Just seen this has been announced this morning that all bus fares in England will be capped at £2 for a single

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-62775639

Should be some large discounts for some passengers, be interesting to see if it ever ends or it's something that just keeps getting extended and extended.

(03 Sep 2022, 10:45 am)Storx wrote Just seen this has been announced this morning that all bus fares in England will be capped at £2 for a single

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-62775639

Should be some large discounts for some passengers, be interesting to see if it ever ends or it's something that just keeps getting extended and extended.

I want to see some positives in this, but can only see it as a 'sticking plaster'. Just like the gas/electric support. 
Ultimately, the problem isn't fixed.


I'd hope it was the start of something more positive and longer term.

(03 Sep 2022, 10:45 am)Storx wrote Just seen this has been announced this morning that all bus fares in England will be capped at £2 for a single

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-62775639

Should be some large discounts for some passengers, be interesting to see if it ever ends or it's something that just keeps getting extended and extended.

So, this is coming with support.

I wonder if GNE X10 being £2 would make it even more busier than it can be. Really GNE should push this too the moon.

(03 Sep 2022, 10:57 am)Unber43 wrote So, this is coming with support.

I wonder if GNE X10 being £2 would make it even more busier than it can be. Really GNE should push this too the moon.

Arriva have far more to gain from this initiative than Go North East.

Go North East and Stagecoach’s fares are already pretty close to this fare cap. The X10 is an exception to the rule really.


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Very eye-catching stuff. The most telling quote coming from CPT where it appears no mechanism has been established to reimburse operators

(03 Sep 2022, 12:03 pm)DeltaMan wrote Very eye-catching stuff. The most telling quote coming from CPT where it appears no mechanism has been established to reimburse operators

Because its coming straight from Grant Shapps' arse. They'll be watching the Manchester and West Yorkshire schemes and copying them.

(03 Sep 2022, 12:03 pm)DeltaMan wrote Very eye-catching stuff. The most telling quote coming from CPT where it appears no mechanism has been established to reimburse operators

What could possibly go right?

I don't know about anyone else, but this will make absolutely no difference to me. It's still going to be cheaper for me to get a day ticket than take advantage of the single tickets

A day ticket is almost always going to be cheaper if you're making connections though. If you're going direct on a single service and a day ticket is cheaper than a return or single, then something is horrifically wrong.

I can see operators creating flat fares to compensate. It's already close to the £2 mark for me to get the bus the relatively short distance to fram from the arnison centre or city centre, on GNE. Arriva is a lot cheaper, though.

(03 Sep 2022, 3:34 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I can see operators creating flat fares to compensate. It's already close to the £2 mark for me to get the bus the relatively short distance to fram from the arnison centre or city centre, on GNE. Arriva is a lot cheaper, though.

I have a feeling that Transport North East or whatever name it is this week will fund it beyond March personally if they see growth from their funds somewhere. Similar to what's happened in West Yorkshire and Manchester. I believe there was plans already to do it anyway at some point.

No political reason why Somerset cap is £1 and not £2...

(05 Sep 2022, 2:07 pm)54APhotography wrote No political reason why Somerset cap is £1 and not £2...

The cap in Somerset isn't/won't be £1. It'll be the same £2 as everyone else.

The County Council are funding the £1 fare for the Taunton Park & Ride initially and looking at introducing it on some other routes. It's likely coming from the £11.9m they were awarded for their Bus Service Improvement Plan, as one of their proposals was a 'Reduced flat fare ‘£1 around town’ trials across Somerset town networks'

It's really not sustainable. Neither is the £2 cap. Not unless the Govt have a huge change of heart and properly fund buses. If they and others are going to burn money like this, they may as well start swinging that axe now.

(05 Sep 2022, 4:47 pm)Adrian wrote The cap in Somerset isn't/won't be £1. It'll be the same £2 as everyone else.

The County Council are funding the £1 fare for the Taunton Park & Ride initially and looking at introducing it on some other routes. It's likely coming from the £11.9m they were awarded for their Bus Service Improvement Plan, as one of their proposals was a 'Reduced flat fare ‘£1 around town’ trials across Somerset town networks'

It's really not sustainable. Neither is the £2 cap. Not unless the Govt have a huge change of heart and properly fund buses. If they and others are going to burn money like this, they may as well start swinging that axe now.

BBC reported the £1 as the flat single fare throughout Somerset this morning, not surprised if they didn't confirm that before whacking it on their web upload. 
I can't see it working, cap initiatives rarely do, and for three months it may prove popular, but if the bus you go for is cancelled, immediately it loses the attraction. A quick look over the plethora of cancellations today offers little hope of any stability during the promotional period. 

As you say, a clear and permanent strategy is needed, however with this cabal in power, there are no long term policies towards public transport...

IMO, if you're going to subsidise bus fares down to £1 or £2, then at that point you might as well just make them free.

(05 Sep 2022, 5:35 pm)streetdeckfan wrote IMO, if you're going to subsidise bus fares down to £1 or £2, then at that point you might as well just make them free.

Or you could just give companies free diesel / electric power.

Because if say 20 people get on at £2, thats £40, drivers salary & bus maintenance + backroom staff.*

* if the route is an hour

(05 Sep 2022, 5:35 pm)streetdeckfan wrote IMO, if you're going to subsidise bus fares down to £1 or £2, then at that point you might as well just make them free.

I disagree with this like.  Those OAPs who put there hand out for the bus, it sops.  Engine ideating, they get on sit down then immediately ring the bell to get off at the next stop...... they would all of a sudden find the ability to walk to 100 metres i bet if they had to pay. Nowt should be free

(05 Sep 2022, 5:35 pm)streetdeckfan wrote IMO, if you're going to subsidise bus fares down to £1 or £2, then at that point you might as well just make them free.

Personally flat rates don't work outside urban areas as the urban fares aren't particular cheap if it's Low Fell to Gateshead for example but outside of it, it's stupidly cheap.

It should be based on milage imo, £1.00 + 10p per mile with a maximum fare of £4.50 or something along those lines with zoned caps, similar to oyster so it's all automatically calculated once some form smart card is done.

Journey, Single (Return)
Byker to Newcastle, £1.20 (£1.80)
Low Fell to Newcastle, £1.50 (£2.75)
Cramlington to Newcastle, £2.00 (£3.00)
Consett to Newcastle, £2.50 (£3.75)
Ashington to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Durham to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Berwick to Newcastle, £4.50 (£6.75)

They all seem fair fares to me and more reasonable.

(05 Sep 2022, 6:57 pm)Storx wrote Personally flat rates don't work outside urban areas as the urban fares aren't particular cheap if it's Low Fell to Gateshead for example but outside of it, it's stupidly cheap.

It should be based on milage imo, £1.00 + 10p per mile with a maximum fare of £4.50 or something along those lines with zoned caps, similar to oyster so it's all automatically calculated once some form smart card is done.

Journey, Single (Return)
Byker to Newcastle, £1.20 (£1.80)
Low Fell to Newcastle, £1.50 (£2.75)
Cramlington to Newcastle, £2.00 (£3.00)
Consett to Newcastle, £2.50 (£3.75)
Ashington to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Durham to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Berwick to Newcastle, £4.50 (£6.75)

They all seem fair fares to me and more reasonable.

Totally agree, my point was more that if you're spending that much money subsidising the fares, you might as well just subsidise the lot.

(05 Sep 2022, 7:05 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Totally agree, my point was more that if you're spending that much money subsidising the fares, you might as well just subsidise the lot.

Yeah can't disagree not to mention the backlash when the likes of Arriva will have when the fares suddenly triple overnight when it eventually ends as it's impossible for them to keep the fares.

Just throws them under the bus imo, not to mention the issue of the likes of the X10/X15/X18 filled up with cheap fare punters who'll be gone when it does go back up causing capacity problems.

(05 Sep 2022, 6:57 pm)Storx wrote Personally flat rates don't work outside urban areas as the urban fares aren't particular cheap if it's Low Fell to Gateshead for example but outside of it, it's stupidly cheap.

It should be based on milage imo, £1.00 + 10p per mile with a maximum fare of £4.50 or something along those lines with zoned caps, similar to oyster so it's all automatically calculated once some form smart card is done.

Journey, Single (Return)
Byker to Newcastle, £1.20 (£1.80)
Low Fell to Newcastle, £1.50 (£2.75)
Cramlington to Newcastle, £2.00 (£3.00)
Consett to Newcastle, £2.50 (£3.75)
Ashington to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Durham to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Berwick to Newcastle, £4.50 (£6.75)

They all seem fair fares to me and more reasonable

For the zones you could have the tap-on tap-off system which the 53/54 & QuayLinks have

(05 Sep 2022, 7:12 pm)Unber43 wrote For the zones you could have the tap-on tap-off system which the 53/54 & QuayLinks have

Wouldn't be a bad idea. Using Pop at first would probably be better / easier though. It can pretty much do everything already bar the capping (you can pay using it) so arguably would be easier to implement. Not sure how hard it would be to implement caps though. 

Whereas the Ticketer system would take awhile to implement and it caps should be multi operator imo. Not to mention Stagecoach don't use them at all.

(05 Sep 2022, 5:29 pm)54APhotography wrote BBC reported the £1 as the flat single fare throughout Somerset this morning, not surprised if they didn't confirm that before whacking it on their web upload. 
I can't see it working, cap initiatives rarely do, and for three months it may prove popular, but if the bus you go for is cancelled, immediately it loses the attraction. A quick look over the plethora of cancellations today offers little hope of any stability during the promotional period. 

As you say, a clear and permanent strategy is needed, however with this cabal in power, there are no long term policies towards public transport...

Yeah, and that's the big problem at the minute. GNE were running really (and some say too) cheap fares last Summer and into this year, but it was against a backdrop of the most horrendous reliability issues that most of us have ever seen outside of industrial action.

The fares could be 20p, 50p, whatever... but if people turn up to use a service and are inconvenienced by it, then it'll be a long time before they ever try again, if they have other options available.

(05 Sep 2022, 5:51 pm)Rob44 wrote I disagree with this like.  Those OAPs who put there hand out for the bus, it sops.  Engine ideating, they get on sit down then immediately ring the bell to get off at the next stop...... they would all of a sudden find the ability to walk to 100 metres i bet if they had to pay. Nowt should be free

I've often had conflicted views on this, but the only reason we tend to complain about it, is because the model of reimbursement has never been right. Less so after fuel duty rebate was replaced with BSOG.

Ultimately we should be widening access to public transport, in a similar vein to what the SNP have introduced in Scotland for Under 22s. But like everything else, it needs proper Government funding.

(05 Sep 2022, 6:57 pm)Storx wrote Personally flat rates don't work outside urban areas as the urban fares aren't particular cheap if it's Low Fell to Gateshead for example but outside of it, it's stupidly cheap.

It should be based on milage imo, £1.00 + 10p per mile with a maximum fare of £4.50 or something along those lines with zoned caps, similar to oyster so it's all automatically calculated once some form smart card is done.

Journey, Single (Return)
Byker to Newcastle, £1.20 (£1.80)
Low Fell to Newcastle, £1.50 (£2.75)
Cramlington to Newcastle, £2.00 (£3.00)
Consett to Newcastle, £2.50 (£3.75)
Ashington to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Durham to Newcastle, £3.00 (£4.50)
Berwick to Newcastle, £4.50 (£6.75)

They all seem fair fares to me and more reasonable.

Single journey caps are useless with a hub and spoke model too. What should have been introduced here, if anything, is a £2 hopper fare. Because if I wanted to go from say Low Fell to the Metrocentre, it's still going to be £4 (or £8 return). By which point I'd have been daft not to use the £4.20 day ticket.

I largely agree with a mileage-based system too, because it also resolves the lack of short-hop fares that are available.

(05 Sep 2022, 7:50 pm)Storx wrote Wouldn't be a bad idea. Using Pop at first would probably be better / easier though. It can pretty much do everything already bar the capping (you can pay using it) so arguably would be easier to implement. Not sure how hard it would be to implement caps though. 

Whereas the Ticketer system would take awhile to implement and it caps should be multi operator imo. Not to mention Stagecoach don't use them at all.

It wouldn't take a while to implement with Ticketer. The technology already exists; you have mentioned Pop, which is recognised and can be used on all buses to pay for single, return or day tickets. Despite Stagecoach using Vix ETMs against the tide of everyone else moving to Ticketer.

I may be wrong here, but I'd say the barrier is the governance of any scheme. If the operators can't agree on a basis to implement it, then it'll never happen. Obviously the BSIP had visions of that becoming a reality, but we'll have to see what TNE have submitted to the Government in terms of how they're going to spend the pittance received.

(05 Sep 2022, 8:36 pm)Adrian wrote Single journey caps are useless with a hub and spoke model too. What should have been introduced here, if anything, is a £2 hopper fare. Because if I wanted to go from say Low Fell to the Metrocentre, it's still going to be £4 (or £8 return). By which point I'd have been daft not to use the £4.20 day ticket.

I largely agree with a mileage-based system too, because it also resolves the lack of short-hop fares that are available.

Yeah totally agreed about the hub and spoke. It just shows how stupid it is that someone from Low Fell can have a day trip to Middlesbrough, Teesside Park, Durham and the Arnison cheaper than a trip to the Metro Centre or Team Valley.

(05 Sep 2022, 8:41 pm)Adrian wrote It wouldn't take a while to implement with Ticketer. The technology already exists; you have mentioned Pop, which is recognised and can be used on all buses to pay for single, return or day tickets. Despite Stagecoach using Vix ETMs against the tide of everyone else moving to Ticketer.

I may be wrong here, but I'd say the barrier is the governance of any scheme. If the operators can't agree on a basis to implement it, then it'll never happen. Obviously the BSIP had visions of that becoming a reality, but we'll have to see what TNE have submitted to the Government in terms of how they're going to spend the pittance received.

Yeah also agreed, it's why I think the Pop would be the better option. I know this is a bit off topic now but why on earth Network One still exists is a mystery to me. It should've been absorbed into Pop brand ages ago imo with the ability to buy them on the Pop website or using the app, especially since there's no way to get them without using one of the big 3. There's too many weekly tickets and it's confusing as hell GNE Tickets (with overlaps (Gateshead Local / Buzz Zones / Regional etc)), Arriva Tickets (with overlaps (Triple Tickets / Coastliner / Regional etc)), Megarider, Pop, Metro Season, Smart Zones, Network One - it's no wonder the average punter is confused.

Agreed though, the lack of someone to manage it is the biggest problem, we need one body like TFL not the current mess of: Nexus, NEBus, Transport North East, NECA, Durham Council, Northumberland Council etc we have atm.

(05 Sep 2022, 8:36 pm)Adrian wrote Yeah, and that's the big problem at the minute. GNE were running really (and some say too) cheap fares last Summer and into this year, but it was against a backdrop of the most horrendous reliability issues that most of us have ever seen outside of industrial action.

The fares could be 20p, 50p, whatever... but if people turn up to use a service and are inconvenienced by it, then it'll be a long time before they ever try again, if they have other options available.

I don't get the bus to work even though I get it free. And that's simply because of the fact the 61 now runs at rather inconvenient times for getting there - in fact I just looked at my pre-July 24th timetable for it, and the timings are much more convenient, and I don't even mind getting another bus or the 10-15 minute walk to get from the city centre to the depot. Also 3 of the 4 times I actually did make the effort to get the bus, I ended up driving into work because it didn't even show up! (In fairness, one of those times was delays incurred due to the A19 being shut, but the cancellation didn't appear on twitter until I was getting in my car - some 20 minutes after it was due)

i WAS getting the bus as it worked out cheaper even though i had a 50 minute wait between buses on the way home meaning i would have been back at 715 or earlier in the car but not till 830 on the bus, but now with the changes it wont be cheaper using the bus so back to the car i go

(05 Sep 2022, 4:47 pm)Adrian wrote The cap in Somerset isn't/won't be £1. It'll be the same £2 as everyone else.

The County Council are funding the £1 fare for the Taunton Park & Ride initially and looking at introducing it on some other routes. It's likely coming from the £11.9m they were awarded for their Bus Service Improvement Plan, as one of their proposals was a 'Reduced flat fare ‘£1 around town’ trials across Somerset town networks'

It's really not sustainable. Neither is the £2 cap. Not unless the Govt have a huge change of heart and properly fund buses. If they and others are going to burn money like this, they may as well start swinging that axe now.

For the last year, the Taunton Park & Ride has actually been running free of charge owing to some major roadworks affecting this and other routes with diversions in place, last I could see as an update was when fares are reintroduced is for £1 singles and £2 returns from an article published last month. Supposedly whilst free of charge, the numbers on the service did increase, interesting to see how things will change with fares again on this service.

(06 Sep 2022, 3:04 pm)F114TML wrote I don't get the bus to work even though I get it free. And that's simply because of the fact the 61 now runs at rather inconvenient times for getting there - in fact I just looked at my pre-July 24th timetable for it, and the timings are much more convenient, and I don't even mind getting another bus or the 10-15 minute walk to get from the city centre to the depot. Also 3 of the 4 times I actually did make the effort to get the bus, I ended up driving into work because it didn't even show up! (In fairness, one of those times was delays incurred due to the A19 being shut, but the cancellation didn't appear on twitter until I was getting in my car - some 20 minutes after it was due)

My friend goes to Sunderland College and lives in South Hetton, he has to be there an hour early because of the inconvenient times. And not to mention how busy the 61 is now with the 30 minute frequency and the cancellations. If you ask me that and the 65 should both be deckers.

At least dick turpin wor a mask. SIX POUND FOURTY PENXE for a tyne and wear day tickets from GNE!! Yet I paid just over a quid more for a day rover on friday.