(12 Apr 2022, 10:29 am)Storx wrote There won't be any new buses coming to GNE anytime soon, bus companies aren't making money the last thing they will be doing is buying things when they don't need them.

In the terms of the cuts no doubt the likes of 5, 6, 9, 26, 28/28A, 33, 38, 39/39A, 55, 67, 69, Peterlee Locals, Washington Locals, Consett Locals are the types of services which are at risk when the Covid money dries up. They're the type of services which have already been cut in North Tyneside and most are already subsidised at some point. That's speculation though.

I wouldn't say the 6 is at risk, but I'm no expert on these things.

(12 Apr 2022, 10:46 am)Jack Gill wrote I wouldn't say the 6 is at risk, but I'm no expert on these things.

The 6 is a funny one as it's had so many changes over the years since the 43/44. Not sure how well it's doing now though since the merging of it and the M6/M7/M8. It'll still exist mind but have a feeling it might become more subsidised, even the 1 is subsidised throughout on a night now and they always seem quite similar. I could be horribly wrong of course.

(12 Apr 2022, 10:29 am)Storx wrote There won't be any new buses coming to GNE anytime soon, bus companies aren't making money the last thing they will be doing is buying things when they don't need them.

In the terms of the cuts no doubt the likes of 5, 6, 9, 26, 28/28A, 33, 38, 39/39A, 55, 67, 69, Peterlee Locals, Washington Locals, Consett Locals are the types of services which are at risk when the Covid money dries up. They're the type of services which have already been cut in North Tyneside and most are already subsidised at some point. That's speculation though.

i wouldn't say the 6,9,26,33,38,39/39A are at risk. 38 & 39/39A are being subsided already on a evening and have done for many years. Same with Peterlee and Washington. 33 Carriers a lot of people, contrary to many peoples belief here, so does the 38.

Also there must be some myth with the 55 that it carries no body, on sundays there are quite a few people who use it, same during the week many a time I have seen it more busier than the X20 & 20.

(12 Apr 2022, 10:29 am)Storx wrote There won't be any new buses coming to GNE anytime soon, bus companies aren't making money the last thing they will be doing is buying things when they don't need them.

In the terms of the cuts no doubt the likes of 5, 6, 9, 26, 28/28A, 33, 38, 39/39A, 55, 67, 69, Peterlee Locals, Washington Locals, Consett Locals are the types of services which are at risk when the Covid money dries up. They're the type of services which have already been cut in North Tyneside and most are already subsidised at some point. That's speculation though.

i was the only person on the 28a on the way to the match on Friday 1215 from perkinsville until it reach salt well park. When i was talking to the drive he said most of the 28's as like that through the day and its only at peaks times when make money

(12 Apr 2022, 11:25 am)Unber43 wrote i wouldn't say the 6,9,26,33,38,39/39A are at risk. 38 & 39/39A are being subsided already on a evening and have done for many years. Same with Peterlee and Washington. 33 Carriers a lot of people, contrary to many peoples belief here, so does the 38.

Also there must be some myth with the 55 that it carries no body, on sundays there are quite a few people who use it, same during the week many a time I have seen it more busier than the X20 & 20.

The thing is the subsidy in the evening is a big alarm bell for a route as it means it's marginal already. If it wasn't then the night services wouldn't be subsidised at all as the profit in the day could carry the evening services over, no company would happily let GCT run their routes. Minibuses carrying 7 or so passengers a journey aren't going to be making money. It's no different to the 11 and 42 in North Tyneside which have just gone. All the mod cons and that but looking at bus times but the 3 buses on the unique section of the 39/39A atm are carrying 3 passengers between them. The 2/2A does the rest of the route. For Washington it's an average of 4 passengers per bus and it's been lifted by the 1 bus with 15 PAX on atm. They're all at massive risk if cuts are coming. Same as Stagecoach 8 and 18 for some balance in Sunderland.

For the 33 there's questions why it needs to exist at all it duplicates the Stagecoach service 13. Similar with the 38 which duplicates the Stagecoach 12 and GNE 2A and the 55 with the 20/X1/62.

(12 Apr 2022, 11:51 am)Rob44 wrote i was the only person on the 28a on the way to the match on Friday 1215 from perkinsville until it reach salt well park. When i was talking to the drive he said most of the 28's as like that through the day and its only at peaks times when make money

Not surprised, I've used it before and it wasn't much better. The move to Market Street won't help it either as it's out the way.

(12 Apr 2022, 12:19 pm)Storx wrote The thing is the subsidy in the evening is a big alarm bell for a route as it means it's marginal already. If it wasn't then the night services wouldn't be subsidised at all as the profit in the day could carry the evening services over, no company would happily let GCT run their routes. Minibuses carrying 7 or so passengers a journey aren't going to be making money. It's no different to the 11 and 42 in North Tyneside which have just gone. All the mod cons and that but looking at bus times but the 3 buses on the unique section of the 39/39A atm are carrying 3 passengers between them. The 2/2A does the rest of the route. For Washington it's an average of 4 passengers per bus and it's been lifted by the 1 bus with 15 PAX on atm. They're all at massive risk if cuts are coming. Same as Stagecoach 8 and 18 for some balance in Sunderland.

For the 33 there's questions why it needs to exist at all it duplicates the Stagecoach service 13. Similar with the 38 which duplicates the Stagecoach 12 and GNE 2A and the 55 with the 20/X1/62.

For 33 it may be a duplicate but when Im in Sunderland it is regularly busy, 38 picks up people.

There is no denying the 39/39A are quite low used during the day, but they seem to make enough money to make a profit, no matter how much it is still a profit.

(12 Apr 2022, 1:49 pm)Unber43 wrote For 33 it may be a duplicate but when Im in Sunderland it is regularly busy, 38 picks up people.

There is no denying the 39/39A are quite low used during the day, but they seem to make enough money to make a profit, no matter how much it is still a profit.

Part of the BSIP is to stop stuff like the 33 though. We don't know if they're making a profit though they've been getting bailed out by the government for the past couple of years now. Wouldn't be surprised if they're not though.

I have a feeling they'll mess around with the 2/2A/39/39A and make 3 30 min services out of it eventually and also potentially bolt on the Washington end whatever is the best of the Washington locals and make a route out of them or they'll just give the lot up like in North Tyneside. I don't think anyone expected the 11 or 19 to go altogether, the 42 wasn't really a surprise though.

(12 Apr 2022, 10:46 am)Jack Gill wrote I wouldn't say the 6 is at risk, but I'm no expert on these things.

6 and X72 could in theory be changed into the following of they wanted to cut further

6 - as now but hourly and doing the 'old' 6A variation from Burnopfield to Stanley during the evening & on Sundays

6A - X72 route from Stanley to Sunniside then 6 route to Newcastle

X70 - reverted to again serve Tantobie

X71 - revised to serve Lobley Hill to replace X72 (or another service could do that??) 

X30/X31 - Reduced to half hourly (1x every hour each)

PVR reduction depending on timings would be 3x consisting of E400MMC. Technically, that would then make 6x E400MMC available. Presumably, could be used on 47/47A perhaps if something could free up 6336/37 at Riverside?

(12 Apr 2022, 11:51 am)Rob44 wrote i was the only person on the 28a on the way to the match on Friday 1215 from perkinsville until it reach salt well park. When i was talking to the drive he said most of the 28's as like that through the day and its only at peaks times when make money

The problem with the 28A is is that it's such a meandering long route and the majority of its route is covered by either higher frequency services or services that connect with each other and are still quicker than the direct option. The link to Bensham Hospital isn't really that important as its services have massively dwindled and it won't be long until it goes. Removing its link to Beamish won't have helped any nmber

The 28 serves more of a purpose with links to Thomas More and the QE Hospital plus of course Beamish. It's fairly often the 28 is a quicker route from Newcastle to Birtley than the 21 is at peak.

But yes, Market St isn't ideal at all

(12 Apr 2022, 3:52 pm)L469 YVK wrote 6 and X72 could in theory be changed into the following of they wanted to cut further

6 - as now but hourly and doing the 'old' 6A variation from Burnopfield to Stanley during the evening & on Sundays

6A - X72 route from Stanley to Sunniside then 6 route to Newcastle

X70 - reverted to again serve Tantobie

X71 - revised to serve Lobley Hill to replace X72 (or another service could do that??) 

X30/X31 - Reduced to half hourly (1x every hour each)

PVR reduction depending on timings would be 3x consisting of E400MMC. Technically, that would then make 6x E400MMC available. Presumably, could be used on 47/47A perhaps if something could free up 6336/37 at Riverside?

Maybe if there was a decrease in E400 PVR, they could put the X10 upto every 30 mins or maybe a new express route between Newcastle and Sunderland X56 possibly.

(12 Apr 2022, 3:52 pm)L469 YVK wrote 6 and X72 could in theory be changed into the following of they wanted to cut further

6 - as now but hourly and doing the 'old' 6A variation from Burnopfield to Stanley during the evening & on Sundays

6A - X72 route from Stanley to Sunniside then 6 route to Newcastle

X70 - reverted to again serve Tantobie

X71 - revised to serve Lobley Hill to replace X72 (or another service could do that??) 

X30/X31 - Reduced to half hourly (1x every hour each)

PVR reduction depending on timings would be 3x consisting of E400MMC. Technically, that would then make 6x E400MMC available. Presumably, could be used on 47/47A perhaps if something could free up 6336/37 at Riverside?

I'm shocked the X30/1 aren't already half hourly, from what I've seen they rarely get busy. I don't think they really need decker's, however they are nice for the journey.
As for the 6/6A thing I'm surprised that didn't happen either. The X72 doesn't seem the "express" type, and follows the 6 for a bit (I think?)
It probably wouldn't happen, but if it did then they could make it so the 6 was every 20 minutes instead of half hourly, so 2x 6 and 1x 6A per hour.

(12 Apr 2022, 4:32 pm)Jack Gill wrote I'm shocked the X30/1 aren't already half hourly, from what I've seen they rarely get busy. I don't think they really need decker's, however they are nice for the journey.
As for the 6/6A thing I'm surprised that didn't happen either. The X72 doesn't seem the "express" type, and follows the 6 for a bit (I think?)
It probably wouldn't happen, but if it did then they could make it so the 6 was every 20 minutes instead of half hourly, so 2x 6 and 1x 6A per hour.

Why would they increase the 6 (with a 6A) to everu 20 minutes when the whole point would be to reduce services?

The existing 6 would be cut to hourly with the 6A running hourly to replace parts of the X72, allowing the X70/X71 to run every 30 minutes rather than 20/40 as now. In turn, that would then allow then to coordinate every 15 minutes at Sunniside with a reduced X30/X31 running every 30 minutes.

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(12 Apr 2022, 4:19 pm)Unber43 wrote Maybe if there was a decrease in E400 PVR, they could put the X10 upto every 30 mins or maybe a new express route between Newcastle and Sunderland X56 possibly.

X56 I doubt (unless some sort of link with Follingsby). X10 would need to be at bursting point to either consider re-increasing frequency in part or full, or re-introducing the X9.

47/47A would be the most likely candidates to displace older B9TLs.

(12 Apr 2022, 4:38 pm)L469 YVK wrote

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X56 I doubt (unless some sort of link with Follingsby). X10 would need to be at bursting point to either consider re-increasing frequency in part or full, or re-introducing the X9.

47/47A would be the most likely candidates to displace older B9TLs.

Something to compete with X24 aswell, Start  Bus Station - A690 (non-stop from Farrington) - Follingsby - Heworth - Gateshead - Eldon Square. 

47/47A Wouldn't the 16' Streetdecks suffice, but that would probs stop the 50 & 26 interworking, with the amount of deckers on that route, especially on a evening when there is one or two people on. 


You could have the 26 & 5 & 20 all sort of interwork with drivers changing over at South Sheilds to do one, then a leg back on the 20.

(12 Apr 2022, 4:56 pm)Unber43 wrote Something to compete with X24 aswell, Start  Bus Station - A690 (non-stop from Farrington) - Follingsby - Heworth - Gateshead - Eldon Square. 

47/47A Wouldn't the 16' Streetdecks suffice, but that would probs stop the 50 & 26 interworking, with the amount of deckers on that route, especially on a evening when there is one or two people on. 


You could have the 26 & 5 & 20 all sort of interwork with drivers changing over at South Sheilds to do one, then a leg back on the 20.

I would imagine changeovers at South Shields would want to be avoided.

(12 Apr 2022, 4:38 pm)L469 YVK wrote Why would they increase the 6 (with a 6A) to everu 20 minutes when the whole point would be to reduce services?

The existing 6 would be cut to hourly with the 6A running hourly to replace parts of the X72, allowing the X70/X71 to run every 30 minutes rather than 20/40 as now. In turn, that would then allow then to coordinate every 15 minutes at Sunniside with a reduced X30/X31 running every 30 minutes.

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X56 I doubt (unless some sort of link with Follingsby). X10 would need to be at bursting point to either consider re-increasing frequency in part or full, or re-introducing the X9.

47/47A would be the most likely candidates to displace older B9TLs.

I know this isn't a suggestions thread but to fix part of your 6 problem here they could extend the 28 after Beamish towards Annfield Plain via No Place, Humber Hill, Sheridan Drive, Humber Hill, Wear Road then the X72 route to Annfield Plain and terminate it by doing a loop around West Road, Blackett Street and New Front Street. Grange Villa etc has the 78 now. Would open new links between Birtley, Wrekenton and the QE with Stanley (not sure if anyone wants it but it's there) and partially replace the 31.

The 6/X72 or whatever should also terminate at Annfield Plain. Even downgrade it to normal buses rather than X Lines (if you kept the X72 route) and interwork it with the new 28. Not sure the 6 is the best suggestion though as you'd drop Stanley to the Metro Centre to hourly from 4 buses very recently.

Could maybe keep the 72 from Annfield Plain to Gateshead only hourly as an extension to what was the old 95, could maybe go around the loop at Sunniside aswell and give them a link to Gateshead using old Versa's or whatever they can find.

(12 Apr 2022, 8:11 am)Storx wrote Are the Mercs even that bad? Ignoring all the usual caveats of Bustimes the Versa's seem much worse. Percy Main is really struggling as 4 of the Q3's are off the road. There also appears to be 4/10 VOR at Deptford aswell. There's 6/26 VOR for the Merc's in comparison which given their age isn't that bad. There's always a lot of buses off the road at for one reason or another.

Spares must be a problem, anything from abroad seems delayed and mixed up in the customs fiasco we have. The Versa are temperamental, and I must admit, I've passed several sat stranded on 2s at various spots.

The Deptford Mercs based on withdrawal patterns have what 2 or 3 years left?

Not up to speed on Versa engines, whether they have been replaced or not.

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(12 Apr 2022, 9:04 am)busmanT wrote Or perhaps buses re-allocated from further service cuts?

Certainly cuts are another inevitability. The future is a very uncertain one..

(12 Apr 2022, 5:27 pm)54APhotography wrote Spares must be a problem, anything from abroad seems delayed and mixed up in the customs fiasco we have. The Versa are temperamental, and I must admit, I've passed several sat stranded on 2s at various spots.

The Deptford Mercs based on withdrawal patterns have what 2 or 3 years left?

Not up to speed on Versa engines, whether they have been replaced or not.

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Certainly cuts are another inevitability. The future is a very uncertain one..

Aye guess it's what they see. Some of the Versa's don't have much longer (some of the 09 plates are already getting withdrawn). They're probably due at the same, the catch 22 is the Merc's have had a refurbishment in their lifetime however most the 09/10 plate Versa's haven't been touched in their whole life and are showing their age.

Have a feeling it might be 09 Versa's (Euro 4) -> 08/58 Citaros (Euro 5) -> 09 Versa's (Euro 6) - 10/11 Versa's (Euro 5) -> 10 Citaro's (Euro 5) - 11 Versa's (Euro 6) will be the order they'll be withdrawn. Don't believe the Versa's have had an engine replacement, but could be wrong there.

It seems the 09 Versa's are next in line to go though and can imagine the electric buses will do most of them out of service.