(15 May 2023, 7:36 am)Shrek wrote If I remember correctly, the terms of the levelling up funding for the new electric buses for the 43/44/45 will require those buses to be running those routes. So they'll probably have to keep them together for that purpose.

In fairness the hybrids were meant to be kept on the 308 and currently the 306/308 is meant to be fully Decker operated. I wouldn't be surprised to see them start to wander onto other routes like usual after a few weeks especially when things get reallocated for time keeping.

(12 May 2023, 2:39 pm)V514DFT wrote Still mention it all the time

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I'd renumber it 64 aswell, that way it matches up in more ways than 1, my concern about that idea is the 62, as 1 extends to Throckley every 30 mins, so would you use that one to extend to Cramlington so it would be a Throckley- Cramlington service every 30 minutes?, 62/63 arent great at the best of times in regards to being on time, its been said a few times on here that the 62/63 need another service to take some of the pressure off

That's why I believe the 71/72/87/X63 all still exist in their form at the frequencies they do. 

15 mins combined Freq on a corridor with a 7.5 min Freq I'm surprised they still exist except for the Westerhope connection which they could replace them with the X63 except serving central station (instead of serving Blackett St) and extend that up to Cramlington. It is more realistic than adapting the already struggling 62/63 debacle which is only getting worse with cuts to nearby services.

(15 May 2023, 8:07 am)Storx wrote In fairness the hybrids were meant to be kept on the 308 and currently the 306/308 is meant to be fully Decker operated. I wouldn't be surprised to see them start to wander onto other routes like usual after a few weeks especially when things get reallocated for time keeping.

Of course that is going to happen , will be interesting to see how they would handle a X10/11 board.

(15 May 2023, 8:07 am)Storx wrote In fairness the hybrids were meant to be kept on the 308 and currently the 306/308 is meant to be fully Decker operated. I wouldn't be surprised to see them start to wander onto other routes like usual after a few weeks especially when things get reallocated for time keeping.

Can't even keep deckers on the busiest 308/306 duties, the 14.40 off town that takes Monkseaton & Billy mill schools is 1586 meanwhile 7526 is on a dead 50s duty hopefully when the 50s go so will all the blyth/Walkergate lites & pulsars and run them as fully decker operated

See the problem u have is there isn't enough deckers at Walkergate/Blyth to cover the 43/44/45/X7/8/9/10/11 alongside shoving decekrs on the 306/308 as well. Reason we are seeing the occasion of the E400 from Ashington randomly appearing and 7524/25/26/56 appearing at Blyth & Walkergate

(15 May 2023, 2:52 pm)Busu284 wrote See the problem u have is there isn't enough deckers at Walkergate/Blyth to cover the 43/44/45/X7/8/9/10/11 alongside shoving decekrs on the 306/308 as well. Reason we are seeing the occasion of the E400 from Ashington randomly appearing and 7524/25/26/56 appearing at Blyth & Walkergate

This isn't correct. 

There are enough deckers on paper to cover what they should be covering. The X7/8/9 you mention have 5 Pulsar boards, with the 43 also having one booked Pulsar. 

7524-6 were transferred to replace 7515-7 for school boards which require E6 deckers. In reality they join a pool of E6 compliant deckers there, there was no net change in the amount of deckers at Walkergate after their transfer. 

I notice that the board 1586 was put onto today for it's one 308 run has only been a single deck for one other day in the past fortnight. I'd imagine once all work moves to Blyth and vehicle allocation becomes easier then we may see an improvement in 306/308 decker allocation, at the moment I think the runout from Walkergate is somewhat restricted - and don't forget Blyth depot isn't fully complete, so they're limited in engineering capacity I believe.

Some service changes are planned in Durham from July 9th

Info circulated via some local Facebook groups and pages.

(16 May 2023, 8:25 pm)Jimmi wrote Some service changes are planned in Durham from July 9th

Info circulated via some local Facebook groups and pages.

I gather this is just one sheet of many but the only one to go public so far


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(16 May 2023, 8:25 pm)Jimmi wrote Some service changes are planned in Durham from July 9th

Info circulated via some local Facebook groups and pages.

Wonder if the X46 is going up to every 30 minutes on a Sunday to replace the 49A. Can't see what other improvements they can realistically do.

Anything for the 6/22/23/X12?

(16 May 2023, 8:25 pm)Jimmi wrote Some service changes are planned in Durham from July 9th

Info circulated via some local Facebook groups and pages.

The cuts focusing on evening/Sunday screams of them wanting extra cash from the council. If the services mentioned were doing that badly, you'd also arguably be expecting to see them reduced from the rather healthy 20 minute M-F frequency they're currently on. 

I'd be interested also to see if there are any improvements planned for ADC around the Darlington/Stockton/Middlesbrough areas, the past few times I've been down there the services have been rather busy, particularly the ones which have been reduced post-Covid like the X66. The southern section of the X12 also seems to be consistently busy too.

Obviously these changes hit bang on the time the cash stops flowing in from the government, so I expect we'll see a lot more of these changes from all operators in the coming weeks.

(16 May 2023, 10:20 pm)mb134 wrote The cuts focusing on evening/Sunday screams of them wanting extra cash from the council. If the services mentioned were doing that badly, you'd also arguably be expecting to see them reduced from the rather healthy 20 minute M-F frequency they're currently on. 

I'd be interested also to see if there are any improvements planned for ADC around the Darlington/Stockton/Middlesbrough areas, the past few times I've been down there the services have been rather busy, particularly the ones which have been reduced post-Covid like the X66. The southern section of the X12 also seems to be consistently busy too.

Obviously these changes hit bang on the time the cash stops flowing in from the government, so I expect we'll see a lot more of these changes from all operators in the coming weeks.

Busy buses are profitable buses, why increase? 

Evening buses, certainly Sunday to Thursday evenings, carry very few passengers in most areas.

(17 May 2023, 6:12 am)busmanT wrote Busy buses are profitable buses, why increase? 

Evening buses, certainly Sunday to Thursday evenings, carry very few passengers in most areas.

Quite a few of the ones I've seen and been on, in the case of the X66, have been very full - one board has already been increased to decker operation. Given it was a higher combined frequency before, and it looks like it has recovered, I think it's more than reasonable to think it might be improved further, either by a slight frequency bump or increase in vehicle size across the board. 

I'm well aware evening and Sunday buses are very quiet, it doesn't change that this screams of Arriva wanting the council to pay them to run them to increase overall profitability.

From those who know - DCC haven't been as open as they should have been on the reasons why these changes are planned.

Apparently, DCC are pulling hundreds of thousands from the ENCTS agreement for 23-24, so Arriva are balancing the books.

From what I understand, DCC knew there extent of these changes back in March and still progressed. However, Arriva will be painted in the worst light possible as is normally the case.

(16 May 2023, 9:27 pm)Storx wrote Wonder if the X46 is going up to every 30 minutes on a Sunday to replace the 49A. Can't see what other improvements they can realistically do.

Correct, X46 going half hourly on Sundays.

X75 Sunday journeys proposed to be withdrawn.

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Meanwhile, Arriva's DalesBus offering will run from June 4th to October 22nd this year, broadly similar to the last few years, but with the Hawes to Kirkby Lonsdale stretch renumbered to 832, the deviation to Keld on the morning 831 journey has been removed: https://www.dalesbus.org/831.html

Some more changes seem to have come to light:

7 (Darlington) no longer extends to Framwellgate Moor. Sunday frequency increased to half hourly.
8/8A (Darlington) no longer operates on Sunday, and some journeys operate only in school holidays on the 8A.
56 (Durham) Durham-Coxhoe only on Sunday and late evenings. At other times it is reduced to hourly, and extended to Tindale Crescent.
X21 (Darlington) withdrawn on Sundays.

With this talk of the 51/2/3/4/5 going. This could be an opportunity for independent companies to join in and jump at the chance for service work. Jh could take the 51 or 55 as it only warrant 2 buses

(17 May 2023, 8:54 pm)Thomas12 wrote 56 (Durham) Durham-Coxhoe only on Sunday and late evenings. At other times it is reduced to hourly, and extended to Tindale Crescent.

Seems strange to extend it to Tindale, presumably it'll follow the the X1 route rather than the 6?

(18 May 2023, 12:47 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Seems strange to extend it to Tindale, presumably it'll follow the the X1 route rather than the 6?

The extension will simply be to avoid having excessive layover in either Bishop Auckland or Durham or both - hence why on Saturdays it's half hourly between Bishop and Coundon, simply to avoid the vehicle sitting for half an hour in either Bishop or Durham.

(18 May 2023, 12:38 pm)Busu284 wrote With this talk of the 51/2/3/4/5 going. This could be an opportunity for independent companies to join in and jump at the chance for service work. Jh could take the 51 or 55 as it only warrant 2 buses

If the services are being tendered, then as has been mentioned many times before, if they are the lowest bidders then they’ll win the contract. They don’t pick.

Can’t see JH winning them, as the 51 and 55 both have evening services. JH have seemed reluctant in the past to operate evening services.

In reality, I’d be shocked if at least some of the services aren’t commercially viable. Yes Arriva are withdrawing them, but it’s mainly due to the depot issues. In this case, Go North East or Stagecoach are more likely.

(18 May 2023, 1:50 pm)Thomas12 wrote If the services are being tendered, then as has been mentioned many times before, if they are the lowest bidders then they’ll win the contract. They don’t pick.

Can’t see JH winning them, as the 51 and 55 both have evening services. JH have seemed reluctant in the past to operate evening services.

In reality, I’d be shocked if at least some of the services aren’t commercially viable. Yes Arriva are withdrawing them, but it’s mainly due to the depot issues. In this case, Go North East or Stagecoach are more likely.

I definitely see SC getting the 54

(17 May 2023, 8:54 pm)Thomas12 wrote Some more changes seem to have come to light:

7 (Darlington) no longer extends to Framwellgate Moor. Sunday frequency increased to half hourly.
8/8A (Darlington) no longer operates on Sunday, and some journeys operate only in school holidays on the 8A.
56 (Durham) Durham-Coxhoe only on Sunday and late evenings. At other times it is reduced to hourly, and extended to Tindale Crescent.
X21 (Darlington) withdrawn on Sundays.

The information I’ve seen suggests the X21 is withdrawn entirely not just on Sundays…


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(18 May 2023, 5:48 pm)tyresmoke wrote The information I’ve seen suggests the X21 is withdrawn entirely not just on Sundays…


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Is there any links? to any of the proposed Arriva bus changes for July, or is it just scaremongering to get the local authorities to fork out more tax payers money to fund the gap where private companies have failed


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(18 May 2023, 5:48 pm)tyresmoke wrote The information I’ve seen suggests the X21 is withdrawn entirely not just on Sundays…

Christ sounds like some of these areas such as the pit villages are gonna be hit hard, especially if DCC don't/won't step in, assuming the X22 will continue? Arriva are already in the bad books around the Trimdon's following the changes following the withdrawal of the 57/57A to the current arrangement which is not attractive to anyone and is subject to much scrutiny and political debate

(18 May 2023, 5:54 pm)cbma06 wrote Is there any links? to any of the proposed Arriva bus changes for July, or is it just scaremongering to get the local authorities to fork out more tax payers money to fund the gap where private companies have failed

So far, from what I've seen at least, it's just info posted that local councillors have seemingly received from Arriva for what is proposed to be happening on various councillors social media pages, only bits have appeared so far for certain consistencies such as Ferryhill and around Brandon/Brancepeth areas.

(18 May 2023, 5:31 pm)V514DFT wrote I definitely see SC getting the 54

They might as well. Since they run the Sunday & evening. But the question is. Will it remain every 30 minutes or every hour. Could Slatyford run it and interwork it with say the 36 or something or would it stay at Walkergate and be ran by itself

(18 May 2023, 7:14 pm)Busu284 wrote They might as well. Since they run the Sunday & evening. But the question is. Will it remain every 30 minutes or every hour. Could Slatyford run it and interwork it with say the 36 or something or would it stay at Walkergate and be ran by itself

It's already every hour the 54. It depends if the route exists at all, wouldn't be surprised to see some of it ditched especially at the Eastern side as it's takes 65 minutes end to end which won't work unless it stays with the 51 and those services won't work unless they're interworking with the 52/53 because of how the timetable works.

(18 May 2023, 5:54 pm)cbma06 wrote Is there any links? to any of the proposed Arriva bus changes for July, or is it just scaremongering to get the local authorities to fork out more tax payers money to fund the gap where private companies have failed


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ENCTS payments are statutory payments that bus companies are entitled to, for revenue foregone to carry free ENCTS passengers. It's not funding to plug a gap (such as de-minimis or even BRG).

If Durham and Tees Valley have decided to reduce that core revenue stream that they are required to pay operators, how can they expect the same level of service to be provided?

It's clearly not scaremongering, as I understand around 30 vehicles are intended to be withdrawn across the whole Durham County operators licence.

Also apparently Durham knew of this impact back in March, yet officers still approved the budget position, so it really shouldn't come as a shock to councillors, unless of course they were not made aware to begin with.

I believe there are detailed changes for Tees Valley also, which haven't been made public yet. For 9th July start, registration is a week on Sunday.

(18 May 2023, 8:37 pm)RobinHood wrote If Durham and Tees Valley have decided to reduce that core revenue stream that they are required to pay operators, how can they expect the same level of service to be provided?

Imagine we'll therefore see similar cuts from the likes of Stagecoach around Stockton?

Found more Durham County proposals online, this time is for the 22/23 in Peterlee:

22 - hourly Durham to Sunderland with all trips via Easington Colliery, one journey an hour renumbered 22B running via Acre Rigg in Peterlee running Durham to Peterlee only. Late evening buses proposed withdrawal.

23 - half hourly Hartlepool - Peterlee, hourly Hartlepool - Sunderland. Some journeys to become 'college days only' to enable buses to operate 'East Durham College' contracts.

X22 - no longer serving Acre Rigg in Peterlee (no other publicly info avaliable on the X21/X22 as yet which I've seen at least).

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GNE X6 should be made every 30 mins now