Branding - Stay or go?
Branding - Stay or go?
(16 Sep 2023, 10:15 am)Fleetmaster I drive all over County Durham and Northumberland for work, and have been quite surprised at how effective a bland corporate livery is in making sure I have absolutely no interest in where these buses go anymore.
I just see numbers, and they don't mean anything, not least since it is not a given that the number 52 you saw in one remote village is the same one you saw a few towns over. The uniformity is even worse given there are now only a few vehicle types in use, the length and frequency much less the traffic type being no determinant to what turns up in in bland red. Not that the paying punter should really have to become a bus nerd to be able to comprehend the utility of the network.
The real tragedy is, given how many of GNEs routes actually travel vast distances while still somehow finding the time to call in at assorted nooks and crannies, it is exactly where route branding would make sense.
London uses route branding too btw, when it is trying to grow new markets and transform travel habits. That was of course the whole damn point of branding the GNE fleet in the first place.
(16 Sep 2023, 10:15 am)Fleetmaster I drive all over County Durham and Northumberland for work, and have been quite surprised at how effective a bland corporate livery is in making sure I have absolutely no interest in where these buses go anymore.
I just see numbers, and they don't mean anything, not least since it is not a given that the number 52 you saw in one remote village is the same one you saw a few towns over. The uniformity is even worse given there are now only a few vehicle types in use, the length and frequency much less the traffic type being no determinant to what turns up in in bland red. Not that the paying punter should really have to become a bus nerd to be able to comprehend the utility of the network.
The real tragedy is, given how many of GNEs routes actually travel vast distances while still somehow finding the time to call in at assorted nooks and crannies, it is exactly where route branding would make sense.
London uses route branding too btw, when it is trying to grow new markets and transform travel habits. That was of course the whole damn point of branding the GNE fleet in the first place.
(16 Sep 2023, 10:15 am)Fleetmaster I drive all over County Durham and Northumberland for work, and have been quite surprised at how effective a bland corporate livery is in making sure I have absolutely no interest in where these buses go anymore.
I just see numbers, and they don't mean anything, not least since it is not a given that the number 52 you saw in one remote village is the same one you saw a few towns over. The uniformity is even worse given there are now only a few vehicle types in use, the length and frequency much less the traffic type being no determinant to what turns up in in bland red. Not that the paying punter should really have to become a bus nerd to be able to comprehend the utility of the network.
The real tragedy is, given how many of GNEs routes actually travel vast distances while still somehow finding the time to call in at assorted nooks and crannies, it is exactly where route branding would make sense.
London uses route branding too btw, when it is trying to grow new markets and transform travel habits. That was of course the whole damn point of branding the GNE fleet in the first place.
(16 Sep 2023, 10:15 am)Fleetmaster I drive all over County Durham and Northumberland for work, and have been quite surprised at how effective a bland corporate livery is in making sure I have absolutely no interest in where these buses go anymore.
I just see numbers, and they don't mean anything, not least since it is not a given that the number 52 you saw in one remote village is the same one you saw a few towns over. The uniformity is even worse given there are now only a few vehicle types in use, the length and frequency much less the traffic type being no determinant to what turns up in in bland red. Not that the paying punter should really have to become a bus nerd to be able to comprehend the utility of the network.
The real tragedy is, given how many of GNEs routes actually travel vast distances while still somehow finding the time to call in at assorted nooks and crannies, it is exactly where route branding would make sense.
London uses route branding too btw, when it is trying to grow new markets and transform travel habits. That was of course the whole damn point of branding the GNE fleet in the first place.
(16 Sep 2023, 2:24 pm)Shrek Over the years, I've had plenty of people ask me if the 47 has been yet, never have they asked if the Red Kite has turned up. I think outside of the bus community, most people don't even notice or care about the branding.
(16 Sep 2023, 2:24 pm)Shrek Over the years, I've had plenty of people ask me if the 47 has been yet, never have they asked if the Red Kite has turned up. I think outside of the bus community, most people don't even notice or care about the branding.
(16 Sep 2023, 2:24 pm)Shrek Over the years, I've had plenty of people ask me if the 47 has been yet, never have they asked if the Red Kite has turned up. I think outside of the bus community, most people don't even notice or care about the branding.
(16 Sep 2023, 2:24 pm)Shrek Over the years, I've had plenty of people ask me if the 47 has been yet, never have they asked if the Red Kite has turned up. I think outside of the bus community, most people don't even notice or care about the branding.
(16 Sep 2023, 3:44 pm)Andreos1 The number of times I've heard it referred to as 'The Northern' or heard people refer to a bus number that no longer exists, but the route does - quite remarkable.I saw a DFDS branded bus on the 16 in Stanley today, yet I am unable to find any comms regarding the new extension between Stanley and Tyne Commission Quay. Does this service still go to Consett?
All that money. All that time.
Anyway, got to go, I need to get the shopping from Savacentre. Hopefully the 194 isn't too late.
(16 Sep 2023, 3:44 pm)Andreos1 The number of times I've heard it referred to as 'The Northern' or heard people refer to a bus number that no longer exists, but the route does - quite remarkable.I saw a DFDS branded bus on the 16 in Stanley today, yet I am unable to find any comms regarding the new extension between Stanley and Tyne Commission Quay. Does this service still go to Consett?
All that money. All that time.
Anyway, got to go, I need to get the shopping from Savacentre. Hopefully the 194 isn't too late.
Bustimes.org is all anyone needs to figure out the where/when/what regarding journeys they already plan to make, whether in the next few days or next few minutes.
Branding is the best way to alert potential future customers that a bus does actually exist can meet their future needs. It worked for me, several times.
This doesn't matter in London because most people have no real choice but to use the bus, and are deeply envious of those lucky few who have other options, regardless of whether that is a tube/train or a taxi/car. TfL is making a big effort to brand SUPERLOOP precisely because they know that in those outer areas, where people actually have a choice, usually a private car, they already know those people really wouldn't notice that the X26 has been renumbered the SL3, let alone the reason for that is because it has a slightly faster and more direct route and runs far more frequently as part of a nominal outer London loop. To those people, a bus is just a bus, easily ignored if you have no pressing need to know the network.
That is what a bland corporate identity does. Most people are normal, they don't spend their days remembering the number of the various buses they see in their daily lives, or poring over network maps, just on on off chance they one day might need that specific route.
Evolution is a powerful force, and it has given humans an uncanny ability to spot patterns in the visual environment for a reason. Evolution knows nothing of numbers and maps.
I only know the X1 that works its way through tiny streets in deepest darkest Durham is the same X1 that I see every time I arrive arrive Newcastle by bus, because it's branded. I have no pressing need to make that journey today, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Those places are well within my daily sphere.
What I do know from basic common sense, is that up here in the north east, there is absolutely no reason to assume an X1 seen in two different places tens of miles apart, is the same route.
(16 Sep 2023, 6:53 pm)Fleetmaster Bustimes.org is all anyone needs to figure out the where/when/what regarding journeys they already plan to make, whether in the next few days or next few minutes.
Branding is the best way to alert potential future customers that a bus does actually exist can meet their future needs. It worked for me, several times.
This doesn't matter in London because most people have no real choice but to use the bus, and are deeply envious of those lucky few who have other options, regardless of whether that is a tube/train or a taxi/car. TfL is making a big effort to brand SUPERLOOP precisely because they know that in those outer areas, where people actually have a choice, usually a private car, they already know those people really wouldn't notice that the X26 has been renumbered the SL3, let alone the reason for that is because it has a slightly faster and more direct route and runs far more frequently as part of a nominal outer London loop. To those people, a bus is just a bus, easily ignored if you have no pressing need to know the network.
That is what a bland corporate identity does. Most people are normal, they don't spend their days remembering the number of the various buses they see in their daily lives, or poring over network maps, just on on off chance they one day might need that specific route.
Evolution is a powerful force, and it has given humans an uncanny ability to spot patterns in the visual environment for a reason. Evolution knows nothing of numbers and maps.
I only know the X1 that works its way through tiny streets in deepest darkest Durham is the same X1 that I see every time I arrive arrive Newcastle by bus, because it's branded. I have no pressing need to make that journey today, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Those places are well within my daily sphere.
What I do know from basic common sense, is that up here in the north east, there is absolutely no reason to assume an X1 seen in two different places tens of miles apart, is the same route.
(16 Sep 2023, 6:53 pm)Fleetmaster Bustimes.org is all anyone needs to figure out the where/when/what regarding journeys they already plan to make, whether in the next few days or next few minutes.
Branding is the best way to alert potential future customers that a bus does actually exist can meet their future needs. It worked for me, several times.
This doesn't matter in London because most people have no real choice but to use the bus, and are deeply envious of those lucky few who have other options, regardless of whether that is a tube/train or a taxi/car. TfL is making a big effort to brand SUPERLOOP precisely because they know that in those outer areas, where people actually have a choice, usually a private car, they already know those people really wouldn't notice that the X26 has been renumbered the SL3, let alone the reason for that is because it has a slightly faster and more direct route and runs far more frequently as part of a nominal outer London loop. To those people, a bus is just a bus, easily ignored if you have no pressing need to know the network.
That is what a bland corporate identity does. Most people are normal, they don't spend their days remembering the number of the various buses they see in their daily lives, or poring over network maps, just on on off chance they one day might need that specific route.
Evolution is a powerful force, and it has given humans an uncanny ability to spot patterns in the visual environment for a reason. Evolution knows nothing of numbers and maps.
I only know the X1 that works its way through tiny streets in deepest darkest Durham is the same X1 that I see every time I arrive arrive Newcastle by bus, because it's branded. I have no pressing need to make that journey today, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Those places are well within my daily sphere.
What I do know from basic common sense, is that up here in the north east, there is absolutely no reason to assume an X1 seen in two different places tens of miles apart, is the same route.
Where I live, the main street in places like Horden, is a tiny back street. The whole place is a tiny backwater.
If Go North East doesn't want people to know there are direct bus links from major hubs to these tiny distant places, unless they are unlucky enough to have to make this journey as a regular commuter, so be it.
In my travels, I noticed a few points of interest in places like Horden that I might want to make a specific trip to one day. I have access to a car, and don't mind using the combination of bike and train either. It is only because I have a good idea of hwo vast GNE's operating area is, that I would even know to look up whether a direct bus exists, in some nightmare future where the whole network is one red blob. Others probably don't know these things, just like they don't spend a second perusing network maps and publicity just out of general interest.
(16 Sep 2023, 6:53 pm)Fleetmaster Bustimes.org is all anyone needs to figure out the where/when/what regarding journeys they already plan to make, whether in the next few days or next few minutes.
Branding is the best way to alert potential future customers that a bus does actually exist can meet their future needs. It worked for me, several times.
This doesn't matter in London because most people have no real choice but to use the bus, and are deeply envious of those lucky few who have other options, regardless of whether that is a tube/train or a taxi/car. TfL is making a big effort to brand SUPERLOOP precisely because they know that in those outer areas, where people actually have a choice, usually a private car, they already know those people really wouldn't notice that the X26 has been renumbered the SL3, let alone the reason for that is because it has a slightly faster and more direct route and runs far more frequently as part of a nominal outer London loop. To those people, a bus is just a bus, easily ignored if you have no pressing need to know the network.
That is what a bland corporate identity does. Most people are normal, they don't spend their days remembering the number of the various buses they see in their daily lives, or poring over network maps, just on on off chance they one day might need that specific route.
Evolution is a powerful force, and it has given humans an uncanny ability to spot patterns in the visual environment for a reason. Evolution knows nothing of numbers and maps.
I only know the X1 that works its way through tiny streets in deepest darkest Durham is the same X1 that I see every time I arrive arrive Newcastle by bus, because it's branded. I have no pressing need to make that journey today, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Those places are well within my daily sphere.
What I do know from basic common sense, is that up here in the north east, there is absolutely no reason to assume an X1 seen in two different places tens of miles apart, is the same route.
(16 Sep 2023, 6:53 pm)Fleetmaster Bustimes.org is all anyone needs to figure out the where/when/what regarding journeys they already plan to make, whether in the next few days or next few minutes.
Branding is the best way to alert potential future customers that a bus does actually exist can meet their future needs. It worked for me, several times.
This doesn't matter in London because most people have no real choice but to use the bus, and are deeply envious of those lucky few who have other options, regardless of whether that is a tube/train or a taxi/car. TfL is making a big effort to brand SUPERLOOP precisely because they know that in those outer areas, where people actually have a choice, usually a private car, they already know those people really wouldn't notice that the X26 has been renumbered the SL3, let alone the reason for that is because it has a slightly faster and more direct route and runs far more frequently as part of a nominal outer London loop. To those people, a bus is just a bus, easily ignored if you have no pressing need to know the network.
That is what a bland corporate identity does. Most people are normal, they don't spend their days remembering the number of the various buses they see in their daily lives, or poring over network maps, just on on off chance they one day might need that specific route.
Evolution is a powerful force, and it has given humans an uncanny ability to spot patterns in the visual environment for a reason. Evolution knows nothing of numbers and maps.
I only know the X1 that works its way through tiny streets in deepest darkest Durham is the same X1 that I see every time I arrive arrive Newcastle by bus, because it's branded. I have no pressing need to make that journey today, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Those places are well within my daily sphere.
What I do know from basic common sense, is that up here in the north east, there is absolutely no reason to assume an X1 seen in two different places tens of miles apart, is the same route.
(16 Sep 2023, 5:33 pm)MurdnunoC I saw a DFDS branded bus on the 16 in Stanley today, yet I am unable to find any comms regarding the new extension between Stanley and Tyne Commission Quay. Does this service still go to Consett?
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I see hundreds of GNE buses a day, in an assortment of towns and villages in County Durham and Northumberland. An increasing number are painted the same. Although an enthusiast in my spare time, I am not interested in buses enough from a day to day perspective to be bothered to take on the incredibly difficult task of figuring out the patterns based on only route numbers and destinations, just in case I one day might want to go to Horden or wherever. So by choosing to do away with branding, they are hoping I find the prospect of traveling on a GNE bus attractive enough to persuade me to research their routes and numbering without first being confident a direct bus even exists, and then hoping that if one doesn't exist, I find the prospect of changing between unfamiliar buses in a generic network a fun way to travel. I really don't. London sucks these days. Even simply painting a giant 38 on the front upper side of an otherwise all red Routemaster, made all the difference in persuading someone like me that they actually appreciate the most valuable thing about a bus, well before issues of reliability and specification, is does it go where I what to go?
(16 Sep 2023, 7:36 pm)Chris 1 I would have said turning up and consistently delivering a service is the best way to alert customers the bus can meet their needs? Preferably roughly on time. A missing branded bus is as infuriating as a missing corporate bus. Similar to comments above, folk round my way still refer The Northern and route numbers that haven’t existed for 20 years or more.
Stagecoach for example don’t operate round my way. If I ever had the need to visit say Throckley, I know that the 22 will do me fine. General day to day observation has alerted me to this, rather than the fizz and froth of a branded bus.
(16 Sep 2023, 7:36 pm)Chris 1 I would have said turning up and consistently delivering a service is the best way to alert customers the bus can meet their needs? Preferably roughly on time. A missing branded bus is as infuriating as a missing corporate bus. Similar to comments above, folk round my way still refer The Northern and route numbers that haven’t existed for 20 years or more.
Stagecoach for example don’t operate round my way. If I ever had the need to visit say Throckley, I know that the 22 will do me fine. General day to day observation has alerted me to this, rather than the fizz and froth of a branded bus.
As an outsider, I guarantee you wouldn't have the first idea how to make best use of the Stagecoach services that call at Throckley. There is so much more more the 22.
Having already done it however, I can tell you how absolutely wonderful it was to be able to spend one lazy Saturday in the summer taking in a walk along the south side of the Tyne to view the Dunston staithes and stop at the local Cafe for a mid-morning coffee, then walk a few yards to catch the Tyne Valley Ten to Corbridge in time for a lazy lunch and wander, confident I could catch a very fast bus home in the form of the 685, without missing a second of that afternoon's match.
The only reason I know about the Dunston Cafe is from biking the Tyne. The only reason I know Corebridge is from my necessarily in depth knowledge of the Stagecoach routes that pass close to me.
The only part of this journey I have never had any need or indeed opportunity to research or generally observe, is the TTT, whose utility to me up up that point had only ever been as a means to get from town to the MetroCentre, cursing the loss of the 100 and the ignorant GNE drivers to whom a Day Rider, paper or digital, is apparently a complete mystery.
I had the opportunity to notice it earlier that summer during an earlier visit to Corbridge because funnily enough, the bright brash livery is well suited to making it very easy to notice when it is in a place you hadn't expected it to be, and indeed the branding reassured me that at that moment, it was where it was supposed to be.
That stuck with me. That branding is quite literally the only reason I planned that itinerary that Saturday. And when I say plan, it didn't involve poring over network maps and studying timetables, because I already knew from general observation that the TTT is a frequent route.
I only even looked up the precise location and times of the stop in Dunston when I was finishing my coffee, and only because I didn't want to be looking for and standing at a stop needlessly. But if necessary, I knew if I simply left and went north, I would find a stop somewhere and a bus would be along eventually.
If GNE debrands the TTT, then they are losing custom like that. Bearing in mind they do charge a pretty penny even for single journeys like that, and it will presumably be even more if the drivers get their wish. Because my idea of a fun Saturday morning is absolutely not getting deeply intimate with the GNE app, studying where I can and cannot get to in a reasonable time frame.
Bus times is very easy to use for people who have no clue about existing networks or the various different operators, people who just want to get from A to B. You fire up a map, you find a stop at each end, and if you're lucky the same route and operator is listed at each end. You click the route number and a timetable is there ready to use, showing you the departure and arrival times for A and B.
Bustimes is difficult to use if A and B are not directly linked by a single route, requiring further research. Which is where route branding comes in.
What is the single best way to tell people looking to go from A to B but who don't have intimate knowledge the bus services in the area that a direct bus service exists, therefore unlocking the speed, convenience and basic utility of a generic tool like Bustimes.org?
Branding!
Where no direct bus exists, you are in a whole different world, and the hassle of knowing how to figure out what bus goes where is only the start of that hell for a casual bus user. But even then, simple logic suggests that even in that scenario, somehow who knows from simple basic observation that the bright orange bus goes from A to X, and the bright green bus goes from X to B, is in a better position than someone who is having to navigate a red spider's web or route numbers when using only a crappy company app.
(16 Sep 2023, 8:02 pm)Storx Have to relate to this, mind I'd use the X82 - tongue in cheek as it's 10x quicker.I don't think Branding as in names are the issue i think its the constant changing of the colour, the current Blue Drifter is the best one and shouldn't be changed, same could have been said with the old Coaster Blue before it was changed.
The brands have just caused confusion imo since some of them have been changed more times than GoNorthEast have pissed around with the local routes in Washington.
Are we going for the Creme Drifter, Green Drifter, The 9's, The Sunderland Blues, The Sunderland Violets, East Durham Explorer or Corporate bus? As that's what has been on the 61/9/61/61A in the past decade and no doubt there's other routes even worse.
Also if someone can use BusTimes, I'd be concerned if they don't understand the number of the route. BusTimes is not user friendly unless ironically you know the route number you want as brands aren't mentioned on there...?
(16 Sep 2023, 8:02 pm)Storx Have to relate to this, mind I'd use the X82 - tongue in cheek as it's 10x quicker.I don't think Branding as in names are the issue i think its the constant changing of the colour, the current Blue Drifter is the best one and shouldn't be changed, same could have been said with the old Coaster Blue before it was changed.
The brands have just caused confusion imo since some of them have been changed more times than GoNorthEast have pissed around with the local routes in Washington.
Are we going for the Creme Drifter, Green Drifter, The 9's, The Sunderland Blues, The Sunderland Violets, East Durham Explorer or Corporate bus? As that's what has been on the 61/9/61/61A in the past decade and no doubt there's other routes even worse.
Also if someone can use BusTimes, I'd be concerned if they don't understand the number of the route. BusTimes is not user friendly unless ironically you know the route number you want as brands aren't mentioned on there...?
(16 Sep 2023, 9:10 pm)MurdnunoC Branding works extremely well in Stanley. I'm off to Amsterdam tomorrow on that DFDS branded 16 I saw earlier today.I know this wasn't a serious comment, but I do think every depot having DFDS branded decker (bar Deptford where it would be a Streelite) I dont think it would be a bad idea it would be quite good for promotion.
(16 Sep 2023, 9:10 pm)MurdnunoC Branding works extremely well in Stanley. I'm off to Amsterdam tomorrow on that DFDS branded 16 I saw earlier today.I know this wasn't a serious comment, but I do think every depot having DFDS branded decker (bar Deptford where it would be a Streelite) I dont think it would be a bad idea it would be quite good for promotion.
I know this is a very small sample size, but I know eight people who regularly get the X1 between Washington and Newcastle. I sent them a message tonight asking if they know what the brand name for the x1 is. Only one or the eight knew.
I honestly don't think branding has a big impact for the majority, though clearly for the a small number it will.
(16 Sep 2023, 10:13 pm)Shrek I know this is a very small sample size, but I know eight people who regularly get the X1 between Washington and Newcastle. I sent them a message tonight asking if they know what the brand name for the x1 is. Only one or the eight knew.
I honestly don't think branding has a big impact for the majority, though clearly for the a small number it will.
(16 Sep 2023, 10:13 pm)Shrek I know this is a very small sample size, but I know eight people who regularly get the X1 between Washington and Newcastle. I sent them a message tonight asking if they know what the brand name for the x1 is. Only one or the eight knew.
I honestly don't think branding has a big impact for the majority, though clearly for the a small number it will.
