(29 Jul 2023, 9:05 pm)Storx wrote Honestly can't disagree if I had to be honest. It's certainly a bit bizarre, it's almost as the Tory clown is trying to look like he's doing something when he's in reality doing nothing. No doubt it'll be all about linking his fantasy airport aswell.

Arriva's and Houchens relations seem rock bottom lately though, it's just constant sniping and it's not exactly discreet either.

No it’s not discreet we will wait and see if Arriva try to block this route as well then because it will be surprising if they don’t. 
When you consider at the moment Stagecoach are getting funding for 

Tees Flex 
The Saltburn 1/2 
The teesport 101 
Now this 6/6A something is starting to look a bit suspicious.  Tees flex is supposed to be for areas without a proper service yet at the moment Stagecoach are getting funding for duplicates off the combined authority as Tees Flex could very easily cover all them. 
At the moment all Ben and the combined authority are doing is mostly seeming to be giving Stagecoach money to duplicate areas that already are served by Arriva. The funding could have been used for Arriva to improve existing network. This is just potentially damaging relations between the two companies as the more Stagecoach go against Arriva the more Arriva are probably going to be tempted to fight back so could end up been both good and bad news for passengers.

They all went out to competitive tender… and Stagecoach are going in quite cheap at the minute to win contract work…


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(30 Jul 2023, 7:17 pm)col87 wrote No it’s not discreet we will wait and see if Arriva try to block this route as well then because it will be surprising if they don’t. 
When you consider at the moment Stagecoach are getting funding for 

Tees Flex 
The Saltburn 1/2 
The teesport 101 
Now this 6/6A something is starting to look a bit suspicious.  Tees flex is supposed to be for areas without a proper service yet at the moment Stagecoach are getting funding for duplicates off the combined authority as Tees Flex could very easily cover all them. 
At the moment all Ben and the combined authority are doing is mostly seeming to be giving Stagecoach money to duplicate areas that already are served by Arriva. The funding could have been used for Arriva to improve existing network. This is just potentially damaging relations between the two companies as the more Stagecoach go against Arriva the more Arriva are probably going to be tempted to fight back so could end up been both good and bad news for passengers.

With some 'inside' knowledge that I do have, Arriva have already warned TVCA that if they start this new service early, they will flag it with the Traffic Commissioner (Ironically Stagecoach were thankful that Arriva did it last time as they didn't have the staff for the 1/2 given Ben extended TeesFlex at the same time).

I'm sure we will all have views on this (whether it is right or wrong), but the fact the traffic commissioner blocked the 1/2 earlier this year suggests that Arriva were right to object, as it was against legislation. The notice period is to ensure fair competition.

Arriva have a good working relationship with Stagecoach, they aren't about to start a bus war.

The new Service 6/6A is only until March 2024, pending further funding hopes. Without that, it's gone as quickly as it arrived.

I do agree though, the millions poured into securing whole new services over the top of existing network could have been better used to benefit many more people. Imagine how many evenings, Sundays or smaller ad-hoc improvements could have been made within the Tees Valley? Instead TVCA spaffing their £1.5mil BSIP+ funding up the wall like a kid in a sweet shop with the first fiver he's ever had.

Clearly, TVCA have little intelligence within their respective public transport officers. Shame really, as local people should have been able to vote or have some kind of say on how that money should have been spent. Even if it was ring-fenced on specific things.

(30 Jul 2023, 7:56 pm)RobinHood wrote With some 'inside' knowledge that I do have, Arriva have already warned TVCA that if they start this new service early, they will flag it with the Traffic Commissioner (Ironically Stagecoach were thankful that Arriva did it last time as they didn't have the staff for the 1/2 given Ben extended TeesFlex at the same time).

Must say though, from no knowledge, it doesn't come across as in the best of terms as otherwise they'd just let it slide. I know it's law etc but they're clearly not happy about them existing for whatever reason, I could guess why.

Btw, forgot to quote and I'm being lazy, I don't think there'll be a bus war. It'll be more of a, the X3 doesn't make money because of the 1/2, we're cancelling it problem result I have a feeling will end up or there's not enough passengers on the 15 we're dropping it down to every 20 minutes etc. Stagecoach and Arriva seem to be fine lately, especially with the Walkergate co-operation.

(30 Jul 2023, 7:53 pm)tyresmoke wrote They all went out to competitive tender… and Stagecoach are going in quite cheap at the minute to win contract work…


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“Going in cheap to win contract work” isn’t a sustainable business model, especially when operating costs are increasing due to high inflation.

(30 Jul 2023, 7:17 pm)col87 wrote No it’s not discreet we will wait and see if Arriva try to block this route as well then because it will be surprising if they don’t. 
When you consider at the moment Stagecoach are getting funding for 

Tees Flex 
The Saltburn 1/2 
The teesport 101 
Now this 6/6A something is starting to look a bit suspicious.  Tees flex is supposed to be for areas without a proper service yet at the moment Stagecoach are getting funding for duplicates off the combined authority as Tees Flex could very easily cover all them. 
At the moment all Ben and the combined authority are doing is mostly seeming to be giving Stagecoach money to duplicate areas that already are served by Arriva. The funding could have been used for Arriva to improve existing network. This is just potentially damaging relations between the two companies as the more Stagecoach go against Arriva the more Arriva are probably going to be tempted to fight back so could end up been both good and bad news for passengers.

Where would the 6/6a run from 

Do feel we need a service connecting redcar and marske back up with Stockton

(30 Jul 2023, 7:56 pm)RobinHood wrote With some 'inside' knowledge that I do have, Arriva have already warned TVCA that if they start this new service early, they will flag it with the Traffic Commissioner (Ironically Stagecoach were thankful that Arriva did it last time as they didn't have the staff for the 1/2 given Ben extended TeesFlex at the same time).

I'm sure we will all have views on this (whether it is right or wrong), but the fact the traffic commissioner blocked the 1/2 earlier this year suggests that Arriva were right to object, as it was against legislation. The notice period is to ensure fair competition.

Arriva have a good working relationship with Stagecoach, they aren't about to start a bus war.

The new Service 6/6A is only until March 2024, pending further funding hopes. Without that, it's gone as quickly as it arrived.

I do agree though, the millions poured into securing whole new services over the top of existing network could have been better used to benefit many more people. Imagine how many evenings, Sundays or smaller ad-hoc improvements could have been made within the Tees Valley? Instead TVCA spaffing their £1.5mil BSIP+ funding up the wall like a kid in a sweet shop with the first fiver he's ever had.

Clearly, TVCA have little intelligence within their respective public transport officers. Shame really, as local people should have been able to vote or have some kind of say on how that money should have been spent. Even if it was ring-fenced on specific things.

Arriva might well have had a good relationship with Stagecoach however at the moment I get the impression especially with things like this it might not last.   It will certainly be interesting though to see if Stagecoach take it on commercially or even consider going back into the Darlington area with other services

(31 Jul 2023, 2:47 pm)Ryland wrote Where would the 6/6a run from 

Do feel we need a service connecting redcar and marske back up with Stockton

It’s going to be Stockton - Darlington via Ingleby Barwick, Yarm and Teesside Airport.  

They possible scoop for a summer service between Stockton and Redcar but not sure it would work all year round.

(31 Jul 2023, 2:47 pm)Ryland wrote Where would the 6/6a run from 

Do feel we need a service connecting redcar and marske back up with Stockton

I'm all for improving links and getting rid of hub & spoke in the majority of cases, but what sort of time or convenience would be saved getting a direct bus vs changing in Middlesbrough?

(31 Jul 2023, 4:19 pm)col87 wrote It’s going to be Stockton - Darlington via Ingleby Barwick, Yarm and Teesside Airport.  

They possible scoop for a summer service between Stockton and Redcar but not sure it would work all year round.

I know this is the complete wrong thread but I always think the X67 extended through onto the now X2 wouldn't be bad so you'd have something like

New Marske - Redcar - Middlesbrough - Teesside Park (New) - Stockton - Darlington

Would connect all the main towns together on one bus. It should be doable on a round trip, driver wise. I don't know what the demand would be like for Teesside Park but the connections currently are appalling and there always seems to be a few people about waiting for the X12.

There used to be a similar through service, the X4/X14 from Saltburn - Maske - Redcar - Middlesbrough - Darlington - Shildon - Bishop Auckland, however the route suffered reliability issues due to the distance and the service was split at Middlesbrough rather than through works. Then the X14 was axed to bits before being replaced by the X66 between Darlington and Stockton. Only when Go North East came along with the OK1, Arriva decided to improve the X66 between Middlesbrough and Darlington.

Here is one of the DAF SB3000 / Plaxton Prima that were used on the service - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...9948527713

As the service got chopped up, it was reduced to using buses, usually a mix of Optare Delta and Optare Prismas, even Leyland Lynxes appeared, managed a Lynx between Bishop Auckland and Darlington, my regret was that I wish I had the time to go to Middlesbrough on it, wouldn't have minded a bit of Lynx thrash along the A66. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...9710740792

It showing at photo of a Mercedes-Benz minibus in white on Facebook stagecoach on Stockton depot in something done five 300 in exchange if read it Cleveland transit page of w white Mercedes minibus

(01 Aug 2023, 2:01 am)glen wrote It showing at photo of a Mercedes-Benz minibus in white on Facebook stagecoach on Stockton depot in something done five 300 in exchange if read it Cleveland transit page of w white Mercedes minibus

Three times I read this and it was more confusing each time

Thanks for info mate

(31 Jul 2023, 11:23 pm)Rapidsnap wrote There used to be a similar through service, the X4/X14 from Saltburn - Maske - Redcar - Middlesbrough - Darlington - Shildon - Bishop Auckland, however the route suffered reliability issues due to the distance and the service was split at Middlesbrough rather than through works. Then the X14 was axed to bits before being replaced by the X66 between Darlington and Stockton. Only when Go North East came along with the OK1, Arriva decided to improve the X66 between Middlesbrough and Darlington.

Here is one of the DAF SB3000 / Plaxton Prima that were used on the service - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...9948527713

As the service got chopped up, it was reduced to using buses, usually a mix of Optare Delta and Optare Prismas, even Leyland Lynxes appeared, managed a Lynx between Bishop Auckland and Darlington, my regret was that I wish I had the time to go to Middlesbrough on it, wouldn't have minded a bit of Lynx thrash along the A66. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...9710740792

Yeah I had a feeling that the services would've had reliability issues from the length, mind I wouldn't like to be sitting on a Temsa for the length of it talking about buses. How buses have degraded over the years from the likes of the Lynx etc.

(31 Jul 2023, 11:23 pm)Rapidsnap wrote There used to be a similar through service, the X4/X14 from Saltburn - Maske - Redcar - Middlesbrough - Darlington - Shildon - Bishop Auckland, however the route suffered reliability issues due to the distance and the service was split at Middlesbrough rather than through works. Then the X14 was axed to bits before being replaced by the X66 between Darlington and Stockton. Only when Go North East came along with the OK1, Arriva decided to improve the X66 between Middlesbrough and Darlington.

Here is one of the DAF SB3000 / Plaxton Prima that were used on the service - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...9948527713

As the service got chopped up, it was reduced to using buses, usually a mix of Optare Delta and Optare Prismas, even Leyland Lynxes appeared, managed a Lynx between Bishop Auckland and Darlington, my regret was that I wish I had the time to go to Middlesbrough on it, wouldn't have minded a bit of Lynx thrash along the A66. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...9710740792

Most of the improvements to the X66 occurred before and after the brief period the OK1 ran to Boro, increased to a half hourly frequency around 2010 when coaches were put on the service then X67 came along in 2015 after the MAX upgrade a year prior. Only thing that really changed around the time of the OK1 was the allocation from coaches to Omni's which the OK1 may have had an affect on but was also likely down to complaints and legal challenges surrounding the poor accessibility of the coaches on the service.

Why the E200mmc have not been repaint in new colours yet? Why have no been took of the Stockton E200mmc?

(03 Aug 2023, 12:39 am)glen wrote Why the E200mmc have not been repaint in new colours yet? Why have no been took of the Stockton E200mmc?

Has been plenty of older/less recently painted stuff than those to do first

Thanks for info mate

(07 Apr 2023, 2:08 am)glen wrote All like to see is new buses come stagecoach north east  if for Newcastle or Sunderland or south shield or Teesside and hartlepool to

(03 Aug 2023, 5:21 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Has been plenty of older/less recently painted stuff than those to do first

Yeah they seem to love painting buses they withdraw 2 weeks after

Why paint the alx300 when going to withdrawn them in the first place?

(05 Aug 2023, 1:04 pm)Lollist wrote Yeah they seem to love painting buses they withdraw 2 weeks after

All of Stockton’s Olympians got done about 6 months before they were withdrawn…


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(03 Aug 2023, 5:21 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Has been plenty of older/less recently painted stuff than those to do first

Yep like the 60 plate E400's which havent even saw a refresh since they were new, im sure even the 58 reg E400's had some form of refresh when they were debranded for the 1 not sure on the batch that were branded for the 22 mind

(05 Aug 2023, 3:35 pm)V514DFT wrote Yep like the 60 plate E400's which havent even saw a refresh since they were new, im sure even the 58 reg E400's had some form of refresh when they were debranded for the 1 not sure on the batch that were branded for the 22 mind

Most of them were repainted in 2016/17 when they ditched the Club22 branding.  Exceptions being 19387 which retained the Club22 branding a couple of years longer and of course 19385 which is still running around with the defunct branding applied.

(25 Jul 2023, 10:19 am)Kuyoyo wrote For the last time, Hartlepool won't be getting full size buses on long-term allocation.
Hopefully, at least some of the ALXs are revived when someone realised the real vehicles that should be stood down after these changes are the 275xx E300s - given 27508 has now been VOR for the best part of 4 years, and 27507 is also now dumped in the dead row after the weekend. None of the drivers like them and they have the turning circle of a cruise ship. Plus they are actually the oldest vehicles in the fleet left in front-line service.

i do think it could also make to take the worst of the fleet out of service first, theres plenty to choose from the like of the GEN 1 E300s, the 08 E300s, the MANviro E200s to name a few, obviously if an ALX300 is on its last legs then fair enough but removing them because of age alone i think is ridiculous

(23 Jul 2023, 6:19 pm)Storx wrote They're going to Walkergate according to the Stagecoach fleet lists and the 62/63 is based at Slatyford so can't see that.

I have a feeling the second batch will directly replace buses on either the 12 or 38 but this lot is unknown. They've blatantly been redirected to here to get arid of the gas buses from Sunderland. It won't be a co-incidence that there's 14 buses being redirected + the 20 electrics just happens to total the number of gas buses ignoring the few which have semi been withdrawn.

If I had to take a punt, I'll say it's the 60 Plate Enviro 400's and 27723 - 27725 which will end up going to Sunderland. They've gradually been moving the 60 plates out over the past few years and the rest of the 11 plates are already there. More singles could move out aswell tbh, there's absolutely no need for 14 singles for a PVR 5 as the 317 is the only single decker route at Walkergate.

i think the reason for an overly large amount of singles at walkergate was to help with the increasingly unreliability of the hybrids, mind you if there's 24 new MMCs earmarked you could send all 26? (correct me if im wrong) hybrids to Sunderland. using 2 of the spare singles to cover for the missing 2 that would make 26

i would then use that as an excuse to remove 13 gas buses from service ready for transfer to wherever until Sunderland has got used to operating the hybrids, the excess singles at walkergate could potentially be used to either oust further gas buses or helping to oust either the MANviro E200s

(06 Aug 2023, 2:12 am)toward6931 wrote i think the reason for an overly large amount of singles at walkergate was to help with the increasingly unreliability of the hybrids, mind you if there's 24 new MMCs earmarked you could send all 26? (correct me if im wrong) hybrids to Sunderland. using 2 of the spare singles to cover for the missing 2 that would make 26

i would then use that as an excuse to remove 13 gas buses from service ready for transfer to wherever until Sunderland has got used to operating the hybrids, the excess singles at walkergate could potentially be used to either oust further gas buses or helping to oust either the MANviro E200s

Aye I believe you're right there.

Even known I don't disagree, I'm not sure Sunderland will be open on taking the Hybrid's on. I could imagine there'll be a massive backlash losing the gas buses (which as far as I'm aware are generally liked by the driver's) and getting the Hybrids which well less said about them. I have a feeling they'll get the 60 plates or whatever instead personally, with the hybrids limping on at Walkergate until they go to scrap.

(06 Aug 2023, 10:32 am)Storx wrote Aye I believe you're right there.

Even known I don't disagree, I'm not sure Sunderland will be open on taking the Hybrid's on. I could imagine there'll be a massive backlash losing the gas buses (which as far as I'm aware are generally liked by the driver's) and getting the Hybrids which well less said about them. I have a feeling they'll get the 60 plates or whatever instead personally, with the hybrids limping on at Walkergate until they go to scrap.

Rather not have the Hybrids tbh, rather keep the gas buses.


Its been over a month now since the changes and I can give a little review and say, the changes have made the services worse for reliability, always late but on a good side of things, the buses are busy - so older deckers might not be a bad temp replacement for them...


or... the 60 reg deckers could just replace the Hybrids at Newcastle?

Have all alx300 man's go now why all have be man's been withdrawn now that mean Stockton depot short on buses then?

(06 Aug 2023, 12:18 pm)glen wrote Have all alx300 man's go now why all have be man's been withdrawn now that mean Stockton depot short on buses then?

No because as explained the services have been reduced and lost about 5 or 6 buses out of the requirement at Stockton.
Of course 4 are going back in in a couple of weeks… who knows what they’ll get to cover that


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