(15 Apr 2022, 9:23 pm)Unber43 wrote You could just start it at Sunderland, and terminate it at Dalton Park or extend the 62 to parkisde with the 63. 

63 probs every 30 mins, 62 still every hour

I really think this new link could work

(15 Apr 2022, 9:32 pm)Acky81 wrote I really think this new link could work

So do i. 63 could probs used refurbished 63' Plate Solo's probs 4 & Could go along side a 60 referb aswell. with 5376 or 5369 being the dedicated spare.

I just wonder is anyone listening

63 - Parkside - Seaham - the new road - Morrisons - DoxFord Park - Sunderland

62 - extend upto Parkside for connections to Doxford Park & Dalton park

I’ve already suggested it to go north east previous but fell on deaf ears. New links for Doxford park and ryhope to Seaham front parkside and Dalton park

Sunderland and district orange ?

(15 Apr 2022, 9:47 pm)Acky81 wrote I’ve already suggested it to go north east previous but fell on deaf ears. New links for Doxford park and ryhope to Seaham front parkside and Dalton park

Sunderland and district orange ?

Or Just Drifter Connect. I always thought the 61/62 should be Drifter something. I think what Malarky (if I spelt it right) had loads of amazing suggestions to reform routes but they are going to fall on deaf ears)

60 Drifter 
61 Drifter Link
62 Drifter Ranger
63 Drifter Connect

Or something different

60/61/62/63-renamed to Links

Suggested revision to services 4 and X1

Service 4 revised to operate every 20 minutes only. No change to route.

Service X1 in existing state withdrawn and replaced by new services

X1 Newcastle to Easington Lane via Gateshead, QE Hospital, Wrekenton, Galleries, Shiney Row, Houghton and Hetton. Every 60 minutes.

X2 Newcastle to Peterlee via Gateshead, QE Hospital, Wrekenton, Galleries, Shiney Row, Houghton, Hetton and Easington Lane every 60 minutes

X3 Newcastle to Dalton Park via Gateshead, QE Hospital, Wrekenton, Galleries, Shiney Row, Houghton, Hetton and Easington Lane. Every 60 minutes

X4 Newcastle to Easington Lane via Gateshead, Heworth, fast to Amazon, fast to Galleries (via A194M), Shiney Row, Houghton and Hetton. Every 20 minutes

This will remove all confusion re X1 destinations.

A 10 minute frequency retained between

Newcastle, Gateshead, Galleries, Shiney, Houghton, Hetton and Easington Lane.

20 min frequency between Newcastle, Heworth, Amazon and Galleries.

20 min frequency between Newcastle, Q E Hospital, Wrekenton and Galleries.

Hourly extension on X2 and X3 to Peterlee and Dalton Park respectively.

(16 Apr 2022, 9:40 am)V514DFT wrote 60/61/62/63-renamed to Links

I think it should be 

Drifter 60 

Then possibly 61/62/63 as Drifter Connect/Links or like Drifter Red

(16 Apr 2022, 1:42 pm)Unber43 wrote I think it should be 

Drifter 60 

Then possibly 61/62/63 as Drifter Connect/Links or like Drifter Red

What about 'Drifter Bar'



They come in multipacks so they also used for the 61/62/63

(16 Apr 2022, 1:49 pm)MurdnunoC wrote What about 'Drifter Bar'



They come in multipacks so they also used for the 61/62/63

First time I am hearing of this bar.

(16 Apr 2022, 2:10 pm)Unber43 wrote First time I am hearing of this bar.

They're actually quite nice. Wholly recommend. .

(16 Apr 2022, 1:49 pm)MurdnunoC wrote What about 'Drifter Bar'



They come in multipacks so they also used for the 61/62/63

This made me chuckle,thanks

(16 Apr 2022, 1:21 pm)ifm001 wrote Suggested revision to services 4 and X1

Service 4 revised to operate every 20 minutes only. No change to route.

Service X1 in existing state withdrawn and replaced by new services

X1 Newcastle to Easington Lane via Gateshead,  QE Hospital, Wrekenton, Galleries, Shiney Row, Houghton and Hetton.  Every 60 minutes.

X2 Newcastle to Peterlee via Gateshead,  QE Hospital, Wrekenton, Galleries, Shiney Row, Houghton, Hetton and Easington Lane every 60 minutes

X3 Newcastle to Dalton Park via Gateshead,  QE Hospital, Wrekenton, Galleries, Shiney Row, Houghton, Hetton and Easington Lane. Every 60 minutes

X4 Newcastle to Easington Lane via Gateshead, Heworth, fast to Amazon, fast to Galleries (via A194M), Shiney Row, Houghton and Hetton. Every 20 minutes

This will remove all confusion re X1 destinations.

A 10 minute frequency retained between

Newcastle, Gateshead, Galleries, Shiney, Houghton, Hetton and Easington Lane.

20 min frequency between Newcastle, Heworth, Amazon and Galleries.

20 min frequency between Newcastle, Q E Hospital, Wrekenton and Galleries.

Hourly extension on X2 and X3 to Peterlee and Dalton Park respectively.

Think the people between heworth and galleries will be miffed at such a big reduction in frequency!

(16 Apr 2022, 4:15 pm)JP6004 wrote Think the people between heworth and galleries will be miffed at such a big reduction in frequency!

No reduction in frequency between Hewprth and Galleries point to point. 4 and X4 combined a 10 min service 

The areas inbetween are well served

(16 Apr 2022, 4:28 pm)ifm001 wrote No reduction in frequency between Hewprth and Galleries point to point. 4 and X4 combined a 10 min service 

The areas inbetween are well served

No it's non stop from heworth>amazon>galleries. Big reduction of frequency for North Washington and South Gateshead. Arguably the most busy section of the route

(16 Apr 2022, 1:21 pm)ifm001 wrote Suggested revision to services 4 and X1

Service 4 revised to operate every 20 minutes only. No change to route.

Service X1 in existing state withdrawn and replaced by new services

X1 Newcastle to Easington Lane via Gateshead,  QE Hospital, Wrekenton, Galleries, Shiney Row, Houghton and Hetton.  Every 60 minutes.

X2 Newcastle to Peterlee via Gateshead,  QE Hospital, Wrekenton, Galleries, Shiney Row, Houghton, Hetton and Easington Lane every 60 minutes

X3 Newcastle to Dalton Park via Gateshead,  QE Hospital, Wrekenton, Galleries, Shiney Row, Houghton, Hetton and Easington Lane. Every 60 minutes

X4 Newcastle to Easington Lane via Gateshead, Heworth, fast to Amazon, fast to Galleries (via A194M), Shiney Row, Houghton and Hetton. Every 20 minutes

This will remove all confusion re X1 destinations.

A 10 minute frequency retained between

Newcastle, Gateshead, Galleries, Shiney, Houghton, Hetton and Easington Lane.

20 min frequency between Newcastle, Heworth, Amazon and Galleries.

20 min frequency between Newcastle, Q E Hospital, Wrekenton and Galleries.

Hourly extension on X2 and X3 to Peterlee and Dalton Park respectively.

There shouldn't be any express services between Newcastle and Heworth (excluding the X10), the Metro is there. We need less buses in Newcastle not more they are the cause for most of the emissions in the centre and Newcastle would be a much better place if there were no cars or buses at all imo (never going to happen though for obvious reasons).

(16 Apr 2022, 4:28 pm)ifm001 wrote No reduction in frequency between Hewprth and Galleries point to point. 4 and X4 combined a 10 min service 

The areas inbetween are well served

Do passenger numbers in those areas deem a more frequent service necessary.  I've never seen passenger usage from points in-between appear to warrant increased frequency.

---

(16 Apr 2022, 4:54 pm)Storx wrote There shouldn't be any express services between Newcastle and Heworth (excluding the X10), the Metro is there. We need less buses in Newcastle not more they are the cause for most of the emissions in the centre and Newcastle would be a much better place if there were no cars or buses at all imo (never going to happen though for obvious reasons).

Not adding any more buses, utilising existing from the X1

The service from Newcastle to heworth is to the  utilisation of rhe service for  Amazon employees. It can easily omit Heworth but I think the patronage would say otherwise.

(16 Apr 2022, 5:15 pm)ifm001 wrote Do passenger numbers in those areas deem a more frequent service necessary.  I've never seen passenger usage from points in-between appear to warrant increased frequency.

---

Not adding any more buses, utilising existing from the X1

The service from Newcastle to heworth is to the  utilisation of rhe service for  Amazon employees. It can easily omit Heworth but I think the patronage would say otherwise.

Be better to just terminate them and have interworking tickets. Even with a change it would be much much quicker.

It's the interworking tickets which are the problem which are a tad bit expensive atm in comparison to the bus direct. 

Heworth is one of the few places it actually works.

I was thinking this so probably just a random around the world suggestion or might be valuable in parts. If the 317 goes back out to tender, GNE could bid for it and if successful, make the following changes. These are based on the fact that the 22 is now the main service between Churchill Street and Newcastle so that part from GNE would be scaled back but keeping some sort of a service on a lower scale, taking into account the route variation through Appletree Gardens. Also, the 311 would have some use rather than just being an offspring keeping the 310 out of Hadrian Park during the day.

Current PVRs
1 - 9x
309/310/311 - 16x

Coaster 1:
- Withdrawn and replaced in parts by revised services 311 and 317.

309 - every 15 minutes to Whitley Bay; every 30 minutes to Blyth:
- Same route as now.

310 - every 30 minutes:
- Same route as now.

311 - every 30 minutes:
- Old 305 route from Newcastle to Ridley Avenue via Hadrian Park then same route as current 1 to Whitley Bay Town Centre only (timings wouldn't stretch to Seafront) every 30 minutes. Would be timed to co-ordinate with Arriva's 306 between North Shields and Whitley Bay on any common sections of route. Journey time from Percy Main & High Howdon to Newcastle would be similar to the 1.

317 - every 30 minutes:
- Same route as now between Whitley Bay and Wallsend with the exception of serving Windsor Drive rather than Coniston Road, would also continue to Wallsend High Street as opposed from Wallsend Metro. From Wallsend High Street, would continue to Gateshead via current 1 route.

NEW PVRs
- 309/310/311 - 17x B9TL
(Whitley Bay 309 runs & 311 - 9x)
(Blyth 309 runs & 310 - 8x)
- 317 - 7x OM934 StreetLite

Euro 6 spares for Percy Main would be 1x B9TL (currently 18x B9TLs at Percy Main) and 4x OM934 StreetLite (currently 11x OM934 StreetLites at Percy Main).

(18 Apr 2022, 11:30 am)L469 YVK wrote I was thinking this so probably just a random around the world suggestion or might be valuable in parts. If the 317 goes back out to tender, GNE could bid for it and if successful, make the following changes. These are based on the fact that the 22 is now the main service between Churchill Street and Newcastle so that part from GNE would be scaled back but keeping some sort of a service on a lower scale, taking into account the route variation through Appletree Gardens. Also, the 311 would have some use rather than just being an offspring keeping the 310 out of Hadrian Park during the day.

Current PVRs
1 - 9x
309/310/311 - 16x

Coaster 1:
- Withdrawn and replaced in parts by revised services 311 and 317.

309 - every 15 minutes to Whitley Bay; every 30 minutes to Blyth:
- Same route as now.

310 - every 30 minutes:
- Same route as now.

311 - every 30 minutes:
- Old 305 route from Newcastle to Ridley Avenue via Hadrian Park then same route as current 1 to Whitley Bay Town Centre only (timings wouldn't stretch to Seafront) every 30 minutes. Would be timed to co-ordinate with Arriva's 306 between North Shields and Whitley Bay on any common sections of route. Journey time from Percy Main & High Howdon to Newcastle would be similar to the 1.

317 - every 30 minutes:
- Same route as now between Whitley Bay and Wallsend with the exception of serving Windsor Drive rather than Coniston Road, would also continue to Wallsend High Street as opposed from Wallsend Metro. From Wallsend High Street, would continue to Gateshead via current 1 route.

NEW PVRs
- 309/310/311 - 17x B9TL
(Whitley Bay 309 runs & 311 - 9x)
(Blyth 309 runs & 310 - 8x)
- 317 - 7x OM934 StreetLite

Euro 6 spares for Percy Main would be 1x B9TL (currently 18x B9TLs at Percy Main) and 4x OM934 StreetLite (currently 11x OM934 StreetLites at Percy Main).

I have been on the 317 a few times and Stagecoach have a lot of people buying tickets it's not just concessional passes. So they must be making goo money. Plus there was a few people including myself who got the 10 from Jarrow and switched to the 317 at Royal Quays so good links there. And I don't think they'll give it up easily.

In my opinion, GNE have chopped and changed their routes in NT for years until they are unrecognisable then withdraw because those passengers don't use the changed routes. 

Stagecoach and Arriva are the better operators for NT as Stagecoach is the main operator in ST and Newcastle both of Which are linked by the 10/11 & 317. And Arriva is the majority in North Tyneside and North Northumberland.

---

(18 Apr 2022, 11:30 am)L469 YVK wrote I was thinking this so probably just a random around the world suggestion or might be valuable in parts. If the 317 goes back out to tender, GNE could bid for it and if successful, make the following changes. These are based on the fact that the 22 is now the main service between Churchill Street and Newcastle so that part from GNE would be scaled back but keeping some sort of a service on a lower scale, taking into account the route variation through Appletree Gardens. Also, the 311 would have some use rather than just being an offspring keeping the 310 out of Hadrian Park during the day.

Current PVRs
1 - 9x
309/310/311 - 16x

Coaster 1:
- Withdrawn and replaced in parts by revised services 311 and 317.

309 - every 15 minutes to Whitley Bay; every 30 minutes to Blyth:
- Same route as now.

310 - every 30 minutes:
- Same route as now.

311 - every 30 minutes:
- Old 305 route from Newcastle to Ridley Avenue via Hadrian Park then same route as current 1 to Whitley Bay Town Centre only (timings wouldn't stretch to Seafront) every 30 minutes. Would be timed to co-ordinate with Arriva's 306 between North Shields and Whitley Bay on any common sections of route. Journey time from Percy Main & High Howdon to Newcastle would be similar to the 1.

317 - every 30 minutes:
- Same route as now between Whitley Bay and Wallsend with the exception of serving Windsor Drive rather than Coniston Road, would also continue to Wallsend High Street as opposed from Wallsend Metro. From Wallsend High Street, would continue to Gateshead via current 1 route.

NEW PVRs
- 309/310/311 - 17x B9TL
(Whitley Bay 309 runs & 311 - 9x)
(Blyth 309 runs & 310 - 8x)
- 317 - 7x OM934 StreetLite

Euro 6 spares for Percy Main would be 1x B9TL (currently 18x B9TLs at Percy Main) and 4x OM934 StreetLite (currently 11x OM934 StreetLites at Percy Main).

I have been on the 317 a few times and Stagecoach have a lot of people buying tickets it's not just concessional passes. So they must be making goo money. Plus there was a few people including myself who got the 10 from Jarrow and switched to the 317 at Royal Quays so good links there. And I don't think they'll give it up easily.

In my opinion, GNE have chopped and changed their routes in NT for years until they are unrecognisable then withdraw because those passengers don't use the changed routes. 

Stagecoach and Arriva are the better operators for NT as Stagecoach is the main operator in ST and Newcastle both of Which are linked by the 10/11 & 317. And Arriva is the majority in North Tyneside and North Northumberland.

(19 Apr 2022, 10:00 am)logidoodah wrote I have been on the 317 a few times and Stagecoach have a lot of people buying tickets it's not just concessional passes. So they must be making goo money. Plus there was a few people including myself who got the 10 from Jarrow and switched to the 317 at Royal Quays so good links there. And I don't think they'll give it up easily.

In my opinion, GNE have chopped and changed their routes in NT for years until they are unrecognisable then withdraw because those passengers don't use the changed routes. 

Stagecoach and Arriva are the better operators for NT as Stagecoach is the main operator in ST and Newcastle both of Which are linked by the 10/11 & 317. And Arriva is the majority in North Tyneside and North Northumberland.

Aye that's true and to be fair, I think by the seems of it they're giving the 317 a good go.

(19 Apr 2022, 11:31 am)L469 YVK wrote Aye that's true and to be fair, I think by the seems of it they're giving the 317 a good go.

The change operator may have also pulled passengers off of Metro/Go North East Service 1 as they no longer need to by a Network One if living in Stagecoach territory they can simply use their Megarider and switch buses at Wallsend or Royal Quays and go through to Whitley Bay.

I do think Stagecoach should merge the 12 or 40 with the 317 so you have a through link to Whitley Bay without needing to change buses which would again be a further benefit for those in North Tyneside plus it would open up further local/cross-city links also.

The 317 is making use of good links and cut routes. U lived in Howdon on the 41/41A. You had to change to the 11 to get any futher on the journey. The 317 links with the Ferry which is also a good point. 317 like said above connections with the 10/11 at the Royal Quays making a good use for stagecoach tickets

(19 Apr 2022, 6:43 pm)Malarkey wrote I do think Stagecoach should merge the 12 or 40 with the 317 so you have a through link to Whitley Bay without needing to change buses which would again be a further benefit for those in North Tyneside plus it would open up further local/cross-city links also.

Cam't see that happening.

The 317 takes approximately 53 minutes to get to Whitley Bay from Wallsend. The 12 takes over 30 minutes to get from Newcastle to Wallsend and the 40 takes approximately 25. That gives a running time of around 1hr 20 minutes to get from Newcastle to Whitley Bay using Stagecoach routes, irrespective of whether you have to change buses or not. It would take nigh on an hour just to get to North Shields alone. Now, there may be some masochists (or veg) out there who wish to take in a lengthy tour of Howdon and Holy Cross, but I reckon the majority will opt for the quickest route into town regardless of cost. Now you might argue, merging the services may open up links between Walker and Percy Main or wherever, but if there is a demand for such a link, bearing in my mind that neither Walker, Howdon nor Percy Main are bastions of employment (Royal Quays is dead nowadays too), a short extension to Walker would be the better option.

Also, merging services potentially creates problems with reliability. If there's an incident or heavy traffic in town which creates a delay in the service, it is users further on down the route who are going to bear the brunt of the inconvenience with late buses, or even buses being cancelled or regulated in extreme cases. This might deter passengers from using the service in future, perhaps creating an even bigger problem.

(19 Apr 2022, 6:43 pm)Malarkey wrote The change operator may have also pulled passengers off of Metro/Go North East Service 1 as they no longer need to by a Network One if living in Stagecoach territory they can simply use their Megarider and switch buses at Wallsend or Royal Quays and go through to Whitley Bay.

I do think Stagecoach should merge the 12 or 40 with the 317 so you have a through link to Whitley Bay without needing to change buses which would again be a further benefit for those in North Tyneside plus it would open up further local/cross-city links also.

The 317 should be split imo I know I've mentioned it a few times.

There should be one bus route which is Cramlington -> 57A to Whitley Bay additionally serving the hospital -> 317 to North Shields Ferry every 30 minutes only.

and a second route Wallsend -> North Shields, maybe bolted onto the end of the 18 to restore the Q3 links to Wallsend aswell.

The 19, 52 or something else should be extended to Ashington in replacement for the 57 and the Seaton Delaval to Cramlington via East Cramlington is served by the 19 anyway. There's no/little demand for a Seaton Valley / Whitley Bay to Bedlington / Ashington direct it's just operational reasons. There is demand for Cramlington / Cramlington Hospital / Monkseaton and Seaton Valley to Rake Lane for hospital appointments etc.

(19 Apr 2022, 7:12 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Cam't see that happening.

The 317 takes approximately 53 minutes to get to Whitley Bay from Wallsend. The 12 takes over 30 minutes to get from Newcastle to Wallsend and the 40 takes approximately 25. That gives a running time of around 1hr 20 minutes to get from Newcastle to Whitley Bay using Stagecoach routes, irrespective of whether you have to change buses or not. It would take nigh on an hour just to get to North Shields alone. Now, there may be some masochists (or veg) out there who wish to take in a lengthy tour of Howdon and Holy Cross, but I reckon the majority will opt for the quickest route into town regardless of cost. Now you might argue, merging the services may open up links between Walker and Percy Main or wherever, but if there is a demand for such a link, bearing in my mind that neither Walker, Howdon nor Percy Main are bastions of employment (Royal Quays is dead nowadays too), a short extension to Walker would be the better option.

Also, merging services potentially creates problems with reliability. If there's an incident or heavy traffic in town which creates a delay in the service, it is users further on down the route who are going to bear the brunt of the inconvenience with late buses, or even buses being cancelled or regulated in extreme cases. This might deter passengers from using the service in future, perhaps creating an even bigger problem.

Quite right. The 317 is timed to connect with the ferry and any extension west of Wallsend would increase the probability of delays, missing the ferry connection. I would prefer to see the 317 terminating at the ferry and the section west of North Shields run as a separate service (the old 313 route). That's what we had for decades before GNE started messing about with this route.

(20 Apr 2022, 8:14 am)Ex-conductor wrote Quite right. The 317 is timed to connect with the ferry and any extension west of Wallsend would increase the probability of delays, missing the ferry connection. I would prefer to see the 317 terminating at the ferry and the section west of North Shields run as a separate service (the old 313 route). That's what we had for decades before GNE started messing about with this route.

I also agree. Too much messing around in 2010 drove many people to abandon the bus and get back into there cars. The withdrawal of the 44 to Whitley Bay  was a perfect example of this and taking the 317 away from the ferry took away most of this routes passengers now thankfully re instated.

(20 Apr 2022, 6:24 am)Storx wrote The 317 should be split imo I know I've mentioned it a few times.

There should be one bus route which is Cramlington -> 57A to Whitley Bay additionally serving the hospital -> 317 to North Shields Ferry every 30 minutes only.

and a second route Wallsend -> North Shields, maybe bolted onto the end of the 18 to restore the Q3 links to Wallsend aswell.

The 317 is a few amalgamated routes to basically save Nexus money they won't be changing it anytime soon imo. Even though it saved money it is actually a good route for passenger usage and links. 

And for your 18 point they could just extend the 18 to Wallsend and time it with the 317. (As that section got cut because of the Q3's higher frequency.)

(20 Apr 2022, 10:06 am)logidoodah wrote The 317 is a few amalgamated routes to basically save Nexus money they won't be changing it anytime soon imo. Even though it saved money it is actually a good route for passenger usage and links. 

And for your 18 point they could just extend the 18 to Wallsend and time it with the 317. (As that section got cut because of the Q3's higher frequency.)

Apparently that section didn't get enough passengers so they cut it. Seemed stupid that 3 days after the changes for the Q3 were announced a petition was put up to save that section

(20 Apr 2022, 4:27 pm)Aaron21 wrote Apparently that section didn't get enough passengers so they cut it. Seemed stupid that 3 days after the changes for the Q3 were announced a petition was put up to save that section

I meant the 18 originally got cut as the Q3 had higher frequency and better links

78 have a longer layover in Sunderland, 78 has been delayed loads today and normal days, adding 1 to the PVR (durham culture one) may not be a bad idea to improve reliability