I saw this on LNER website (here) and wondered why/how we haven't had some cheesy slogan from any company or Nexus for any bus corridors. 
I am fully aware of the marketing (yet limited) for the Coast Road being the worst and in the most need but they could do the same for multiple corridors;
Great North Road (3 operators) {buses every few mins to Brunton/Melton Park via Great North Rd) 

Sunderland - Peterlee (2 operators) {buses every 7 mins to Ryhope and beyond with reinstating X6 half hourly or 62 hourly to plug the one gap for this to work}

I am unsure if the 684/685 have joint ticketing - would be logical though.

Some others which would be helpful 
Sunderland - South Shields (2 operators) this would be point to point rather than in between due to routing.
Chester Road (2 operators) unsure of combined freq of operators but would be every few mins
Arnison Centre - Durham (2 operators) unsure of combined freq of operators but would be every few mins

Anyone else have any suggestions?

The primary reason is because operators are mainly competing and not complimenting. They have no interest in telling you about other options which are not theirs. In much the same way Tesco don't tell you it's cheaper to buy something from Asda, for example.

Also, rail is heavily franchised, so there is really no competition there and it's probably within their agreements that they jointly promote things.

Bus is different, less franchising and more commercial. Competition Law plays a hugely significant part of what bus operators are allowed to do, say and share.

(07 Mar 2023, 12:39 am)logidoodah wrote I saw this on LNER website (here) and wondered why/how we haven't had some cheesy slogan from any company or Nexus for any bus corridors. 
I am fully aware of the marketing (yet limited) for the Coast Road being the worst and in the most need but they could do the same for multiple corridors;
Great North Road (3 operators) {buses every few mins to Brunton/Melton Park via Great North Rd) 

Sunderland - Peterlee (2 operators) {buses every 7 mins to Ryhope and beyond with reinstating X6 half hourly or 62 hourly to plug the one gap for this to work}

I am unsure if the 684/685 have joint ticketing - would be logical though.

Some others which would be helpful 
Sunderland - South Shields (2 operators) this would be point to point rather than in between due to routing.
Chester Road (2 operators) unsure of combined freq of operators but would be every few mins
Arnison Centre - Durham (2 operators) unsure of combined freq of operators but would be every few mins

Anyone else have any suggestions?

I guess we had the Superoute fad a while ago - presumably didn't work as it was quietly dropped.

Arnison - Durham is 3 operators - GNE, ANE and, currently, GCT. Annoyingly, GNE's 20 and 21 pretty much follow each other and, on a Sunday, the 50 and 64 leave Durham at pretty much the same time, though the 50 is faster, if you don't mind not bring dropped off in the middle of the Arnison Centre.

In fairness this is more like Go North East and EYMS working together more than anything. All 3 operators are ran by the same concession atm (the government).

It's not possible currently without Nexus or someone else doing it under a QCS Contract otherwise it'll be classed as collusion and breaking competition laws.

What about the A690 from Park Lane/ Fawcett Street to Doxford Park/ Farringdon with the 23/4/3/20

AS well the 33(GNE)/12/13(SCNE)

There's also the 61 and the 22/23, which seem to take the exact same route between Dalton Park and Sunderland Interchange.

As well as the 6 and X21 between Durham and West Auckland (the 7 between Durham and Croxdale could arguably be counted as well)

The JTC agenda for next week is online. There's an Enhanced Partnership update and a copy of the fare structure: https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...a-Pack.pdf



The fares proposal is also covered in the paper that went to scrutiny yesterday: https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...OSC-v2.pdf

(17 Mar 2023, 4:52 pm)Adrian wrote The JTC agenda for next week is online. There's an Enhanced Partnership update and a copy of the fare structure: https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...a-Pack.pdf



The fares proposal is also covered in the paper that went to scrutiny yesterday: https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...OSC-v2.pdf

So why have they put the Day Rover/Explorer up so much if they're introducing these? Or is this just bus?

Edit: Just realised it specifies multi-modal, but still, why put up the Rover/Explorer? Driving away passengers before reducing fares seems backwards.

(17 Mar 2023, 5:38 pm)deanmachine wrote So why have they put the Day Rover/Explorer up so much if they're introducing these? Or is this just bus?

Edit: Just realised it specifies multi-modal, but still, why put up the Rover/Explorer? Driving away passengers before reducing fares seems backwards.

Because these new fares are funded (subsidised) through the BSIP, whereas Day Rover/Explorer aren’t, they are commercial fares.

(17 Mar 2023, 5:38 pm)deanmachine wrote So why have they put the Day Rover/Explorer up so much if they're introducing these? Or is this just bus?

Edit: Just realised it specifies multi-modal, but still, why put up the Rover/Explorer? Driving away passengers before reducing fares seems backwards.

I'd imagine it's to make people avoid using them, they'll know that these will be in roughly for when the £2 ends so it's to put people off using it so they can earn more money through the government rebates.

Right or wrong that's a debate, also a £6 reduction sounds better than £4 when doing PR.

(17 Mar 2023, 7:54 pm)Storx wrote I'd imagine it's to make people avoid using them, they'll know that these will be in roughly for when the £2 ends so it's to put people off using it so they can earn more money through the government rebates.

Right or wrong that's a debate, also a £6 reduction sounds better than £4 when doing PR.

Very cynical when Nexus themselves are part of the Network One programme.

(17 Mar 2023, 4:52 pm)Adrian wrote The JTC agenda for next week is online. There's an Enhanced Partnership update and a copy of the fare structure: https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...a-Pack.pdf



The fares proposal is also covered in the paper that went to scrutiny yesterday: https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...OSC-v2.pdf

Absolute joke these fares, £4 for one county, £5 for another then £6 for the other.

There should just be one set multi-modal fare cost across all counties within the region at £5 so everyone is treated equally in my opinion which is a lot more attractive than what has been proposed, they should also scrap Network One as what is being proposed is exactly the same and would also avoid further confusion in what is already very complex ticketing options here in the North East, time to simplify things to make them easier to understand for a customer perspective as that is what will attract them to switch from cars to public transport.

(17 Mar 2023, 10:16 pm)Malarkey wrote Absolute joke these fares, £4 for one county, £5 for another then £6 for the other.

There should just be one set multi-modal fare cost across all counties within the region at £5 so everyone is treated equally in my opinion which is a lot more attractive than what has been proposed, they should also scrap Network One as what is being proposed is exactly the same and would also avoid further confusion in what is already very complex ticketing options here in the North East, time to simplify things to make them easier to understand for a customer perspective as that is what will attract them to switch from cars to public transport.

I can understand Tyne and Wear being more expensive than the other two, but not sure why Northumberland is more expensive than County Durham? Tyne and Wear is multi-modal, so will include at least the Metro, presumably the Ferry and possibly heavy rail between Blaydon and Sunderland.

It's a shame that it looks like they're going to drip-feed ticketing in, rather than having the weekly/monthly/annual tickets available at the same time.

(18 Mar 2023, 3:21 pm)Adrian wrote I can understand Tyne and Wear being more expensive than the other two, but not sure why Northumberland is more expensive than County Durham? Tyne and Wear is multi-modal, so will include at least the Metro, presumably the Ferry and possibly heavy rail between Blaydon and Sunderland.

It's a shame that it looks like they're going to drip-feed ticketing in, rather than having the weekly/monthly/annual tickets available at the same time.

Blyth and Tyne railway maybe? I know it was meant to be part of the ticketing in the plans and is still mentioned from time to time. Easier to have the price higher upfront than increasing it later and adding it in.

Can see the moaning, 'why am I paying a pound extra now for a railway I don't live by - utter joke' etc.

Mind that said I'd rather they done something like (or similar):

£2.00 Single on any bus, metro or ferry
£5.00 daily cap across one method of travel
£6.50 daily cap across multiple methods of travel
£20 weekly cap across one method of travel
£26 weekly cap across multiple methods of travel
£70 monthly cap across one method of travel
£91 monthly cap across multiple methods of travel

Would make it much easier and for most people would be similar fares anyway than what's being proposed. Zones just aren't needed imo.

(18 Mar 2023, 7:16 pm)Storx wrote Blyth and Tyne railway maybe? I know it was meant to be part of the ticketing in the plans and is still mentioned from time to time. Easier to have the price higher upfront than increasing it later and adding it in.

Can see the moaning, 'why am I paying a pound extra now for a railway I don't live by - utter joke' etc.

An extra £1 for everyone in Northumberland for the line between Ashington and Seaton Delaval would be shocking mind. It might be to do with Northumberland being a bigger county, Berwick to Blyth to Haltwhistle is quite a distance, I'd imagine that's the excuse used.

(18 Mar 2023, 8:38 pm)deanmachine wrote An extra £1 for everyone in Northumberland for the line between Ashington and Seaton Delaval would be shocking mind. It might be to do with Northumberland being a bigger county, Berwick to Blyth to Haltwhistle is quite a distance, I'd imagine that's the excuse used.

Aye, true mind. Can't see there being many journeys doing it, only really Morpeth to Berwick that's possible since there's no way of getting across to the West without going through Newcastle. Can't imagine there's many people doing Ashington to Berwick every day etc.

Same could be said about Tyne and Wear though, £6 is steep if you live in Washington and only travel to Sunderland and Newcastle via bus. It's cheaper than the GNE alternative I believe. Yet someone can travel from Berwick to Morpeth for £1 less.

It's why they need to change it from zones to type of travel instead imo.

(17 Mar 2023, 10:16 pm)Malarkey wrote Absolute joke these fares, £4 for one county, £5 for another then £6 for the other.

There should just be one set multi-modal fare cost across all counties within the region at £5 so everyone is treated equally in my opinion which is a lot more attractive than what has been proposed, they should also scrap Network One as what is being proposed is exactly the same and would also avoid further confusion in what is already very complex ticketing options here in the North East, time to simplify things to make them easier to understand for a customer perspective as that is what will attract them to switch from cars to public transport.

Durham, Northumberland and Tyne & Wear are separate Local Authorities for transport purposes - the price in Durham and Northumberland was dictated by those councils, whilst in Tyne & Wear they wanted to include Metro - hence different prices in each area.  

Whether this will change when there is an elected Mayor post 2024 we will have to wait and see.

---

(18 Mar 2023, 3:21 pm)Adrian wrote I can understand Tyne and Wear being more expensive than the other two, but not sure why Northumberland is more expensive than County Durham? Tyne and Wear is multi-modal, so will include at least the Metro, presumably the Ferry and possibly heavy rail between Blaydon and Sunderland.

It's a shame that it looks like they're going to drip-feed ticketing in, rather than having the weekly/monthly/annual tickets available at the same time.

It's not clear if there will be week/month/annual ticket versions of these new tickets.

I think in regards to partnerships the 21/X12/X21 needs looking at with them being tightly timed together between Durham and Newcastle with timings shown below with all services often running together with more often than not the X21 being late due to works on the A1 and then also running together with the 21 Durham/Brandon Boards so I think the timetable for the 21/X12/X21 needs to be streamlined to a Bus operating roughly Every 10-12 Minutes between Durham and Newcastle which would offer a an improvement on the current service.

Current Timings

xx:10 / xx: 40 - 21 Departs Newcastle for Durham/Brandon
xx:13 / xx:43 - X21 Departs Newcastle for Durham
xx:20 - X12 Departs Newcastle to Durham

xx:05 / xx35 - 21 Departs Durham for Newcastle
xx:15 / xx:45 - X21 Departs Durham for Newcastle
xx:20 - X12 departs Durham for Newcastle

Suggested Revised Times

xx:10 / xx:40 - 21 Departs Newcastle for Durham/Brandon (Timings Unchanged)
xx:20 - X12 Departs Newcastle for Durham (Timings Unchanged)
xx:00 / xx:30 - X21 Departs Newcastle for Durham (Revised to operate 13 Minutes Earlier than current timings throughout entire route)

xx:10 / xx:40 - 21 Departs Durham for Newcastle (Revised to operate 5 Minutes Later than current timings throughout entire route)
xx:20 - X12 Departs Durham for Newcastle (Timings Unchanged)
xx:00/ xx:30 - X21 Departs Durham for Newcastle (Revised to operate 15 Minutes Earlier than current timings throughout entire route)

Obviously you'll notice a 20 Minute gap between xx:40 and xx:00 and would suggest increasing the X12 back to operating Every 30 Minutes as numbers from what I have seen in the past few weeks have been strong with buses being almost fully seated, Arriva have been picking up at more stops between Chester-Le-Street and Low Fell than they are meant to if the driver has seen passengers waiting at stops for a 21 from the odd occasions I have gotten the X12 as there seems to be more than enough layover time built into the X12 timetable.

Tried the combined coast road services yesterday for the first time.

When I got there, there were a couple dozen customers waiting between the GNE and Arriva stands. A Go North East bus was already in and boarding, so I opted to wait for the Arriva 308, 5 minutes later.

Only a short journey as I was only going as far as the Corner House. Interestingly, there were 6 of us who got off at stops leading up to where I got off, despite the fact they could have opted for the bus before.

At Haymarket, there is nothing at all advertising this partnership. Nothing mentioned on the timetable, no posters up, nothing. The GNE bus I got back had a small, barely noticeable, A4 notice up. The cove panelling is instead being used to advertise the Little Coaster services that no longer exist. The Arriva bus has no such poster or anything else.

Mobile tickets also don't work on each others ticket machines. The machine honked when I tried to scan my GNE app day rover on the 308. So presumably drivers have to manually check them and therefore understand GNE's products as well as their own.

The partnership is a good thing and a long time coming. I'd love to see the same kind of thing elsewhere, but the application needs to be 100x better than this. It doesn't mean you have to hire in everyone's favourite design agency, but at least do something to promote it along the route.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

(02 Apr 2023, 8:22 pm)Adrian wrote Tried the combined coast road services yesterday for the first time.

When I got there, there were a couple dozen customers waiting between the GNE and Arriva stands. A Go North East bus was already in and boarding, so I opted to wait for the Arriva 308, 5 minutes later.

Only a short journey as I was only going as far as the Corner House. Interestingly, there were 6 of us who got off at stops leading up to where I got off, despite the fact they could have opted for the bus before.

At Haymarket, there is nothing at all advertising this partnership. Nothing mentioned on the timetable, no posters up, nothing. The GNE bus I got back had a small, barely noticeable, A4 notice up. The cove panelling is instead being used to advertise the Little Coaster services that no longer exist. The Arriva bus has no such poster or anything else.

Mobile tickets also don't work on each others ticket machines. The machine honked when I tried to scan my GNE app day rover on the 308. So presumably drivers have to manually check them and therefore understand GNE's products as well as their own.

The partnership is a good thing and a long time coming. I'd love to see the same kind of thing elsewhere, but the application needs to be 100x better than this. It doesn't mean you have to hire in everyone's favourite design agency, but at least do something to promote it along the route.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

So the following needs to happen:

- Partition between stand L & M at Haymarket removed

- Promotional information at Haymarket on both stands and major stops along common sections of route

- Unified branding for vehicles which fits into Arriva's corporate livery and GNE's Cobalt & Coast or corporate livery

- Full support of mobile ticketing and T-O-T-O for both operators

(02 Apr 2023, 5:47 pm)Malarkey wrote I think in regards to partnerships the 21/X12/X21 needs looking at with them being tightly timed together between Durham and Newcastle with timings shown below with all services often running together with more often than not the X21 being late due to works on the A1 and then also running together with the 21 Durham/Brandon Boards so I think the timetable for the 21/X12/X21 needs to be streamlined to a Bus operating roughly Every 10-12 Minutes between Durham and Newcastle which would offer a an improvement on the current service.

Current Timings

xx:10 / xx: 40 - 21 Departs Newcastle for Durham/Brandon
xx:13 / xx:43 - X21 Departs Newcastle for Durham
xx:20 - X12 Departs Newcastle to Durham

xx:05 / xx35 - 21 Departs Durham for Newcastle
xx:15 / xx:45 - X21 Departs Durham for Newcastle
xx:20 - X12 departs Durham for Newcastle

Suggested Revised Times

xx:10 / xx:40 - 21 Departs Newcastle for Durham/Brandon (Timings Unchanged)
xx:20 - X12 Departs Newcastle for Durham (Timings Unchanged)
xx:00 / xx:30 - X21 Departs Newcastle for Durham (Revised to operate 13 Minutes Earlier than current timings throughout entire route)

xx:10 / xx:40 - 21 Departs Durham for Newcastle (Revised to operate 5 Minutes Later than current timings throughout entire route)
xx:20 - X12 Departs Durham for Newcastle (Timings Unchanged)
xx:00/ xx:30 - X21 Departs Durham for Newcastle (Revised to operate 15 Minutes Earlier than current timings throughout entire route)

Obviously you'll notice a 20 Minute gap between xx:40 and xx:00 and would suggest increasing the X12 back to operating Every 30 Minutes as numbers from what I have seen in the past few weeks have been strong with buses being almost fully seated, Arriva have been picking up at more stops between Chester-Le-Street and Low Fell than they are meant to if the driver has seen passengers waiting at stops for a 21 from the odd occasions I have gotten the X12 as there seems to be more than enough layover time built into the X12 timetable.

Disagree with this personally.

The X21/X12 are one bus route, the 21 is another bus route and they should be timed separately. They're not really interchangeable as the 21 is so slow in comparison.

Something like the below would be better and fixes the other messy areas around there.

Durham to Bishop Auckland
X21: Every 20 Minutes, Newcastle to West Auckland
6: Every 20 Minutes, Durham to Cockfield
--- Combined Every 10 Minutes ---

Durham to Brandon
49: Every 30 Minutes
49A: Every 30 Minutes
21: Withdrawn
-- Arriva tickets usable on X12/X21 due to new partnership --

Durham to CLS
X21: Every 20 Minutes
X12: Every 30 Minutes
21: Withdrawn
-- Not Combined But Tickets Accepted On Both --

Newcastle to CLS
21: Every 15 Minutes

Newcastle to Angel
21: Every 7.5 Minutes

GoNorthEast and Arriva tickets are valid on:
X21: Newcastle to West Auckland
21: Newcastle to CLS
50: CLS to Durham
X12: Newcastle to Durham
6: Durham to Cockfield

It's a much better use of resources, have one bus focusing on the urban area and the other's focusing on the extreme areas similar to the 43 and X10/X11 between Newcastle and Cramlington / Blyth. The 21 is a bit pointless nowadays since the X21 stops everywhere; the 21 similar being pointless doing Arnison as it's duplicating the 50 and causes delays on the rest of the route.

How do you stop people not going further on their ticket, than they should?

(03 Apr 2023, 8:08 am)Unber43 wrote How do you stop people not going further on their ticket, than they should?

No different to getting a Network One ticket and going out of Tyne and Wear. Usually ends up with one of two things, the bus driver not giving a toss or usually very verbally abusive. There never seems to be any inbetween like someone accidentality makes a mistake.

(03 Apr 2023, 8:08 am)Unber43 wrote How do you stop people not going further on their ticket, than they should?

Not being able to get home?

I remember being on I think the 27, and someone tried to board the bus one stop into a different zone and the driver refused to let him on until he bought a single ticket to the next stop where he could scan his ticket.

Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk

(02 Apr 2023, 8:22 pm)Adrian wrote Tried the combined coast road services yesterday for the first time.

When I got there, there were a couple dozen customers waiting between the GNE and Arriva stands. A Go North East bus was already in and boarding, so I opted to wait for the Arriva 308, 5 minutes later.

Only a short journey as I was only going as far as the Corner House. Interestingly, there were 6 of us who got off at stops leading up to where I got off, despite the fact they could have opted for the bus before.

At Haymarket, there is nothing at all advertising this partnership. Nothing mentioned on the timetable, no posters up, nothing. The GNE bus I got back had a small, barely noticeable, A4 notice up. The cove panelling is instead being used to advertise the Little Coaster services that no longer exist. The Arriva bus has no such poster or anything else.

Mobile tickets also don't work on each others ticket machines. The machine honked when I tried to scan my GNE app day rover on the 308. So presumably drivers have to manually check them and therefore understand GNE's products as well as their own.

The partnership is a good thing and a long time coming. I'd love to see the same kind of thing elsewhere, but the application needs to be 100x better than this. It doesn't mean you have to hire in everyone's favourite design agency, but at least do something to promote it along the route.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

The Arriva 308 bus I was on did have a poster advertising it. It was A4 surprise surprise

---

"The 21 is a bit pointless nowadays since the X21 stops everywhere;"

Not to people in Birtley and anywhere along Durham Road that isn't close to The Cannon, it isn't.

(03 Apr 2023, 4:24 pm)BusLoverMum wrote "The 21 is a bit pointless nowadays since the X21 stops everywhere;"

Not to people in Birtley and anywhere along Durham Road that isn't close to The Cannon, it isn't.

The X12, stop starts through Birtley and Low Fell there's a stop for most people within walking distance especially in Birtley. The only noticeable gap is around Shipcote Terrace and The Lambton Worm in CLS, could easily stop there if need be, wouldn't really impact anyone 2 extra stops.

(03 Apr 2023, 8:08 am)Unber43 wrote How do you stop people not going further on their ticket, than they should?

Tbh, for me as a driver, that's an issue for the inspectors. They even told us in training that we aren't ticket inspectors, so just check it's valid when they got on and move on to the next customer - there's no point arguing with someone overriding. Last time I did the X24 I had a couple people who'd used a Newcastle Megarider to get on in Newcastle - only to find the machine throws a hissy when they try to use it to come back. That's the view I'd take with other things - if it's valid at the boarding point, it's good enough. If you can't come back on that ticket because you travelled outside it's validity, that's your problem.

(03 Apr 2023, 7:55 pm)F114TML wrote Tbh, for me as a driver, that's an issue for the inspectors. They even told us in training that we aren't ticket inspectors, so just check it's valid when they got on and move on to the next customer - there's no point arguing with someone overriding. Last time I did the X24 I had a couple people who'd used a Newcastle Megarider to get on in Newcastle - only to find the machine throws a hissy when they try to use it to come back. That's the view I'd take with other things - if it's valid at the boarding point, it's good enough. If you can't come back on that ticket because you travelled outside it's validity, that's your problem.

I agree, however I've heard drivers issue returns to the stop before, or a couple of stops before that must be really annoying for passengers which try to get on from that stop