(22 May 2023, 6:31 pm)Storx wrote Personally I don't see the issues with the 10/11. Least now people from Hendon and Pennywell on the 11 route get a direct bus to the Royal Hospital rather than a bulky good stores and a retail park next to the least used Metro station. I'm not sure why anyone would want to go on a bus to B&Q unless they're bored and randomly like browsing DIY stores as you literally couldn't buy anything. The rest of it is a 5 minute walk from the end of Hylton Road.

There's literally nothing else of note along there and the hourly 18 is more than enough.

They already do (technically) - through travel is allowed at Quarry View and Ocean Road, unless the bus terminates and either heads back or goes to the depot.

PVR of Sunderland will decrease by (approximately) 14 from July. Depends on how generous the timetables will be for stand time. If they really cut the stand time to the minimum, I can definitely see some major reliability issues happening.

(24 May 2023, 12:07 pm)Adtrainsam wrote PVR of Sunderland will decrease by (approximately) 14 from July. Depends on how generous the timetables will be for stand time. If they really cut the stand time to the minimum, I can definitely see some major reliability issues happening.

Thought it would of been more tbh

I take it...

The last 6 Manviros's
At least 8 gas buses

----


I wonder of the PVR reduction would allow another service to gain some of the electric buses.

20 are due for the E services but won't need all 20 out at the same time.. only need 10.

(24 May 2023, 12:07 pm)Adtrainsam wrote PVR of Sunderland will decrease by (approximately) 14 from July. Depends on how generous the timetables will be for stand time. If they really cut the stand time to the minimum, I can definitely see some major reliability issues happening.

How much time are you giving the 3 and 4 at each end? I've been told it's actually a decrease of 16, which would imply little-to-no standing time on either (rumours were 1 min either end on the 4, which is gonna be fun given it often takes more than a minute to get round the turning circle at Downhill). I don't know if this figure includes the 99 withdrawal though.

(24 May 2023, 5:34 pm)Michael wrote Thought it would of been more tbh

I take it...

The last 6 Manviros's
At least 8 gas buses

----


I wonder of the PVR reduction would allow another service to gain some of the electric buses.

20 are due for the E services but won't need all 20 out at the same time.. only need 10.

i keep hearing on here about the 20 electrics but i cant find any information anywhere else about them

(24 May 2023, 7:34 pm)toward6931 wrote i keep hearing on here about the 20 electrics but i cant find any information anywhere else about them

https://www.route-one.net/news/52-more-b...t-england/

Stagecoach North East: It is to receive 20 single-deckers for routes E1, E2 and E6 between Sunderland and South Shields.

Meanwhile, Arriva North East will gain 13 double-deckers and one single-decker for services 43, 44, 45 and 47 in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Tyneside and Northumberland. Go North East (GNE) will receive 18 double-deckers for its Angel 21 corridor between Newcastle, Chester-le-Street and Durham.

Thread here: https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showt...p?tid=4219

(24 May 2023, 7:17 pm)F114TML wrote How much time are you giving the 3 and 4 at each end? I've been told it's actually a decrease of 16, which would imply little-to-no standing time on either (rumours were 1 min either end on the 4, which is gonna be fun given it often takes more than a minute to get round the turning circle at Downhill). I don't know if this figure includes the 99 withdrawal though.

On the current timetables, if you cut out Gilley Law and Plains Farm on the 3 - you're looking at a round journey time of 79 minutes excluding stand time (currently 89 mins I believe). If we're working on a 15 minute frequency, you'd round that up to a 90 minutes giving 11 minutes stand time on the 3. (PVR: 8 to 6)

Similarly, with the 4, adding approx. 3 mins each way to cover Plains Farm will mean a round trip of 98 minutes. If we're working in increments of 15, then a 105 min round trip would give 7 mins stand time on one circuit. (PVR: 9 to 7)

A loss of PVR 16 sounds possible. My figure of 14 doesn't account for the possible withdrawal of the 99. From my calculations - you could squeeze out another 2 PVR by giving 1 minute (!!) stand time on a 10/11 circuit and no stand time on a round trip of the 16.

PVR:
Route 3: (8 to 6) -2
Route 4: (9 to 7) -2
Route 10/11: (10 to 8) -2 (this could be -3)
Route 13: (10 to 7) -3
Route 16: (9 to 7) -2 (this could be -3)
Route 20: (5 to 4) -1
Route 23: (7 to 5) -2

All other routes remain the same. This gives a PVR loss of 14 - unless they're being unrealistically adventurous, then it's a loss of 16.

Either way, stand time is being tightened up and it's gonna cause operational nightmares. I see 3s, 4s, 16s already bunching up during the day. I can imagine the chaos come July.

It amazes me that 4 bunches up so much, given you get 10 mins at Doxy and 6 at Downhill, and I don't find it all that hard to stick to time in the middle.

3 currently has 96 min (1hr 36m) round trip (for some reason the running boards don't seem to match the public timetables), including 2 min stand at either end. I think you're a bit generous with the journey time reduction. Pre-Covid (when it served Farra and Gilley alternately), it got 10 mins between Farra and the Prospect via Plains Farm, versus 12 mins now; on a night it gets 8 mins. Prospect to end of Plains Farm gets 4 mins (by the public timetable), so really you're only looking at a 6 minute reduction in time, not 10 - journey time of 88 mins excluding all standing time.
Here's the discrpency, it only seems to exist northbound, but the one on the left is Bustimes, the one on the right is the running board.


Current round trip on the 4 is 108 min (1hr 48m), including all standing time (92min/1hr 32m excluding it). Diversion round Plains Farm would take that up to 96min (1hr 36m) excluding stand time.

It would seem likely to me then that the 3 is the one that's gonna get 1 min either end (or possibly 2 min at Farra, and 0 min at Hylton - because the 3 currently runs like clockwork, oh wait), and the 4 gets a minimum 9 min total. If I'm correct, then that'll prove Dan's earlier suspicion that pulling the 3 from Plainsy is purely to cut the PVR further.

(24 May 2023, 9:02 pm)F114TML wrote It amazes me that 4 bunches up so much, given you get 10 mins at Doxy and 6 at Downhill, and I don't find it all that hard to stick to time in the middle.

3 currently has 96 min (1hr 36m) round trip (for some reason the running boards don't seem to match the public timetables), including 2 min stand at either end. I think you're a bit generous with the journey time reduction. Pre-Covid (when it served Farra and Gilley alternately), it got 10 mins between Farra and the Prospect via Plains Farm, versus 12 mins now; on a night it gets 8 mins. Prospect to end of Plains Farm gets 4 mins (by the public timetable), so really you're only looking at a 6 minute reduction in time, not 10 - journey time of 88 mins excluding all standing time.
Here's the discrpency, it only seems to exist northbound, but the one on the left is Bustimes, the one on the right is the running board.


Current round trip on the 4 is 108 min (1hr 48m), including all standing time (92min/1hr 32m excluding it). Diversion round Plains Farm would take that up to 96min (1hr 36m) excluding stand time.

It would seem likely to me then that the 3 is the one that's gonna get 1 min either end (or possibly 2 min at Farra, and 0 min at Hylton - because the 3 currently runs like clockwork, oh wait), and the 4 gets a minimum 9 min total. If I'm correct, then that'll prove Dan's earlier suspicion that pulling the 3 from Plainsy is purely to cut the PVR further.

Indeed, I've always wondered how and why the 4 bunches up so much.

Interesting about the 3 discrepancies - can really see reliability on the 3 plummeting sharply after these changes. Dan's probably right. The 3 has always gone through Plains Farm as far as I can remember, with the 4 providing/competing with the 20 down Durham Road from Town to the Board Inn.

also 23 always bunches up too

(24 May 2023, 7:39 pm)Michael wrote https://www.route-one.net/news/52-more-b...t-england/

Stagecoach North East: It is to receive 20 single-deckers for routes E1, E2 and E6 between Sunderland and South Shields.

Meanwhile, Arriva North East will gain 13 double-deckers and one single-decker for services 43, 44, 45 and 47 in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Tyneside and Northumberland. Go North East (GNE) will receive 18 double-deckers for its Angel 21 corridor between Newcastle, Chester-le-Street and Durham.

Thread here: https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showt...p?tid=4219

ah thanks for that, must have missed it first time round

PB0001987/38 Registered
CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD
Route: Middlegate to Owton Manor
Service number: 7 (7)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 06 Jul 2023


PB0001987/37 Registered
CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD
Route: Clavering to Owton Manor
Service number: 6
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 06 Jul 2023

(25 May 2023, 7:00 pm)Michael wrote PB0001987/38 Registered
CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD
Route: Middlegate to Owton Manor
Service number: 7 (7)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 06 Jul 2023


PB0001987/37 Registered
CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD
Route: Clavering to Owton Manor
Service number: 6
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 06 Jul 2023

Special timetable for the Tall Ships

(25 May 2023, 8:55 pm)Economic505 wrote Special timetable for the Tall Ships

i not sure it is they have been rumours of service reductions on the 6/7 for a few weeks this might well be that.  Stagecoach didn’t change them last time either but we will see then.

(26 May 2023, 7:50 am)col87 wrote i not sure it is they have been rumours of service reductions on the 6/7 for a few weeks this might well be that.  Stagecoach didn’t change them last time either but we will see then.

I looked it up using the CSV thing. It mentions the Tall Ships.

(21 May 2023, 10:15 am)Michael wrote CSV:


Sunderland:

10/11: Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 20 minutes on each route (every 10 minutes on common sections). Service 11 diverted via Hylton Road, rather than Pallion New Road

16: Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 15 minutes.

20: Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 12 minutes.

3/12/13: Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 15 minutes on Service 3 and 13. SERVICE 12 WITHDRAWN. Service 3 will now omit Plains Farm and Gilley Law.

X24: Minor change to the Monday to Friday 1745 trip ex Newcastle.

23: Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 15 minutes.

E1/E2/E6: Minor changes to Monday to Saturday daytimes to improve headways with South Shields services. Evenings reduced to hourly on each route (20 minutes combined), with the loop via St. Mary's Way withdrawn and all services following the regular daytime route via John Street.

4: Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 15 minutes. Will now operate via Plains Farm, replacing Service 3.

X1: Minor change to the Monday to Friday timetable



South Shields:


Service 1, 2: Saturday and Sunday morning service. Service 3, 4 Monday-Sunday regular service.Monday to Saturday daytime frequency on each route reduced to 15 minutes.


7/8: Monday-Sunday regular service. Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 15 minutes.

17: Monday - Sunday regular service. Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to 15 minutes.

18: Monday-Sunday regular service. Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to 15 minutes.

Bustimes.org are indicating timetables from "2nd July 2023" on the 10/11 and 20 in Sunderland - but still shows current times.

Example: https://bustimes.org/services/10-pennywe...2023-07-02

I wonder if that means the new timetables will be uploaded in the next couple of days?

(21 May 2023, 1:33 pm)Economic505 wrote As I mentioned other week, Essen Way and Tunstall Road will no longer have a bus service.

Isn't service 13 being diverted via Essen Way and Tunstall Road from 9th July?

(26 May 2023, 1:23 pm)XQ Zero wrote Isn't service 13 being diverted via Essen Way and Tunstall Road from 9th July?

Yes that’s correct, although I believe it will be 2nd July . I raised it with Nexus in relation to the service 99 consultation.

(25 May 2023, 8:40 am)Unber43 wrote also 23 always bunches up too

23 is shite as it is now, can't think how worse its going to get when its dropped to every 15 mins.

(27 May 2023, 7:18 am)Michael wrote 23 is shite as it is now, can't think how worse its going to get when its dropped to every 15 mins.

Pretty sure it has like 4 mins at Thorney Close and 2 mins at Dene Estate which isn't enough.

Also its quite a hard route to make up time when running dead especially if you get a changeover

Also the route takes 71 mins round trip (without layovers) at every 15 mins it will have 4 mins, 2 mins either end. SC Sunderland reliability will hit the floor

(27 May 2023, 8:46 am)Unber43 wrote Pretty sure it has like 4 mins at Thorney Close and 2 mins at Dene Estate which isn't enough.

Also its quite a hard route to make up time when running dead especially if you get a changeover

Currently 9 mins at Thorney and 4 at Dene Estate. I've been on 23s that have bunched up - most recent was because I left the depot some 8 minutes late and picked up two bus loads of schoolkids from Dene Estate, but by the time I got back to Dene Estate I was on time. It seems to me to only really bunch up if it's got a particularly slow driver on, or there's been a problem somewhere.

(27 May 2023, 8:46 am)Unber43 wrote Pretty sure it has like 4 mins at Thorney Close and 2 mins at Dene Estate which isn't enough.

Also its quite a hard route to make up time when running dead especially if you get a changeover

Also the route takes 71 mins round trip (without layovers) at every 15 mins it will have 4 mins, 2 mins either end. SC Sunderland reliability will hit the floor

If it's 71 minutes running time round trip, then it will surely be a 90-minute total round trip on a 15 minute headway (6 buses rather than the 7 used now on an 84 minute round trip).

(26 May 2023, 10:26 am)Michael wrote Bustimes.org are indicating timetables from "2nd July 2023" on the 10/11 and 20 in Sunderland - but still shows current times.

Example: https://bustimes.org/services/10-pennywe...2023-07-02

I wonder if that means the new timetables will be uploaded in the next couple of days?

Looks like the new timetables for Sunderland are on traveline, if you change the date to 10th July, found it by typing in the service number.


New X24 timetables includes a Sunday service.

every 30 mins aswell

(28 May 2023, 7:20 pm)Unber43 wrote every 30 mins aswell

Ye, I wonder if they're taking a risk, due to the £2 single fare being extended?

About time.

Stagecoach SF1 will run from Newcastle Monument (I'm guessing Blackett Street) every 5 minutes starting at 22.00 and running till 00.40 to Kingston Park Shops on the 10th June

I’m guessing the open top service 19 from the north estates to seaburn seafront won’t be returning? Shame as it seemed to do well

(03 Jun 2023, 11:50 pm)Acky81 wrote I’m guessing the open top service 19 from the north estates to seaburn seafront won’t be returning? Shame as it seemed to do well

Doesn't look like it, the open tops look be allocated to the E services now.

23rd July 2023:

The Start of Newcastle changes?


PB0002404/8
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 3940 (39, 40) Chapel House or Dumpling Hall Wallsend or Walker


PB0002404/27
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 6 (7) Freeman Hospital Metrocentre

(09 Jun 2023, 9:02 am)Michael wrote 23rd July 2023:

The Start of Newcastle changes?


PB0002404/8
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 3940 (39, 40) Chapel House or Dumpling Hall Wallsend or Walker


PB0002404/27
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 6 (7) Freeman Hospital Metrocentre

Wonder what these could be changing