I know this has been brought up recently and I think it needs its own thread, so I went to Newcastle today and got 6334 or 6335 (can't remember), and an E400, and tbh the state of the buses were awful, tables sticky (it was like the second route the bus had been on for that day), penis drawn on "cream" leather, and 6334 or 6335 that a disgrace, the headrests they were black, i've dropped some screenshots about how they looked.

Aswell heating seems to be a massive issue on the entire fleet, I understand it takes time to warm up however on 7 of the buses I went on today I couldn't feel the heat on 6 of them.

Thats why you never put nice buses on school routes.

(09 Dec 2022, 9:29 pm)Unber43 wrote I know this has been brought up recently and I think it needs its own thread, so I went to Newcastle today and got 6334 or 6335 (can't remember), and an E400, and tbh the state of the buses were awful, tables sticky (it was like the second route the bus had been on for that day), penis drawn on "cream" leather, and 6334 or 6335 that a disgrace, the headrests they were black, i've dropped some screenshots about how they looked.

Aswell heating seems to be a massive issue on the entire fleet, I understand it takes time to warm up however on 7 of the buses I went on today I couldn't feel the heat on 6 of them.

Thats why you never put nice buses on school routes.

I think that's 6334, I got it late today and on the back like 5/6 rows on each side there's sharpie on the headrests, seats are snapped etc. Seeming you brought it up I will say I got an X21 today and I'm honestly considering buying a heater to put in my bag so I can plug it in on the bus they've been that cold.

And thats GNE's fault how exactly?, surely its them fulfilling the stated capacity with whatever bus is available at the time, whilst also making that said bus available by running off another service?, GNE cant be held accountable for the yobs that decide its okay to vandalise a bus, as for the heating, again, due to staffing issues maybe thats why it hasnt been fixed, but as for 6 of the 7 not having working heating,i personally dont think thats even true, its just you sniping at GNE because you can

5503, the "Arriva" branded X66 Volvo saloon is a disgrace inside.

Very odd stains on the seats towards the back, graffiti on the back of seats and an old blue seat bottom with the red seat back.

It looks like something a dodgy low cost operator would use, rather than an award winning company.

(09 Dec 2022, 9:40 pm)V514DFT wrote And thats GNE's fault how exactly?, surely its them fulfilling the stated capacity with whatever bus is available at the time, whilst also making that said bus available by running off another service?, GNE cant be held accountable for the yobs that decide its okay to vandalise a bus, as for the heating, again, due to staffing issues maybe thats why it hasnt been fixed, but as for 6 of the 7 not having working heating,i personally dont think thats even true, its just you sniping at GNE because you can

The bus shouldn't be on the road in that state. It's their fault as so many buses are off the road so they can't make repairs. I've never seen buses in that state on any other operator up here nor the Metro either - which has much worse customers. Other's might be the same, as it's the type of post you usually get on here, but it's not a race to the bottom.

They literally sell X Lines as a premium brand, that's as premium as a Westler Burger.

(09 Dec 2022, 9:40 pm)V514DFT wrote And thats GNE's fault how exactly?, surely its them fulfilling the stated capacity with whatever bus is available at the time, whilst also making that said bus available by running off another service?, GNE cant be held accountable for the yobs that decide its okay to vandalise a bus, as for the heating, again, due to staffing issues maybe thats why it hasnt been fixed, but as for 6 of the 7 not having working heating,i personally dont think thats even true, its just you sniping at GNE because you can

6334/6335 have mainly been on scholars which probably explains the state of them. Again they can't really be held accountable for that, all they can do is allocate a G1 instead

(09 Dec 2022, 9:29 pm)Unber43 wrote I know this has been brought up recently and I think it needs its own thread, so I went to Newcastle today and got 6334 or 6335 (can't remember), and an E400, and tbh the state of the buses were awful, tables sticky (it was like the second route the bus had been on for that day), penis drawn on "cream" leather, and 6334 or 6335 that a disgrace, the headrests they were black, i've dropped some screenshots about how they looked.

Aswell heating seems to be a massive issue on the entire fleet, I understand it takes time to warm up however on 7 of the buses I went on today I couldn't feel the heat on 6 of them.

Thats why you never put nice buses on school routes.

This sort of vandalism is why Arriva opted against headrests for their new orders. It costs a ridiculous amount of money for a new headrest, and given how many are slashed/drawn on it just isn't worth it. I would say that the cream headrests were always a ridiculous design choice though, they looked good for about 5 minutes but unless you're going to clean them properly every night then they generally look very scruffy - absolutely zero desire created!

To be honest, while that damage could have been from school routes, it's just as likely to have been from any regular service. I know ANE, Ashington anyway, used Sapphire vehicles in the past on school work with very little issue compared to what they were getting on evening X21 & 35 runs.

For what was formerly considered GNE's "flagship" services, in a way, the reliability of the 21/X21 has certainly gone down the drain. I'm seeing Omnidekkas, Eclipses, Versas, etc. on the 21 on pretty much a daily basis at this point.

Someone waiting for the 21 would expect the bus to have leather seats, tables, WiFi, NSA's and plug socket. Not a 15 year old ex-GNW castoff with literally none of those features and a cold, musty atmosphere inside.

Ironically, if I randomly saw the "as posh as your car" slogan on an Angel, and my car was a 20 year old Ford Fiesta, then I still wouldn't be convinced to start catching that instead.

Arriva's "Sapphire" routes are no better, which is probably why they're gradually phasing that brand out. What's the point on marketing routes as "high spec" if they're just gonna be allocated 21 year old Geminis and 14 year old Solos that haven't even been repainted in their life?

(10 Dec 2022, 12:22 am)wibblejunior wrote For what was formerly considered GNE's "flagship" services, in a way, the reliability of the 21/X21 has certainly gone down the drain. I'm seeing Omnidekkas, Eclipses, Versas, etc. on the 21 on pretty much a daily basis at this point.

Someone waiting for the 21 would expect the bus to have leather seats, tables, WiFi, NSA's and plug socket. Not a 15 year old ex-GNW castoff with literally none of those features and a cold, musty atmosphere inside.

Ironically, if I randomly saw the "as posh as your car" slogan on an Angel, and my car was a 20 year old Ford Fiesta, then I still wouldn't be convinced to start catching that instead.

Arriva's "Sapphire" routes are no better, which is probably why they're gradually phasing that brand out. What's the point on marketing routes as "high spec" if they're just gonna be allocated 21 year old Geminis and  14 year old Solos that haven't even been repainted in their life?

i'm yet to meet anyone who ditch their nice  warm, safe car for the 21 cause its advertised as having tables and leather seats!

(10 Dec 2022, 9:08 am)Rob44 wrote i'm yet to meet anyone who ditch their nice  warm, safe car for the 21 cause its advertised as having tables and leather seats!

Should operators use dealer stock buses with no extras?

(10 Dec 2022, 9:58 am)DeltaMan wrote Should operators use dealer stock buses with no extras?

In my view, and that of those in the office with me know they would rather a bus turned up the have loads and bells and whistle. As one lad told me i"ts nice to have a table, a nice seat and heat but it makes F**K all diffence to me when it doesnt turn up and im soaked to the skin  and freezing!"

(10 Dec 2022, 9:58 am)DeltaMan wrote Should operators use dealer stock buses with no extras?

For a high density commuter route like the 21, 309 etc then yes, perhaps a longer distance route like the X10 you’d want it 

the tables are awkward and going backwards is not enjoyable. Does snakes and ladders on a table create desire? 

Arguably, even Wi-Fi isnt necessary. It’s limited and slow. 

spend the money on driver recruitment, maintenance and improving the outside the bus experience for passengers.

As I sat last week on an ageing leaky omnidekka I was more relieved to have a seat and actual legroom

(10 Dec 2022, 9:58 am)DeltaMan wrote Should operators use dealer stock buses with no extras?

Personally, I think having Tables, USB's, Wireless Chargers is a nice and it does attract me to the bus, especially if I lived on a route where they're regular e.g X1 and I wanted to go to Newcastle, every 15 mins, 30 mins on a night I would if I had a car. And for tables if I am with 2 or more people I tend to sit on them its nice.

However if it was a EG Rider no thanks.

---

(09 Dec 2022, 10:30 pm)DeltaMan wrote 5503, the "Arriva" branded X66 Volvo saloon is a disgrace inside.

Very odd stains on the seats towards the back, graffiti on the back of seats and an old blue seat bottom with the red seat back.

It looks like something a dodgy low cost operator would use, rather than an award winning company.

Tbf, its the entire fleet. 

Plastic behind the seats cut out, seats being cut, pen marks, USB's not working, Dest Displays not working. 

I remember someone saying GNE budget was low or maintence and I think they're right buses aren't being looked at untill its needs to be buy law. I was on a 17 plate Streetlite and I think 6 USb chargers out of 40 were working, its not good enough. 

You report anything like this and they say "did u tell the driver" what is that going to do, I heard a driver complaining about something they put on the defect sheet two weeks ago which still hadn't been looked out, good job trying to get USBs fixed, or headrests which have been cut open.

(10 Dec 2022, 11:21 am)Rob44 wrote In my view, and that of those in the office with me know they would rather a bus turned up the have loads and bells and whistle. As one lad told me i"ts nice to have a table, a nice seat and heat but it makes F**K all diffence to me when it doesnt turn up and im soaked to the skin  and freezing!"

As someone who gets the bus on a daily basis and as someone who is learning to drive, for me to keep getting the bus once I pass my test, It would have to have USBs, comfy seats etc for me to get it but also someone who lives on the outskirts of GNE's network in a sense. I feel with the tables etc is more to keep the current passengers. For me someone who lives in Seaham to get to Newcastle I would have to either get the 60 then the 65/61 (both reduced and then the 62 was axed) and the X6 but they're always rammed, then the X10 or stay on the 60 for 35m and then get the 56. Other than the X10 and occasionally the 61 depending on allocations don't have chargers. With timings, the 65 from Seaham arrives at DP 10 mins after the X10 leaves, the X6 20 mins after, and the 61 gets you there 5 mins before or 30 mins after but not to mention every time I've got the X10 from Dalton Park excluding on a Sunday, I've had to stand to Newcastle and tbh it's not that bad but I haven't been able to take advantage of tables, comfy seats, USB etc.

But if I lived in Chopwell, Rowlands Gill, Winlaton, Stanley, Consett, the 10's corridor. For any of them, I would be much more likely to get the bus to Newcastle even after all the cuts once I can drive because it would be so much easier, but with me living so far I would get the car as the connections are better. The last X10 I could get is 20:20, so I would miss a 65 and a 61A at DP so I either have to get picked up or wait an hour for a 61A then change onto a 60. 

I know GNE can't run services all over the place to everywhere, so an X1 extension to Seaham might not be bad for a trial run. 

So the latest bus I could get from Newcastle is the 21:45 56, which is late I'll admit but it gets into Sunderland with a 7-minute connection as the 23:30 only goes to Seaham so I would have to walk, but again not to mention the 60/56 doesn't have chargers that work.

Over the whole 56 fleets including the corporate (6087 and the Pride bus), I've found 3 sockets that actually worked out of all of them, obviously, it'll be very hard to check them all, every socket, every bus.

(09 Dec 2022, 10:30 pm)DeltaMan wrote 5503, the "Arriva" branded X66 Volvo saloon is a disgrace inside.

Very odd stains on the seats towards the back, graffiti on the back of seats and an old blue seat bottom with the red seat back.

It looks like something a dodgy low cost operator would use, rather than an award winning company.

Tbf that is something I've never seen in ages, a wrong moquette seat and I think ive only seen it once in years and that is on a Prince Bishops which had a blue seat headrest.

(10 Dec 2022, 12:10 am)mb134 wrote This sort of vandalism is why Arriva opted against headrests for their new orders. It costs a ridiculous amount of money for a new headrest, and given how many are slashed/drawn on it just isn't worth it. I would say that the cream headrests were always a ridiculous design choice though, they looked good for about 5 minutes but unless you're going to clean them properly every night then they generally look very scruffy - absolutely zero desire created!

To be honest, while that damage could have been from school routes, it's just as likely to have been from any regular service. I know ANE, Ashington anyway, used Sapphire vehicles in the past on school work with very little issue compared to what they were getting on evening X21 & 35 runs.

In a pre-covid market......yes good intentions by GNE but now is the time to re-adapt. 

Northumbria's new E400MMCs tick all the boxes even without some of the bells & whistles....

- Clean and comfy - seats fine although not high backed

- Exterior and bodywork clean

- USBs and WiFi

It's entirely possible to provide a reasonable level of service and give customers creature comforts inside the vehicle to give passengers a reasonable level of comfort. But it's up to the operator to maintain them.

The extras have virtually no bearing on service delivery. So they are a red herring in my book.

As somebody that spent an afternoon on a bench seated Leyland Olympian at a rally during the summer, I hope we never go back to those days. Although some of the GNE Versas and ANE Decker's I've seen are pretty close....

(10 Dec 2022, 12:37 pm)L469 YVK wrote In a pre-covid market......yes good intentions by GNE but now is the time to re-adapt. 

Northumbria's new E400MMCs tick all the boxes even without some of the bells & whistles....

- Clean and comfy - seats fine although not high backed

- Exterior and bodywork clean

- USBs and WiFi

The only thing on the buses I care about are decent seats and USBs, I think tables are a more luxury option and I don't really care for them at all.

(10 Dec 2022, 12:02 pm)nova347 wrote As someone who gets the bus on a daily basis and as someone who is learning to drive, for me to keep getting the bus once I pass my test, It would have to have USBs, comfy seats etc for me to get it but also someone who lives on the outskirts of GNE's network in a sense. I feel with the tables etc is more to keep the current passengers. For me someone who lives in Seaham to get to Newcastle I would have to either get the 60 then the 65/61 (both reduced and then the 62 was axed) and the X6 but they're always rammed, then the X10 or stay on the 60 for 35m and then get the 56. Other than the X10 and occasionally the 61 depending on allocations don't have chargers. With timings, the 65 from Seaham arrives at DP 10 mins after the X10 leaves, the X6 20 mins after, and the 61 gets you there 5 mins before or 30 mins after but not to mention every time I've got the X10 from Dalton Park excluding on a Sunday, I've had to stand to Newcastle and tbh it's not that bad but I haven't been able to take advantage of tables, comfy seats, USB etc.

But if I lived in Chopwell, Rowlands Gill, Winlaton, Stanley, Consett, the 10's corridor. For any of them, I would be much more likely to get the bus to Newcastle even after all the cuts once I can drive because it would be so much easier, but with me living so far I would get the car as the connections are better. The last X10 I could get is 20:20, so I would miss a 65 and a 61A at DP so I either have to get picked up or wait an hour for a 61A then change onto a 60. 

I know GNE can't run services all over the place to everywhere, so an X1 extension to Seaham might not be bad for a trial run. 

So the latest bus I could get from Newcastle is the 21:45 56, which is late I'll admit but it gets into Sunderland with a 7-minute connection as the 23:30 only goes to Seaham so I would have to walk, but again not to mention the 60/56 doesn't have chargers that work.

Over the whole 56 fleets including the corporate (6087 and the Pride bus), I've found 3 sockets that actually worked out of all of them, obviously, it'll be very hard to check them all, every socket, every bus.

as someone who HAD to use the bus to get to work, then learned to frive and drover to work i think you underestimate how conveient  and bus, gne, arriva or SCNE are compared to the car

(10 Dec 2022, 1:12 pm)Rob44 wrote as someone who HAD to use the bus to get to work, then learned to frive and drover to work i think you underestimate how conveient  and bus, gne, arriva or SCNE are compared to the car

I understand that with a car you can go wherever whenever, but for some people its easier, like my mam, she works in Sunderland and she drives, she use to work on the outskirts and drove but then the office moved into Sunderland city centre and while she still does drive, she had gotten the bus a few times there and back however one of her complaints is that first its freezen and the 60s are always late and busy especially when there are 2 optare solos back to back and she has to stand for the whole journey.

(10 Dec 2022, 6:09 pm)nova347 wrote I understand that with a car you can go wherever whenever, but for some people its easier, like my mam, she works in Sunderland and she drives, she use to work on the outskirts and drove but then the office moved into Sunderland city centre and while she still does drive, she had gotten the bus a few times there and back however one of her complaints is that first its freezing and the 60s are always late and busy especially when there are 2 optare solos back to back and she has to stand for the whole journey.

i can see why city parking and congestion might be a problem. and the fun police  ( who im having to pick up tonight ) get a network travel ticket at a reduce price ( and was FREE during Covid). but means she doesnt have to walk through town tonight when it will be full of idoits, ill be there on time will the bus? it wont have ripped seats, rain pouring in etc etc. and i would drop her off at our house saving a 10 minute walk from the bus stop down a icey downhill foot-path. Now which would you say was easier for her? me playing taxi or her relying on a GNE paid for from Durham County Council  tax payers?

Everyones different though but like ive said no one in there right mind would dump the car to go on the bus at the minute

(10 Dec 2022, 6:41 pm)Rob44 wrote i can see why city parking and congestion might be a problem. and the fun police  ( who im having to pick up tonight ) get a network travel ticket at a reduce price ( and was FREE during Covid). but means she doesnt have to walk through town tonight when it will be full of idoits, ill be there on time will the bus? it wont have ripped seats, rain pouring in etc etc. and i would drop her off at our house saving a 10 minute walk from the bus stop down a icey downhill foot-path. Now which would you say was easier for her? me playing taxi or her relying on a GNE paid for from Durham County Council  tax payers?

Everyones different though but like ive said no one in there right mind would dump the car to go on the bus at the minute

Those are all valid points but having a bus there, on time and suitable for the route and passenger numbers all help.

(09 Dec 2022, 9:29 pm)Unber43 wrote I know this has been brought up recently and I think it needs its own thread, so I went to Newcastle today and got 6334 or 6335 (can't remember), and an E400, and tbh the state of the buses were awful, tables sticky (it was like the second route the bus had been on for that day), penis drawn on "cream" leather, and 6334 or 6335 that a disgrace, the headrests they were black, i've dropped some screenshots about how they looked.

Aswell heating seems to be a massive issue on the entire fleet, I understand it takes time to warm up however on 7 of the buses I went on today I couldn't feel the heat on 6 of them.

Thats why you never put nice buses on school routes.

There's clearly issues.
How much was preventative and how much wasn't is probably where this conversation needs to go.

Older buses have been purchased or allocated to the scholars and contracted routes for a reason. Except they're not always being allocated. Maintenance issues? Cost issues? Budgeting or cash flow reasons? 
To fulfil the contracts, it's looking like these higher spec vehicles are being sent out - with the end result, being this. And additional repair bills. 

I'd argue that under the previous regime, too much money was spent on titivations and improving passenger perception through those titivations. 
Now? It looks like the budget for everything is being slashed. Or from the outside in that appears to be the case.

bring back the plastic seats from northumbria days!!!

Going back to the office after the pandemic, I gave up on the 21 in favour of my car for 2 reasons. The ever increasing fares and the unsuitable buses.

All day parking can be had in certain car parks on the periphery of Newcastle for £4.50, which is less than a return from my nearest bus stop. As I work some days from home, a bus pass isn't worthwhile, so it's a no brainer to drive.

In terms of the buses, in my opinion, the tables were a terrible choice for a route like the 21 where most people make short journeys and high capacity is needed. When using the bus, I mostly travel alone as do most people in rush hour, so on a crowded journey, ending up sat around a table with 3 strangers, none of who want to be in that situation either is enough to put me off the bus. No amount of patchy WiFi or plug sockets will make up for that.

Funnily enough, I've used the 21 twice in the last few months and my journeys were on 6126 and 6188. Despite their age and lack of features, both were comfortable, warm and far preferable to the allocated buses for me.

As suggested above, a basic set of buses with a sensible layout and reasonable fares would be more likely to attract me back than a load of gimmicks.

You must have found the seat on 6188 where the heating worked.

One thing I've noticed which I never saw under the previous Managing Director was seats which had mis-match moquette, ive been on buses which are in the Go Seats which have the Go-Ahead London seats (I must say they were the most comfiest ones in the fleet), 47's with Xlines Interior, StreetLites with Go Headrests.

(20 Dec 2022, 9:53 pm)Unber43 wrote One thing I've noticed which I never saw under the previous Managing Director was seats which had mis-match moquette, ive been on buses which are in the Go Seats which have the Go-Ahead London seats (I must say they were the most comfiest ones in the fleet), 47's with Xlines Interior, StreetLites with Go Headrests.

Nah it did happen under MG too, 6001 being an example of this prior to interior refresh

(21 Dec 2022, 1:11 am)Jimmi wrote Nah it did happen under MG too, 6001 being an example of this prior to interior refresh

hmm, i guess i just never saw it.

Was on 6129 last night.

The smell of foist hit as soon as I got near the saloon doors. Cakes smushed up on the floor and rust caking the window hoppers.

Aye, it had just been on scholars earlier in the day. But these punters on the X50 are potential passengers on a commercial service.
Are they likely to be impressed? Are they likely to know that not all buses are of the same standard? 

Had a look on BusTimes and noticed that the same bus had been on commercial work recently, including the X21.

It's worth noting that I chose the X50 because commercial services weren't an option.
The X10 would have worked, but if it doesn't run at a sensible time, people can't use it.