The ex-london vehicles they've just brought up would be fine, if they didn't have the barebones London interiors.
Whack some decent seats, USB ports and maybe a few tables in and they'd be grand

The b9s on cobalt on coast have had a much cushier life than say the TVT or ex 10 b9s - mileage is much less. The ones at consett must be clocking on 1.2m or more now and most of the TVT must be close to 1m. They should to all purposes be taking a backseat from frontline work now.

The 15/16 plate solo SRs are bloody awful, I’d be amazed if they last 10 years, much more cheaply built than the 12 plate ones which are now withdrawn. They eat diffs, retarders are abysmal, gearbox mapping is all about economy and Nothing else, as are the electrics, chassis problems were starting even a couple of years back, so who knows how bad they are now, oh and the window bonding constantly fails - awful design. But, the heating is good, shame the drafts from the drivers cab negates this (even from just a couple of years old).

(24 Sep 2023, 8:14 pm)streetdeckfan wrote The ex-london vehicles they've just brought up would be fine, if they didn't have the barebones London interiors.
Whack some decent seats, USB ports and maybe a few tables in and they'd be grand

This pretty much, I don't get the obsession with 'new' buses. I'd much rather have a B9 or DB300 over some of the newer crap. The problem is bar replacing a few seat covers, most of them haven't been touched in 10 year or in the case of the London ones, in full GoAhead London spec.

No average passenger could tell the age of the Arriva B7's as they had a decent refurb, similar to the ancient B7's which worked the 36 with Transdev because they had a full and decent upgrade inside.

I remember I posted a bus whcih was over 20 years old and it looked brand new. But I do think new tables, USB, Seats would be great however the age still has some draw backs especially with the state of GNE Engineer budget which is less proactive maintenance and more just wait till it breaks

(24 Sep 2023, 7:40 pm)Malarkey wrote The state of the fleet is a shambles and in some services are crying out of investment in new buses now but that looks highly unlikely with Go North East who appear now only willing to purchase new buses if it's supported by Government Grants such as ZEBRA, we might see something from Zebra 2 but that would mean potentially no new buses until 2024 and I don't think we can wait that long. 

I'd say order the following:

95 New Deckers - Angel 21 / Cobalt & Coast 307/309 & X-Lines Services

35 - Electric Buses (Angel 21 /Cobalt & Coast 307/309) under Zebra 2

60 - New Deckers (X-Lines)

41 (Streetdeck's), 7 (B5TL Gemini 3), 20 (E400MMC), 17 (B9's) free'd up to be allocated to other routes, 12 remaining (B5LH's) withdrawn, latter 2 by other cascades.

This would see the likes of the Tyne Valley 10's, Durham Diamond 16's, Crusader 27, Red Kite Ranger 47, City Rider 56 & upgraded with the B9's replacing older deckers in the fleet.

56 New Single Deckers - Connections 4, Prince Bishops 20, Go North East 5/24/26/49's/96, Drifer 60 & Tynedale Links 74/680 & 684

This would see off the 10/11 & 63 plate Versa's, 63 Plate Streetlites & 63 Plate Citaro which would all be withdrawn, services in Sunderland such as the 2/2A & 35 would be upgraded to 16 plate Streetlites.

9 Electric Mini Buses - Tynedale Links under Zebra 2 (Rural Services)

Solo SR's would be cascaded elsewhere within Go-Ahead.

It'll just not happen nowadays. Until GNE can return to profitability, then I can't see investment being anything other than the bare minimum. The money group are giving them go cover losses, which is some of what should be being spent on the fleet.

They're also competing with Manchester, who under franchising are very likely subject to penalties related to service performance and specification. Whereas they can run anything in the North East and get away with it.

Remember than even with ZEBRA, there's an outlay required by operators. The parent group may be more willing to support that, if it demonstrates good value for money.

(24 Sep 2023, 7:52 pm)Ambassador wrote It’s a nice sentiment but GNE don’t have a pot to proverbially piss in. Everything is done one the cheap from engineering to marketing to service.

We’ll probably see more go ahead group cascades. From a passenger pov they could look at taking care of the interior. Ripped seats, tables peeling with sharp edges, floors peeling etc etc minor things but easy to fix on a low budget. Stagecoach get longevity and value out of their fleet, GNE seem incapable of it.

Outside of zebra I don’t think we’ll see anything new until the new mayor starts dishing out the cash

I think you're right, and apart from the bare minimum, we'll not see anything spent until the inevitable announcement of franchising come May's election.

Plenty of time to give the begging bowl a good polish before then, though!

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(24 Sep 2023, 8:32 pm)xpm wrote The b9s on cobalt on coast have had a much cushier life than say the TVT or ex 10 b9s - mileage is much less. The ones at consett must be clocking on 1.2m or more now and most of the TVT must be close to 1m. They should to all purposes be taking a backseat from frontline work now.

The 15/16 plate solo SRs are bloody awful, I’d be amazed if they last 10 years, much more cheaply built than the 12 plate ones which are now withdrawn. They eat diffs, retarders are abysmal, gearbox mapping is all about economy and Nothing else, as are the electrics, chassis problems were starting even a couple of years back, so who knows how bad they are now, oh and the window bonding constantly fails - awful design. But, the heating is good, shame the drafts from the drivers cab negates this (even from just a couple of years old).

I have noticed there’s been a more London B9TLs or E400s on the Tyne Valley 10s recently rather than the branded ones as they’re my local service. Hopefully we’ll get an upgrade sooner than later, but don’t know where from though.


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(24 Sep 2023, 8:35 pm)Storx wrote This pretty much, I don't get the obsession with 'new' buses. I'd much rather have a B9 or DB300 over some of the newer crap. The problem is bar replacing a few seat covers, most of them haven't been touched in 10 year or in the case of the London ones, in full GoAhead London spec.

No average passenger could tell the age of the Arriva B7's as they had a decent refurb, similar to the ancient B7's which worked the 36 with Transdev because they had a full and decent upgrade inside.

You're saying that but even Deptford's B9s are starting to struggle at 10 years old in front line service. I love those buses but they either need a lot more maintenance spending on them or moving off front line services. I think what the interior looks like is much less important than the condition the oily bits are in, or 6086's near constant electrical issues.

(25 Sep 2023, 12:19 am)deanmachine wrote You're saying that but even Deptford's B9s are starting to struggle at 10 years old in front line service. I love those buses but they either need a lot more maintenance spending on them or moving off front line services. I think what the interior looks like is much less important than the condition the oily bits are in, or 6086's near constant electrical issues.

Yeah that's fair, must admit I can't see under the hood but surely this is more a maintenance issue more than anything. Obviously don't want to go making accusations but some of the stuff that comes out about 'botching' they'd arguably be better sorting that out than anything. 

No point buying new things if you won't look after them.

(24 Sep 2023, 11:00 pm)TEN 6083 wrote I have noticed there’s been a more London B9TLs or E400s on the Tyne Valley 10s recently rather than the branded ones as they’re my local service. Hopefully we’ll get an upgrade sooner than later, but don’t know where from though.


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I much prefer the ex London stock over the TVTs & Red Kite Rangers. The ex London stuff looks a lot smarter livery wise and tends to have working NSAs.

Putting ex-london and ex East Gateshead Loop 6160 & 6161 on the 701 was the worst thing they could've done.

The seats are appalling, the buses have broke down at least once a day. The drivers hate driving em and always complain to passengers when passengers complain to them about the state, smell, look of them.

They latest contract changes have been devastating on the reliability of the service. With 2 701s running together as they only get 5 mins layover. Sometimes it takes longer than that to get the students on at Clanny House, City Campus & St Peters. And with the buses breaking down all the time the queues have been huge at the campus'. With people getting the 700 (solo) to park lane and walking as its quicker. 

Also the branding on the solos needs changing as most students see the blue bus with City Campus, Clanny House and Hospital on the side and get on it to their dismay that they only can get to park lane.

Utterly disgraceful!

(26 Sep 2023, 5:36 pm)logidoodah wrote Putting ex-london and ex East Gateshead Loop 6160 & 6161 on the 701 was the worst thing they could've done.

The seats are appalling, the buses have broke down at least once a day. The drivers hate driving em and always complain to passengers when passengers complain to them about the state, smell, look of them.

They latest contract changes have been devastating on the reliability of the service. With 2 701s running together as they only get 5 mins layover. Sometimes it takes longer than that to get the students on at Clanny House, City Campus & St Peters. And with the buses breaking down all the time the queues have been huge at the campus'. With people getting the 700 (solo) to park lane and walking as its quicker. 

Also the branding on the solos needs changing as most students see the blue bus with City Campus, Clanny House and Hospital on the side and get on it to their dismay that they only can get to park lane.

Utterly disgraceful!

It's a 30 min journey max, perhaps the offspring of the Chinese communist party expect better? Walking would be a good idea for most of them anyway.

700 should have been kept on at every 15 mins and allow it to go to the hostpital aswell

6111, appears to have peeling vinyl upstairs at the front where the front window is

The Prince Bishops Vinyls are worse because they're put on individually, like small letters on top of the paintwork and have been there for about 7 year compared to the drifters which have the blue paint but then a massive vinyl sticker put down the whole bus not just with Drifter on it but with all the seaside branding as well.

(27 Sep 2023, 5:40 am)nova347 wrote The Prince Bishops Vinyls are worse because they're put on individually, like small letters on top of the paintwork and have been there for about 7 year compared to the drifters which have the blue paint but then a massive vinyl sticker put down the whole bus not just with Drifter on it but with all the seaside branding as well.

I meant inside, the vinyl they installed when they were refurbished

(26 Sep 2023, 5:58 pm)54APhotography wrote It's a 30 min journey max, perhaps the offspring of the Chinese communist party expect better? Walking would be a good idea for most of them anyway.

In regards to your disrespectful comments
- I agree walking to campus is better for health and the environment however what about those at St Peters Campus are they expected to walk? It takes at least 42 mins (not factoring in weather conditions or traffic lights etc...) 
- You would be slated on here if it was any other demographic but because it is students people seem to think they can just look down on them and expect them to walk when most can't choose where they live and especially not which campus they are on. Like I said if this was in another place and demographic people would be shouting about it.
-What about those with accessibility needs, or additional needs or people who don't like travelling alone. Are you expecting them to be walking 45+ mins (on a good day) because the buses that are provided are not adequate. 

Also just to make you aware 54A there are students from many countries not just china (actually asian student population is much more top heavy in Newcastle) in Sunderland the main international students come from african countires. So you're point totally goes out of the window...

(27 Sep 2023, 1:21 pm)54APhotography wrote Moan about them.of they were on the X10/X21, which they have been. They are ideal for urban use. The 93/94 they previously worked on is longer 

Defend the Chinese all you wish, they aren't from hard working families, they're all communist party children. Research the social fabric of the country.

I know this is the case for a lot of Arrivas and more of GNEs fleet as time goes on but this was the first time I have been on them. They're not fit for any route...And if they can't handle looping around Sunderland every 25 mins without breaking down then they should be scrapped imo. I think the E400's would have been better as at least they are dual door and can help with crowding...

I wasn't defending anyone but overall opposing your point everyone should walk because the buses aren't fit for service. 

Thanks for your real valuable input 

Has the maintainance budget run dry at riverside? Regularly seeing X10s doing some wonderful advertising sitting in a layby on the A19 with hazards on and a bunch of confused passengers on the other side of the barrier. Some of them aren't even X10 branded - it was a Crusader the other night.

(27 Sep 2023, 6:08 pm)F114TML wrote Has the maintainance budget run dry at riverside? Regularly seeing X10s doing some wonderful advertising sitting in a layby on the A19 with hazards on and a bunch of confused passengers on the other side of the barrier. Some of them aren't even X10 branded - it was a Crusader the other night. 

There was a 27 branded B9 on during the day earlier in the week. 
Saw a 21 branded decker on last week.
Guessing the E400s they're throwing on the 21 aren't cut out for the A19.

(27 Sep 2023, 1:38 pm)logidoodah wrote I know this is the case for a lot of Arrivas and more of GNEs fleet as time goes on but this was the first time I have been on them. They're not fit for any route...And if they can't handle looping around Sunderland every 25 mins without breaking down then they should be scrapped imo. I think the E400's would have been better as at least they are dual door and can help with crowding...

I wasn't defending anyone but overall opposing your point everyone should walk because the buses aren't fit for service. 

Thanks for your real valuable input 

When is a decker full on the 701? I haven't even seen an E200 full on the 701 in the past. The service avoids the town and the bus station, just like the E200s tripping between Clanny House and St. Peter's.

If anything the use of deckers is overkill given the loading JH reported for the service. Pretty sure despite being 11 years old these B9's are fit for short hop work, it's what they have proven all over the world.

(28 Sep 2023, 7:31 am)54APhotography wrote When is a decker full on the 701? I haven't even seen an E200 full on the 701 in the past. The service avoids the town and the bus station, just like the E200s tripping between Clanny House and St. Peter's.

If anything the use of deckers is overkill given the loading JH reported for the service. Pretty sure despite being 11 years old these B9's are fit for short hop work, it's what they have proven all over the world.

Plenty of times I've seen a full standing load on the E200s.

Loadings on the 700/701 varied throughout the day. Some trips were nearly empty and others were rammed (near lunch time for example). Don't think I ever picked up anyone at the Glass Centre on the 702 though.

I remember having one of the hybrid Solos and it being so heavy it kept grounding (great lean going round bends).

The 700 also picked up non students from Clanny House and took them to the City Centre.

The Student Union did (maybe still do) have a minibus service for students too.

Broken down GNE bus parked near Joicey Road / Durham Road, Low Fell. No lights not even hazards.

Motorists heading North have to drive around it against oncoming traffic.

An accident just waiting to happen.

Charles

(28 Sep 2023, 7:07 pm)Charles41 wrote Broken down GNE bus parked near Joicey Road / Durham Road, Low Fell. No lights not even hazards.

Motorists heading North have to drive around it against oncoming traffic.

An accident just waiting to happen.

Charles

Is that still there? The versa? It was there before 5pm but had hazards on. 

There was a knackered X10 blocking the lane towards the High Level Bridge too

That Crusader on the A19 just before A690 turn off heading to Middlesbrough, i passed it with its hazards on there was an ambulance behind it.

(28 Sep 2023, 7:10 pm)Ambassador wrote Is that still there? The versa? It was there before 5pm but had hazards on. 

There was a knackered X10 blocking the lane towards the High Level Bridge too

Aye still there, could not see any staff in attendance either.

Charles

(27 Sep 2023, 6:42 pm)Andreos1 wrote Guessing the E400s they're throwing on the 21 aren't cut out for the A19.

Is it any wonder when they are only 4x for the X10 and no dedicated spares? Arriva's Classic E400s at Ashington (14/64/15 plates) have had a way harder stretch given their age before 7563-81 replaced them.

A re-work of the Consett rotas & interworking patterns (X30/X31 split from the X45) would solve the issue  and allow a single fleet of E400MMC at Riverside covering both the X10 & X21.

Totally get that it would be 'inefficient' to have remote reliefs at Stanley, but curtailing the 6 at Stanley (maybe re-interworking with the 12) and extending the X31 to Lanchester in place would level the driving hours out to compensate for the remote reliefs. Not forgetting reducing the cost and occurance of recoveries from as far as the Wear Valley and Teesside.

(28 Sep 2023, 8:52 pm)L469 YVK wrote Is it any wonder when they are only 4x for the X10 and no dedicated spares? Arriva's Classic E400s at Ashington (14/64/15 plates) have had a way harder stretch given their age before 7563-81 replaced them.

A re-work of the Consett rotas & interworking patterns (X30/X31 split from the X45) would solve the issue  and allow a single fleet of E400MMC at Riverside covering both the X10 & X21.

Totally get that it would be 'inefficient' to have remote reliefs at Stanley, but curtailing the 6 at Stanley (maybe re-interworking with the 12) and extending the X31 to Lanchester in place would level the driving hours out to compensate for the remote reliefs. Not forgetting reducing the cost and occurance of recoveries from as far as the Wear Valley and Teesside.

6377 is the spare vehicle for the X10, with the X10 Go North East still hasn't learned this lesson and they've been rolling with "this plan will work" for 17 years now dating back to when the B7 Geminis were purchased.

(27 Sep 2023, 1:21 pm)54APhotography wrote Moan about them.of they were on the X10/X21, which they have been. They are ideal for urban use. The 93/94 they previously worked on is longer 

Defend the Chinese all you wish, they aren't from hard working families, they're all communist party children. Research the social fabric of the country.

Not trying to take this thread off-topic anymore, but I’m of Chinese ethnicity, born & bred in Sunderland and my family & I worked very hard to get to where we are today. I’m now studying at a top London uni. Perhaps best not to tarnish all Asians with the same brush.

Back on topic - I wonder if it’s just a GNE maintenance issue. They weren’t that troublesome on the Loops…

(28 Sep 2023, 10:00 pm)Adtrainsam wrote Not trying to take this thread off-topic anymore, but I’m of Chinese ethnicity, born & bred in Sunderland and my family & I worked very hard to get to where we are today. I’m now studying at a top London uni. Perhaps best not to tarnish all Asians with the same brush.

Back on topic - I wonder if it’s just a GNE maintenance issue. They weren’t that troublesome on the Loops…

It's not exactly like Deptford's engineers are unfamiliar with B9s.