https://bdaily.co.uk/articles/2022/11/11...n-over-pay 

Possible Engineer Strike when the fleet is in the state that it's in, this is the last thing that is needed.

12.3%…

I’d like 20 minutes with Ariana Grande but there we go

(08 Dec 2022, 8:18 pm)Unber43 wrote https://bdaily.co.uk/articles/2022/11/11...n-over-pay 

Possible Engineer Strike when the fleet is in the state that it's in, this is the last thing that is needed.

I don't know anything about the engineering wages but the fleet might be in the state it's in because they have limited staff as everyone has left.

The wages don't sound too clever if they were offered a 10% wage which they've declined - it's what most want.

(08 Dec 2022, 9:39 pm)Storx wrote I don't know anything about the engineering wages but the fleet might be in the state it's in because they have limited staff as everyone has left.

The wages don't sound too clever if they were offered a 10% wage which they've declined - it's what most want.

According to the website they're paid more than the drivers
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/engineering-vacancies

(08 Dec 2022, 9:48 pm)F114TML wrote According to the website they're paid more than the drivers
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/engineering-vacancies

Aye just had a look around and GNE currently seem well behind other companies (not sure whether they've had wage settlements yet though) but for a fitter in the North East it seems to be:

GNE: £13.63/hour
Arriva: £14.17/hour
Stagecoach: £14.93/hour

So quite a bit behind currently but 10% would take them to Stagecoach's level. Mind that was over a month ago and nothing has been said since so would suggest it's not happening.

(08 Dec 2022, 9:58 pm)Storx wrote Aye just had a look around and GNE currently seem well behind other companies (not sure whether they've had wage settlements yet though) but for a fitter in the North East it seems to be:

GNE: £13.63/hour
Arriva: £14.17/hour
Stagecoach: £14.93/hour

So quite a bit behind currently but 10% would take them to Stagecoach's level. Mind that was over a month ago and nothing has been said since so would suggest it's not happening.

The ballet closed late November, and it said strikes could start as early as mid-december, I don't suppose GNE would advertise that their engineers are on strike, They want 12.4%, which is approx £15.27 an hour.

(08 Dec 2022, 10:02 pm)Unber43 wrote The ballet closed late November, and it said strikes could start as early as mid-december, I don't suppose GNE would advertise that their engineers are on strike, They want 12.4%, which is approx £15.27 an hour.

Yeah I know but the union usually do to put massive pressure on them. No point in holding it off so there's likely either been another offer or they've accepted it (not sure though).

(08 Dec 2022, 10:02 pm)Unber43 wrote The ballet closed late November, and it said strikes could start as early as mid-december, I don't suppose GNE would advertise that their engineers are on strike, They want 12.4%, which is approx £15.27 an hour.

I hadn’t realised how poorly engineers in the PSV sector were paid. 15.27 an hour on a 40 hour week is £29,300. 

They’d be better off at Nissan. Hell, I’ve got unskilled non time served school drop outs in my organisation earning more than that for taking basic calls. 

I notice the news and union are running with the profitable GoAhead line and not the basket case regional embarrassment that is GNE

(08 Dec 2022, 11:14 pm)Ambassador wrote I hadn’t realised how poorly engineers in the PSV sector were paid. 15.27 an hour on a 40 hour week is £29,300. 

They’d be better off at Nissan. Hell, I’ve got unskilled non time served school drop outs in my organisation earning more than that for taking basic calls. 

I notice the news and union are running with the profitable GoAhead line and not the basket case regional embarrassment that is GNE

The fact that GNE along with most other companies not being profitable are not down to the drivers or engineers - it's down to appalling mis-management for years.

All these 'rising fuel costs' are complete crap - they usually have fuel costs hedged for 3-5 years in advance.  Penny pinching on cheapest possible parts regardless of the quality has long been an issue, as has the attitude of 'just get it serviceable' rather than have any pro-active maintenance asides from annual PSV.

Staff turnover in engineering has in my experience always been high simply because with the best will in the world, no decent engineer wants to be putting band aids on all day every day and having to patch the same problems because the company doesn't see that for example an ABS sensor that is half the cost that needs to be replaced 3 or 4 times as often isn't cost effective, or that waiting 6 weeks or more for a compressor with the bus off the road all that time or in service and breaking down repeatedly doesn't really make sense.  Even if it is a third more in cost - they could go an pick it up from Washington and have it fitted the same day and have the bus back on the road instead of scrambling to find whatever works that is left in the yard.

That's before we get to things like putting old knackered buses or unsuitable buses on the 6 - how many times per day have these broken down in service over the past month?  Sure the 6 is a 'bus breaker' route - but put something on that has a chance!

(08 Dec 2022, 11:14 pm)Ambassador wrote I hadn’t realised how poorly engineers in the PSV sector were paid. 15.27 an hour on a 40 hour week is £29,300. 

They’d be better off at Nissan. Hell, I’ve got unskilled non time served school drop outs in my organisation earning more than that for taking basic calls. 

I notice the news and union are running with the profitable GoAhead line and not the basket case regional embarrassment that is GNE

They can bump the wage up by doing driving jobs on a weekend though.

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(09 Dec 2022, 7:59 am)xpm wrote The fact that GNE along with most other companies not being profitable are not down to the drivers or engineers - it's down to appalling mis-management for years.

All these 'rising fuel costs' are complete crap - they usually have fuel costs hedged for 3-5 years in advance.  Penny pinching on cheapest possible parts regardless of the quality has long been an issue, as has the attitude of 'just get it serviceable' rather than have any pro-active maintenance asides from annual PSV.

Staff turnover in engineering has in my experience always been high simply because with the best will in the world, no decent engineer wants to be putting band aids on all day every day and having to patch the same problems because the company doesn't see that for example an ABS sensor that is half the cost that needs to be replaced 3 or 4 times as often isn't cost effective, or that waiting 6 weeks or more for a compressor with the bus off the road all that time or in service and breaking down repeatedly doesn't really make sense.  Even if it is a third more in cost - they could go an pick it up from Washington and have it fitted the same day and have the bus back on the road instead of scrambling to find whatever works that is left in the yard.

That's before we get to things like putting old knackered buses or unsuitable buses on the 6 - how many times per day have these broken down in service over the past month?  Sure the 6 is a 'bus breaker' route - but put something on that has a chance!

If it wasn't for the username, people might think it was me posting that.
Cos I've been saying the same for donkeys years and been called all sorts for saying it.

Glad someone else is on the same wavelength.

(09 Dec 2022, 7:59 am)xpm wrote The fact that GNE along with most other companies not being profitable are not down to the drivers or engineers - it's down to appalling mis-management for years.

All these 'rising fuel costs' are complete crap - they usually have fuel costs hedged for 3-5 years in advance.  Penny pinching on cheapest possible parts regardless of the quality has long been an issue, as has the attitude of 'just get it serviceable' rather than have any pro-active maintenance asides from annual PSV.

Staff turnover in engineering has in my experience always been high simply because with the best will in the world, no decent engineer wants to be putting band aids on all day every day and having to patch the same problems because the company doesn't see that for example an ABS sensor that is half the cost that needs to be replaced 3 or 4 times as often isn't cost effective, or that waiting 6 weeks or more for a compressor with the bus off the road all that time or in service and breaking down repeatedly doesn't really make sense.  Even if it is a third more in cost - they could go an pick it up from Washington and have it fitted the same day and have the bus back on the road instead of scrambling to find whatever works that is left in the yard.

That's before we get to things like putting old knackered buses or unsuitable buses on the 6 - how many times per day have these broken down in service over the past month?  Sure the 6 is a 'bus breaker' route - but put something on that has a chance!

GNE loves putting unsuitable buses on routes. 

They even did it last night with a Crusader replaced an X10 then broke down at Middlesbrough

From the looks of things they are going on strike from the 19th December till the 25th. https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-25714334

(10 Dec 2022, 1:38 pm)Jack Gill wrote From the looks of things they are going on strike from the 19th December till the 25th. https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-25714334

If this actually goes ahead then Sunderland in particular could be a nightmare as there could be days where there's no buses or Metro at all pretty much since both the trains and Stagecoach are both striking aswell.

Sunderland - Newcastle and Newcastle to Teesside will pretty much be inaccessible without a very long taxi or using one of the few coach journeys going.

(10 Dec 2022, 6:16 pm)Storx wrote If this actually goes ahead then Sunderland in particular could be a nightmare as there could be days where there's no buses or Metro at all pretty much since both the trains and Stagecoach are both striking aswell.

Sunderland - Newcastle and Newcastle to Teesside will pretty much be inaccessible without a very long taxi or using one of the few coach journeys going.

Gonna damage their reputation even more.
Recoverable?

(10 Dec 2022, 1:38 pm)Jack Gill wrote From the looks of things they are going on strike from the 19th December till the 25th. https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-25714334

This is worse than a driver strike, by the 21st GNE services will have grind to a halt or give an extremely reduced service.

Wonder what they'll use for the school services. Surely not the old wrecks they currently have?

Honestly this engineer strike is going to be bad...its all depots.

Deptford are mostly streetlites, GNE will bring back the Citaros, Graphites and maybe some other Mercs for this. Alpha will be loving this as GNE will just have to send them for all the breakdowns.

Consett wouldn't worry too much except the 6 which buses seem to die on & 78. Washington will struggle they are already with their being barely at EG Riders tho 2 spare Connections 4, Little Pinks, X1's & Green StreetDecks. Riverside...god knows & Percy Main will be alright.

Really the strike is too short to make any real lasting impact...

(10 Dec 2022, 6:46 pm)Andreos1 wrote Gonna damage their reputation even more.
Recoverable?

You have to have a reputation first to damage it Seriously though, it'll surely put a dent in it further for all public transport nevermind just GNE. Heck some days you won't be able to get an ambulance as that strike is in the middle of it aswell - crazy how much a mess this country is in lately.

(10 Dec 2022, 7:22 pm)Unber43 wrote Honestly this engineer strike is going to be bad...its all depots.

Deptford are mostly streetlites, GNE will bring back the Citaros, Graphites and maybe some other Mercs for this. Alpha will be loving this as GNE will just have to send them for all the breakdowns.

Consett wouldn't worry too much except the 6 which buses seem to die on & 78. Washington will struggle they are already with their being barely at EG Riders tho 2 spare Connections 4, Little Pinks, X1's & Green StreetDecks. Riverside...god knows & Percy Main will be alright.

Really the strike is too short to make any real lasting impact...

It'll be much worse than that, engineering staff include shunters, the people who refuel buses etc as someone else said give it a few days and the whole thing will ground to a halt. It's much worse than not having Driver's. Manager's can't maintain buses, they can drive them though and since it's fleet wide there's no avoiding it.

Also not sure how it works but I'm assuming someone has to sign buses off who actually understand the mechanics in a morning. Can't imagine they can just let buses just go out without any form of check without someone experienced and if you have an extremely limited staff doing it then that's going to seriously slow things going out.

(10 Dec 2022, 7:51 pm)Storx wrote You have to have a reputation first to damage it   Seriously though, it'll surely put a dent in it further for all public transport nevermind just GNE. Heck some days you won't be able to get an ambulance as that strike is in the middle of it aswell - crazy how much a mess this country is in lately.


It'll be much worse than that, engineering staff include shunters, the people who refuel buses etc as someone else said give it a few days and the whole thing will ground to a halt. It's much worse than not having Driver's. Manager's can't maintain buses, they can drive them though and since it's fleet wide there's no avoiding it.

Also not sure how it works but I'm assuming someone has to sign buses off who actually understand the mechanics in a morning. Can't imagine they can just let buses just go out without any form of check without someone experienced and if you have an extremely limited staff doing it then that's going to seriously slow things going out.

Yeah you're right. What happens if two buses won't start when they're all lined up either end are they going to push them.

I forgot that they refueled them. If GNE have no one to refuel them god knows. i can't imagine managers doing it for no extra pay.

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But what percentage of engineers are actually striking, surely there will still be maybe 1 or 2 to do the bare minimum in refueling buses

I believe that engineers are needed for a bus to go out in service:

Engineers need to sign defect cards on a morning when defects are identified,

Attending breakdowns and fixing faults,

Fuelling and shunting in the depot as well as operation of the wash,

PSV/MOT tests.

I wonder if a service reduction will be in operation during the strike days? I'm sure someone told me there needs to be a minimum amount of engineers for buses to go out in service however this may not be true but looking at the above list, things could go wrong quickly for GNE.

(10 Dec 2022, 8:56 pm)morritt89 wrote I believe that engineers are needed for a bus to go out in service:

Engineers need to sign defect cards on a morning when defects are identified,

Attending breakdowns and fixing faults,

Fuelling and shunting in the depot as well as operation of the wash,

PSV/MOT tests.

I wonder if a service reduction will be in operation during the strike days? I'm sure someone told me there needs to be a minimum amount of engineers for buses to go out in service however this may not be true but looking at the above list, things could go wrong quickly for GNE.

Its probably a bus v engineer ratio. 

But how many engineers are unionised

apprentice grades are not included in strike action, so they'll most likely be running the show with the managers and those who scab.

(10 Dec 2022, 9:27 pm)omnicity4659 wrote apprentice grades are not included in strike action, so they'll most likely be running the show with the managers and those who scab.

Im pretty sure GNE take in single figures of apprenticeships, and no offence to them I don't really want to get on a bus where it is oversited by an apprentice who may only have a few weeks of experience, I doubt any heavy maintence will be done just refueling if this is a case. 

However as a user said there wont be enough to run every bus if it is a Bus V Engineer ratio

some apprentices may choose to assume other responsibilities, or some may work to rule.

apprenticeships last several years and include people with a broad range of experience, by the way - you've probably been on buses that have been serviced and overhauled by an apprentice. i assume those who started 'a few weeks ago' won't be doing safety critical maintenance.

i don't believe it is run by a bus v engineer ratio at GNE, due to the existing staffing issues.

(10 Dec 2022, 9:38 pm)omnicity4659 wrote some apprentices may choose to assume other responsibilities, or some may work to rule.

apprenticeships last several years and include people with a broad range of experience, by the way - you've probably been on buses that have been serviced and overhauled by an apprentice. i assume those who started 'a few weeks ago' won't be doing safety critical maintenance.

i don't believe it is run by a bus v engineer ratio at GNE, due to the existing staffing issues.

I agree, but they're apprentices for a reason. 

Looking at a previous press-release off their website, they're 4 years long, and in 2021 they recruited 19 from what I can find.

And don't forget they need 1 day at college and a maximum hours of 40 hours a week (including college time) and they're not supposed to work at night, not sure if this is just under 18s

(10 Dec 2022, 9:56 pm)Unber43 wrote And don't forget they need 1 day at college and a maximum hours of 40 hours a week (including college time) and they're not supposed to work at night, not sure if this is just under 18s

only one of those happens in real life.

(10 Dec 2022, 8:56 pm)morritt89 wrote I believe that engineers are needed for a bus to go out in service:

Engineers need to sign defect cards on a morning when defects are identified,

Attending breakdowns and fixing faults,

Fuelling and shunting in the depot as well as operation of the wash,

PSV/MOT tests.

I wonder if a service reduction will be in operation during the strike days? I'm sure someone told me there needs to be a minimum amount of engineers for buses to go out in service however this may not be true but looking at the above list, things could go wrong quickly for GNE.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Arriva Yorkshire and Stagecoach Yorkshire are the only two places that I know engineers have joined on strike action and both shut down completely but driver's were striking aswell so isn't really a fair comparison.

I'll be surprised if much runs though as if there's limited staff doing all that unless they work extended hours then nothing will be ready to run.

(10 Dec 2022, 10:44 pm)Storx wrote unless they work extended hours then nothing will be ready to run.

a lot of engineering staff are doing large amounts of overtime already, it would be an even bigger shitshow if they chose not to.

(10 Dec 2022, 10:49 pm)omnicity4659 wrote a lot of engineering staff are doing large amounts of overtime already, it would be an even bigger shitshow if they chose not to.

If they are, then the state of GNE in the engineer department...must be abysmal.

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(10 Dec 2022, 10:44 pm)Storx wrote Yeah that's what I was thinking. Arriva Yorkshire and Stagecoach Yorkshire are the only two places that I know engineers have joined on strike action and both shut down completely but driver's were striking aswell so isn't really a fair comparison.

I'll be surprised if much runs though as if there's limited staff doing all that unless they work extended hours then nothing will be ready to run.

Hopefully GNE put out something with a limited service and make people well aware with a lot of people probs using the bus before christmas.