(08 Oct 2022, 10:52 am)Storx wrote Disagree with this strongly, it's a total arse hole move and I wouldn't expect any driver at Deptford to be open to do it especially considering what they've just been through.

Bus drivers should be in unison over wages not bailing each others bosses out. I'm sure Stagecoach drivers would be very happy to help GNE out if the foot turned the opposite way so what's the point in ever striking as it goes nowhere. Bus drivers don't pledge an alliance to GoAhead so whether they make a loss or a £100m profit is irrelevant all they care about is the wage they pick up at the end of the day.

Never cross a picket line and that includes other companies aswell.

Not to mention Deptford don't have enough drivers to run their normal service nevermind other services.

I nearly fell off my chair, in full agreement for once with everything you've said in a post.  

You're 100% correct though. The bosses must love turning worker against worker, using them as scab labour to break a strike. Fortunately most operators are unionised and therefore it's difficult to achieve, which is why the Govt keep harping on about non-existent agency workers and why some independents strike break. 

(09 Oct 2022, 7:10 am)F114TML wrote I think a lot of drivers who are "breaking" the strike transferred from Shields with the Ecos and X34, and are still in Shields' union. I hear they've been protected in some form so technically they aren't crossing the picket line, even if they physically are.

They're strike-breaking, whether they think they are or not. They've absolutely got the right to refuse to cross the picket line, so if they do so, it's their own choice.

(11 Oct 2022, 7:51 pm)Driver9*** wrote Arriva, where I left a few months ago, are currently offering PSV licence holders £16.57 an hour to try and plug the gaps at Blyth/Ashington/Jesmond depots.

Go on the Indeed job website and look for yourself, through Kemp recruitment agency. 

They're recruiting through agencies now?!
Guessing it's a nationwide contract and they're looking for huge numbers.

(11 Oct 2022, 8:07 pm)Andreos1 wrote They're recruiting through agencies now?!
Guessing it's a nationwide contract and they're looking for huge numbers.

From what I can gather since I left Arriva, as soon as you pass your PSV test you go onto the top rate of pay (£12.65/hr). In the past you had to wait two years to get that but its a sign of the times as to how desperate they are!

(11 Oct 2022, 7:59 pm)Adrian wrote I nearly fell off my chair, in full agreement for once with everything you've said in a post.  

You're 100% correct though. The bosses must love turning worker against worker, using them as scab labour to break a strike. Fortunately most operators are unionised and therefore it's difficult to achieve, which is why the Govt keep harping on about non-existent agency workers and why some independents strike break. 


They're strike-breaking, whether they think they are or not. They've absolutely got the right to refuse to cross the picket line, so if they do so, it's their own choice.

Except the ones running the 900?

(11 Oct 2022, 8:07 pm)Andreos1 wrote They're recruiting through agencies now?!
Guessing it's a nationwide contract and they're looking for huge numbers.

Locally, Arriva and Stagecoach have been using agency staff for well over a year now, offering rates in the region of £14-16/hr (which is the only way you attract them). Of course there’s also accommodation and the agency’s margin on top of that.

Some PCV drivers are doing it off their own back rather than via agencies, and have been asking for £30/hr (or more!)

I think Stagecoach are down to very small numbers now but Arriva are still using plenty of them.


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(11 Oct 2022, 8:47 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Except the ones running the 900?

There's not a pool of agency drivers available at short-notice to strike-break. Just as there's even less to do the same on the railways.

Plus if you do get some agency workers, I'd say good luck trying to sustain a commercial service at the rate you'd end up paying for them.

I noticed while In Sunderland city centre it was like a ghost town and from Stagecoach buses I did see the drivers looked like managers white shirt and black ties

---

Any pics of other companies on the flagship routes. Haven’t the deckers gone on loan to Stockton or was I dreaming

(11 Oct 2022, 8:55 pm)Dan wrote Locally, Arriva and Stagecoach have been using agency staff for well over a year now, offering rates in the region of £14-16/hr (which is the only way you attract them). Of course there’s also accommodation and the agency’s margin on top of that.

Some PCV drivers are doing it off their own back rather than via agencies, and have been asking for £30/hr (or more!)

I think Stagecoach are down to very small numbers now but Arriva are still using plenty of them.


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Plus, if what I'm remembering from Business Management at college is correct, the agencies also charge a hefty 'finders' fee on top of the extortionate rates you end up paying to the agency staff.

(11 Oct 2022, 9:11 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Plus, if what I'm remembering from Business Management at college is correct, the agencies also charge a hefty 'finders' fee on top of the extortionate rates you end up paying to the agency staff.

In my experience they only charge a % for their margin on top of the costs (driver, accommodation and sometimes expenses).


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(11 Oct 2022, 9:11 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Plus, if what I'm remembering from Business Management at college is correct, the agencies also charge a hefty 'finders' fee on top of the extortionate rates you end up paying to the agency staff.

It can vary, depending on the arrangements in place.

There can be finders fees, retainer fees and many other things, depending on whether the agency is acting as the finder, a middle man , whether the agency is essentially employing and paying the wages or another combination, such as the one Dan mentioned earlier.

(11 Oct 2022, 9:30 pm)Andreos1 wrote It can vary, depending on the arrangements in place.

There can be finders fees, retainer fees and many other things, depending on whether the agency is acting as the finder, a middle man , whether the agency is essentially employing and paying the wages or another combination, such as the one Dan mentioned earlier.

Considering it's been 6 years since I was at college, and I only went for the lols (so put literally no effort in), I think I did alright remembering that much!

At £30 an hour, Husband would probably happily give up his day job in traffic management software. And he hates driving.

(11 Oct 2022, 7:40 pm)Unber43 wrote So they want like 

£14 an hour, plus £16 hour for overtime. Keep Dreaming. That could turn SC Wheatshef unprofitable, however the worse thing is if it does happen (not saying they don't deserve it) the other Depots are going to want that.

The other depots will get whatever Sunderland do. Both Newcastle depots and South Shields accepted 10% over 2 years and will receive the difference between the 10 and what Sunderland accept at the start of the second year of their deals.


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(11 Oct 2022, 5:05 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Seems a bit odd they haven't been using the spare deckers on the core routes in Sunderland given loadings must be tough with the reduced frequency.  19211 appears to have been in use on Shields locals inbetween scholars.

19211, 19440 and 19643 appear to have been running Sunderland's scholars boards but running out of South Shields depot.

I don't know how any driver driving SC can actually drive past the Depot and not feel shame

They likely don't care, especially if they're a white shirt from another depot. There's probably a reason they're doing it, and let's be honest, it'll be because they're not in the union, or they can't afford to do a 5 day strike (it wasn't exactly a popular decision)

(12 Oct 2022, 7:51 pm)F114TML wrote They likely don't care, especially if they're a white shirt from another depot. There's probably a reason they're doing it, and let's be honest, it'll be because they're not in the union, or they can't afford to do a 5 day strike (it wasn't exactly a popular decision)

Well I mean it's basically a 6 1/2 day strike. 

Stagecoach aren't moving, its whether another strike will happen, possibly in December/Nov, or Stagecoach accepts their requests. The latter is probably not likely. I mean they could just abandon SC and jump to Arriva or GNE leaving SC desperate and will have to pay them that

(12 Oct 2022, 7:51 pm)F114TML wrote They likely don't care, especially if they're a white shirt from another depot. There's probably a reason they're doing it, and let's be honest, it'll be because they're not in the union, or they can't afford to do a 5 day strike (it wasn't exactly a popular decision)

Believe me it was a popular decision but not one we took lightly

Clearly we've been speaking to different drivers.

The long strike isn't going down well on social media on what I've been seeing.

Of course it isn't; they're being inconvenienced because their local bus route isn't running even though they haven't stepped on a bus since about 1984

My suggestion of free services was envisioned to use novice agency staff, namely people who have never driven a bus but do have a license and can be quickly trained and passed in PSV (presumably by managers). Given a head start of 6 weeks, it's possible I think, at least for a reliable skeleton service that could be used for PR value. There's no shortage of people out there ready and willing to work for as little as £11on on a short term basis, if the promise of doing a good job was a permanent driving job at something like £12.50. Agency staff are used to working overtime and shifts at basic rate. Agencies do charge a finder's fee for short term work like this, but for a big corporate client like Stagecoach, for a special one off contract, the agency's terms could be modified to make it as cheap as possible.

I was intrigued to see an agency (Pertemps) refusing to supply staff to a striking school, so that might be an unexpected problem!

As it stands, it seems like the ordinary tactics might suffice. The strike as barely mentioned in my social circle, and more of an on so that's happening then, not with any strong support for the drivers, even though these people are occasional users of the Sunderland routes. Drivers perhaps needs to realise that the basis of this crisis is something that effects everyone. Screwing over pensioners panicking about their heating or agency workers trying to get to their poorly paid jobs at unsociable hours is not a winning strategy, especially if the support for the strike is already so weak that a good proportion of daily normal hours commuters will only be mildly inconvenienced.

(13 Oct 2022, 5:07 am)Starscream wrote My suggestion of free services was envisioned to use novice agency staff, namely people who have never driven a bus but do have a license and can be quickly trained and passed in PSV (presumably by managers). Given a head start of 6 weeks, it's possible I think, at least for a reliable skeleton service that could be used for PR value. There's no shortage of people out there ready and willing to work for as little as £11on on a short term basis, if the promise of doing a good job was a permanent driving job at something like £12.50. Agency staff are used to working overtime and shifts at basic rate. Agencies do charge a finder's fee for short term work like this, but for a big corporate client like Stagecoach, for a special one off contract, the agency's terms could be modified to make it as cheap as possible.

I was intrigued to see an agency (Pertemps) refusing to supply staff to a striking school, so that might be an unexpected problem!

As it stands, it seems like the ordinary tactics might suffice. The strike as barely mentioned in my social circle, and more of an on so that's happening then, not with any strong support for the drivers, even though these people are occasional users of the Sunderland routes. Drivers perhaps needs to realise that the basis of this crisis is something that effects everyone. Screwing over pensioners panicking about their heating or agency workers trying to get to their poorly paid jobs at unsociable hours is not a winning strategy, especially if the support for the strike is already so weak that a good proportion of daily normal hours commuters will only be mildly inconvenienced.

Are you a Stagecoach shareholder or something? I've never seen someone so openly in bed with the bosses of a bus company underpaying staff.

Anyone with an inch of decency wouldn't break strike action for £11 an hour, if so why aren't these already driving buses in the North East...? It's not like there's not a shortage of drivers.

Driver's don't give a shit about their passengers who are riding buses around for heating when they, yes they, can't pay for their own heating. Infact driver's generally don't give a toss about their passengers except when they're riding their bus, why would they? They're not charity workers.

(12 Oct 2022, 10:47 pm)F114TML wrote Of course it isn't; they're being inconvenienced because their local bus route isn't running even though they haven't stepped on a bus since about 1984

The opposite actually. They rely on buses.

The only Stagecoach shareholders I know are....drivers!

They're not charity workers, but they are workers.

I would drive a bus for £11, but I have no PSV. If I did, I know I certainly wouldn't abandon people who are earning far less and will probably get sacked if they're not lucky enough to have alternative transport, because I know fine well £11 is enough to pay my essential bills already. Like most people I am sure, we can see this is probably not a matter of basic survival for most striking drivers.

(13 Oct 2022, 11:28 am)Starscream wrote The only Stagecoach shareholders I know are....drivers!

They're not charity workers, but they are workers.

I would drive a bus for £11, but I have no PSV. If I did, I know I certainly wouldn't abandon people who are earning far less and will probably get sacked if they're not lucky enough to have alternative transport, because I know fine well £11 is enough to pay my essential bills already. Like most people I am sure, we can see this is probably not a matter of basic survival for most striking drivers.

They are workers who deserve decent pay and conditions. They're humans, who like you and I, should not be exploited or treated like shit for simply doing a job. People work to support themselves and their families financially - if that is no longer possible for the majority who are working long hours, then its probably time for a pay rise.

Strikes are a last resort and do cause positive change, when suddenly there are some profits that could be diverted into drivers' pockets, or that thing that is seriously wrong can be sorted out...

By the way, Stagecoach are hiring and will train you up to get your PSV! I'm sure you'll get more than £11 per hour on strike days for scabbing.

(13 Oct 2022, 11:28 am)Starscream wrote The only Stagecoach shareholders I know are....drivers!

They're not charity workers, but they are workers.

I would drive a bus for £11, but I have no PSV. If I did, I know I certainly wouldn't abandon people who are earning far less and will probably get sacked if they're not lucky enough to have alternative transport, because I know fine well £11 is enough to pay my essential bills already. Like most people I am sure, we can see this is probably not a matter of basic survival for most striking drivers.

Spoken by someone who has never spent a day in his life driving buses. I bet you have some romantic notion of the job whereby all the passengers and car drivers are nice to you and you wave at the bus spotters with a cheery grin on your face as you drive by. The reality is far different.

£11 an hour is roughly £21k, that is a take home of roughly £18k per year after tax and insurance. Then you might have union fees on top of that. So monthly thats £1500 with weekend working, unsociable hours and the general public. That's to cover your rent/mortgage, soaring energy bills, perhaps a car, food shop and not much left over.

I personally wouldn't do it and I don't think I'd cope on that salary - irregardless of that I could get a nice cushy call centre job for more money with no stress. They are equally desperate to recruit.

Whilst I think the Unions demands are a tad unreasonable its obviously a starting point to meet in the middle with - pretty much like the trains however, life goes on, people adapt - they just won't return to buses and the industry will continue its death spiral

What does the term scab mean?

(13 Oct 2022, 2:31 pm)idiot wrote What does the term scab mean?

You can do a internet search

A strikebreaker (sometimes called a scab, blackleg, or knobstick) is a person who works despite a strike. Strikebreakers are usually individuals who were not employed by the company before the trade union dispute but hired after or during the strike to keep the organization running. Strikebreakers may also refer to workers (union members or not) who cross picket lines to work.


I wonder if the stagecoach drivers will be calling the drivers knobsticks tomorrow instead of scabs , even though there’s plenty of them in the Houses of Parliament



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