(29 May 2022, 12:30 pm)Andreos1 wrote Add that to those who might use a 69, 25 or 28 to connect to the 21.

I bet that such passengers are few and far between.

Assuming that the local authorities provide some sort of replacement service, passengers will still be able to connect.

I'm sure that GNE will have taken all of this into account.

(29 May 2022, 8:38 pm)busmanT wrote I bet that such passengers are few and far between.

Assuming that the local authorities provide some sort of replacement service, passengers will still be able to connect.

I'm sure that GNE will have taken all of this into account.

Not necessarily. Most Nexus services don't accept GNE commercial products, unless they're ran by GNE.

I'm wondering what options passengers on the 82 route would have, if for example if was awarded to Stagecoach? I'm sure they wouldn't want to push people towards Network One, when they only get a fraction of the revenue.

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(29 May 2022, 8:38 pm)busmanT wrote I bet that such passengers are few and far between.

Assuming that the local authorities provide some sort of replacement service, passengers will still be able to connect.

I'm sure that GNE will have taken all of this into account.

There's no certainties with any of this though. Various external influences totally out of GNE's control and if Nexus or another operator stipulate GNE tickets can't and won't be accepted - then it will no doubt affect numbers on the 21.
Where do they go from there? Make cuts to the 21 because the spokes have been removed?

(30 May 2022, 9:14 pm)Andreos1 wrote There's no certainties with any of this though. Various external influences totally out of GNE's control and if Nexus or another operator stipulate GNE tickets can't and won't be accepted - then it will no doubt affect numbers on the 21.
Where do they go from there? Make cuts to the 21 because the spokes have been removed?

Its not just the 21, you could say that for basically most of GCT operations, the R's, 37/73/342 would passenger number go up if they had GNE or SCNE running it, as they could use their tickets and their prices. 

GCT might drive people from the bus network due to there small network and no ability to connect with any of there services to other locations.

Its the same if the 82 ran by Stagecoach.

(30 May 2022, 9:25 pm)Unber43 wrote Its not just the 21, you could say that for basically most of GCT operations, the R's, 37/73/342 would passenger number go up if they had GNE or SCNE running it, as they could use their tickets and their prices. 

GCT might drive people from the bus network due to there small network and no ability to connect with any of there services to other locations.

Its the same if the 82 ran by Stagecoach.

It's very much a double edged sword. Because on the one hand operators withdrawing their services commercially and winning the contracts back themselves is a bit cheeky, but then, for example, if the 18/32/35 had all gone to GCT it could be argued that would be worse for passengers.

(30 May 2022, 9:14 pm)Andreos1 wrote There's no certainties with any of this though. Various external influences totally out of GNE's control and if Nexus or another operator stipulate GNE tickets can't and won't be accepted - then it will no doubt affect numbers on the 21.
Where do they go from there? Make cuts to the 21 because the spokes have been removed?

But the number of passengers connecting (changing buses) who have GNE only passes will probably be quite low - GNE will know how many, and have allowed for this in their proposed changes.
It's probably a lower number than it was with the single fares now being reduced - plus some passengers will already have Network One tickets and about 25-30% of passengers will have ENCTS passes.

BTW the 21 is already reduced!! WAs every 7/8 minutes CLS-Newcastle and currently only every 10 mins; similarly, the Sunday service was every 10 minutes CLS-NCL, currently every 12 mins and being reduced to every 15 mins in the consultation.

It's a shame the 21 has started to go down hill a bit, with reduced frequencies, hopefully in the future it will go back to it's every bus being full self.

(30 May 2022, 9:14 pm)Andreos1 wrote There's no certainties with any of this though. Various external influences totally out of GNE's control and if Nexus or another operator stipulate GNE tickets can't and won't be accepted - then it will no doubt affect numbers on the 21.
Where do they go from there? Make cuts to the 21 because the spokes have been removed?

I can't imagine anyone connects with the 21. The 21 is the problem imo as all the other routes compete with the 21 rather than compliment it around there.

The thing needs split up as I've mentioned a few times now like the past and serve more areas similar to the 43/44/45, 10/10A/10B, X9/X10/X11, X21/X22 and 309/310/311 which are much better routes and serve more areas.

Every single place in SE Northumberland has a direct bus to Newcastle give or a take a very few areas and at least a connection to Blyth, Cramlington, Morpeth or Ashington where you can change for all the main towns. Unless you live on Durham Road in Birtley or next door to the Galleries in Washington, the same can't be said for those and they're no different to Cramlington and Wideopen / Seaton Burn really. The network is a mess and hasn't moved forward with local services to the likes of CLS (34, 71) / Washington (82, 84, 85) etc which let's be blunt no-one wants to be. The Blyth and Cramlington town services (excluding the 58) are long gone and no-one misses them as it's better stepping out your door and going straight to Newcastle where they want to be.

(31 May 2022, 8:18 am)busmanT wrote But the number of passengers connecting (changing buses) who have GNE only passes will probably be quite low - GNE will know how many, and have allowed for this in their proposed changes.
It's probably a lower number than it was with the single fares now being reduced - plus some passengers will already have Network One tickets and about 25-30% of passengers will have ENCTS passes.

BTW the 21 is already reduced!! WAs every 7/8 minutes CLS-Newcastle and currently only every 10 mins; similarly, the Sunday service was every 10 minutes CLS-NCL, currently every 12 mins and being reduced to every 15 mins in the consultation.

If it is low and people aren't transferring between the 21 and something else, then surely that defeats the whole point of their hub & spoke model and proves it's not working? 

If it isn't low and people are transferring between the 21 and something else (assuming passengers all don't live on Durham Road or within walking distance, then maybe it will have an impact.
More of an impact than we are seeing already! 

If we use Birtley as an example - the people in Portmeads and Vigo are losing the well established 25. If they're wanting to use public transport to get to Gateshead or Newcastle, then their only other option is the 82 and then a 21. Except the 82 is going too.
The walk down to Durham Road might be OK. But the walk back is a pain and isn't an attractive alternative at all.

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(31 May 2022, 8:52 am)Storx wrote I can't imagine anyone connects with the 21. The 21 is the problem imo as all the other routes compete with the 21 rather than compliment it around there.

The thing needs split up as I've mentioned a few times now like the past and serve more areas similar to the 43/44/45, 10/10A/10B, X9/X10/X11, X21/X22 and 309/310/311 which are much better routes and serve more areas.

Every single place in SE Northumberland has a direct bus to Newcastle give or a take a very few areas and at least a connection to Blyth, Cramlington, Morpeth or Ashington where you can change for all the main towns. Unless you live on Durham Road in Birtley or next door to the Galleries in Washington, the same can't be said for those and they're no different to Cramlington and Wideopen / Seaton Burn really. The network is a mess and hasn't moved forward with local services to the likes of CLS (34, 71) / Washington (82, 84, 85) etc which let's be blunt no-one wants to be. The Blyth and Cramlington town services (excluding the 58) are long gone and no-one misses them as it's better stepping out your door and going straight to Newcastle where they want to be.

I agree the 21 is an issue and has been since they got rid of the variations that existed prior to 2006.

To be honest, I don't think the majority of the population do need or want to be in Newcastle, but GNE seem to be insistent on sending a huge chunk of their buses there and perceivering with the hub & spoke model.
Which means passengers don't have any viable alternative and a core route such as the 21 is one of their only options (excluding car or taxi).

I've not long replied to busmanT with some scenarios from Vigo and Portmeads. 
The same logic applies to places like Pelton Fell, Kibblesworth or Lamesley.
5 totally different settlements, but each with a demand of sorts to use a reliable, effective bus network that penetrates their locality and takes them to places they need to be.

Those in Ouston or Perkinsville wanting to head north or even as far as Birtley, will now need to get a 34 and head south to Chester. Adding a significant amount of time on to their journey time. But at least they have some sort of public transport alternative.

The consultation on proposed service changes finishes today.

Get your views in... wonder how long it'll be before we find out whats happening?

(31 May 2022, 8:23 am)Jack Gill wrote It's a shame the 21 has started to go down hill a bit, with reduced frequencies, hopefully in the future it will go back to it's every bus being full self.

Has it? I use it regularly in and out of Durham, and even combined with the X21, it's normally quite busy!

(31 May 2022, 9:06 am)Andreos1 wrote I agree the 21 is an issue and has been since they got rid of the variations that existed prior to 2006.

To be honest, I don't think the majority of the population do need or want to be in Newcastle, but GNE seem to be insistent on sending a huge chunk of their buses there and perceivering with the hub & spoke model.
Which means passengers don't have any viable alternative and a core route such as the 21 is one of their only options (excluding car or taxi).

I've not long replied to busmanT with some scenarios from Vigo and Portmeads. 
The same logic applies to places like Pelton Fell, Kibblesworth or Lamesley.
5 totally different settlements, but each with a demand of sorts to use a reliable, effective bus network that penetrates their locality and takes them to places they need to be.

Those in Ouston or Perkinsville wanting to head north or even as far as Birtley, will now need to get a 34 and head south to Chester. Adding a significant amount of time on to their journey time. But at least they have some sort of alternative.

Can't disagree to be honest about Newcastle to be fair but I'd imagine people would rather be there than let's say CLS with the 34 though in the wrong direction.

Like to pick one area you mentioned there you could easily split one of the 21's off at Birtley and do the 82 bus route to Washington from there (not serving the estates in Birtley). Instantly you've saved at least a bus (maybe 2) duplicating the 21 on the 25 and also gave new connections from parts of Washington to Newcastle and Low Fell to Washington direct which is slightly slower but there's no change (I'd personally take that option) and removed a bus from Birtley to CLS which is never that busy.

Heck you could then send the 50 back via Vigo Lane to give connections to South Shields and Nissan from the bottom end of Birtley.

All simple changes with negligible PVR changes (it has to be a decrease) and opens loads of new links.

(31 May 2022, 9:43 am)Adrian wrote Has it? I use it regularly in and out of Durham, and even combined with the X21, it's normally quite busy!

I suppose I am just using it at quieter times anyways, so just what I see the odd time I go on it!

(31 May 2022, 9:30 am)Michael wrote The consultation on proposed service changes finishes today.

Get your views in... wonder how long it'll be before we find out whats happening?

I don't think we'll hear anything for at least a few weeks. If they're outsourcing the analysis of the consultation, I doubt they'd even know themselves what the feedback is for at least a week.

Someone actually has to sit and read through all the responses and do a thematic analysis on it (basically pulling out all the 'important' points), which is surprisingly time consuming. Depending on how many responses they get, it could easily be a few days work. They will then have to go through all the important points that were pulled out, and see what themes are standing out. Depending on how many responses they get, this step alone could probably take a full day. 
At this point, what we would normally do is tidy it up a bit and give the preliminary findings to the client. 
We would then begin actually writing the report, depending on what the client has asked (and paid) for, it could take anywhere from a couple days to a week. Some ask for everything to be written out with quotes everywhere, others are fine with tables. 

Looking at the GNE consultation, I'd say it'd probably be a fairly easy job to do since it's essentially one question. I would obviously break down the analysis per route, and then probably break it down into positive and negative sentiments.
From experience on similar consultations (albeit in a different industry), I'd guess most of the responses will be negative, with most of those responses just being along the lines of "Don't do it" with no information on how it will affect them.

Whenni get the 29 I jump off at the cannon if a 21 is behind. I've also got the 28a to bartley to get the 21 to town so to say people dont connect to the 21 is not true. And there are more like me!

(31 May 2022, 9:06 am)Andreos1 wrote If it is low and people aren't transferring between the 21 and something else, then surely that defeats the whole point of their hub & spoke model and proves it's not working? 

If it isn't low and people are transferring between the 21 and something else (assuming passengers all don't live on Durham Road or within walking distance, then maybe it will have an impact.
More of an impact than we are seeing already! 

If we use Birtley as an example - the people in Portmeads and Vigo are losing the well established 25. If they're wanting to use public transport to get to Gateshead or Newcastle, then their only other option is the 82 and then a 21. Except the 82 is going too.
The walk down to Durham Road might be OK. But the walk back is a pain and isn't an attractive alternative at all.

---

I agree the 21 is an issue and has been since they got rid of the variations that existed prior to 2006.

To be honest, I don't think the majority of the population do need or want to be in Newcastle, but GNE seem to be insistent on sending a huge chunk of their buses there and perceivering with the hub & spoke model.
Which means passengers don't have any viable alternative and a core route such as the 21 is one of their only options (excluding car or taxi).

I've not long replied to busmanT with some scenarios from Vigo and Portmeads. 
The same logic applies to places like Pelton Fell, Kibblesworth or Lamesley.
5 totally different settlements, but each with a demand of sorts to use a reliable, effective bus network that penetrates their locality and takes them to places they need to be.

Those in Ouston or Perkinsville wanting to head north or even as far as Birtley, will now need to get a 34 and head south to Chester. Adding a significant amount of time on to their journey time. But at least they have some sort of public transport alternative.

The 28/28A and 82 might be replaced of course, with local authority financial support, (as might other routes) so passengers may still have the option of a through journey without changing, although at a lower frequency and with a different operator. I suppose we'll just have to wait about 4 weeks now until GNE/ Nexus / Durham CC announce the full details of the changes.

If the 12/12A get reduced to hourly on an evening & Sunday, could in theory the evening & Sunday X30/X72 journeys end up being run by Riverside interworking with the 6 & 12?

Would be far cheaper using StreetLites as opposed to E400MMCs and certainly compared to when the evening 6A & X30 interworked using heavy duty Mercs & Scannys.

One thing that confuses me with this consultation is for example the 39 on an evening. They're proposing to reduce it to an hourly service, but isn't it a Nexus secured service already? How can they propose to change a service that isn't there's to change? Or am I missing something?

(31 May 2022, 9:30 am)Michael wrote The consultation on proposed service changes finishes today.

Get your views in... wonder how long it'll be before we find out whats happening?

Seems like they’ve already made their mind up with some routes, the X22 for example with 3942 being repainted into corporate livery. Guess we will have to wait and see what happens with the other proposals.


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(31 May 2022, 3:15 pm)deanmachine wrote One thing that confuses me with this consultation is for example the 39 on an evening. They're proposing to reduce it to an hourly service, but isn't it a Nexus secured service already? How can they propose to change a service that isn't there's to change? Or am I missing something?

It's only after 8.30pm'ish where the subsidy kicks in so could be the few boards around 7/8pm where it could be starting from to get more buses off the road earlier.

(31 May 2022, 10:13 am)streetdeckfan wrote I don't think we'll hear anything for at least a few weeks. If they're outsourcing the analysis of the consultation, I doubt they'd even know themselves what the feedback is for at least a week.

Someone actually has to sit and read through all the responses and do a thematic analysis on it (basically pulling out all the 'important' points), which is surprisingly time consuming. Depending on how many responses they get, it could easily be a few days work. They will then have to go through all the important points that were pulled out, and see what themes are standing out. Depending on how many responses they get, this step alone could probably take a full day. 
At this point, what we would normally do is tidy it up a bit and give the preliminary findings to the client. 
We would then begin actually writing the report, depending on what the client has asked (and paid) for, it could take anywhere from a couple days to a week. Some ask for everything to be written out with quotes everywhere, others are fine with tables. 

Looking at the GNE consultation, I'd say it'd probably be a fairly easy job to do since it's essentially one question. I would obviously break down the analysis per route, and then probably break it down into positive and negative sentiments.
From experience on similar consultations (albeit in a different industry), I'd guess most of the responses will be negative, with most of those responses just being along the lines of "Don't do it" with no information on how it will affect them.

It would be interesting to see the response size and the numbers of people who are in favour vs those who aren't and then see how the company responds.

But, this is the company who are increasing the number of buses up Pelaw Bank due to passenger requests and removing 6 buses an hour through Pelton Fell despite customer feedback. So who knows what will happen!

Let's just hope passengers don't feedback on the need for a direct bus between Chester and the Metrocentre...

They say they've had "almost 9,000" responses to the consultation (although that realistically could mean as low as 8,600) so it may be a little while.
https://twitter.com/gonortheast/status/1...2124589056

(31 May 2022, 6:15 pm)TEN 6083 wrote Seems like they’ve already made their mind up with some routes, the X22 for example with 3942 being repainted into corporate livery. Guess we will have to wait and see what happens with the other proposals.

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To be fair, of all the changes, the X22 seemed fairly logical and I get why. MetroCentre is one place that has excellent connections (versus say Team Valley).

The decision to repaint and rebrand looks farcical but we're used to that with GNE now, it's just what they do. 

The whole issue with consultations is what people think vs what people do. They tend not to reach those impacted but those who might use a bus once or twice a month who see an angry facebook post on a local group and click the link. 

I'm sure GNE have made the effort to engage less tech savvy vulnerable passengers.

Without looking at the calendar there pushing it to analyse the results and give the commissior 56 days notice...

(01 Jun 2022, 11:26 am)idiot wrote Without looking at the calendar there pushing it to analyse the results and give the commissior 56 days notice...

If we assume they got 8500 responses, and spend 30 seconds reading each one, that's 71 hours (9 working days) to just read them, never mind coding them up into themes and actually analysing them.

(01 Jun 2022, 11:33 am)streetdeckfan wrote If we assume they got 8500 responses, and spend 30 seconds reading each one, that's 71 hours (9 working days) to just read them, never mind coding them up into themes and actually analysing them.

Or a days work for a team of 7 which would make more sense. It looks like it’s done on ms forms so there’s plenty of decent analytics in there already done.

data then summarised and kicked up to a higher level for review. The long part will be Nexus/DCC working a response

(01 Jun 2022, 12:52 pm)Ambassador wrote Or a days work for a team of 7 which would make more sense. It looks like it’s done on ms forms so there’s plenty of decent analytics in there already done.

data then summarised and kicked up to a higher level for review. The long part will be Nexus/DCC working a response

Very presumptuous of you to think there’s a team of seven.


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(01 Jun 2022, 2:09 pm)Dan wrote Very presumptuous of you to think there’s a team of seven.


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Draft in a leading driver or two? 

Sure Go Ahead have some decent analytic software you can push a few buttons on (if not - see if you can pay for some with leftover paint  )

(01 Jun 2022, 8:31 am)F114TML wrote They say they've had "almost 9,000" responses to the consultation (although that realistically could mean as low as 8,600) so it may be a little while.
https://twitter.com/gonortheast/status/1...2124589056

8,990 of them from members of this forum?

(01 Jun 2022, 12:52 pm)Ambassador wrote Or a days work for a team of 7 which would make more sense. It looks like it’s done on ms forms so there’s plenty of decent analytics in there already done.

data then summarised and kicked up to a higher level for review. The long part will be Nexus/DCC working a response

Not really. The bulk of the data will come from the qualitative question, which unfortunately has to be done manually
While I can't remember exactly what the survey was, from memory the quantitative questions aren't really useful on their own. I believe they were just asking for the respondent's area and which routes they would like to comment on?