dead in the water. Total promised government spending has been slashed to an extent that the North Easts plans alone would account for over two thirds of what’s available for the whole country.
Sorry I tried to find the article to provide a link but couldn’t. It was a report in the Northumberland Gazette .
(06 Feb 2022, 1:18 pm)Adrian Yeah, there's a few problems with the site Malarkey has highlighted. It'd block 1/3 of the facade of the Grade I listed Newcastle station and therefore damage the appearance of it. It'd probably wouldn't even be considered for this reason alone.Ah yes, the motorail bay, I knew they wouldn't be able to alter the facade. There is so little space with the A186 configuration.
The other problems you'd face is that the former Motorail Terminal is Grade II listed, in part specifically for the front appearance, so blocking it completely would be a big no. It'd also take some of the view away from the Grade II listed 1 Neville Street, which I don't think would be significant enough alone, but it just adds to the reasoning to reject.
(06 Feb 2022, 1:18 pm)Adrian Yeah, there's a few problems with the site Malarkey has highlighted. It'd block 1/3 of the facade of the Grade I listed Newcastle station and therefore damage the appearance of it. It'd probably wouldn't even be considered for this reason alone.Ah yes, the motorail bay, I knew they wouldn't be able to alter the facade. There is so little space with the A186 configuration.
The other problems you'd face is that the former Motorail Terminal is Grade II listed, in part specifically for the front appearance, so blocking it completely would be a big no. It'd also take some of the view away from the Grade II listed 1 Neville Street, which I don't think would be significant enough alone, but it just adds to the reasoning to reject.
(06 Feb 2022, 3:37 pm)Bazza Is this all not a bit moot now? I read something on FB (so it must be true) that the BSIP is now dead in the water. Total promised government spending has been slashed to an extent that the North Easts plans alone would account for over two thirds of what’s available for the whole country.
Sorry I tried to find the article to provide a link but couldn’t. It was a report in the Northumberland Gazette .
(06 Feb 2022, 3:37 pm)Bazza Is this all not a bit moot now? I read something on FB (so it must be true) that the BSIP is now dead in the water. Total promised government spending has been slashed to an extent that the North Easts plans alone would account for over two thirds of what’s available for the whole country.
Sorry I tried to find the article to provide a link but couldn’t. It was a report in the Northumberland Gazette .
(06 Feb 2022, 3:37 pm)Bazza Is this all not a bit moot now? I read something on FB (so it must be true) that the BSIP is now dead in the water. Total promised government spending has been slashed to an extent that the North Easts plans alone would account for over two thirds of what’s available for the whole country.
Sorry I tried to find the article to provide a link but couldn’t. It was a report in the Northumberland Gazette .
(07 Feb 2022, 7:47 am)Rob44 Yes i saw this too. Mr Gannon said the government was heading in the right direct but wasn't offering anywhere near the support £££££ wise to get these ideas up and running. They were not going to change there plans but like you say they arn't going to get 2/3 of the money for the north east. Probably end up with a really watered down version... cant see nothing improving though... which should be an improvement?!?!
(06 Feb 2022, 3:37 pm)Bazza Is this all not a bit moot now? I read something on FB (so it must be true) that the BSIP is now dead in the water. Total promised government spending has been slashed to an extent that the North Easts plans alone would account for over two thirds of what’s available for the whole country.
Sorry I tried to find the article to provide a link but couldn’t. It was a report in the Northumberland Gazette .
(07 Feb 2022, 7:47 am)Rob44 Yes i saw this too. Mr Gannon said the government was heading in the right direct but wasn't offering anywhere near the support £££££ wise to get these ideas up and running. They were not going to change there plans but like you say they arn't going to get 2/3 of the money for the north east. Probably end up with a really watered down version... cant see nothing improving though... which should be an improvement?!?!
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/la...ouncement/
Updates to this.
(04 Apr 2022, 3:40 pm)Andreos1 https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/la...ouncement/
Updates to this.
(04 Apr 2022, 3:40 pm)Andreos1 https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/la...ouncement/
Updates to this.
from the chronicle
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...t-23591600
(04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm)Adrian "Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."It's better than nowt. But as you say, I can't see it going very far at all and I struggle to see the long term benefits of this. Particularly when so much of it seems to be on infrastructure, bus priority and propping up the (flawed?) commercial decisions of these operators.
Really? We've been given around 20% of what we stated is required, yet Tobyn is still celebrating it as some great recognition of the North East. It's no wonder we politically struggle to get transport investment in the region, when we're always asking for a golden ticket, but happy to take a kick up the backside instead.
"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."
The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower fares and expanded route networks (23.0%)
With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...
(04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm)Adrian "Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."It's better than nowt. But as you say, I can't see it going very far at all and I struggle to see the long term benefits of this. Particularly when so much of it seems to be on infrastructure, bus priority and propping up the (flawed?) commercial decisions of these operators.
Really? We've been given around 20% of what we stated is required, yet Tobyn is still celebrating it as some great recognition of the North East. It's no wonder we politically struggle to get transport investment in the region, when we're always asking for a golden ticket, but happy to take a kick up the backside instead.
"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."
The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower fares and expanded route networks (23.0%)
With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...
(04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm)Adrian "Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."Wonder if the 60/20/56 will be receiving any upgrades in new bus form, or whether the money will just go to Riverside. Maybe the 21.
Really? We've been given around 20% of what we stated is required, yet Tobyn is still celebrating it as some great recognition of the North East. It's no wonder we politically struggle to get transport investment in the region, when we're always asking for a golden ticket, but happy to take a kick up the backside instead.
"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."
The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower fares and expanded route networks (23.0%)
With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...
(04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm)Adrian "Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."Wonder if the 60/20/56 will be receiving any upgrades in new bus form, or whether the money will just go to Riverside. Maybe the 21.
Really? We've been given around 20% of what we stated is required, yet Tobyn is still celebrating it as some great recognition of the North East. It's no wonder we politically struggle to get transport investment in the region, when we're always asking for a golden ticket, but happy to take a kick up the backside instead.
"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."
The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower fares and expanded route networks (23.0%)
With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...
(04 Apr 2022, 4:26 pm)Andreos1 It's better than nowt. But as you say, I can't see it going very far at all and I struggle to see the long term benefits of this. Particularly when so much of it seems to be on infrastructure, bus priority and propping up the (flawed?) commercial decisions of these operators.
(04 Apr 2022, 4:26 pm)Andreos1 It's better than nowt. But as you say, I can't see it going very far at all and I struggle to see the long term benefits of this. Particularly when so much of it seems to be on infrastructure, bus priority and propping up the (flawed?) commercial decisions of these operators.