Arriva North East: Latest News & Discussion - February 2014

[Andreos1]

Assuming the frequency was to stay the same with a double decker (not sure where the reduction in frequency comes into play?), buying additional smaller single decked vehicles to meet the same seats per hour is likely to be more expensive in the long run.

With a bigger frequency comes more costs (insurance, various equipment a company uses to track vehicles etc, destination display equipment, drivers' wages etc).

The 10 is probably a good example of that (cant think of ANE examples off the top of my head).

If you think about when it was all single deck operation and ran on the greater frequency between Hexham and Newcastle - compared to the current frequency on the deckers, with a smaller PVR, but similar seats per hour on the route.

I imagine costs equated to wages etc are better currently, but that could be reduced slightly, with it costing more per hour to run a bigger vehicle as well as the greater purchase price.

[Kuyoyo]

Trying buying a Mercedes Citaro for £110k. Daniel is more near the mark by the time VAT is added, that is for sure!

Different markers=different prices. A normal-spec Pulsar is going to cost a lot less than a normal-spec Citaro.

[citaro5284]

The 10 is probably a good example of that (cant think of ANE examples off the top of my head).

If you think about when it was all single deck operation and ran on the greater frequency between Hexham and Newcastle - compared to the current frequency on the deckers, with a smaller PVR, but similar seats per hour on the route.

I imagine costs equated to wages etc are better currently, but that could be reduced slightly, with it costing more per hour to run a bigger vehicle.

Even talking about GNE on the Arriva thread - anyone would think you were obsessed with GNE

[G-CPTN]

I wouldn't imagine that upping the frequency across the day would be economic - though running duplicates during peak times could work.

Anybody know the relative costs of running the MPDs against the deckers

Drivers wages will be constant (big assumption), fuel will vary as will depreciation of the vehicle (capital cost versus lifetime) and servicing/repairs.

[palatine3833]

Dennis Trident 2 based vehicles have always been rubbish:

- 7430 to 7435 couldn't cope on the 602 and Arriva had to bring in a batch of Volvo B10BLE's from Scotland. They then went to Blyth on the 308 and again, couldn't cope. Finally at Jesmond, they could only work Monday to Saturday daytime on the 306 and because they were worn they were when only 5 year old, Palatine 2's and Volvo B10BLE's had to operate the evening and Sunday 306 journeys to give the ALX400's a rest.

- GNE 3801 to 3804 ; 3858 to 3879 had to get the temperature sensors removed when new due to the fact that they constantly overheated. They struggled on several routes. They couldn't cope with thw Coaster extension to Kibblesworth / Wrekenton. They couldn't cope on the Angel when CLS gave Percy Main some Omnicities in exchange for the Lolynes. Ex London castoffs have to be brought up to replace the Lolynes. Lolynes have had trouble on the X25 and can't cope with the route.

- SNEW NK07 HBL went up in smoke in Killingworth as did Arriva's 7510 in Felton.

- Arriva 7501 to 7506 struggled on the 308 and literally crawled up the slip roads on the Coast Road. They were sluggish and they were requiring heavy maintenace at only 3 year old.

[/quote]

Having driven 7432-5 at Durham, it seems like the problem with these 4 has been the lack of TLC. Since 7434 has had its repaint, its a real workhorse, it keeps time better than most Pulsars and just laughs at hills; at times you have to remind yourself that it's a Trident because it certainly doesn't behave like one - 7432/5 have also had work done to their engines and are significantly improved on what they were when they first arrived at Belmont.

[Andreos1]

Even talking about GNE on the Arriva thread - anyone would think you were obsessed with GNE

Did you not see the little disclaimer about examples like?

But yeah, I dream about GNE. Obsessed with them.
I have a little folder in the shed that Mrs Andreos1 doesn't know about, dedicated to all things GNE

[citaro5284]

Different markers=different prices. A normal-spec Pulsar is going to cost a lot less than a normal-spec Citaro.

But Dan quoted a Citaro at that price, not a Pulsar. Even still are you sure a Pulsar is £110k, that is more like a price of a Versa or Streetlite, then add 20% VAT on.

[citaro5284]

I have a little folder in the shed that Mrs Andreos1 doesn't know about, dedicated to all things GNE

I bet you do!

[Andreos1]

I bet you do!

Don't tell anyone.
You can have a peek one day if you want...

Don't get too excited (cos we all know how much you love them) but there are blueprints for destination display kits too!
I even have a prototype of a MobiMASTER ICU 402!

[Wellsey18]

Dennis Trident 2 based vehicles have always been rubbish:

- 7430 to 7435 couldn't cope on the 602 and Arriva had to bring in a batch of Volvo B10BLE's from Scotland. They then went to Blyth on the 308 and again, couldn't cope. Finally at Jesmond, they could only work Monday to Saturday daytime on the 306 and because they were worn they were when only 5 year old, Palatine 2's and Volvo B10BLE's had to operate the evening and Sunday 306 journeys to give the ALX400's a rest.

- GNE 3801 to 3804 ; 3858 to 3879 had to get the temperature sensors removed when new due to the fact that they constantly overheated. They struggled on several routes. They couldn't cope with thw Coaster extension to Kibblesworth / Wrekenton. They couldn't cope on the Angel when CLS gave Percy Main some Omnicities in exchange for the Lolynes. Ex London castoffs have to be brought up to replace the Lolynes. Lolynes have had trouble on the X25 and can't cope with the route.

- SNEW NK07 HBL went up in smoke in Killingworth as did Arriva's 7510 in Felton.

- Arriva 7501 to 7506 struggled on the 308 and literally crawled up the slip roads on the Coast Road. They were sluggish and they were requiring heavy maintenace at only 3 year old.

[/quote]

bloody hell, what is your problem with these buses, if they were so bad why would Arriva and stagecoach continue to invest in them, look at the amount if E400's in the stagecoach fleet, and look at how very little problems they have. 19151 only went up in smoke because something got stuck in the engine (think it was a matress) so you cant blame the bus. Touching on the lolynes i think they are great buses, and theyve certainly lasted throughout the years, with not that many issues, yes fair enough some have had problems but that's mainly age related, i think you just need to end your little war against the E400 and just got on with them, along with your hatred for the 308

[BJ10VUS]

Fair point but thinking of the customer experience I would rather be on the GNE 10 as opposed to being one of 77 crushed into a Scania on the 685.

I agree, because the thing is, you can fit around 50 on an MPD (including standees)... think I'd rather wait for the next bus than play tetris with other commuters.

[ross13]

i would like to see temsas in darlington. ive heard if darlo get 5 new pulsars that they are to displace the 09 reg examples onto the 75/6

[tyresmoke]

i would like to see temsas in darlington. ive heard if darlo get 5 new pulsars that they are to displace the 09 reg examples onto the 75/6

I think it looks likely that they will end up operating on service 23 between Hartlepool and Sunderland. Lets not forget they've been pushing this one with the East Durham student tickets recently too.

The Temsas cascaded out of Redcar look likely to go to Durham but there are possibilities for them ending up at Stockton too, although other depots too could be in with a shout.

Cascaded Volvo B7 Geminis are due from London to replace the remaining high floor double decks in the fleet, these being Olympian 7367 and Spectras 7482/3 all based at Ashington. I believe the figure quoted is 11 and this would allow the 6 T-FGN DAF DB250s based at Durham to be retired too, while also potentially replacing the 2 similar vehicles due to join from the TGM fleet, though this is purely speculation on my part

[G-CPTN]

I agree, because the thing is, you can fit around 50 on an MPD (including standees)... think I'd rather wait for the next bus than play tetris with other commuters.

In the days before the X84/X85, the 685 'broke down' (threw a rear tread) at Corbridge. The 687 (which still ran through to Newcastle) was the next bus along and took on board the 'survivors', but it was so full that whenever anyone wanted to get off several of the standees had to get off to allow the trapped passengers to get off, then the waiting passengers were taken on board until the bus was full (leaving behind a few) so the MPD ran at maximum capacity all the way from Corbridge to Newcastle!

[Davey Bowyer]

bloody hell, what is your problem with these buses, if they were so bad why would Arriva and stagecoach continue to invest in them, look at the amount if E400's in the stagecoach fleet, and look at how very little problems they have. 19151 only went up in smoke because something got stuck in the engine (think it was a matress) so you cant blame the bus. Touching on the lolynes i think they are great buses, and theyve certainly lasted throughout the years, with not that many issues, yes fair enough some have had problems but that's mainly age related, i think you just need to end your little war against the E400 and just got on with them, along with your hatred for the 308

Firstly, I don't hate the 308, I'm stating the facts wifh justification and an unbiased view. Secondly, I'm being completely and utterly honest about the E400's. They're good town and city buses but, when it comes to express and rural routes that depend upon power, the turbochargers are heavily used and over relied upon meaning that the bus looses power and performance. The B9TL doesn't depend too much on turbochargers and has a good 9 litre engine happly chuckling the bus along whether through the Tyne Valley or down the A19. I've jad drivers from Ashington thay turn around and say that despite the coaches being cold and damp, they're far better to drive and far more reliable than the E400's. Have you seen the Flickr account of one of the managers at Arriva who lists the buses that he's driven. He stated on a photo of an E400 that he didn't like the demo and the fitters didn't like the look of the reliability of them. If you look at it this way, when you're on a DB250 powered double deck, it's just pure good old engine power letting the bus chuckle along. But if you get on a Cummins ISBe 6.7l engine double deck, you can hear the turbo kicking in all the time particularly on the E400 and on the DB300's too.

[forster]

4005 is parked in Blyth depot (looks ready for disposal with camera's removed)

[VolvoMarkII]

Interesting that 2 routes that always used to need deckers will be all single deck operated with the new arrivals

Which two are these?

[tyresmoke]

Which two are these?

306 and 1/1b ?

[busman101]

Which two are these?

From the list shown earlier - the Darlo 1 & the 306

[VolvoMarkII]

From the list shown earlier - the Darlo 1 & the 306

Service 1 hasn't required double deckers for two years now, not since the X1 was introduced. In reality, seats per hour is much higher now on that corridor than it was when it was every 30 minutes with double decks.

Not surprising that GNE decided to compete with it, when Arriva did nothing with it at the time.