Depot rumblings I'd heard, so take with a pinch of salt, indicated that it was increasingly unlikely that either Blyth or Ashington could be expanded as originally intended. Costs of land, availability of land, costs of building etc all mentioned.

That, coupled with seemingly now permanent changes in work pattern, probably made operating the entire Jesmond operation from SE Northumberland unviable in the end. I imagine they've had to choose between the busy and you'd assume profitable 43/44/45, and the likely loss making 51-55. Other changes to funding etc probably helped that decision.

Well thats fantastic, how am i supposed to get to my mothers now, i can currently get the 53 direct, but if i miss it i can get one from the coast road to town then the 55

(09 May 2023, 5:46 pm)Storx wrote Wonder if there might be some changes to some existing services to cover these routes.

X8 serving Killingworth
X7/X8 serving Matthew Bank
57A rerouted via Fern Drive

To pick three which would least cover some of it with little change.

I think they should reintroduced the old X4/X5 where they went via Four Lane Ends & Freeman Hospital. Stagecoach could easily take the 54 full time

(09 May 2023, 7:02 pm)Busu284 wrote I think they should reintroduced the old X4/X5 where they went via Four Lane Ends & Freeman Hospital. Stagecoach could easily take the 54 full time

Could they? Have they got the drivers & vehicles to take it on 6 days a week?


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(09 May 2023, 6:54 pm)V514DFT wrote Well thats fantastic, how am i supposed to get to my mothers now, i can currently get the 53 direct, but if i miss it i can get one from the coast road to town then the 55

Would imagine most, if not all, routes will be contracted out by Nexus if not taken on commercially by other operators. 

I'd say the 52/53 would be the most likely to be commercially ran by another company, potentially Stagecoach given it already has operations in and around Killingworth so operationally it may be more efficient. The 51/4/5 would almost certainly be tendered, but I could absolutely see those 3 being split up and slapped onto other routes.

(09 May 2023, 7:04 pm)tyresmoke wrote Could they? Have they got the drivers & vehicles to take it on 6 days a week?


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More to the point, why would Arriva commercially introduce bus services to replace ones which are obviously not as profitable as they would like?

(09 May 2023, 7:02 pm)Busu284 wrote I think they should reintroduced the old X4/X5 where they went via Four Lane Ends & Freeman Hospital. Stagecoach could easily take the 54 full time

Disagree with that, it killed the X4/X5 the last time round when they done that and was extremely unpopular. They're slow enough as they are already imo. Matthew Bank will be covered by them instead imo.

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(09 May 2023, 7:06 pm)mb134 wrote Would imagine most, if not all, routes will be contracted out by Nexus if not taken on commercially by other operators. 

I'd say the 52/53 would be the most likely to be commercially ran by another company, potentially Stagecoach given it already has operations in and around Killingworth so operationally it may be more efficient. The 51/4/5 would almost certainly be tendered, but I could absolutely see those 3 being split up and slapped onto other routes.

Can't see the 52 existing personally, can see that being bolted onto the end of the 18 so it would be a Cramlington to Walker service instead of Benton, would only need 2 buses to do it. It's exactly 30 minutes from Four Lane Ends to Cramlington.

If GNE were to win 51-55 that would be a massive win for them!

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I always thought the 51-55 were very popular and profitable, atleast the 52/53/54

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I always thought the 51-55 were very popular and profitable, atleast the 52/53/54

In reality, the 335 could be amended to replace the 55 - although not sure if that will be possible until March as I assume that's when the current ones are valid until.

Scrap the FLE-Killingworth section (not needed as it duplicates the 62), amend route in Forest Hall and extend to Newcastle. It would only take 1 extra bus if they are wanting to run half hourly Forest Hall-Newcastle.

(09 May 2023, 7:55 pm)Unber43 wrote

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I always thought the 51-55 were very popular and profitable, atleast the 52/53/54

There's a reason Arriva gave up the evening and Sunday 54s early doors...

(09 May 2023, 8:22 pm)Thomas12 wrote In reality, the 335 could be amended to replace the 55 - although not sure if that will be possible until March as I assume that's when the current ones are valid until.

Scrap the FLE-Killingworth section (not needed as it duplicates the 62), amend route in Forest Hall and extend to Newcastle. It would only take 1 extra bus if they are wanting to run half hourly Forest Hall-Newcastle.

The 335, is to link Quorum and Forest Hall - not sure how many people use it mind.

There's no need for a Meadway to Newcastle bus route though, the 63 serves one end and the Metro serves the other. It's a gonna imo, Nexus already refused to subsidise the evening runs for the same reason.

See here - https://democracy.northtyneside.gov.uk/d...rvices.pdf

Pensioners and people with limited mobility who live in the middle of Meadway might disagree with you there. I've walked it several times, nice and easy for me, but for many people it would be too far and leave them stuck at home or requiring a car or taxi.

(09 May 2023, 9:12 pm)Shrek wrote Pensioners and people with limited mobility who live in the middle of Meadway might disagree with you there. I've walked it several times, nice and easy for me, but for many people it would be too far and leave them stuck at home or requiring a car or taxi.

Imagine they'll redirect the 335 or something instead though personally. Not ideal if they want to go to Newcastle of course but as seen with what was planned with the W2 they don't care about that.

I probably shouldn't say this but in the last tenders there was a tender for a K1: Backworth to Killingworth, K2: Meadway to Killingworth and K3: West Moor to Killingworth (numbers might be the wrong way round), all hourly using 1 bus, which would tick the boxes for the estates which they didn't go ahead with and wasn't in any consultations either. It didn't make sense at the time but kind of does now.

Hopefully it's not the route they go but it would solve the 54 and 55 if they're going for the cheapest option. The rest of it has alternative services especially now the 19 goes up to part of Backworth aswell. Not ideal but they're skint.

(09 May 2023, 5:48 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Still, it will give L469 LVK a chance to redesign the network for the umpteenth time with all services going through Hadrian Park and Billy Mill. 

Oh, and a super-depot at Percy Main.

Oh, oh, oh. And the 22 to be split into two separate services at Willington Square roundabout.

But if the 51 wasn't re-tendered, it would be the most sensible option putting the 307 through Wiltshire Drive and in situ the 22 going to Hadrian Park every 20 minutes.

Are Nexus going to pay for a like for like replacement of the Newcastle to Hadrian Lodge section of the 51 when it could be easily picked up by another service (in agreement with GNE & Stagecoach making the needed changes).

Yes Hadrian Park = slower service but more links deeper into Newcastle (Quayside, Manors, Monument, Central Station)

(09 May 2023, 10:12 pm)L469 YVK wrote But if the 51 wasn't re-tendered, it would be the most sensible option putting the 307 through Wiltshire Drive and in situ the 22 going to Hadrian Park every 20 minutes.

Are Nexus going to pay for a like for like replacement of the Newcastle to Hadrian Lodge section of the 51 when it could be easily picked up by another service (in agreement with GNE & Stagecoach making the needed changes).

Yes Hadrian Park = slower service but more links deeper into Newcastle (Quayside, Manors, Monument, Central Station)

Cheers. Easiest tenner I've ever made

(10 May 2023, 4:52 am)MurdnunoC wrote Cheers. Easiest tenner I've ever made

Absolutely more than welcome .

But why are Nexus going to pay (unless it works out it's worth keeping the 51 re-tendered) for a tendered service to cover Wiltshire Drive when it can easily be picked up by re-routing an existing commercial service?

(10 May 2023, 5:30 am)L469 YVK wrote Absolutely more than welcome .

But why are Nexus going to pay (unless it works out it's worth keeping the 51 re-tendered) for a tendered service to cover Wiltshire Drive when it can easily be picked up by re-routing an existing commercial service?

The 51 might be needed at the other end. Between the 51 and 54 for the Shiremoor to Whitley Bay section the 51 offers more. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see the 51 run it's full route with the 54 curtailed at Boundary Mill. 

If they're interworked and both hourly you could probably get away with a PVR 4. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see the 335/53 merged at the Eastern end either they run pretty much identical routes but a street apart.

(10 May 2023, 4:52 am)MurdnunoC wrote Cheers. Easiest tenner I've ever made

More success with this than the NEB Bingo?

(10 May 2023, 9:10 am)Andreos1 wrote More success with this than the NEB Bingo?

Not quite. You got me a line earlier on, not enough for the full house though. You need to do better, so I can claim the jackpot.

(09 May 2023, 4:14 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Rumours are abound that the withdrawal of services 51-55 have been announced to Arriva staff today.

Just seen this on another forum:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/arr...st-6210815

I know there's been a lot of talk about these but wonder if someone might actually attempt to take them on commercially.

Reading through that it seems that they might actually be money in them, the problem is there's literally nowhere for the vehicles and expanding a depot at Ashington with the cost increases wouldn't be sustainable.

GoNorthEast at Percy Main in particular has been butchering routes for years as has space but there's also an argument for Stagecoach aswell. Taking the 52, extension to 38?, and 53 over in particular would give them pretty much a near monopoly in Killingworth. They obviously seem keen in both areas with the contracts on the 317 and 54 and they obviously have space for buses as Arriva have been there for months - plenty driver's aswell no doubt who don't want to move to Blyth and do Arriva even need them all...? - TUPE possible?

So what Services does arriva run from Walkergate? Blyth? and Ashington?

(10 May 2023, 8:30 pm)nova347 wrote So what Services does arriva run from Walkergate? Blyth? and Ashington?

Walkergate:
51/52/53/54
55

Blyth:
306/308
43/44/45/47
X7/X8/X9/X10/X11

Ashington:
1/2
35
X14/X15/X18/X20
X21/X22
57/57A

There's a few stragglers with some odds boards at Walkergate on the 40's and 306/308 and a few 51-54 boards at Blyth but that's the main gist of it.

The 51-55 were going to Ashington but seems something's gone wrong with expanding the depot up there so they're left on a limb without a depot, no space at Blyth and they're never going to be viable for a depot by itself.

(10 May 2023, 8:13 pm)Storx wrote I know there's been a lot of talk about these but wonder if someone might actually attempt to take them on commercially.

Reading through that it seems that they might actually be money in them, the problem is there's literally nowhere for the vehicles and expanding a depot at Ashington with the cost increases wouldn't be sustainable.

GoNorthEast at Percy Main in particular has been butchering routes for years as has space but there's also an argument for Stagecoach aswell. Taking the 52, extension to 38?, and 53 over in particular would give them pretty much a near monopoly in Killingworth. They obviously seem keen in both areas with the contracts on the 317 and 54 and they obviously have space for buses as Arriva have been there for months - plenty driver's aswell no doubt who don't want to move to Blyth and do Arriva even need them all...? - TUPE possible?

From what I understand there is a huge surplus of drivers at Percy Main as well - could be an interesting expansion opportunity.

(10 May 2023, 10:41 pm)Thomas12 wrote From what I understand there is a huge surplus of drivers at Percy Main as well - could be an interesting expansion opportunity.

And Euro 6 QuayCity Versas if wanting to bid for the 52 & 53.

(10 May 2023, 10:41 pm)Thomas12 wrote From what I understand there is a huge surplus of drivers at Percy Main as well - could be an interesting expansion opportunity.

Yeah totally agreed. The 51 and 53 would arguably be the best bet for them as it would give them a monopoly of some areas and compliment others.

Whenever I've seen buses through Shiremoor there's always people waiting to get on and they're not dead and they'd pretty much take it over and Killingworth to Cramlington isn't exactly a no go corridor (it used to be there's with the 42 anyway).

Similar with the 51 would top up their 41A on Wiltshire Drive and they'd have a near Monopoly of Cobalt / Shiremoor aswell - the 54 is a basketcase so can't see that making much impact. I believe the 51 is only one bus aswell since the rest of it subsidised so no real risk.

Not sure they'd want to take the 52 though it's a bit operationally out on a limb.

If GNE were to win them, then numbering wise would they stay the same or would they have to be renumbered, the only number they dont have now out of that group of numbers is 55, now i know the difference, but there will be folk out their that'll somehow get confused with the services, eg they want to Whitley Bay, but end up in Bensham

(11 May 2023, 11:42 am)V514DFT wrote If GNE were to win them, then numbering wise would they stay the same or would they have to be renumbered, the only number they dont have now out of that group of numbers is 55, now i know the difference, but there will be folk out their that'll somehow get confused with the services, eg they want to Whitley Bay, but end up in Bensham

Doubt it they serve total different bus stations and areas. It'll be upto Nexus what the numbers are (unless they take them on commercially). 

There's been duplicate numbers before infact there is now with the two 51's. 

The 11 only changed, I assume, as there was two 11's serving North Shields and around Royal Quays which was confusing especially the fact Stagecoach run both now.

The 51 service would ideally be split and added to the existing networks

342 service from Wallsend to go via Wiltshire Drive to create the connecting link to Benton Asda - instead of turning at Benton Asda roundabout create a loop around asda clockwise and anti clockwise around Holystone (whitley Road) industrial estate old houses before looping into Holystone new build estate and back along past Asda

For the Wiltshire Road link to Newcastle City Centre add it to the 307 route and revert 309 to omitt mullen Road and create a fast link to Battlehill (previous routes)

Additing the Wiltshire to Benton Asda on the 342 route provides a day eve and sun service as oppose to adding it to a 335 service

Alternatively create a ticketing ticket where it connects for free to a connecting bus and buses wait for each other similar to a transfare ticket

(11 May 2023, 6:12 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote For the Wiltshire Road link to Newcastle City Centre add it to the 307  route and revert 309  to omitt mullen Road and create a fast link to Battlehill (previous routes)

Unless there was a PVR or running time increase, Hadrian Park would have to be dropped from the 307.

And for that to happen, GNE would have to agree to run the 307 via Wiltshire Drive....and Stagecoach agree to split the 22 at Willington Square with a 20 minute Cobalt & Silverlink service and a 20 minute Hadrian Park service.

Saying that.....GNE would gain efficiency savings with the 307 not serving Hadrian Park and instead via Wiltshire Drive. The evening running times would erradicate the need for a long layover or dead runs to / from Percy Main to North Shields too....see below

ex Newcastle: 20:00
arr North Shields: 20:39 (3 mins faster)
dep North Shields: 20:41
arr Newcastle: 21:25 (3 mins faster)

As for the 309, that's perfectly fine how it is and if anything, having both the 307 & 309 via High Farm gives some stability and loadings look good too. Not forgetting the timings leveling out to allow coordination with the 308 between NT Hosp and Blyth.