To be fair I was being a bit cheeky given Redcar are still helping Stockton out with drivers (and Whitby!).

Looking at the tracking 1433 was running about 15-20 late on the X4 on Thu evening though the X3s either side were both Temsas. It probably wasn’t helped by the X4 in front of it (1568) being pulled in Redcar due to being half hour late itself. That one restarted at Dormanstown heading back to Whitby.

This seems to be a regular occurrence due to various buses being in limp mode and the amount of hills on the X4 route.


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You'd think they'd have the sense to either fix those buses in limp mode, or at least allocate them to the 63 or 64 to avoid the hills. Full, busy buses struggling for time then having to crawl up every incline at walking speed only means it's inevitable they end up losing more and more time.

(23 Apr 2023, 6:59 am)tvd wrote You'd think they'd have the sense to either fix those buses in limp mode, or at least allocate them to the 63 or 64 to avoid the hills.  Full, busy buses struggling for time then having to crawl up every incline at walking speed only means it's inevitable they end up losing more and more time.

BIB: I think you mean allocate them to 62s or 63s - 64s interwork with X3/X3A so plenty of hills involved in that cycle.

imo they need to get some buses which are actually appropriate for the route. Streetlite's aren't designed for long distance hill routes - it's no wonder that they're struggling.

The Volvo B8's which they have in Wales and Liverpool would be a good choice imo and actually have some power behind them. It's shocking how neglected Teesside is with Arriva investment wise, it'll be 10 year for a new bus next year.

The fact the 63 a flagship route is limping around with the horrid Temsa's is poor aswell.

The root cause of the whole problem is of course the lack of investment in the fleet. The fact the X4 is struggling along with the poor Streetlites is down to the lack of double decks and Pulsars having to fill the gaps on the Scarboroughs. This in turn puts pressure on the rest of the fleet and then the 63 often loses buses to cover gaps elsewhere.


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(22 Apr 2023, 1:44 pm)tyresmoke wrote To be fair I was being a bit cheeky given Redcar are still helping Stockton out with drivers (and Whitby!).

Looking at the tracking 1433 was running about 15-20 late on the X4 on Thu evening though the X3s either side were both Temsas. It probably wasn’t helped by the X4 in front of it (1568) being pulled in Redcar due to being half hour late itself. That one restarted at Dormanstown heading back to Whitby.

This seems to be a regular occurrence due to various buses being in limp mode and the amount of hills on the X4 route.


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Taking all of that in to account (plus the ridiculous number of lights that's been on the X4 route recently - I've counted temp lights at Marske, Saltburn, Brotton plus two lots at Loftus), surely an effective control would more than pay for itself?
It's a quick win. 

Longer term, allocating an adequate engineering budget could make a huge difference.
Assuming they're wanting to keep punters and attract new ones.

Talking about attracting punters, we were driving through Sandsend during the Easter break and passed a Whitby bound Streetlite who was unable to stop because he was full. 
Left crowds of people (presumably tourists and day trippers) waiting for the next one. No idea if the one in front had ran or not. 
Unsure if the one behind was running.

(23 Apr 2023, 8:39 am)Storx wrote imo they need to get some buses which are actually appropriate for the route. Streetlite's aren't designed for long distance hill routes - it's no wonder that they're struggling.

The Volvo B8's which they have in Wales and Liverpool would be a good choice imo and actually have some power behind them. It's shocking how neglected Teesside is with Arriva investment wise, it'll be 10 year for a new bus next year.

The fact the 63 a flagship route is limping around with the horrid Temsa's is poor aswell.

Streetlites aren't ideal for long distances I agree however when they are working properly, the hill climbing ability of a Streetlite is actually quite good (and that's from a drivers perspective).

I always thought that Temsa were quite good buses...atleast in their looks.

If they sent the X4 via Saltburn Road in Brotton and diverted the 5 via Laburnum Road, they'd be able to use Deckers (that they don't have), but that would surely help with loading during the summer?

Unless I am missing another low bridge somewhere.

It's a busy route, even in winter.

(23 Apr 2023, 8:09 pm)DeltaMan wrote If they sent the X4 via Saltburn Road in Brotton and diverted the 5 via Laburnum Road, they'd be able to use Deckers (that they don't have), but that would surely help with loading during the summer?

Unless I am missing another low bridge somewhere.

It's a busy route, even in winter.

Marske (14ft) also limits what you can use, but some DB300s from Northumbria would fit the bill if you missed most of Brotton out


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(23 Apr 2023, 8:14 pm)tyresmoke wrote Marske (14ft) also limits what you can use, but some DB300s from Northumbria would fit the bill if you missed most of Brotton out


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Shame the low height E400s are not the standard really.

You'd like to think that some B8RLEs could be ordered without too much wait time for Teesside. Clearly Arriva see the benefits of the Volvo chassis/engine, otherwise they wouldn't have ordered them for Wales and the NW, and the X4 (as well as other routes, the X66 maybe?) would massively benefit.

(23 Apr 2023, 8:14 pm)tyresmoke wrote Marske (14ft) also limits what you can use, but some DB300s from Northumbria would fit the bill if you missed most of Brotton out


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A play around with the X3 and 81 could easily sort that. Especially as Longbeck allows for any size decker (with it being a level crossing).

(23 Apr 2023, 9:02 pm)mb134 wrote You'd like to think that some B8RLEs could be ordered without too much wait time for Teesside. Clearly Arriva see the benefits of the Volvo chassis/engine, otherwise they wouldn't have ordered them for Wales and the NW, and the X4 (as well as other routes, the X66 maybe?) would massively benefit.

Agreed,

The 5/5A/X4/X4A would be the routes I'd pick for the upgrade and then move the Streetlite's onto local work at Redcar and/or Stockton since they're banned from them all pretty much nowadays. The 63 is a route screaming for something better imo, the same as the 7/7A/8/9/15/17/17A at Stockton - obviously not enough to do all but they'd do a chunk of them depending on where they'd rather have the rather unreliable Streetlites nowadays.

(23 Apr 2023, 10:43 pm)Storx wrote Agreed,

The 5/5A/X4/X4A would be the routes I'd pick for the upgrade and then move the Streetlite's onto local work at Redcar and/or Stockton since they're banned from them all pretty much nowadays. The 63 is a route screaming for something better imo, the same as the 7/7A/8/9/15/17/17A at Stockton - obviously not enough to do all but they'd do a chunk of them depending on where they'd rather have the rather unreliable Streetlites nowadays.

One issue with Redcar is them being lumbered with the Temsa's and Arriva seem to want to them all together at the same depot. One thing I do wonder is, which will go first, the oldest Pulsar's or the Temsa's? I don't think it's beyond the rhelms of possibly the Temsa's could potentially go first with being non standard across the group vs the backbone of the group, we've recently just disposed of the OmniLink's which were 60 plates, although there's more Temsa's in the fleet than the 3 OmniLink's.

(24 Apr 2023, 5:51 am)Jimmi wrote One issue with Redcar is them being lumbered with the Temsa's and Arriva seem to want to them all together at the same depot. One thing I do wonder is, which will go first, the oldest Pulsar's or the Temsa's? I don't think it's beyond the rhelms of possibly the Temsa's could potentially go first with being non standard across the group vs the backbone of the group, we've recently just disposed of the OmniLink's which were 60 plates, although there's more Temsa's in the fleet than the 3 OmniLink's.

Aye I was thinking of that when I posted that. Not sure how many there are but say if you upgraded the 63/X4/X4A wouldn't that leave enough Temsa's to do everything else at Redcar and move the Pulsar's out to elsewhere.

The X3/X3A don't really seem the most difficult of all bus routes and the really knackered ones could be just dumped on the 62/81 and if there's any spare just withdraw them like you said. They're arguably next in line especially the 59 plates even if they're christmas trees as I can't imagine there's a surplus of parts of them going around how unique they are. Has anyone else actually got one in the UK?

(24 Apr 2023, 7:29 am)Storx wrote Aye I was thinking of that when I posted that. Not sure how many there are but say if you upgraded the 63/X4/X4A wouldn't that leave enough Temsa's to do everything else at Redcar and move the Pulsar's out to elsewhere.

The X3/X3A don't really seem the most difficult of all bus routes and the really knackered ones could be just dumped on the 62/81 and if there's any spare just withdraw them like you said. They're arguably next in line especially the 59 plates even if they're christmas trees as I can't imagine there's a surplus of parts of them going around how unique they are. Has anyone else actually got one in the UK?

South of Saltburn are where the hills are. 
Crawling up Apple Orchard Bank at 5mph behind a Temsa is painful.
There's a few hills around Skelton/Skelton Green and the roads around Boosbeck aren't really flat either.

(24 Apr 2023, 11:44 am)Andreos1 wrote South of Saltburn are where the hills are. 
Crawling up Apple Orchard Bank at 5mph behind a Temsa is painful.
There's a few hills around Skelton/Skelton Green and the roads around Boosbeck aren't really flat either.

Aye know the one now forgot about that probably because it's not that steep but I know what it's like with buses on limp mode with a hill. 

The X7 is bad enough on Matthew Bank. 

---

Btw speaking of buses and this is probably a bit off topic but it's not really worthy of a thread but does anyone know where the Arriva Crewe Enviro 400's are off to. They'd be a good stop gap to sort out the mess on the X93/X94 and are the really high spec Sapphire buses which used to run in Wales with the high back seats etc. 

(Arriva North West in Cheshire shut down completely this weekend for those not aware)

(24 Apr 2023, 1:21 pm)Storx wrote Btw speaking of buses and this is probably a bit off topic but it's not really worthy of a thread but does anyone know where the Arriva Crewe Enviro 400's are off to. They'd be a good stop gap to sort out the mess on the X93/X94 and are the really high spec Sapphire buses which used to run in Wales with the high back seats etc. 

(Arriva North West in Cheshire shut down completely this weekend for those not aware)

They’ve gone to Rhyl depot - indeed I think all displaced vehicles from those depot closures have either moved onto other North West and Wales depot or been withdrawn.
Also, those Sapphire refurbished E400s wouldn’t be that much of a help on the X93/X94 - given they have 2+1 seating on the upper deck, an idea that thankfully was only adopted for the Wrexham-Chester service 1, imagine if they’d rolled that out on the X21/X22…..

(24 Apr 2023, 2:05 pm)Kuyoyo wrote They’ve gone to Rhyl depot - indeed I think all displaced vehicles from those depot closures have either moved onto other North West and Wales depot or been withdrawn.
Also, those Sapphire refurbished E400s wouldn’t be that much of a help on the X93/X94 - given they have 2+1 seating on the upper deck, an idea that thankfully was only adopted for the Wrexham-Chester service 1, imagine if they’d rolled that out on the X21/X22…..

Thanks for that, had a feeling they'd end up there somewhere or even withdrawn since they're getting on a bit nowadays - must be some of the oldest deckers still in service ignoring the few B7's and 57 plate Enviro's up here and the whole Arriva Kent fleet.

Forgot about the 2+1 seating actually, good idea on paper, not so much when there's not enough seats.

(24 Apr 2023, 7:29 am)Storx wrote Aye I was thinking of that when I posted that. Not sure how many there are but say if you upgraded the 63/X4/X4A wouldn't that leave enough Temsa's to do everything else at Redcar and move the Pulsar's out to elsewhere.

The X3/X3A don't really seem the most difficult of all bus routes and the really knackered ones could be just dumped on the 62/81 and if there's any spare just withdraw them like you said. They're arguably next in line especially the 59 plates even if they're christmas trees as I can't imagine there's a surplus of parts of them going around how unique they are. Has anyone else actually got one in the UK?

27 supplied to the UK, 26 for Arriva (including the dealer ones used first in Malta before ending up with North East) with the 27th used initially by First West Yorkshire

(24 Apr 2023, 8:26 pm)stagecoachfan wrote 27 supplied to the UK, 26 for Arriva (including the dealer ones used first in Malta before ending up with North East) with the 27th used initially by First West Yorkshire

Thanks for that thought that was the case. Wasn't sure if some independent had picked up a random one here or there.

(24 Apr 2023, 8:41 pm)Storx wrote Thanks for that thought that was the case. Wasn't sure if some independent had picked up a random one here or there.

Yes, 4721 YJ10 DTF was new to First West Yorkshire as their fleetnumber 63000. I may be talking absolute tosh here but I seem to remember it working in Yorkshire carrying Black Prince of Morley livery. Black Prince was an independent operator which ceased trading around 2005.

I use the X4 daily. It's not the most reliable and gets worse through the day. 6 minutes turnaround at Whitby and 5 minutes at Boro. No catch-up time. If the 8-00am is late, so will the one at 12-00noon. I try to avoid the service if a Temsa is on - i could walk up Lythe Bank quicker - almost. Love to see deckers but not an expert on bridge heights - they're at Marske, Saltburn, Brotton [whichever way you go] and Carlin How. And the roadworks in [currently] 4 locations makes thinks even worse.

Double deckers on the X4 is never going to happen, there's too many difficulties. Re-route it through Brotton and the locals will complain they can't get to Saltburn/Redcar. The 5 hasn't the time to be re-routed via Laburnum Road either.
As soon as there's any diversion in place you may have height problems. You limit what other routes the buses can be used on.
Deckers would keep worse time than what's used now, and of course there's the cost because they'd need to invest in a number of double deckers.

The best option is decent spec new buses, but we all know Arriva have this annoying habit of not regularly upgrading their fleet, and instead prefer to invest big style only when they absolutely have to, and until then flog their vehicles to death for years without so much as one new bus to be seen.

(24 Apr 2023, 11:18 pm)N391OTY wrote Yes, 4721 YJ10 DTF was new to First West Yorkshire as their fleetnumber 63000. I may be talking absolute tosh here but I seem to remember it working in Yorkshire carrying Black Prince of Morley livery. Black Prince was an independent operator which ceased trading around 2005.

Never carried Black Prince livery.

Was originally painted in First Barbie livery - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...1422474707

After First had finished with it, it was painted white and used a demo / loan vehicle, here it is on loan to Geldards. - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...0952967428

Noticed 1439 expired yesterday PM. According to BusTimes data, it was there a good 2 or 3 hours before I passed it. 

Back out today.

Replying to this here to avoid going off topic in the Service change thread

(25 May 2023, 6:36 pm)ahorsmanthebus wrote Someone mentioned to me earlier about 2 of Ashingtons SK72 E400MMCs transferring to Redcar for the summer season if that’s correct or not.

Yes, that is correct - 7575/6 are being collected from Ashington this evening for use at Redcar over the summer due to the ongoing decker shortage.

(25 May 2023, 6:45 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Replying to this here to avoid going off topic in the Service change thread


Yes, that is correct - 7575/6 are being collected from Ashington this evening for use at Redcar over the summer due to the ongoing decker shortage.

2 Pulsars due to move north in replacement. Imagine it'll likely see more saloons on the 35 over the summer, and more of the standard E400s on express work.

Anyone know where 4723 is it's not in the yard at redcar and not out