(29 Nov 2022, 8:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote X21 and 21 are goldmines compared to a few 'local services'.

6, 8, 12, 27, 34, 49, 49A, 51, 52, 53, 54, 57, 58, 93, 94, 62, 201, 206, 208, 209, 210, Q3, X30, X31, X6.

Cancel all those aswell? All secondary routes, all impacted by depot closures within the last 10 year.

(30 Nov 2022, 11:12 am)Storx wrote 6, - 8 miles to Riverside or Consett
8, - on route (Washington??)
12, - Depot nearby
27, - Depot not much further
34, - Can't comment
49, 49A, - Depot on route
51, 52, - Depot nearby
53, 54, - Depot nearby
57, - Depot nearby
58, - Depot nearby
93, 94, - Depot nearby
62, 201, 206, 208, 209, 210,
Q3, - Depot nearby
X30, X31, - 8 miles to Consett and interworks with X45
X6. - Can't comment

Cancel all those aswell? All secondary routes, all impacted by depot closures within the last 10 year.

51, 52, 53, 54 (Interwork) - 5.3 Mile or 12 minutes including an Ashington board 0 miles
43, 44, 45 (Interwork) - 5.3 Mile or 12 minutes including Morpeth boards where Ashington are already based
55 - Awkward One

Gateshead to Riverside is 3.3 Mile or 8 minutes and there's an awful lot more buses doing it.

It's virtually the same as most of those.

The X30/X31/X45 interworking isn't working either as the X45 is quite often late and so is a lot of other routes lately because of squeezing timetables too much. The X21 4/5 minute layover is utter farcical for the length of the route, it's no wonder it's 20+ minutes late all the time.

(30 Nov 2022, 11:41 pm)Storx wrote 51, 52, 53, 54 (Interwork) - 5.3 Mile or 12 minutes including an Ashington board 0 miles
43, 44, 45 (Interwork) - 5.3 Mile or 12 minutes including Morpeth boards where Ashington are already based
55 - Awkward One

Gateshead to Riverside is 3.3 Mile or 8 minutes and there's an awful lot more buses doing it.

It's virtually the same as most of those.

The X30/X31/X45 interworking isn't working either as the X45 is quite often late and so is a lot of other routes lately because of squeezing timetables too much. The X21 4/5 minute layover is utter farcical for the length of the route, it's no wonder it's 20+ minutes late all the time.

But tbf even services which have large layovers are going NIS, the 39As are constantly cancelled due to delayed operations, 21 which have 7 mins at CLS & Newcastle are going NIS. 

56's which have about 12 mins, same as the 60 are constantly late, the 56 is appalling on a night they're never on time.

Same with the 22/23 they're always late.

(01 Dec 2022, 8:45 am)Unber43 wrote But tbf even services which have large layovers are going NIS, the 39As are constantly cancelled due to delayed operations, 21 which have 7 mins at CLS & Newcastle are going NIS. 

56's which have about 12 mins, same as the 60 are constantly late, the 56 is appalling on a night they're never on time.

Same with the 22/23 they're always late.

Probably tight timetables, just to put into context the 21 only has an extra 6 minutes between CLS over the X12. Either one has too much time or the other too little considering the 21 stops at every stop and the X12 runs not stop half the time.

(30 Nov 2022, 11:41 pm)Storx wrote The X30/X31/X45 interworking isn't working either as the X45 is quite often late and so is a lot of other routes lately because of squeezing timetables too much. The X21 4/5 minute layover is utter farcical for the length of the route, it's no wonder it's 20+ minutes late all the time.

More for the GNE thread this one (can continue discussion there), but with presumably the 6 needing relief at Stanley, opening the bait room there and having.........

- X45 standalone (full height deckers)
- X30/X31 standalone using 6338-40 + 6336 & 37 as Consett's low bridge spares
- 6341-55 at Riverside all for the X10/X21 (with 1 or 2 spare depending on long term X21 PVR)

Would be the most sensible option. Standardises fleet and gives all the E400MMCs a turn at being hammered on the X10 rather than a select few.

(01 Dec 2022, 1:39 pm)L469 YVK wrote More for the GNE thread this one (can continue discussion there), but with presumably the 6 needing relief at Stanley, opening the bait room there and having.........

- X45 standalone (full height deckers)
- X30/X31 standalone using 6338-40 + 6336 & 37 as Consett's low bridge spares
- 6341-55 at Riverside all for the X10/X21 (with 1 or 2 spare depending on long term X21 PVR)

Would be the most sensible option. Standardises fleet and gives all the E400MMCs a turn at being hammered on the X10 rather than a select few.

What about X71/X72

(01 Dec 2022, 6:04 pm)nova347 wrote What about X71/X72

Doesn't need a low bridge decker. Only X30/X31 do.

(01 Dec 2022, 6:53 pm)L469 YVK wrote Doesn't need a low bridge decker. Only X30/X31 do.

Yer but if all the 400MMC's go to Riverside then what will go on the X71/X72

08 Jan 2023

PB0002032/458
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 51 (51) Newcastle Whitley Bay

(08 Dec 2022, 7:55 pm)Michael wrote 08 Jan 2023

PB0002032/458
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 51 (51) Newcastle Whitley Bay

Cancelled or timetable or route changes. Wonder what this could be

Service 86 from Bishop Auckland College to Trimdon will be retimed to depart from Bishop College at 12:05 instead of 17:05 on Fridays (term time only) from January owing to earlier finishing times on a Friday (that are already in place but only now timetable is being amended accordingly)

(08 Dec 2022, 11:16 pm)Aaron21 wrote Cancelled or timetable or route changes. Wonder what this could be

Variation

Found the 51 timetable change. Its being cut from Whitley Bay metro. This can be found by going onto the 51 timetable on bustimes.org and setting the date to Monday 9th January

As we are now just over a week away from the Arriva 685 being cancelled, and it will no longer be a shared operation, I'm looking into the history of the route.

Can anyone help please?

I believe the 685 was introduced by United some time in the 1930s, and was operated by 2 depots, Hexham and Carlisle?

Stagecoach began operating the 685 in 1986, upon privatisation? Arriva of course being formed in 1997 having been T. Cowie Ltd previously.

Arriva North East and Go North East swapped Hexham/Ashington depots in 2010, but Arriva Northumbria took on the 685 (Go North East later introducing the X84/X85)? Northumbria Motor Services operated the 684 presumably tendered, and OK Travel won this and was acquired by Go Ahead?

Please help!

(12 Jan 2023, 12:20 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote As we are now just over a week away from the Arriva 685 being cancelled, and it will no longer be a shared operation, I'm looking into the history of the route.

Can anyone help please?

I believe the 685 was introduced by United some time in the 1930s, and was operated by 2 depots, Hexham and Carlisle?

Stagecoach began operating the 685 in 1986, upon privatisation? Arriva of course being formed in 1997 having been T. Cowie Ltd previously.

Arriva North East and Go North East swapped Hexham/Ashington depots in 2010, but Arriva Northumbria took on the 685 (Go North East later introducing the X84/X85)? Northumbria Motor Services operated the 684 presumably tendered, and OK Travel won this and was acquired by Go Ahead?

Please help!

United became Northumbria north of the river post de-reg. 
Through mergers and acquisitions, it eventually became Arriva North East. 

https://carlislebus.co.uk/history_of_bus...lisle.html

Here's a history of operators at the Western end of the route.
Ribble, Cumberland, Carlisle, Stagecoach Cumberland etc
https://www.flickr.com/photos/carlisle1457/52369079387/

(12 Jan 2023, 12:56 pm)Andreos1 wrote United became Northumbria north of the river post de-reg. 
Through mergers and acquisitions, it eventually became Arriva North East. 

https://carlislebus.co.uk/history_of_bus...lisle.html

Here's a history of operators at the Western end of the route.
Ribble, Cumberland, Carlisle, Stagecoach Cumberland etc
https://www.flickr.com/photos/carlisle1457/52369079387/

Interesting. Thanks.

Amazing how the 685 has continued to be operated by 2 operators for so long. End of an era.

Disappointing there hasn't been a farewell event to mark the occasion. Quite a long history. Sure it was the 1930s it started, and so many years of shared operation.

(12 Jan 2023, 1:07 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Interesting. Thanks.

Amazing how the 685 has continued to be operated by 2 operators for so long. End of an era.

Disappointing there hasn't been a farewell event to mark the occasion. Quite a long history. Sure it was the 1930s it started, and so many years of shared operation.

The 1968 United timetable shows the Newcastle - Carlisle service (at that time the 334, previously the 34) as operated by United only. United had a depot at Carlisle and operated several services to the east of the city around Brampton and they also ran a service from Carlisle to Alston.
The 1971 United timetable shows the 334 operated jointly between United and Ribble; obviously Ribble vehicles operating out of Carlisle and United out of Hexham or Newcastle. Sometime between those years United had closed its Carlisle depot and  the Brampton and Alston services transferred to Ribble.
Later there was a further transfer of services from Ribble to Cumberland and the United timetable issued immediately before deregulation in 1986 shows the Newcastle - Carlisle service, by then the 685 and variations, as operated by United and Cumberland. Cumberland also operated the Carlisle - Alston and Haltwhistle - Alston services (The Haltwhistle service had been introduced in 1976 following the closure of the Alston railway line and was originally operated by Ribble). and presumably the other services around Brampton.
It's worth keeping an eye on the Timetable World website. Currently there's nothing there to add to what I've already written but new additions are made from time to time.

(12 Jan 2023, 3:38 pm)Ex-conductor wrote The 1968 United timetable shows the Newcastle - Carlisle service (at that time the 334, previously the 34) as operated by United only. United had a depot at Carlisle and operated several services to the east of the city around Brampton and they also ran a service from Carlisle to Alston.
The 1971 United timetable shows the 334 operated jointly between United and Ribble; obviously Ribble vehicles operating out of Carlisle and United out of Hexham or Newcastle. Sometime between those years United had closed its Carlisle depot and  the Brampton and Alston services transferred to Ribble.
Later there was a further transfer of services from Ribble to Cumberland and the United timetable issued immediately before deregulation in 1986 shows the Newcastle - Carlisle service, by then the 685 and variations, as operated by United and Cumberland. Cumberland also operated the Carlisle - Alston and Haltwhistle - Alston services (The Haltwhistle service had been introduced in 1976 following the closure of the Alston railway line and was originally operated by Ribble). and presumably the other services around Brampton.
It's worth keeping an eye on the Timetable World website. Currently there's nothing there to add to what I've already written but new additions are made from time to time.

So in real terms, the 685 hasn't been around that long and presumably has existed for the same amount of time as the equivalent 684?

Thank you for the info. Never knew about the 34/334 before the 685. 

Just curious, who owned North Rider and what happened to them?

(12 Jan 2023, 10:24 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote So in real terms, the 685 hasn't been around that long and presumably has existed for the same amount of time as the equivalent 684?

Thank you for the info. Never knew about the 34/334 before the 685. 

Just curious, who owned North Rider and what happened to them?

As far as I can remember, route number 685 came about when Tyne and Wear PTE brought in a significant change in route numbers, at about the time that the Metro started running around 1980, with services to the west of Newcastle and Gateshead being numbered 6xx. This applied mainly to the south of the Tyne, for example in Blaydon, Ryton, Winlaton, and Rowland's Gill, as well as what is now GNE service 10 to Hexham and Prudhoe (United 600 - 604).
The post-deregulation TWPTE timetable shows the 685 along with the 686 (Newcastle - Wylam - Ovingham, equivalent to today's 684), and some variations where some late evening and Sunday services ran to Carlisle via the 686 route and were numbered 695 and 696.

I remember North Rider, but don't have any further information at the moment.

---

Further to my last post, the numbering of routes into 6xx format was earlier than I thought. On Timetable World there's a copy of the TWPTE timetable for 1977 in which the 685 appears, along with other services along and to the south of the A69. As I mentioned in a previous post, it's well worth keeping an eye on this website for new additions which help to answer queries about bus services in the past.

From memory North Rider was set up by an ex Percy Main/go coastline manager called Eddie Ward if my memory serves me correctly.

(12 Jan 2023, 12:20 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote As we are now just over a week away from the Arriva 685 being cancelled, and it will no longer be a shared operation, I'm looking into the history of the route.

Can anyone help please?

I believe the 685 was introduced by United some time in the 1930s, and was operated by 2 depots, Hexham and Carlisle?

Stagecoach began operating the 685 in 1986, upon privatisation? Arriva of course being formed in 1997 having been T. Cowie Ltd previously.

Arriva North East and Go North East swapped Hexham/Ashington depots in 2010, but Arriva Northumbria took on the 685 (Go North East later introducing the X84/X85)? Northumbria Motor Services operated the 684 presumably tendered, and OK Travel won this and was acquired by Go Ahead?

Please help!

The 685 and previous 34/334 have been around a long time and actually hasn’t changed that much. It was originally operated by United, who at that time operated services to the east of the Carlisle; they had their own depot and bus station in Carlisle. I think it was 1970 when the National Bus Company transferred the United Carlisle operations to Ribble so the 334 became jointly operated by United and Ribble. In 1986, in preparation for NBC privatisation the Cumbria operations of Ribble were transferred to Cumberland Motor services. At round about the same, for the same reasons, United’s Northumberland area became a new company - Northumbria Motor Services. The 685 became operated by Northumbria and Cumberland. Eventually Cumberland was acquired by Stagecoach and Northumbria by Arriva, which is where we are now, or at least until next week when the 685 becomes operated by Stagecoach North East and Stagecoach Cumbria and North Lancashire. I hope this helps, I’m sure others can add to this or make any corrections.

(12 Jan 2023, 12:20 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote As we are now just over a week away from the Arriva 685 being cancelled, and it will no longer be a shared operation, I'm looking into the history of the route.

Can anyone help please?

I believe the 685 was introduced by United some time in the 1930s, and was operated by 2 depots, Hexham and Carlisle?

Stagecoach began operating the 685 in 1986, upon privatisation? Arriva of course being formed in 1997 having been T. Cowie Ltd previously.

Arriva North East and Go North East swapped Hexham/Ashington depots in 2010, but Arriva Northumbria took on the 685 (Go North East later introducing the X84/X85)? Northumbria Motor Services operated the 684 presumably tendered, and OK Travel won this and was acquired by Go Ahead?

Please help!

In the late 1920's, my Grandfather and his three brothers operated various bus services from Newcastle, including service 4 to Carlisle.
They sold operations to United in the early 1930's.



Apologies if attachments are upside down!

(14 Jan 2023, 1:11 pm)forster wrote In the late 1920's, my Grandfather and his three brothers operated various bus services from Newcastle, including service 4 to Carlisle.
They sold operations to United in the early 1930's.



Apologies if attachments are upside down!

That's interesting, thanks a lot for that. So is that what got you interested in buses? 

Actually I thought the attachments were upside down! But they aren't.

Would it be okay to use the attachments? I'm doing a farewell video for the Arriva 685, and marking the start of the 2 Stagecoach companies operating the service and the old 4/34/334 timeline is an interesting one, showing how little the route has changed despite the change of numbers and operators. Go North East could have changed the course of history if they had taken over the Arriva routes in 2010 when they got the Hexham depot.

I have had an interest in buses from an early age, probably from reading all the information that has been passed down to me from my family.

You are welcome to use attachments.

(14 Jan 2023, 3:26 pm)forster wrote I have had an interest in buses from an early age, probably from reading all the information that has been passed down to me from my family.

You are welcome to use attachments.

That's a nice old bus. What service is that doing? 

An incredible legacy.

Much appreciated. Very historical route.

(14 Jan 2023, 1:11 pm)forster wrote In the late 1920's, my Grandfather and his three brothers operated various bus services from Newcastle, including service 4 to Carlisle.
They sold operations to United in the early 1930's.



Apologies if attachments are upside down!

They are the right way up when you open them and amazing mementos. Thank you.

I think that would be service 5, according to late 1920's timetable. (See attached).

(15 Jan 2023, 10:10 am)forster wrote I think that would be service 5, according to late 1920's timetable. (See attached).

Wow, thanks. So today's equivalent would be the X77/X78.

Everything is operated by Stagecoach these days.

I wonder where the most Westerly point served by Arriva in the region will be now, I'm guessing maybe Stanhope?