New Service Ideas for East Gateshead

G1: Felling Square, Q.E Hospital (Hopefully Into the Hospiital Grounds), Kells Lane, Dryden Road, Gateshead Interchange, Derwentwater Road, Racecourse Estate.
G2: Allerdene, Saltwell Park, Alexandra Road, Gateshead Interchange, Askew Road, Tyne View School, Forge Road, Ravensworth Road

Would be operated with a 4 wheel steering bus, to allow for a better turning circle.
Would have Wi-Fi, NSA, USB and approx 20-25 seats.

PVR of G1 = 2
PVR of G2 = 3
Total PVR = 5

Probably a daft suggestion this one.

If GNE's driver numbers eventually recover but Arriva are still struggling, would extending the 58 north of Newcastle to Cramlington to plug the 43/44/45 gap not be an option? Could create a combined frequency through Gosforth with the Q3.

(10 Nov 2022, 3:27 pm)L469 YVK wrote Probably a daft suggestion this one.

If GNE's driver numbers eventually recover but Arriva are still struggling, would extending the 58 north of Newcastle to Cramlington to plug the 43/44/45 gap not be an option? Could create a combined frequency through Gosforth with the Q3.

Could potentially do something with the 57 aswell

(10 Nov 2022, 3:27 pm)L469 YVK wrote Probably a daft suggestion this one.

If GNE's driver numbers eventually recover but Arriva are still struggling, would extending the 58 north of Newcastle to Cramlington to plug the 43/44/45 gap not be an option? Could create a combined frequency through Gosforth with the Q3.

And they've got Euro 6 G2's coming from London which are the exact same spec bar the Interior Moquette

Not a bad shout. The only issue would be is unless they atleast Depart from Haymarket and Arrive at St Marys I doubt they would get high passenger numbers.

Extend more services to maybe Retail World, Team Valley

or they could work together and provide driver's for a cost like they have done with the 6 and 7 in Durham for a bit.

Mindless competition is just pathetic. You could make the exact same case on the 21.

Why not extend the 7 to compensate for the 21 issues. Then you've got a bus war all over again.

Not to mention Stagecoach won't be happy either with their 30/31 either having mindless competition.

How about extending the x20 amd x21 from ashington to Birtley, chester le street via the 21, or even durham?

X30 extended to Consett, this would allow the X45 to go Standalone which is desperately needed. 

X30 Newcastle - X31 Stanley - X31 Newcastle - X30 Consett. 

Increase X45 to every 20 mins, it will still interwork with the X30, however using 3 StreetDecks which would make that part of the service Standalone, giving it around 20 mins layover either end to make up any delayed time.

This would leave a PVR 4 so if an X56 was going to be tempted you could make up the PVR 5 with 6331/2.

(12 Nov 2022, 3:09 pm)Unber43 wrote X30 extended to Consett, this would allow the X45 to go Standalone which is desperately needed. 

X30 Newcastle - X31 Stanley - X31 Newcastle - X30 Consett. 

Increase X45 to every 20 mins, it will still interwork with the X30, however using 3 StreetDecks which would make that part of the service Standalone, giving it around 20 mins layover either end to make up any delayed time.

This would leave a PVR 4 so if an X56 was going to be tempted you could make up the PVR 5 with 6331/2.

This feels like an incredibly costly solution to a reliability problem.

If the X45 is impacting on the reliability of the X30/X31, then the cheapest and most cost-effective solution would be to terminante the X45 at Consett Bus Station. That saves c.20 minutes, which could be used for layover (15 min to be split between both ends of the route) and extra running time (no more than 5 min).

(12 Nov 2022, 4:23 pm)Dan wrote This feels like an incredibly costly solution to a reliability problem.

If the X45 is impacting on the reliability of the X30/X31, then the cheapest and most cost-effective solution would be to terminante the X45 at Consett Bus Station. That saves c.20 minutes, which could be used for layover (15 min to be split between both ends of the route) and extra running time (no more than 5 min).

Not forgetting if StreetDecks were used on the X30/X31, they'd be converted to 'StreetLites' haha!

(12 Nov 2022, 4:23 pm)Dan wrote This feels like an incredibly costly solution to a reliability problem.

If the X45 is impacting on the reliability of the X30/X31, then the cheapest and most cost-effective solution would be to terminante the X45 at Consett Bus Station. That saves c.20 minutes, which could be used for layover (15 min to be split between both ends of the route) and extra running time (no more than 5 min).

Also it seem the X45 have been using the swing bridge coming into Newcastle this afternoon which is a great idea as it seems to save some time.

And so had the 10s & 6 which have been following their route till Redheugh then circle back down over the swing bridge, this has hopefully saved some time. 

There was an X72 arrived into newcastle 20 mins late, then went NIS even tho X71 has like a 40 mins in Consett.

(12 Nov 2022, 4:55 pm)Unber43 wrote There was an X72 arrived into newcastle 20 mins late, then went NIS even tho X71 has like a 40 mins in Consett.

Loads of reasons why it might have been sent back NIS. Bus may have 40 minutes, but if that driver is due to have a break in Consett then that could take them massively below the legal limit depending on shift. There could have been an issue with the vehicle, or a driver wanting finished early. Buses aren't sent NIS for no good reason.

Taking engineering into account and given that the 6 is now operated by Consett meaning remote reliefs at Lanchester and probably Stanley, would it not make sense to have the X30/X31 standalone using 6338-40 with 6336 & 6337 as Consett's 'low height' spares?

And then with other interworking patterns changed or made standalone, move 6341-51 to Riverside?

What that would mean is if all of 6341-55 were generic 'X-Lines', rather than 6352-55 getting a daily hammering on the X10, it could be spread out more evenly on a 4 day rolling rota:

- 8x X21 >> this could give the option to increase back to 9x with the long layover re-introduced
- 4x X10

Day 1 X10 - 6341-44
Day 2 X10 - 6345-48
Day 3 X10 - 6349-52
Day 4 X10 - 6353-55 & 6341

(13 Nov 2022, 11:00 am)L469 YVK wrote Taking engineering into account and given that the 6 is now operated by Consett meaning remote reliefs at Lanchester and probably Stanley, would it not make sense to have the X30/X31 standalone using 6338-40 with 6336 & 6337 as Consett's 'low height' spares?

And then with other interworking patterns changed or made standalone, move 6341-51 to Riverside?

What that would mean is if all of 6341-55 were generic 'X-Lines', rather than 6352-55 getting a daily hammering on the X10, it could be spread out more evenly on a 4 day rolling rota:

- 8x X21 >> this could give the option to increase back to 9x with the long layover re-introduced
- 4x X10

Day 1 X10 - 6341-44
Day 2 X10 - 6345-48
Day 3 X10 - 6349-52
Day 4 X10 - 6353-55 & 6341

6337 isn't low height I believe, what would happen with x45/71/72 unless you are suggesting they also move to Riverside

(13 Nov 2022, 10:05 pm)lxbical wrote 6337 isn't low height I believe, what would happen with x45/71/72 unless you are suggesting they also move to Riverside

6337 is taller than the rest, but still low enough to go under the bridge at Dunston, which it did/does regularly.

It's a shame the new E400s weren't ordered to that height as it would have made them tolerable for people taller than 3ft!

(20 Oct 2022, 3:06 pm)V514DFT wrote I was thinking last night, would there be any sense in doing this
1-revised to operate Gateshead-North Shields
310- revised to operate Newcastle- Whitley Bay via North Shields effectively swapping with the 1

No.

X9 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Heworth - Dalton Park - Peterlee - Hartlepool - Billingham - Middlesbrough (it woueld not go to Stockton)

Only reason I suggest this is because the X10 is currently going via Hartlepool due to the closure of the A19, and it seems to be adding 10 mins onto to the journey, so roughly 20 mins during the day time, this could potentially help GNE get back into hartlepool offereing a link that many dont have who wouldn't use the train.

(15 Nov 2022, 11:17 pm)Unber43 wrote X9 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Heworth - Dalton Park - Peterlee - Hartlepool - Billingham - Middlesbrough (it woueld not go to Stockton)

Only reason I suggest this is because the X10 is currently going via Hartlepool due to the closure of the A19, and it seems to be adding 10 mins onto to the journey, so roughly 20 mins during the day time, this could potentially help GNE get back into hartlepool offereing a link that many dont have who wouldn't use the train.

Can’t see that happening, Hartlepool to Middlesbrough is stagecoach territory is was carved up years ago with agreement made between stagecoach and arriva, only reason the x9 operated in that area around billingham as GNE had a foothold when there purchased ok travel and there inherited the 212, which then was replaced by the x9 covering certain sections of the 212.


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Stagecoach ran a X55 service between Hartlepool and Newcastle about 5 years ago using a coach, pretty much your suggestion without Peterlee. Lasted a few months.

(15 Nov 2022, 11:17 pm)Unber43 wrote X9 - Newcastle - Gateshead - Heworth - Dalton Park - Peterlee - Hartlepool - Billingham - Middlesbrough (it woueld not go to Stockton)

Only reason I suggest this is because the X10 is currently going via Hartlepool due to the closure of the A19, and it seems to be adding 10 mins onto to the journey, so roughly 20 mins during the day time, this could potentially help GNE get back into hartlepool offereing a link that many dont have who wouldn't use the train.

If you're going to do that might aswell terminate it at Hartlepool, running this https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.75974...a4!1m0!3e0

and running limited stop Peterlee - Horden Aldi - Blackhall Co-op - Crimdon Dene - Army Reserve Centre (Hartlepool, there's currently no bus service here - for hospital) - Powlett Road, May Street (Hartlepool, there's currently no bus service here) - ASDA / National Museum of the Royal Navy (Hartlepool) - Hartlepool and that's it.

Every Hour - Mon to Sat
Every 2 Hours - Sunday (extend Peterlee shorts)

Newcastle - Peterlee is the busiest part of the route so trying 30 minutes with maybe a few extra punters picked up from beyond there might make it sustainable. The part from Hartlepool to Middlesbrough is just competing against Stagecoach and is too long winded from Peterlee so pointless.

(16 Nov 2022, 10:40 am)Storx wrote If you're going to do that might aswell terminate it at Hartlepool, running this https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.75974...a4!1m0!3e0

and running limited stop Peterlee - Horden Aldi - Blackhall Co-op - Crimdon Dene - Army Reserve Centre (Hartlepool, there's currently no bus service here - for hospital) - Powlett Road, May Street (Hartlepool, there's currently no bus service here) - ASDA / National Museum of the Royal Navy (Hartlepool) - Hartlepool and that's it.

Every Hour - Mon to Sat
Every 2 Hours - Sunday (extend Peterlee shorts)

Newcastle - Peterlee is the busiest part of the route so trying 30 minutes with maybe a few extra punters picked up from beyond there might make it sustainable. The part from Hartlepool to Middlesbrough is just competing against Stagecoach and is too long winded from Peterlee so pointless.

No point trotting the same route as the 23/24, better out of Peterlee, A19 to Castle Eden, A19 to Elwick and in via High Tunstall

(16 Nov 2022, 12:24 pm)54APhotography wrote No point trotting the same route as the 23/24, better out of Peterlee, A19 to Castle Eden, A19 to Elwick and in via High Tunstall

It's longer that way from the centre of Peterlee so no real gain going onto the A19 especially at rush hour where you get stuck heading towards the A19 from Hartlepool. I was trying to keep it under an hour so it would be just an extra bus tbh doing the extension.

(16 Nov 2022, 12:34 pm)Storx wrote It's longer that way from the centre of Peterlee so no real gain going onto the A19 especially at rush hour where you get stuck heading towards the A19 from Hartlepool. I was trying to keep it under an hour so it would be just an extra bus tbh doing the extension.

Perhaps skip Peterlee altogether, there's enough services from two operators already, stick to the A19 after Dalton Park

(16 Nov 2022, 1:44 pm)54APhotography wrote Perhaps skip Peterlee altogether, there's enough services from two operators already, stick to the A19 after Dalton Park

Aye possibly like but then you'd lose the 30 minute Peterlee to Newcastle which I think would be more popular. Not sure that many would really use it from Hartlepool on it's own it's a bit operationally out the way really. Would mean the local passengers who connect to other buses using the 6xx buses in Peterlee could connect on a single ticket rather than no doubt an explorer ticket so you'd gain the lost Peterlee -> Hartlepool link, similar for those travelling from Houghton etc could get the X1 and change onto it.

(16 Nov 2022, 2:04 pm)Storx wrote Aye possibly like but then you'd lose the 30 minute Peterlee to Newcastle which I think would be more popular. Not sure that many would really use it from Hartlepool on it's own it's a bit operationally out the way really. Would mean the local passengers who connect to other buses using the 6xx buses in Peterlee could connect on a single ticket rather than no doubt an explorer ticket so you'd gain the lost Peterlee -> Hartlepool link, similar for those travelling from Houghton etc could get the X1 and change onto it.

Difficult option choices, having travelled on the bus between Peterlee and Hartlepool, and cycled the route many times the numbers along the coast route just don't seem to be picking up.. See less and less people overall..

(16 Nov 2022, 2:11 pm)54APhotography wrote Difficult option choices, having travelled on the bus between Peterlee and Hartlepool, and cycled the route many times the numbers along the coast route just don't seem to be picking up.. See less and less people overall..

Aye it's probably why it doesn't exist let's be honest as there just isn't the demand, people from Hartlepool opting for the train who need it tbh.

Here are a few suggestions:

59: Newcastle, Gateshead, Deckham, Felling Square, Furrowfield Estate, Heworth, Gosforth Terrace, Monkton Lane, Lukes Lane

80: Newcastle, Team Valley, Lamesley, Birtley, Barley Mow, Ayton, Lambton, The Galleries, Biddick (Parkway), Fatfield, A182, Shiney Row, Success, Fence Houses, Rainton Bridge, Hetton Park Estate, Hetton-Le-Hole

81: Newcastle, Team Valley, Lamesley, Birtley, Barley Mow, Ayton, Lambton, The Galleries, Washington Village, Barmston Court, Barmston (Waskerley Road), Peel, Waterview Park, Cherry Blossom Way, Sulgrave (Station Road), Concord

87: Heworth, Fewster Square, Springwell Village, Blackfell (Knoulberry Road), Oxclose, The Galleries, Biddick (Village Centre), Fatfield, Penshaw, Barnwell (The Limes)

88: Heworth, Wardley, High Usworth, Donwell, Albany, The Galleries, Harraton (Bonemill Lane, Rickleton Way, Rickleton (Village Centre)

123: Newcastle, Gateshead, Low Fell, Harlow Green, Birtley, CLS, Plawsworth, Framwellgate Moor, Whitesmocks, Nevilles Cross, Croxdale, Thinford, Dobbies Corner, Spennymoor

125: Newcastle, Bensham, Saltwell Park, Harlow Green, Birtley, CLS, Plawsworth, Nettlesworth, Sacriston, Witton Gilbert

X7: Newcastle, Gateshead, Bensham Hospital, Lobley Hill (Cragside Gardens), Whickham, Larkspur Avenue, Broadway

X11: Newcastle, Gateshead, Teams (Tyne View School), A1, Blaydon, Ryton, Ryton Village, Crawcrook, Clara Vale

(13 Nov 2022, 10:05 pm)lxbical wrote 6337 isn't low height I believe, what would happen with x45/71/72 unless you are suggesting they also move to Riverside

Only the X30/X31 need low height deckers. The rest of Consett's X routes don't.

(20 Nov 2022, 12:58 pm)L469 YVK wrote Only the X30/X31 need low height deckers. The rest of Consett's X routes don't.

The rest of the E400s should never have been ordered with the low height IMO. It would have made them so much nicer.

(20 Nov 2022, 2:57 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The rest of the E400s should never have been ordered with the low height IMO. It would have made them so much nicer.

have you seen the state of the low height streetdecks? ?