So this might be a stupid question, but what is the most popular route across GNE? Now I know it might be obvious to say the 21, but from what I've seen (based on bustimes, so not totally accurate) the 21 doesn't actually get busy on a lot of journeys, even at the reduced 10 minute "temporary" timetable.

Neither is the 58 or Loop however they still got double dekcers.

(21 Apr 2022, 6:30 pm)Jack Gill wrote So this might be a stupid question, but what is the most popular route across GNE? Now I know it might be obvious to say the 21, but from what I've seen (based on bustimes, so not totally accurate) the 21 doesn't actually get busy on a lot of journeys, even at the reduced 10 minute "temporary" timetable.

21 pretty much.

Using the number of passengers on board at a time doesn't really say much as it doesn't pick up people getting on/off. There's quite a few places where people swap around so you might have 10 people going from CLS -> Birtley, 5 from Birtley to Low Fell and 15 from Low Fell to Gateshead but you won't pick them up as the max there is 15. Compare to that say the X71 where there's very little in between Consett and Newcastle of real wanting to go to so you might have 25 people at Newcastle by Consett you might have only had 35 people on board.

Without data though in the Newcastle area it's generally considered

SNE: 39/40
Arriva: 308
GNE: 21

Are the flagship routes, some might argue about the 308 nowadays but it was the first service to go back to normal service.

Ah, makes sense. I was just making an assumption of the random times I would look at bustimes aha.

(21 Apr 2022, 7:51 pm)Jack Gill wrote Ah, makes sense. I was just making an assumption of the random times I would look at bustimes aha.

Yeah, might be other's that are busier now mind as Covid has messed everything up, the X1 will be up there too. The 21 is a right chore of a route though as it usually stops at every stop, similar with the 308 tbh. Try to avoid both personally if I need them.

The X1 is definitely a contender for one of the most popular, but the 21 is probably on top, especially if it does go back to every 7 minutes.

(21 Apr 2022, 7:37 pm)Storx wrote SNE: 39/40
Arriva: 308
GNE: 21

Are the flagship routes, some might argue about the 308 nowadays but it was the first service to go back to normal service.

308 still strong...........but I'd say X21/X22 for Arriva.

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(21 Apr 2022, 8:19 pm)Jack Gill wrote The X1 is definitely a contender for one of the most popular, but the 21 is probably on top, especially if it does go back to every 7 minutes.

If I had to guess GNE's top 5 in terms of numbers
1.) 21
2.) X1
3.) 10/10A/10B
4.) 20
5.) X45/X46

(21 Apr 2022, 8:25 pm)L469 YVK wrote 308 still strong...........but I'd say X21/X22 for Arriva.

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If I had to guess GNE's top 5 in terms of numbers
1.) 21
2.) X1
3.) 10/10A/10B
4.) 20
5.) X45/X46

1.) 21
2.) X1
3.) 10/10A/10B
4.) 20
5.) X45/X46
6) X21
7) 309/10/11
8) 60
9) 56
10) 47/47A 

I am pretty sure the X66 would be 3rd.

(21 Apr 2022, 8:15 pm)Storx wrote Yeah, might be other's that are busier now mind as Covid has messed everything up, the X1 will be up there too. The 21 is a right chore of a route though as it usually stops at every stop, similar with the 308 tbh. Try to avoid both personally if I need them.

I would be very surprised if the X1 made much money via its fare box though. Despite any popularity it might have.
The nature of its route and having to rely on other services to feed it in places like Houghton and the Galleries, must impact on its traditional fare structure and the revenue it takes.

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(21 Apr 2022, 8:29 pm)Unber43 wrote 1.) 21
2.) X1
3.) 10/10A/10B
4.) 20
5.) X45/X46
6) X21
7) 309/10/11
8) 60
9) 56
10) 47/47A 

I am pretty sure the X66 would be 3rd. 

Again, like the X1, it's not going to take much in the way of fares.

(21 Apr 2022, 8:25 pm)L469 YVK wrote 308 still strong...........but I'd say X21/X22 for Arriva.

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If I had to guess GNE's top 5 in terms of numbers
1.) 21
2.) X1
3.) 10/10A/10B
4.) 20
5.) X45/X46

See the X21/X22 is a funny one as it falls in the X71 category. You might have a full load leaving Newcastle but by the time it gets to Ashington it'll be dead. There really is nothing in between so odds on you might not be picking anyone up. Most the Northumbria expresses are like that tbf whereas the 308 has Tyne Met, Silverlink and Whitley Bay on route to drop off / pick up people at. I have a feeling the 6 and 7 in Durham and 63 in Redcar will be up there aswell in particular the 7 (that could even pip the 308 tbh).

For GNE I'd say

1. 21
2. X1
3. 56
4. 58
5. 10/10A/10B

(21 Apr 2022, 8:40 pm)Andreos1 wrote I would be very surprised if the X1 made much money via its fare box though. Despite any popularity it might have.
The nature of its route and having to rely on other services to feed it in places like Houghton and the Galleries, must impact on its traditional fare structure and the revenue it takes.

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Again, like the X1, it's not going to take much in the way of fares.

Aye your probably right there like, guess it depends how they calculate the fares and split it up whether it's 50/50 or 90/10 towards the X1 because of the length.

(21 Apr 2022, 8:58 pm)Storx wrote See the X21/X22 is a funny one as it falls in the X71 category. You might have a full load leaving Newcastle but by the time it gets to Ashington it'll be dead. There really is nothing in between so odds on you might not be picking anyone up. Most the Northumbria expresses are like that tbf whereas the 308 has Tyne Met, Silverlink and Whitley Bay on route to drop off / pick up people at. I have a feeling the 6 and 7 in Durham and 63 in Redcar will be up there aswell in particular the 7 (that could even pip the 308 tbh).

For GNE I'd say

1. 21
2. X1
3. 56
4. 58
5. 10/10A/10B


Aye your probably right there like, guess it depends how they calculate the fares and split it up whether it's 50/50 or 90/10 towards the X1 because of the length.

I think you are over estimating the 56 & 58 in passenger numbers.

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(21 Apr 2022, 8:29 pm)Unber43 wrote 1.) 21
2.) X1
3.) 10/10A/10B
4.) 20
5.) X45/X46
6) X21
7) 309/10/11
8) 60
9) 56
10) 47/47A 

I am pretty sure the X66 would be 3rd.

Infact its probs 

1) 21
2) X1
3) 10/A/B
4) X21
5) 20
6) X45/X46
7) 309-11
8) 60
9) 56
10) 4

(21 Apr 2022, 9:18 pm)Unber43 wrote I think you are over estimating the 56 & 58 in passenger numbers.

I don't think I am, especially talking about numbers the 56 has so many different flows.

Sunderland, Nissan, Concord, Wrekenton, QE, Gateshead/Newcastle are all places people will travel to/from so you might have 5 people travelling from Sunderland to Nissan another 5 from Nissan to Concord another 5 from there to Wrekenton another 5 from there to the QE and final 5 to Gateshead.

There's 25 passengers there, check tracking it's max 5 and that's being extremely low. Compare that to say the 10A there might be 20 passengers on at the Metro Centre it'll be 2 or so by the time it gets to the other end and it likely picked up about 3 people on the whole route as there's no-where to go.

The 58 is a short route so if there's only 20 people on, you can add the 15 coming back as it'll be half way back to Newcastle the time the X71 has got anywhere near Consett to pick another route.

There's a reason those 2 plus the 21 were the night buses.

Edit: I also forgot about the 53/54 which will be right up there aswell.

It would be intresting if GNE releases the top 10-20 busiest/popular buses

For Go North East I'd say:
1. 21
2. X1
3. X66
4. 20
5. 10/10A/10B
6. 309/310/311
7. X21
8. X45/X46
9. 16/16A
10. 56

For Arriva I'd say
1. 308
2. 7 (Darlington - Durham)
3. X21/X22
4. 6
5. X93

Not really sure about Stagecoach.

GNE
1) 21
2) X1
3) X66
4) 20
5) 10's
6) 309/310
7) 49
8) 53/54
9) X45
10) 51/52

I was on the 53 to town yesterday at midday and it was choca. I see v514dft has it in their list but im surprised not in many more? I remember when northumbria/arriva went up against GNE on this route all those years back...hardly worth running a direct competition route on one of your competitors least profitable/busy services?

(23 Apr 2022, 7:32 am)Rob44 wrote I was on the 53 to town yesterday at midday and it was choca.  I see v514dft has it in their list but im surprised not in many more?  I remember when northumbria/arriva went up against GNE on this route all those years back...hardly worth running a direct competition route on one of your competitors least profitable/busy services?

It's confusing what people are rating it on as it seems it's more people on bustimes = more popular which I disagree with. The X21, X45 and X46 imo would be no-where near the top. Ones every 30 minutes and half the buses are dead and the other is every 20 minutes and same half the buses are dead. You could have a breadvan running the services out of Newcastle on the X45/X46 and Durham North on the X21 in the morning and in late in the evening.

Agreed with the 53/54 though. The 93/94 will be up there aswell imo.

(23 Apr 2022, 10:29 am)Storx wrote You could have a breadvan running the services out of Newcastle on the X45/X46 and Durham North on the X21 in the morning and in late in the evening.

Agreed with the 53/54 though. The 93/94 will be up there aswell imo.

The late evening X45 (11.35pm) is known to get good passenger numbers. Arriva could seriously do with adding later services to Blyth & Ashington nearer or just after 11.30pm. My friend who lives in the Cramlington area had to end up getting the slow 52 home after the Wolves match as the queue for the 11.04pm 43 and 11.10pm X11 looked like they'd be full buses meaning if he let the 52 go in favour of the 43/X11, he could've ended up out of pocket for a taxi. I don't know if Arriva would've had 'hot-spares' ready to pick up any passengers left behind that night though?

(23 Apr 2022, 10:53 am)L469 YVK wrote The late evening X45 (11.35pm) is known to get good passenger numbers. Arriva could seriously do with adding later services to Blyth & Ashington nearer or just after 11.30pm. My friend who lives in the Cramlington area had to end up getting the slow 52 home after the Wolves match as the queue for the 11.04pm 43 and 11.10pm X11 looked like they'd be full buses meaning if he let the 52 go in favour of the 43/X11, he could've ended up out of pocket for a taxi. I don't know if Arriva would've had 'hot-spares' ready to pick up any passengers left behind that night though?

Think you misread that there, the evenings ones were in towards Newcastle. Half of them are dead. I know the Arriva expresses are really bad for it. Your lucky if 4 people get off all the last expresses coming into Newcastle and it's the same throughout the whole route pretty much. Compare that to say the 20, 21, 53, 54, 56, 93, 94, 306, 308 etc which pick up people at both ends because of Tynemouth, Whitley Bay, Sunderland, Durham, Chester Le Street, Concord, Low Fell which have people at night aswell or are loop services.

It's why the Arriva services will struggle in the evening imo as you need to pretty much half the out loads not to mention keeping the depot open an extra hour etc.

(23 Apr 2022, 7:32 am)Rob44 wrote I was on the 53 to town yesterday at midday and it was choca.  I see v514dft has it in their list but im surprised not in many more?  I remember when northumbria/arriva went up against GNE on this route all those years back...hardly worth running a direct competition route on one of your competitors least profitable/busy services?

I wonder if the size/capacity of the vehicle has a bearing on how popular a service is viewed? 
For example, if there were deckers on the 53/54, it may not be perceived to be popular cos the loads would be more evenly distributed across the vehicle.

(23 Apr 2022, 11:42 am)Andreos1 wrote I wonder if the size/capacity of the vehicle has a bearing on how popular a service is viewed? 
For example, if there were deckers on the 53/54, it may not be perceived to be popular cos the loads would be more evenly distributed across the vehicle.

Whenever I see the 54/53,its either quiet or rammed. Its never just okay e.g 10-15 people on it. For me there is either 30+ or less than 5.

(23 Apr 2022, 11:42 am)Andreos1 wrote I wonder if the size/capacity of the vehicle has a bearing on how popular a service is viewed? 
For example, if there were deckers on the 53/54, it may not be perceived to be popular cos the loads would be more evenly distributed across the vehicle.

I was thinking the same thing funnily enough.

Is a bus that runs every 30 minutes with an average of 30 passengers per journey more popular than a service that runs every 15 minutes with an average of 16 passengers per journey?

Over an hour, one will carry 60 passengers and the other will carry 64. 

Now let's say the first service runs with a minibus with say, 27 seats and 14 standees; and the second service is a decker with with 70 seats and 14 standees. The first bus will look busier, hence more popular, as it will be at almost full capacity. Perception can be skew the truth in these cases.

(23 Apr 2022, 11:51 am)MurdnunoC wrote I was thinking the same thing funnily enough.

Is a bus that runs every 30 minutes with an average of 30 passengers per journey more popular than a service that runs every 15 minutes with an average of 16 passengers per journey?

Over an hour, one will carry 60 passengers and the other will carry 64. 

Now let's say the first service runs with a minibus with say, 27 seats and 14 standees; and the second service is a decker with with 70 seats and 14 standees. The first bus will look busier, hence more popular, as it will be at almost full capacity. Perception can be skew the truth in these cases.

I do this, for example when I see at Concord / Nissan the 50/56, when its a streetlite it looks rammed, but 15 and 30 mins later it would be a double decker and look dead.

(23 Apr 2022, 11:42 am)Andreos1 wrote I wonder if the size/capacity of the vehicle has a bearing on how popular a service is viewed? 
For example, if there were deckers on the 53/54, it may not be perceived to be popular cos the loads would be more evenly distributed across the vehicle.

good point. the electric buses are not the biggest. but when i got off at monument it emptied then filled  back up again so definaTLEY busier than my normal 29/28a bus i get !

Its funny deckers on the 53/54 has been mentioned a few times,theres photos from PTE days that the 53/54 used to be operated by deckers along with the old 51/52

(23 Apr 2022, 1:38 pm)V514DFT wrote Its funny deckers on the 53/54 has been mentioned a few times,theres photos from PTE days that the 53/54 used to be operated by deckers along with the old 51/52

Both operated by deckers well beyond the PTE days and in to privatisation.

(23 Apr 2022, 1:38 pm)V514DFT wrote Its funny deckers on the 53/54 has been mentioned a few times,theres photos from PTE days that the 53/54 used to be operated by deckers along with the old 51/52

Gateshead and District had few single deckers in the seventies, none in the sixties so everything was double deck. The 53/54 had the first dual door double deckers, converted ‘F’ registered Atlanteans from the Northern fleet.

In PTE days most services were allocated double deckers except ones with low bridges on them like the 194 and 638.

When it comes to the Summer the 50 gets really packed. I remember using it and after Concord it would be full. After years of saying it that the 50 needs deckers for the summer the Streetdecks will finally give some space

(24 Apr 2022, 4:30 pm)KingSlayerRBLX wrote When it comes to the Summer the 50 gets really packed. I remember using it and after Concord it would be full. After years of saying it that the 50 needs deckers for the summer the Streetdecks will finally give some space

imo The 50 should be standlone for this reason. However what would you change with the 26.

I think 9>5>26>26>5>9 would be well over the driving hours.

It would be around 5 hours 20 mins - which is duable but any delay would be bad