(14 Aug 2023, 5:32 am)streetdeckfan wrote If the E400s are reliable, I see no reason why they couldn't be refurbished and put into 'front line' service. 
The one we had on the X21 was fine, the only real issue was with the seats! Oh, and it allegedly broke down, but I'm sceptical whether that really happened as it seemed to drive back to the depot fine!

Don't forget Arriva went from 2017 till late last year without any new buses. Even then they probably got the deckers last year to comply with the lez in Newcastle. At least GNE were ordering new buses until covid came along and wrecked everything.

(14 Aug 2023, 5:32 am)streetdeckfan wrote If the E400s are reliable, I see no reason why they couldn't be refurbished and put into 'front line' service. 
The one we had on the X21 was fine, the only real issue was with the seats! Oh, and it allegedly broke down, but I'm sceptical whether that really happened as it seemed to drive back to the depot fine!

Speaking of the X21......if GNE could sort the X30/X31 interworking patterns, a clean batch of Enviro's at Riverside (6341-55) covering both the X10 & X21 would make more sense. Rather than having just 6352-55 getting a daily hammering up and down the A19. Not forgetting there'd be enough on Sundays to allocate to the 10/10A/10B to save fuel and conserve the B9TLs.

3941-43 seem to always break down on the 20, sometimes it lasts a full service, however there is a lot of times where they've never made it past its first return trip.

(14 Aug 2023, 9:54 am)ian foster wrote Don't forget Arriva went from 2017 till late last year without any new buses. Even then they probably got the deckers last year to comply with the lez in Newcastle. At least GNE were ordering new buses until covid came along and wrecked everything.

Two wrongs don't make a right...

(14 Aug 2023, 10:23 am)L469 YVK wrote Speaking of the X21......if GNE could sort the X30/X31 interworking patterns, a clean batch of Enviro's at Riverside (6341-55) covering both the X10 & X21 would make more sense. Rather than having just 6352-55 getting a daily hammering up and down the A19. Not forgetting there'd be enough on Sundays to allocate to the 10/10A/10B to save fuel and conserve the B9TLs.

GNE just needs a big order to replace about 150/80 buses

(14 Aug 2023, 10:34 am)Unber43 wrote GNE just needs a big order to replace about 150/80 buses

And which bank are they going to turn over to pay for that...?

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(14 Aug 2023, 10:37 am)Adrian wrote And which bank are they going to turn over to pay for that...?

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I'm sure a clever legal beagle could sue BI and get all the money spent on creating desire back. 
Seeing as it didn't and doesn't.

(14 Aug 2023, 10:37 am)Adrian wrote And which bank are they going to turn over to pay for that...?

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Well I never said they were going to do that, but thats the order they need to upgrade their aging fleet

(14 Aug 2023, 12:03 pm)Unber43 wrote Well I never said they were going to do that, but thats the order they need to upgrade their aging fleet

Yeah, but as has already been explained above, they're unlikely to gain anywhere near that level of funding for new vehicles whose the financial position is so poor. They'll likely to continue receiving cast-offs from elsewhere, unless there's a contractual requirement for new buses (and I'd imagine they'd factor that into their bid price!)

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(14 Aug 2023, 10:28 am)Unber43 wrote 3941-43 seem to always break down on the 20, sometimes it lasts a full service, however there is a lot of times where they've never made it past its first return trip.

Theyre 18 years old and spent most of their life on the X10, what do you expect?

(14 Aug 2023, 3:04 pm)V514DFT wrote Theyre 18 years old and spent most of their life on the X10, what do you expect?

Well then they shouldn't be put on a route they constantly break down on.

(14 Aug 2023, 4:24 pm)Unber43 wrote Well then they shouldn't be put on a route they constantly break down on.

And as stated numerous amounts of times, its not that simple

(14 Aug 2023, 3:04 pm)V514DFT wrote Theyre 18 years old and spent most of their life on the X10, what do you expect?

In fairness I was on 3943 on the weekend and it was dire. It can be 18 years old all it wants, but the thing was borderline dangerously slow when pulling away. 

While not quite the same in terms of previous life, there were 20+ year old vehicles of the same type being used on express work daily as late as the start of last year by another operator. So age clearly isn't always a barrier to an old vehicle performing well, and there are likely other factors at play here. It may just be that 3943 is needing some major TLC.

(14 Aug 2023, 6:06 pm)mb134 wrote In fairness I was on 3943 on the weekend and it was dire. It can be 18 years old all it wants, but the thing was borderline dangerously slow when pulling away. 

While not quite the same in terms of previous life, there were 20+ year old vehicles of the same type being used on express work daily as late as the start of last year by another operator. So age clearly isn't always a barrier to an old vehicle performing well, and there are likely other factors at play here. It may just be that 3943 is needing some major TLC.

Said it yourself, i need'nt say anything more

Before I left GNE I regularly had 3942/3943 allocated on my scholars run (I actually chose them on a few occasions). 3942 remains one of the best buses I've ever driven despite its age and Euro 6 modifications. It sat at 62 on the A1 and only the coaches could match it in that respect. I admit it wasn't the best on hills however it was better than alot of other buses at Deptford. 3943 however, despite being the same age and used on the same Newcastle to Middlesbrough route when new was noticeably different. Whether this was due to the Euro 6 mods or an unrelated issue I have no idea (it did drink oil and often more oil than diesel). It wouldn't pull away on hills at all (the accelerator simply didn't respond) and it wouldn't rev in gear with the handbrake on in order to pull out at busy junctions. I'm sure I read (maybe on here) that it was off the road recently needing a new engine/engine work? I cannot comment on 3941.

I think this is the perfect illustration of 2 vehicles of the same specification and age (as well as used on the same routes) being completely different. Another example of mine would be 6356 and 6357. 7132 was also very temperamental but its sister vehicles were fine. Is it down to maintenance or how the parts have worn down over time? Preventative or reactive maintenance seems to be a common debate. How much TLC would you give an 18 year old vehicle? Would you keep a car from new with sky high mileage at 18 years old? I'd hazard a guess that the Euro 6 modifications on the B7's are probably worth more than the vehicles themselves.

(14 Aug 2023, 4:31 pm)V514DFT wrote And as stated numerous amounts of times, its not that simple

Yeah i get that but its two-three buses that shouldnt be on the route surely it would just be better to maybe alllocate something different or swap buses for runs rather than have it break down on the first trip of the day every other time and have a driver missing routes and a enginner be called out.

(14 Aug 2023, 6:36 pm)morritt89 wrote Before I left GNE I regularly had 3942/3943 allocated on my scholars run (I actually chose them on a few occasions). 3942 remains one of the best buses I've ever driven despite its age and Euro 6 modifications. It sat at 62 on the A1 and only the coaches could match it in that respect. I admit it wasn't the best on hills however it was better than  alot of other buses at Deptford. 3943 however, despite being the same age and used on the same Newcastle to Middlesbrough route when new was noticeably different.  Whether this was due to the Euro 6 mods or an unrelated issue I have no idea (it did drink oil and often more oil than diesel). It wouldn't pull away on hills at all (the accelerator simply didn't respond) and it wouldn't rev in gear with the handbrake on in order to pull out at busy junctions. I'm sure I read (maybe on here) that it was off the road recently needing a new engine/engine work? I cannot comment on 3941. 

I think this is the perfect illustration of 2 vehicles of the same specification and age (as well as used on the same routes) being  completely different. Another example of mine would be 6356 and 6357. 7132 was also very temperamental but its sister vehicles were fine. Is it down to maintenance or how the parts have worn down over time? Preventative or reactive maintenance seems to be a common  debate. How much TLC would you give an 18 year old vehicle? Would you keep a car from new with sky high mileage at 18 years old? I'd hazard a guess that the Euro 6 modifications on the B7's are probably worth more than the vehicles themselves.

Very much so. 

I talked to a few drivers I knew well at Arriva last year, and they said similar about 7445 and 7446. Two buses which for much of their lives were always allocated in a pair to a depot, yet at the end couldn't have been much further apart. 7445 had constant mechanical issues, was extremely sluggish, and just generally not liked by drivers (or engineering, I imagine!). 7446, on the other hand, didn't seem to have as many issues and spent a large number of it's last days covering E400s on X14 or X21/22 boards.

At this stage I really don't see the issue with the age of most of GNE's fleet (aside from a few examples such as the oldest OmniDekka's), for someone the size of and network of GNE its about right really, the ex London cast offs coming in within the last year or so are still argubly considered an improvement over the previous 06 plate B7TLs which weren't particularly quick despite sounding like "Jet Engines" as quoted by frustrated residents who now have them at Go South Coast.

Whilst the interiors could probs be a bit nicer, at very least the B9TLs have been converted to single door unlike most of the cascades to come in the last few years which when in normal service are a right faff on, confusing and questionable on accessibility owing to ramp being at the centre door which generally aren't used owing to safety reasons.

See like with Deptford 5376 and 5372 while 5372 was better last time I was on it but overall they've been on the same routes etc and 5376 is so much better.

(14 Aug 2023, 6:36 pm)morritt89 wrote Before I left GNE I regularly had 3942/3943 allocated on my scholars run (I actually chose them on a few occasions). 3942 remains one of the best buses I've ever driven despite its age and Euro 6 modifications. It sat at 62 on the A1 and only the coaches could match it in that respect. I admit it wasn't the best on hills however it was better than  alot of other buses at Deptford. 3943 however, despite being the same age and used on the same Newcastle to Middlesbrough route when new was noticeably different.  Whether this was due to the Euro 6 mods or an unrelated issue I have no idea (it did drink oil and often more oil than diesel). It wouldn't pull away on hills at all (the accelerator simply didn't respond) and it wouldn't rev in gear with the handbrake on in order to pull out at busy junctions. I'm sure I read (maybe on here) that it was off the road recently needing a new engine/engine work? I cannot comment on 3941. 

I think this is the perfect illustration of 2 vehicles of the same specification and age (as well as used on the same routes) being  completely different. Another example of mine would be 6356 and 6357. 7132 was also very temperamental but its sister vehicles were fine. Is it down to maintenance or how the parts have worn down over time? Preventative or reactive maintenance seems to be a common  debate. How much TLC would you give an 18 year old vehicle? Would you keep a car from new with sky high mileage at 18 years old? I'd hazard a guess that the Euro 6 modifications on the B7's are probably worth more than the vehicles themselves.

I was in Kent recently, following one of their 54 reg Alx400's.
No plumes of smoke. No plumes diesel. 
Plenty of acceleration. Genuinely astounded at how quickly it pulled away from me in our 2l diesel sports spec SUV (granted, I wasn't racing back to the depot). 

Maintenance is a key player, but I'm pretty sure that counts as routine, preventative, reactive and routine.
Budget has to be a factor. Bodge jobs to get it back on the road or proper investment?

I'd love to know the apparant cost savings of a quick fix and the inevitable recovery* vs proper, preventative maintenance.

* repeat ad infinatum

Was on 3943 on Saturday gone. Can confirm it is like a dog that needs shot. Even the driver, a Philadelphia old hand, remarked that it needed scrapping.

I think engineering standards differ quite markedly between the different depots - perhaps some are under more time pressure, pressure from senior management to just get a bus on the road, and have a make do and mend attitude rather than fixing something properly first or even fifth time.

I know from experience we would get cast offs from other depots transferred in that in some cases took weeks of work to get to the minimum standard our depot engineers would accept - this wasn't particularly unusual, nor was putting knackered buses on premium routes shared between depots so that said knackered bus would end up at our depot, as they knew we would end up fixing it.  Similarly if a loan bus was required because of a high VOR, the vehicle that was sent often had more faults than the bus it was supposed to be covering for.

GNE has for a long time suffered from a penny pinching approach to part purchase - opting for the cheapest possible price regardless of quality - by someone who has no hands on engineering experience, which often results in more off road time in all terms.  I'm not sure whether this has changed in recent years - but I  suspect not.

With regard to the B7s I suspect given their age now they are suffering more electrical issues than anything else - the wiring behind the drivers seat panel isn't the most robust and probably in reality needs a bit more time and attention from a company like DiagTest.

I feel for the genuine engineers who I think is some respects are probably treated even worse than the drivers sometimes, and am not surprised there is such a high turnover of staff.  I suspect the experienced coach engineers they inherited from companies that went into liquidation didnt hang about long when they saw what they were expected to deal with, and what they were expected to sign off as fit for service.

Only 3 Durham Diamond are on out of 8, and 50% of X5/X15, with none of the corporte versions in service. Surely there must be something to replace these vehicles, but what ever replaces them should be similar specs

If they were to be replaced anytime soon, which is probably very unlikely, I can only see them being replaced by the London cascades or from the Angel Streetdeck's once the new electric buses arrive, but nothing has been said about them so who knows

(16 Aug 2023, 8:52 am)Unber43 wrote Only 3 Durham Diamond are on out of 8, and 50% of X5/X15, with none of the corporte versions in service. Surely there must be something to replace these vehicles, but what ever replaces them should be similar specs

Again only 3 out today on Durham Diamond, with 6070 also appearing.  

Xlines 6066 has made it out onto the Venture network, while 6050,6177,6193 & 6346 make up the X5/X15 allocation (6196 made some earlier appearance this morning)

I've noticed a few posts/comments on Facebook groups from GNE drivers stating that the Angel Streetdecks are pretty poor these days.

Given they're only just coming up to 6 years old, is this a poor purchasing decision or poor maintenance?

(18 Aug 2023, 8:05 pm)mb134 wrote I've noticed a few posts/comments on Facebook groups from GNE drivers stating that the Angel Streetdecks are pretty poor these days.

Given they're only just coming up to 6 years old, is this a poor purchasing decision or poor maintenance?

I wonder if the demise and resurrection of Wrightbus has anything to do with it given it's an integral design.

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(16 Aug 2023, 8:52 am)Unber43 wrote Only 3 Durham Diamond are on out of 8, and 50% of X5/X15, with none of the corporte versions in service. Surely there must be something to replace these vehicles, but what ever replaces them should be similar specs

You're beginning to sound like the cut and paste tweets that GNE used to make.

(18 Aug 2023, 8:34 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I wonder if the demise and resurrection of Wrightbus has anything to do with it given it's an integral design.

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I'd think it'd definitely have some sort of impact. 

Weren't they being built around a year before they went into administration, so prime time for when all money was being pumped out of the business and corners likely being cut?

i dont think it helps that they are basically thrown all over services and most of them run 12 hours a day atleast