Arriva North East: Upcoming Service Changes
Arriva North East: Upcoming Service Changes
Arriva appear to be telling local authorities that they intend to recruit the number of drivers required to run the current timetables long term, and return some services back to the pre-pandemic level once it is possible.
They are also sending a representative to a meeting with North Tyneside Councillors on Wednesday 7th to discuss issues and update on the short term plans.
(29 Nov 2022, 10:59 am)V514DFT I smell service withdrawls on the horizonLooking at the sheer resource and costs required, is there any value of Arriva keeping the 47/51/52/53/54/55?
(29 Nov 2022, 10:59 am)V514DFT I smell service withdrawls on the horizonLooking at the sheer resource and costs required, is there any value of Arriva keeping the 47/51/52/53/54/55?
(29 Nov 2022, 10:59 am)V514DFT I smell service withdrawls on the horizon
(29 Nov 2022, 10:59 am)V514DFT I smell service withdrawls on the horizon
(29 Nov 2022, 3:51 pm)Storx Can't see it personally I have a feeling it's going to be something like:But how's that going to do things any good? Not deflecting criticism from GNE either as they cut some frequencies for similar reasons.
43 - Every 30 Minutes
44 - Hourly
45 - Hourly
51 - No Changes
52 - Hourly
53 - Hourly
54 - Hourly
55 - No Changes
They're the routes which they've pretty much abandoned the last few weeks, Blyth are definitely prioritising the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 over them. The 'Tyne and Wear' is very noticeable which suggest it's not going to be the routes going into Northumberland.
Mind Sandy Lane is not helping either so pulling the X7/X8 via West Moor would improve things massively, they're pretty much consistently 15 minutes late every day lately.
(29 Nov 2022, 3:51 pm)Storx Can't see it personally I have a feeling it's going to be something like:But how's that going to do things any good? Not deflecting criticism from GNE either as they cut some frequencies for similar reasons.
43 - Every 30 Minutes
44 - Hourly
45 - Hourly
51 - No Changes
52 - Hourly
53 - Hourly
54 - Hourly
55 - No Changes
They're the routes which they've pretty much abandoned the last few weeks, Blyth are definitely prioritising the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 over them. The 'Tyne and Wear' is very noticeable which suggest it's not going to be the routes going into Northumberland.
Mind Sandy Lane is not helping either so pulling the X7/X8 via West Moor would improve things massively, they're pretty much consistently 15 minutes late every day lately.
(29 Nov 2022, 4:18 pm)L469 YVK The sheer business case for keeping the 50's going faced with other issues......Arriva could sort all driver number issues out overnight and even streamline a few things whilst at it too.
If Arriva see an actual business case for keeping the 50's, then good luck to them.
(29 Nov 2022, 4:18 pm)L469 YVK The sheer business case for keeping the 50's going faced with other issues......Arriva could sort all driver number issues out overnight and even streamline a few things whilst at it too.
If Arriva see an actual business case for keeping the 50's, then good luck to them.
(29 Nov 2022, 4:18 pm)L469 YVK But how's that going to do things any good? Not deflecting criticism from GNE either as they cut some frequencies for similar reasons.
43/44/45 for starters are money makers. 53 already hourly in parts. 52 already hourly on Saturdays and 54 already hourly.
The sheer business case for keeping the 50's going faced with other issues......Arriva could sort all driver number issues out overnight and even streamline a few things whilst at it too.
If Arriva see an actual business case for keeping the 50's, then good luck to them.
(29 Nov 2022, 4:18 pm)L469 YVK But how's that going to do things any good? Not deflecting criticism from GNE either as they cut some frequencies for similar reasons.
43/44/45 for starters are money makers. 53 already hourly in parts. 52 already hourly on Saturdays and 54 already hourly.
The sheer business case for keeping the 50's going faced with other issues......Arriva could sort all driver number issues out overnight and even streamline a few things whilst at it too.
If Arriva see an actual business case for keeping the 50's, then good luck to them.
(29 Nov 2022, 5:03 pm)mb134 Feels like you've got some sort of vested interest in Arriva binning off 6 routes...Ok saying years of data, but bearing in mind what's been happening the last two years plus the current situation:
"If Arriva see an actual business case....then good luck to them" - Arriva will have years worth of data to make these decisions with, including in depth passenger trends and financials. I highly doubt that in the next network planning meeting they'll sit down and start with "It's been fun, but L469 YVK doesn't think we should run these services, so let's just bin the lot and ignore the extensive financial data we have on them".
(29 Nov 2022, 5:03 pm)mb134 Feels like you've got some sort of vested interest in Arriva binning off 6 routes...Ok saying years of data, but bearing in mind what's been happening the last two years plus the current situation:
"If Arriva see an actual business case....then good luck to them" - Arriva will have years worth of data to make these decisions with, including in depth passenger trends and financials. I highly doubt that in the next network planning meeting they'll sit down and start with "It's been fun, but L469 YVK doesn't think we should run these services, so let's just bin the lot and ignore the extensive financial data we have on them".
(29 Nov 2022, 6:16 pm)L469 YVK Ok saying years of data, but bearing in mind what's been happening the last two years plus the current situation:
- Dead mileage
- Driver shortages and costs of rectifying including agency staff
- Long term upkeep of fleet required
- Risk of losing evening & Sunday work
- Bus recovery grants coming to an end
Fair enough if the data supports it. But if not, are Arriva going to go to the effort to find drivers to fill the gaps plus the costs associated, when they can scale back, all issues resolved and still make money carrying a rammed double decker into Newcastle from Blyth, Ashington or up the Coast Road.
(29 Nov 2022, 6:16 pm)L469 YVK Ok saying years of data, but bearing in mind what's been happening the last two years plus the current situation:
- Dead mileage
- Driver shortages and costs of rectifying including agency staff
- Long term upkeep of fleet required
- Risk of losing evening & Sunday work
- Bus recovery grants coming to an end
Fair enough if the data supports it. But if not, are Arriva going to go to the effort to find drivers to fill the gaps plus the costs associated, when they can scale back, all issues resolved and still make money carrying a rammed double decker into Newcastle from Blyth, Ashington or up the Coast Road.
Has dead milage even increased. Whitley Bay / Tynemouth, Cramlington, Dinnington, Morpeth, Ashington etc are as close to Blyth and Ashington than they are Jesmond where a lot of the boards start from. If there's any which start/end in Newcastle I'm sure they could easily be cancelled as no-one wants to head out in the morning or to Newcastle late at night.
Also there's no issues with the Arriva Northumbria fleet the oldest single Decker now is a 61 plate excluding the Solo's which I'm sure won't be around much longer and they've just released 09/59 Plate's as spares. Total contrast to another operator aka Stagecoach who are getting second hand 59 Plate junk for frontline service.
One thing that's being ignored (and it's been mentioned) is the cost for a full depot.
The driver situation at GNE is worse than Arriva considering half the network has been butchered or is still on limited service whether that's temporary or not, who knows and they're in an absolute dire straight by doing exactly what's been said here including a mishandled depot closure.
(29 Nov 2022, 6:29 pm)mb134 Does the fact that they're splashing out on agency drivers to fulfill service not imply that the services are deemed important enough to justify that cost?X21 and 21 are goldmines compared to a few 'local services'.
You could have these arguments about any routes - the 21 and X21 have increased dead mileage now compared to when operated from CLS, coupled with a driver shortage and "long term upkeep of fleet" (would like to see any bus company that doesn't have expenses for fleet maintenance...). Are GNE going to bin them off? Obviously not.
(29 Nov 2022, 6:29 pm)mb134 Does the fact that they're splashing out on agency drivers to fulfill service not imply that the services are deemed important enough to justify that cost?X21 and 21 are goldmines compared to a few 'local services'.
You could have these arguments about any routes - the 21 and X21 have increased dead mileage now compared to when operated from CLS, coupled with a driver shortage and "long term upkeep of fleet" (would like to see any bus company that doesn't have expenses for fleet maintenance...). Are GNE going to bin them off? Obviously not.
(29 Nov 2022, 8:22 pm)L469 YVK X21 and 21 are goldmines compared to a few 'local services'.
(29 Nov 2022, 8:22 pm)L469 YVK X21 and 21 are goldmines compared to a few 'local services'.
(30 Nov 2022, 11:12 am)Storx 6, - 8 miles to Riverside or Consett
8, - on route (Washington??)
12, - Depot nearby
27, - Depot not much further
34, - Can't comment
49, 49A, - Depot on route
51, 52, - Depot nearby
53, 54, - Depot nearby
57, - Depot nearby
58, - Depot nearby
93, 94, - Depot nearby
62, 201, 206, 208, 209, 210,
Q3, - Depot nearby
X30, X31, - 8 miles to Consett and interworks with X45
X6. - Can't comment
Cancel all those aswell? All secondary routes, all impacted by depot closures within the last 10 year.
(30 Nov 2022, 11:12 am)Storx 6, - 8 miles to Riverside or Consett
8, - on route (Washington??)
12, - Depot nearby
27, - Depot not much further
34, - Can't comment
49, 49A, - Depot on route
51, 52, - Depot nearby
53, 54, - Depot nearby
57, - Depot nearby
58, - Depot nearby
93, 94, - Depot nearby
62, 201, 206, 208, 209, 210,
Q3, - Depot nearby
X30, X31, - 8 miles to Consett and interworks with X45
X6. - Can't comment
Cancel all those aswell? All secondary routes, all impacted by depot closures within the last 10 year.
51, 52, 53, 54 (Interwork) - 5.3 Mile or 12 minutes including an Ashington board 0 miles
43, 44, 45 (Interwork) - 5.3 Mile or 12 minutes including Morpeth boards where Ashington are already based
55 - Awkward One
Gateshead to Riverside is 3.3 Mile or 8 minutes and there's an awful lot more buses doing it.
It's virtually the same as most of those.
The X30/X31/X45 interworking isn't working either as the X45 is quite often late and so is a lot of other routes lately because of squeezing timetables too much. The X21 4/5 minute layover is utter farcical for the length of the route, it's no wonder it's 20+ minutes late all the time.
(30 Nov 2022, 11:41 pm)Storx 51, 52, 53, 54 (Interwork) - 5.3 Mile or 12 minutes including an Ashington board 0 milesBut tbf even services which have large layovers are going NIS, the 39As are constantly cancelled due to delayed operations, 21 which have 7 mins at CLS & Newcastle are going NIS.
43, 44, 45 (Interwork) - 5.3 Mile or 12 minutes including Morpeth boards where Ashington are already based
55 - Awkward One
Gateshead to Riverside is 3.3 Mile or 8 minutes and there's an awful lot more buses doing it.
It's virtually the same as most of those.
The X30/X31/X45 interworking isn't working either as the X45 is quite often late and so is a lot of other routes lately because of squeezing timetables too much. The X21 4/5 minute layover is utter farcical for the length of the route, it's no wonder it's 20+ minutes late all the time.
(30 Nov 2022, 11:41 pm)Storx 51, 52, 53, 54 (Interwork) - 5.3 Mile or 12 minutes including an Ashington board 0 milesBut tbf even services which have large layovers are going NIS, the 39As are constantly cancelled due to delayed operations, 21 which have 7 mins at CLS & Newcastle are going NIS.
43, 44, 45 (Interwork) - 5.3 Mile or 12 minutes including Morpeth boards where Ashington are already based
55 - Awkward One
Gateshead to Riverside is 3.3 Mile or 8 minutes and there's an awful lot more buses doing it.
It's virtually the same as most of those.
The X30/X31/X45 interworking isn't working either as the X45 is quite often late and so is a lot of other routes lately because of squeezing timetables too much. The X21 4/5 minute layover is utter farcical for the length of the route, it's no wonder it's 20+ minutes late all the time.
(01 Dec 2022, 8:45 am)Unber43 But tbf even services which have large layovers are going NIS, the 39As are constantly cancelled due to delayed operations, 21 which have 7 mins at CLS & Newcastle are going NIS.
56's which have about 12 mins, same as the 60 are constantly late, the 56 is appalling on a night they're never on time.
Same with the 22/23 they're always late.
(01 Dec 2022, 8:45 am)Unber43 But tbf even services which have large layovers are going NIS, the 39As are constantly cancelled due to delayed operations, 21 which have 7 mins at CLS & Newcastle are going NIS.
56's which have about 12 mins, same as the 60 are constantly late, the 56 is appalling on a night they're never on time.
Same with the 22/23 they're always late.
(30 Nov 2022, 11:41 pm)Storx The X30/X31/X45 interworking isn't working either as the X45 is quite often late and so is a lot of other routes lately because of squeezing timetables too much. The X21 4/5 minute layover is utter farcical for the length of the route, it's no wonder it's 20+ minutes late all the time.More for the GNE thread this one (can continue discussion there), but with presumably the 6 needing relief at Stanley, opening the bait room there and having.........
(30 Nov 2022, 11:41 pm)Storx The X30/X31/X45 interworking isn't working either as the X45 is quite often late and so is a lot of other routes lately because of squeezing timetables too much. The X21 4/5 minute layover is utter farcical for the length of the route, it's no wonder it's 20+ minutes late all the time.More for the GNE thread this one (can continue discussion there), but with presumably the 6 needing relief at Stanley, opening the bait room there and having.........
(01 Dec 2022, 1:39 pm)L469 YVK More for the GNE thread this one (can continue discussion there), but with presumably the 6 needing relief at Stanley, opening the bait room there and having.........What about X71/X72
- X45 standalone (full height deckers)
- X30/X31 standalone using 6338-40 + 6336 & 37 as Consett's low bridge spares
- 6341-55 at Riverside all for the X10/X21 (with 1 or 2 spare depending on long term X21 PVR)
Would be the most sensible option. Standardises fleet and gives all the E400MMCs a turn at being hammered on the X10 rather than a select few.
(01 Dec 2022, 1:39 pm)L469 YVK More for the GNE thread this one (can continue discussion there), but with presumably the 6 needing relief at Stanley, opening the bait room there and having.........What about X71/X72
- X45 standalone (full height deckers)
- X30/X31 standalone using 6338-40 + 6336 & 37 as Consett's low bridge spares
- 6341-55 at Riverside all for the X10/X21 (with 1 or 2 spare depending on long term X21 PVR)
Would be the most sensible option. Standardises fleet and gives all the E400MMCs a turn at being hammered on the X10 rather than a select few.
