(13 May 2022, 9:09 pm)Aaron21 wrote Can't wait for the day these changes come into play.

The twitter & Facebook is gonna be fun to read. I remember at one point during the North Tyneside changes they turned comments off.

Can't wait for the news articles that say. MASS LOSS OF SERVICES TO GATESHEAD AREAS

Can’t wait for Martin Gannons response…the amount of photo ops and hand shaking he’s done with MG of late, I’ll assume he’ll just blame the Tories and ignore his woeful road network, poor town planning and mass build of new builds for car owners.

I guess my concern is we’re seeing services judged on a metric of old peak times, old travel patterns and routes that aside the number and the bus paint have barely changed since the 80s.

(13 May 2022, 9:37 pm)Ambassador wrote Can’t wait for Martin Gannons response…the amount of photo ops and hand shaking he’s done with MG of late, I’ll assume he’ll just blame the Tories and ignore his woeful road network, poor town planning and mass build of new builds for car owners.

I guess my concern is we’re seeing services judged on a metric of old peak times, old travel patterns and routes that aside the number and the bus paint have barely changed since the 80s.

Metrics in their control vs those that aren't.
But finger pointing and bus painting... Oh and bus lanes and priority measures.

I'd have been sacked.

I'm guessing part of these changes will be to accommodate the new electric buses coming in July?

(13 May 2022, 6:02 pm)DeltaMan wrote To be fair, the "Market Analysis Project"
occured during the NBC days

Indeed, MAP of the late 70s/early 80s reset the bus network to reflect the patronage decline that had taken place over the previous 20-30 years, leaving many villages without buses or with much reduced services.

Would changes likely mean that the section of the 10A between Rockwood Hill & Blackhall Mill will go unless Gateshead Council / Nexus step in? Also bearing in mind that only 15x B9TLs were repainted.

From the document I've seen, the cuts are sown to low passenger use and in nearly all instances they are going begging to the relevant local authority and/or Nexus for money. The amount of recent reprints that have been carried out and several of those are at risk of going completely. I believe a public statement is coming out next week and the staff feedback is already live. For me, this is the point where I'd seriously reconsider my stance on route branding and vehicle painting and only have the odd branded service.

(14 May 2022, 10:59 am)morritt89 wrote From the document I've seen, the cuts are sown to low passenger use and in nearly all instances they are going begging to the relevant local authority and/or Nexus for money. The amount of recent reprints that have been carried out and several of those are at risk of going completely. I believe a public statement is coming out next week and the staff feedback is already live. For me, this is the point where I'd seriously reconsider my stance on route branding and vehicle painting and only have the odd branded service.

From GNE or Nexus? - hopefully it'll be a consultation of some sort?

I agree, maybe those drivers who turned around and said they're wasting money on repainting buses instead of giving drivers a decent wage... are actually right? - after all the Sunderland repaints - now looks like half will either be withdrawn or repainted AGAIN.

(14 May 2022, 10:59 am)morritt89 wrote From the document I've seen, the cuts are sown to low passenger use and in nearly all instances they are going begging to the relevant local authority and/or Nexus for money. The amount of recent reprints that have been carried out and several of those are at risk of going completely. I believe a public statement is coming out next week and the staff feedback is already live. For me, this is the point where I'd seriously reconsider my stance on route branding and vehicle painting and only have the odd branded service.

Are you able to share any notable ones?

I wonder if the X21 extension to West Auckland and the 21 extension to Brandon will survive. The numbers seem to be relatively good these days but they're an easy target with them basically duplicating Arriva services

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MG has already taken the opinion that buses are "mass transport" (and that some places would lose out because of that) and seems to be pushing that agenda.

I'd expect to see routes taken out of estates, villages etc and remaining on A and B roads.

May as well get ahead of the game and start burning off the Bus Lane markings to be able to handle the influx of cars this'll put on the roads.

(14 May 2022, 11:06 am)Michael wrote From GNE or Nexus? - hopefully it'll be a consultation of some sort?

I agree, maybe those drivers who turned around and said they're wasting money on repainting buses instead of giving drivers a decent wage... are actually right? - after all the Sunderland repaints - now looks like half will either be withdrawn or repainted AGAIN.

They haven't even finished them....


Will this be the final nail in the coffin off the X22. 

And push back services which could do with a repaint & interior done. The S&D Brand was a failure before it started.

(14 May 2022, 11:28 am)Unber43 wrote They haven't even finished them....


Will this be the final nail in the coffin off the X22. 

And push back services which could do with a repaint & interior done. The S&D Brand was a failure before it started.

Aye that's true... doubt these will happen now, be interesting to see how many buses will need repainted after these changes are released. if these are mass changes, I would hope they would be out at least a 3-4 weeks before they happen, to give people time to re-arrange their travel plans.

(14 May 2022, 11:36 am)Michael wrote Aye that's true... doubt these will happen now, be interesting to see how many buses will need repainted after these changes are released. if these are mass changes, I would hope they would be out at least a 3-4 weeks before they happen, to give people time to re-arrange their travel plans.

Well there were some citaro modifications being done.

Is there a full list of changes??

(13 May 2022, 6:09 pm)deanmachine wrote Loads of changes and services being cut in the rest of Tyne & Wear (south of the Tyne), and Durham than just the ones mentioned so far. Makes the painting look like a bit of a waste of time.

Absolutely, and there are some big cuts coming, no amount of chatter on forums will change that.

(13 May 2022, 6:08 pm)Unber43 wrote I would also say 10/10A/10B aswell. 
X5/X15 also run with fresh air, so does the 16 from Consett to Stanley. 

X45/46/47/47A when ever I get them outside of the peak times they are dead. You could go out on a limb a say services such as the 60/53/54/20 are much more worth deckers or upgrades (granted 53/54 just been updated) rather then the services you listed.

X5/15 along with the 16 serve too many places that need a bus service. I live on the route X5/15 and unfortunately I have to agree that it can be very thin on ground at times but during the week and at peak deckers are full and standing

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(14 May 2022, 3:16 pm)DRS37419 wrote X5/15 along with the 16 serve too many places that need a bus service. I live on the route X5/15 and unfortunately I have to agree that it can be very thin on ground at times but during the week and at peak deckers are full and standing

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Its whether having deckers on it all the time is making a profit. 

I know Consett - Durham after 6pm is very dead, but Consett-Durham can get quite busy especially on a Friday night.

I once got on the 15:00 from Durham to Consett, lets say I will never be making that mistake again.

(14 May 2022, 3:19 pm)Unber43 wrote Its whether having deckers on it all the time is making a profit. 

I know Consett - Durham after 6pm is very dead, but Consett-Durham can get quite busy especially on a Friday night.

I once got on the 15:00 from Durham to Consett, lets say I will never be making that mistake again.

You see half deckers half singles would work well in my opinion. Deckers on a Saturday/Sunday would work very well in my opinion but through the week needs to be looked at for all the times. Even then quite a few times on route X45/46 have warranted deckers but others I've had to stand.

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(14 May 2022, 3:21 pm)DRS37419 wrote You see half deckers half singles would work well in my opinion. Deckers on a Saturday/Sunday would work very well in my opinion but through the week needs to be looked at for all the times. Even then quite a few times on route X45/46 have warranted deckers but others I've had to stand.

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You could even say no routes really need deckers out of peak time other than X10.


The thing is 50/50 would work if they were timetabled correctly and if a double decker (busy) time was cancelled leaving them all to load onto a single.

(14 May 2022, 3:21 pm)DRS37419 wrote You see half deckers half singles would work well in my opinion. Deckers on a Saturday/Sunday would work very well in my opinion but through the week needs to be looked at for all the times. Even then quite a few times on route X45/46 have warranted deckers but others I've had to stand.

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Can't see the X5/X15 going anywhere it's quite a strong route really. It's the Venture network that's weak around there and that's about it and they've been generally chipping away with it anyway. The V3 isn't really needed (mostly replaced by the 47/47A) it's just the V1/V2 that's left. Consett is similar to Blyth and Ashington imo and there's been very few cuts around here really. 

Its Sunderland (Washington included) / Dunston / East Durham where the weak routes are imo.

(14 May 2022, 3:29 pm)Unber43 wrote You could even say no routes really need deckers out of peak time other than X10.


The thing is 50/50 would work if they were timetabled correctly and if a double decker (busy) time was cancelled leaving them all to load onto a single.

It's a very tough subject like! Doesn't always match up to what you see!

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(14 May 2022, 3:36 pm)Storx wrote Can't see the X5/X15 going anywhere it's quite a strong route really. It's the Venture network that's weak around there and that's about it and they've been generally chipping away with it anyway. The V3 isn't really needed (mostly replaced by the 47/47A) it's just the V1/V2 that's left. Consett is similar to Blyth and Ashington imo and there's been very few cuts around here really. 

Its Sunderland (Washington included) / Dunston / East Durham where the weak routes are imo.

 Realistically what is there left of Consett to put routes too? 

East Durham are all contracted. I don't know imo i would make sense for GNE to take over Arriva 22/24/23, as they operate the local services around there and it would be the best for the passengers. 

Washington its the pinks but really what more can they do, I honestly think the massive suggestions from another user to integrate the pinks services into 2/2A & 8 would work wonders to provide more links.

(14 May 2022, 3:36 pm)Storx wrote Can't see the X5/X15 going anywhere it's quite a strong route really. It's the Venture network that's weak around there and that's about it and they've been generally chipping away with it anyway. The V3 isn't really needed (mostly replaced by the 47/47A) it's just the V1/V2 that's left. Consett is similar to Blyth and Ashington imo and there's been very few cuts around here really. 

Its Sunderland (Washington included) / Dunston / East Durham where the weak routes are imo.

It's been weak for a while! People have to make the right decisions about what stays and what goes!

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(14 May 2022, 3:41 pm)Unber43 wrote  Realistically what is there left of Consett to put routes too? 

East Durham are all contracted. I don't know imo i would make sense for GNE to take over Arriva 22/24/23, as they operate the local services around there and it would be the best for the passengers. 

Washington its the pinks but really what more can they do, I honestly think the massive suggestions from another user to integrate the pinks services into 2/2A & 8 would work wonders to provide more links.

Nothing really! The Dene is difficult to get a decker round so even if an hourly service to and from the Dene under contract the rest can be covered by deckers and are just the frequency that bothers people

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(14 May 2022, 3:42 pm)DRS37419 wrote It's been weak for a while! People have to make the right decisions about what stays and what goes!

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Nothing really! The Dene is difficult to get a decker round so even if an hourly service to and from the Dene under contract the rest can be covered by deckers and are just the frequency that bothers people

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Maybe if people used it more the frequency may increase. 

But they just decreased the X45/46 whcih imo was a wrong move.

Malarky's suggestion had some amazing ideas, some could do with a bit of tweaking. But they were good, especially the 327 one, how that has never been an idea before I will never know.

(14 May 2022, 3:41 pm)Unber43 wrote  Realistically what is there left of Consett to put routes too? 

East Durham are all contracted. I don't know imo i would make sense for GNE to take over Arriva 22/24/23, as they operate the local services around there and it would be the best for the passengers. 

Washington its the pinks but really what more can they do, I honestly think the massive suggestions from another user to integrate the pinks services into 2/2A & 8 would work wonders to provide more links.

I’m sure that the east Durham services were contracted but a few years ago there were going to lose the contracts to Arriva as there must of put a lower bid in and GNE decided to take them on commercially.

About the 22/23/24 ,GNE should purchase these services from Arriva, at present there’s buses broken down along the route and buses not running, last week there was a 24 broken down at Oakerside and passengers had to wait for the next bus which was heavily delayed, Arriva got rid of the local services and let the out of town buses to do the routes instead .


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(14 May 2022, 4:04 pm)cbma06 wrote I’m sure that the east Durham services were contracted but a few years ago there were going to lose the contracts to Arriva as there must of put a lower bid in and GNE decided to take them on commercially.

About the 22/23/24 ,GNE should purchase these services from Arriva, at present there’s buses broken down along the route and buses not running, last week there was a 24 broken down at Oakerside and passengers had to wait for the next bus which was heavily delayed, Arriva got rid of the local services and let the out of town buses to do the routes instead .


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Tbh GNE should just take over Arriva's Durham Depot.

I'll stick to buses I can comment on.

X72: if 6 is reduced to hourly, then X72: Could become a 7, be restored to the Metrocentre and operate in combo with the 6. That may increase patronage. Durham County Council would probably ensure some form of service continues with it.

16: The Consett to Stanley stretch sees passengers between Leadgate and Consett, and also gathers passengers from Dipton onwards towards Stanley. Its used morning and evening by New College pupils. I don't see that changing, though it might be truncated to Consett and not go to Tesco. Another alternative is it might get the Castleside extension back off the 78 and that truncated to Consett.

But I do think the Tesco extension is done for.

X30 and X31: I'd guess at half hourly in future with one bus going via Gateshead. That was just plain odd, breaking the Gateshead link. The bus sees decent loading at commuter times.

X70 / X71: One of these switched via Whickham and Dunston to replace and X30 or X31 rerouted via Gateshead. How the timings would be adjusted, heavens knows.

However, I agree Sunniside will have to settle for four buses per hour and not six to Newcastle.

Evenings and Sundays. X30 and X31 abandoned, 6 and 7 continue to operate. 7 diverted to Burnopfield from Tanfield on evening as X72 is now.

(14 May 2022, 4:07 pm)Unber43 wrote Tbh GNE should just take over Arriva's Durham Depot.

I don't really want to comment on this. I have no objections to Arriva! They run services and people get there. The buses aren't always the nicest and the engineering isn't the best but they do the job

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(14 May 2022, 4:12 pm)DRS37419 wrote I don't really want to comment on this. I have no objections to Arriva! They run services and people get there. The buses aren't always the nicest and the engineering isn't the best but they do the job

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It cost me £6 to get to Durham from Sunderland. 

Arriva sell ridiculously priced tickets when I can pay £1.20 on GNE. And get a nicer bus and charge my phone rather being stuck on a old rattly awful leaking solo.

(14 May 2022, 4:11 pm)DH9 wrote I'll stick to buses I can comment on.

X72: if 6 is reduced to hourly, then X72: Could become a 7, be restored to the Metrocentre and operate in combo with the 6.  That may increase patronage.  Durham County Council would probably ensure some form of service continues with it.

16: The Consett to Stanley stretch sees passengers between Leadgate and Consett, and also gathers passengers from Dipton onwards towards Stanley.  Its used morning and evening by New College pupils.  I don't see that changing, though it might be truncated to Consett and not go to Tesco.  Another alternative is it might get the Castleside extension back off the 78 and that truncated to Consett.

But I do think the Tesco extension is done for.

X30 and X31: I'd guess at half hourly in future with one bus going via Gateshead.  That was just plain odd, breaking the Gateshead link.  The bus sees decent loading at commuter times.

X70 / X71: One of these switched via Whickham and Dunston to replace and X30 or X31 rerouted via Gateshead.  How the timings would be adjusted, heavens knows.

However, I agree Sunniside will have to settle for four buses per hour and not six to Newcastle.

Evenings and Sundays.  X30 and X31 abandoned, 6 and 7 continue to operate.  7 diverted to Burnopfield from Tanfield on evening as X72 is now.

Could rename it the 6A rather than the 7.