(15 Feb 2023, 9:03 am)Economic505 wrote I guess there has to be a new body set up, or Nexus reconstituted. The idea of giving  bus companies the power is unpalatable as a tax payer. Basically I ‘m paying GNE to feck around with pretty liveries while they slash and  burn.

Bus companies having power is what's happened since 86.
We all know where that's got us!

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(15 Feb 2023, 9:20 am)Storx wrote Aye neither really work. Least London get to vote for theirs with their Mayor who controls it. 

Agreed though but then again Nexus piss about with awful art and ridiculous videos which are pointless while feral kids are running around wild. 

Lose / lose to me.

I think whoever is in charge will always have some sort of political agenda. 
No matter what they say or promise - public or private dogma will always be at the forefront of any decision being made.

You've then got competence to take in to account. 
It goes without saying that a company or organisation is only as good as the people representing it.
Regardless of any political agenda.

Was looking through the proposed timetable

Why do the 308/309 gain a few more minutes of journey time

(15 Feb 2023, 10:10 am)Aaron21 wrote Was looking through the proposed timetable

Why do the 308/309 gain a few more minutes of journey time

To improve reliability.


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(15 Feb 2023, 9:43 am)Economic505 wrote I agree especially about the kids. They always on scrambler bikes near where I live, wrecking the grass etc yet the police never do anything. However, the traffic police are usually around , targeting drivers etc. it pisses me off.

(15 Feb 2023, 9:54 am)Andreos1 wrote Bus companies having power is what's happened since 86.
We all know where that's got us!

---

I think whoever is in charge will always have some sort of political agenda. 
No matter what they say or promise - public or private dogma will always be at the forefront of any decision being made.

You've then got competence to take in to account. 
It goes without saying that a company or organisation is only as good as the people representing it.
Regardless of any political agenda.

Aye totally agreed with both. Politics in this country is a mess though and has been for years.

The only argument for private up here is at least they have someone who they can give them the boot. Tobyn Hughes in particular seems to just have a free card lately as I really don't know what he's done and there's been leaked rumours of a serious bullying culture within the Metro ranks. Guess that's what happens when you're pretty much undisposible.

If we had a way to vote who's in ie. connected to the mayor then I'd be more supportive as there's too much jobs for mates atm.

Will be interesting to see how the X39 works.

Could work off the 310 with 40 minute gaps between Newcastle and Norham Roaf if reduced to 07:25/08:25 ex Newcastle and 16:05 / 17:05 ex Cobalt.

If wanting 3x journeys in each direction, I'd assume a scheduled misc working would be needed too.

(15 Feb 2023, 8:15 am)Storx wrote Unless there's radical change within Nexus personally I'd hate that. They're incompetent at the finest and blame everyone but the King for their problems. 

Noticed it's now Stadlers fault for the train cancellations which is nothing new. 

Gannon, Hughes and co need the boot but they're pretty much unelected on the transport board.

The stuff in Manchester is a mess aswell and is politically motivated more than anything.

Its hard to disagree with this. 

Judging from the numerous complaints I hear from friends about buses not turning up, NEXUS are blatantly turning a blind eye to the negligence of Gateshead Central Taxis. I would not want them anywhere near a regulated Bus Service if they are not cracking down on what appear to be flagrent breaches of service provision. 

That's not to say there shouldn't be a regulated system. We just need a better transport authority, irrespective of partnership or franchising. After all they couldn't even do basic fare basket modeling correctly for QCS!!

I wonder if when GNE have to ask for new 307 NSAs to be recorded whether they just drop the Cobalt & Coast name. (Fingers Crossed).

I also wonder when they update the vinyls on the side whether they take the opportunity to remove the old ‘Journeys taken care of’ strap line and odd placement of the GNE logo. Although I guess this would leave a mark and still be legible.
…Maybe they could just repaint them into Fleet livery while they’re on. 

(15 Feb 2023, 5:13 pm)DeltaMan wrote Its hard to disagree with this. 

Judging from the numerous complaints I hear from friends about buses not turning up, NEXUS are blatantly turning a blind eye to the negligence of Gateshead Central Taxis. I would not want them anywhere near a regulated Bus Service if they are not cracking down on what appear to be flagrent breaches of service provision. 

That's not to say there shouldn't be a regulated system. We just need a better transport authority, irrespective of partnership or franchising. After all they couldn't even do basic fare basket modeling correctly for QCS!!

I do love how when anyone has a moan about NEXUS services not turning up its Immediately gateshead central who are mentioned. I'm not saying they don't have problems but in Hazlerigg customers were getting the 342? to Kingston park as arriva were so bad and dont get me started on the numbers of GNE services that are secured by  Nexus and DCC that dont turn up!

At least with GNE you know when you're journey isn't going to run..a majority of the time anyway

(16 Feb 2023, 5:59 pm)Unber43 wrote At least with GNE you know when you're journey isn't going to run..a majority of the time anyway

Which makes absolutely no difference if it's an hourly bus service and you've just left work.

Not everyone goes on buses for fun.

(16 Feb 2023, 8:19 pm)Storx wrote Which makes absolutely no difference if it's an hourly bus service and you've just left work.

Not everyone goes on buses for fun.

Lets just say i agree with you, not saying nothing more or i'll get reported......again

(16 Feb 2023, 8:19 pm)Storx wrote Which makes absolutely no difference if it's an hourly bus service and you've just left work.

Not everyone goes on buses for fun.

No i agree. But atleast you know it isn't going to turn up.

imo a hourly bus should never be cancelled, or a half hourly tbh.

Had a think about the evening journeys...........so not exactly a 'clockface' frequency, but would work way better for all Cobalt shift workers based on the conventional 'hour' finish and also even better coordinate the 308 & 309.

Proposed:
307 - xx:00
308 - xx:15
309 - xx:30
306 - xx:45

Suggested:
- 307 - xx:05
- 308 - xx:15
- 306 - xx:35
- 309 - xx:45

GNE 307 & 309
307 ex Newcastle: 19:05
307 arr North Shields: 19:47
307 ex North Shields: 19:48
307 arr Newcastle: 20:35
309 ex Newcastle: 20:45
309 arr Blyth: 21:47
309 ex Blyth: 21:50
309 arr Newcastle: 22:55

ANE 308 & 306 - would now interwork
308 ex Newcastle: 19:15
308 arr Blyth: 20:09
308 ex Blyth: 20:29
308 arr Newcastle: 21:25
306 ex Newcastle: 21:35
306 arr Tynemouth: 22:17
306 ex Tynemouth: 22:24
306 arr Newcastle: 23:05

Note last GNE journey ex Newcastle at 23:45 would operate as 307 and terminate at Norham Road.

Note that last 306 journey ex Tynemouth if 306/308 were to go fully Blyth operated would be 22:24.

(19 Feb 2023, 5:28 pm)L469 YVK wrote Had a think about the evening journeys...........so not exactly a 'clockface' frequency, but would work way better for all Cobalt shift workers based on the conventional 'hour' finish and also even better coordinate the 308 & 309.

Proposed:
307 - 00:00
308 - 00:15
309 - 00:30
306 - 00:45

Suggested:
- 307 - 00:05
- 308 - 00:15
- 306 - 00:35
- 309 - 00:45

GNE 307 & 309
307 ex Newcastle: 00:05
307 arr North Shields: 00:47
307 ex North Shields: 00:48
307 arr Newcastle: 01:35
309 ex Newcastle: 01:45
309 arr Blyth: 02:47
309 ex Blyth: 02:50
309 arr Newcastle: 03:55

ANE 308 & 306 - would now interwork
308 ex Newcastle: 00:15
308 arr Blyth: 01:09
308 ex Blyth: 01:29
308 arr Newcastle: 02:25
306 ex Newcastle: 02:35
306 arr Tynemouth: 03:17
306 ex Tynemouth: 03:24
306 arr Newcastle: 04:05

Note last GNE journey ex Newcastle at 23:45 would operate as 307 and terminate at Norham Road.

Note that last 306 journey ex Tynemouth if 306/308 were to go fully Blyth operated would be 22:24.

Personally I don't see the point in 4 night buses along the Coast Road it's not the busiest corridor in North Tyneside

If there's night buses in North Tyneside it should be something like:
N1: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.97642...6d!1m0!3e0 - Hourly
N2: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.97642...7d!1m0!3e0 - Hourly
N3: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.97746...28!1m0!3e0 - Hourly
N4: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.97663...a0!1m0!3e0 - Hourly
N5: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.97663...31!1m0!3e0 - Hourly

You'd serve where the people actually are. The Metro is by far the busiest routes in North Tyneside hence the service should be there.

The 39/40 would both run hourly aswell but they're not really North Tyneside and that's pretty much everyone served.

London has a different night time network to during the day for the same reason.

(19 Feb 2023, 6:02 pm)Storx wrote Personally I don't see the point in 4 night buses along the Coast Road it's not the busiest corridor in North Tyneside

If there's night buses in North Tyneside it should be something like:
N1: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.97642...6d!1m0!3e0 - Hourly
N2: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.97642...7d!1m0!3e0 - Hourly
N3: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.97746...28!1m0!3e0 - Hourly
N4: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.97663...a0!1m0!3e0 - Hourly
N5: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.97663...31!1m0!3e0 - Hourly

You'd serve where the people actually are. The Metro is by far the busiest routes in North Tyneside hence the service should be there.

The 39/40 would both run hourly aswell but they're not really North Tyneside and that's pretty much everyone served.

London has a different night time network to during the day for the same reason.

Just to clarify, they're not night buses what was suggested haha. I just used the times (i.e 00:15) to illustrate the running times & interworking patterns. I'll change the times to they look more standard.

(19 Feb 2023, 6:47 pm)L469 YVK wrote Just to clarify, they're not night buses what was suggested haha. I just used the times (i.e 00:15) to illustrate the running times & interworking patterns. I'll change the times to they look more standard.

Ah fairs, I thought you were suggesting a few extra late boards there with the timings.

But those night buses may not be the worst idea

Tbh the coast road buses help with Newcastle fans on an evening.

I've used the 306 in evening and it is really busy most of the time

The staffing costs of night buses might render them unviable, I'm always out covering last buses so can't see night buses being much better.

(19 Feb 2023, 10:29 pm)omnicity4659 wrote The staffing costs of night buses might render them unviable, I'm always out covering last buses so can't see night buses being much better.

Aye can't argue about that, tbh it's one of those things which should be subsidised / franchised imo but we sadly don't have the money to do it - can't see them ever being viable otherwise.

They'd need inter working tickets with the Metro aswell as that's where the real punters is. If you work beyond 12am it's pretty much tough luck nowadays really yet they want everyone to stop using cars. Something has to give.

It's poor that areas like the West End and Byker, Wallsend etc can't sustain a night bus though, similar with the Great North Road via Jesmond.

So will the 307/309 be every 15 mins or are they staying at 20

(21 Feb 2023, 12:31 pm)V514DFT wrote So will the 307/309 be every 15 mins or are they staying at 20

All 4 are down to every 20 minutes. 

306/307 - Combined every 10 minutes towards North Shields unsure the other direction.

308/309 - Every 10 minutes towards Blyth

(21 Feb 2023, 2:07 pm)Storx wrote All 4 are down to every 20 minutes. 

306/307 - Combined every 10 minutes towards North Shields unsure the other direction.

308/309 - Every 10 minutes towards Blyth

Ahhhh i see, cheers

Been thinking but if this QA is successful, could it lead to other qualifying agreements such as......

- 684/685 - Hexham - Newcastle

- 1/22 - Churchill Street - Newcastle - maybe both services running every 15 minutes each giving a combined 7/8 minute frequency

- X12/X21 - Durham - Newcastle (maybe X12 re-instated to every 30 mins then via A1M like X21 and re-instating 15 minute express service). Could throw 21 into the mix

(23 Feb 2023, 3:45 am)L469 YVK wrote Been thinking but if this QA is successful, could it lead to other qualifying agreements such as......

- 684/685 - Hexham - Newcastle

- 1/22 - Churchill Street - Newcastle - maybe both services running every 15 minutes each giving a combined 7/8 minute frequency

- X12/X21 - Durham - Newcastle (maybe X12 re-instated to every 30 mins then via A1M like X21 and re-instating 15 minute express service). Could throw 21 into the mix

QA's can only happen if the operators are interested. The LA cannot force it. As is the case with the previous 685 one and the current one, operators made cost or efficiency savings which made the formation of a QA attractive.

Whilst a QA has to pass a number of competition tests to be certified, unless there are tangible benefits to both sides (operator and passenger), then it won't happen, even if it feels obvious.

However, in my opinion, the next most likely is the 6/X21 between Durham and West Auckland.

(23 Feb 2023, 6:36 am)RobinHood wrote QA's can only happen if the operators are interested. The LA cannot force it. As is the case with the previous 685 one and the current one, operators made cost or efficiency savings which made the formation of a QA attractive.

Whilst a QA has to pass a number of competition tests to be certified, unless there are tangible benefits to both sides (operator and passenger), then it won't happen, even if it feels obvious.

However, in my opinion, the next most likely is the 6/X21 between Durham and West Auckland.

Personally can't see the 6/X21, the 6 is a much stronger route than the X21 between the two points so Arriva won't gain anything similar with the X12/X21 or 21.

It's some of the urban corridors especially in Sunderland that need it more.

Chester Road (2/8/16/35/39/78)
City Centre -> Seaham Grange / Dalton (22/23/60/61)
City Centre -> Pennywell (20/39)
Great North Road (Q3/43/44/45)

By far the worst corridors in the North East.

Similar with
Yellow Line Metro / 1
Yellow Line Metro / 26 / 27

They compliment each other but decent ticketing does not exist.

(23 Feb 2023, 10:07 am)Storx wrote Personally can't see the 6/X21, the 6 is a much stronger route than the X21 between the two points so Arriva won't gain anything similar with the X12/X21 or 21.

It's some of the urban corridors especially in Sunderland that need it more.

Chester Road (2/8/16/35/39/78)
City Centre -> Seaham Grange / Dalton (22/23/60/61)
City Centre -> Pennywell (20/39)
Great North Road (Q3/43/44/45)

By far the worst corridors in the North East.

Similar with
Yellow Line Metro / 1
Yellow Line Metro / 26 / 27

They compliment each other but decent ticketing does not exist.

I’m inclined to agree with RobinHood. The 6/X21 between Durham and West Auckland is most definitely a likely candidate for an Enhanced Partnership. I don’t think the 6 is as strong as you assume it is.

There are clear benefits to passengers of mutual ticket acceptance (better evening/Sunday provision, co-ordinated timetable during daytime) which would mean Durham County Council are likely to provide their support for this.

The 20 and 39 in Sunderland are two entirely different routes, serving different purposes (Hylton Road vs Chester Road) so I don’t think there would be any scope for rationalisation here. The Great North Road services are similar (which would you reduce, as it wouldn’t be the Q3?)

I agree there is some scope for rationalisation between the 22/23 and 60/61. In my experience, most customers let the 22/23 go in favour of the 60/61 which are more frequent, but all four buses are probably quieter than they could/should be (which is why we have seen reductions on the 60/61).


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(23 Feb 2023, 10:07 am)Storx wrote Personally can't see the 6/X21, the 6 is a much stronger route than the X21 between the two points so Arriva won't gain anything similar with the X12/X21 or 21.

It's some of the urban corridors especially in Sunderland that need it more.

Chester Road (2/8/16/35/39/78)
City Centre -> Seaham Grange / Dalton (22/23/60/61)
City Centre -> Pennywell (20/39)
Great North Road (Q3/43/44/45)

By far the worst corridors in the North East.

Similar with
Yellow Line Metro / 1
Yellow Line Metro / 26 / 27

They compliment each other but decent ticketing does not exist.

Don't all the arriva " x" service observe the stops along the GN Road? My mate sometimes gets the x21 to brunton when the 44 doesn't turn up and walk to hazlerigg from there?

(23 Feb 2023, 10:20 am)Dan wrote I’m inclined to agree with RobinHood. The 6/X21 between Durham and West Auckland is most definitely a likely candidate for an Enhanced Partnership. I don’t think the 6 is as strong as you assume it is.

There are clear benefits to passengers of mutual ticket acceptance (better evening/Sunday provision, co-ordinated timetable during daytime) which would mean Durham County Council are likely to provide their support for this.

The 20 and 39 in Sunderland are two entirely different routes, serving different purposes (Hylton Road vs Chester Road) so I don’t think there would be any scope for rationalisation here. The Great North Road services are similar (which would you reduce, as it wouldn’t be the Q3?)

I agree there is some scope for rationalisation between the 22/23 and 60/61. In my experience, most customers let the 22/23 go in favour of the 60/61 which are more frequent, but all four buses are probably quieter than they could/should be (which is why we have seen reductions on the 60/61).


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Some fair points about the 6/X21.

Great North Road was more about aligning things together rather than cutting buses so you'd have 12 buses an hour (every 5 minutes) rather than the usual 8 buses an hour plus the Q3 kind of just existing on top with ticketing between both or alternatively scrapping one of the 45's for an X46 instead.

Similar with the 22/23/60 being marketed as a 7.5 minute service rather than them just existing on top of each other. Not sure what you could do with the 61 though, it's like the awkward child similar to the 51 on the Coast Road.

21/X12 is probably a contender too, if there's any desire from the operators. There'd be some sense in the X12 only doing Durham - Teesside, with the 21 doing Durham - Newcastle. Linked is maintained for Arriva customers, at a greater frequency, towards Newcastle. For GNE customers, there'd be the alternative link to Teesside, rather than having to travel Durham - Dalton Park/Peterlee to connect with an X10.