(26 Sep 2023, 7:36 am)Adrian wrote If they didn't, someone would probably be on here complaining that they refused to carry passengers who only had card as a means of payment.

I'm not sure what else they could do in this scenario. It's not ideal, as you either leave people behind and spend time dealing with complaints, take the bus out of service and still deal with complaints, or carry them for free and get them moving to their destination.

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I agree some of what your saying but you talking 24 quid hes not taking in just 15 minutes..... and not even asking if they have cash?  On stagecoach inst there a sign to say if the card machine inst working you need to find another means of payment?  I always car a couple of quid for this exact issue.

(26 Sep 2023, 7:42 am)Rob44 wrote I agree some of what your saying but you talking 24 quid hes not taking in just 15 minutes..... and not even asking if they have cash?  On stagecoach inst there a sign to say if the card machine inst working you need to find another means of payment?  I always car a couple of quid for this exact issue.

Most people don't, I'd suspect. I could count on one hand the amount of times I've used a cash point in the last couple of years.

Didn't know about Stagecoach having a sign, but that's a poor show on their part. It's not like a shop, where you can come back later if their payment terminal isn't working, you're potentially leaving someone stood waiting up to an hour or more with a bus.

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It's a tough one. Ideally you should ask going by the guidelines but if they say no, then good customer service would be to let them travel anyway so they have a positive experience rather than leave them for the next bus which could have a similar issue.

However, drivers aren't supposed to put themselves in danger and if you tell someone they can't travel due to a ticket machine fault, their reaction could turn a situation with a simple outcome into something more serious.

Surely the free travel should be incentive enough for the company to get the ticket machine changed over?

Slightly unrelated note, what happened to revenue inspection teams? Did these die out with Covid or is it a cost cutting exercise?

This happens pretty regularly on the Angel - they normally swap the ticket machine at Gateshead heading into town but the drivers without question just to tell people to get on. Even when people have offered cash they wave them on

it's one of the better customer service examples (actually the only one) from GNE

(26 Sep 2023, 10:41 am)Ambassador wrote This happens pretty regularly on the Angel - they normally swap the ticket machine at Gateshead heading into town but the drivers without question just to tell people to get on. Even when people have offered cash they wave them on

it's one of the better customer service examples (actually the only one) from GNE

maybe for the person getting on for nowt.  If the bus was in an accident would they be insured with not having a valid ticket btw??

I think the Stagecoach sign is more aimed at people that get on, attempt to use their card when they have zero funds available and it of course fails.

I have seen this many times in Teesside and miraculously they find the cash or get a friend to pay either cash or card.

Yup. Here is that sign (or at least a version of it), found in most SC buses

(26 Sep 2023, 10:41 am)Ambassador wrote This happens pretty regularly on the Angel - they normally swap the ticket machine at Gateshead heading into town but the drivers without question just to tell people to get on. Even when people have offered cash they wave them on

it's one of the better customer service examples (actually the only one) from GNE

Yeah, I travelled from Tindale to Newcastle for free on the X21 because the card reader wasn't working, I had the £2 for the fare in my had, the driver saw and said "if you're paying by card the reader isn't working so I can't charge you"

(27 Sep 2023, 8:18 am)F114TML wrote Yup. Here is that sign (or at least a version of it), found in most SC buses

I read that as you contactless payment hasn't worked you must provide alternative payment

(27 Sep 2023, 4:51 pm)Unber43 wrote I read that as you contactless payment hasn't worked you must provide alternative payment

Correct. We give 3 or 4 chances, if the card declines each time, then you need to pay by alternative means (purchase a ticket on the app, or put some money on the desk). The policy isn't strictly enforced at all times (last buses, for example), or by all drivers - we're told to use common sense etc. Because of this you get some really amusing ones who tell you it happens every time and still hope to get a free ride...

(27 Sep 2023, 6:05 pm)F114TML wrote Correct. We give 3 or 4 chances, if the card declines each time, then you need to pay by alternative means (purchase a ticket on the app, or put some money on the desk). The policy isn't strictly enforced at all times (last buses, for example), or by all drivers - we're told to use common sense etc. Because of this you get some really amusing ones who tell you it happens every time and still hope to get a free ride...

I take it this is for individual failed payments rather than say an issue with the ticket machine? As was what Rob reported initially. If there's a ticket machine issue, it's going to be more hassle than it's worth, trying to tell people they'll have to wait for the next one. Bus would end up massively delayed from arguing the toss at every other stop!

I think for individual failed payments, giving 3 or 4 chances is generous. Most shops would try a second time, then ask you to try a second card.

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(27 Sep 2023, 9:54 pm)Adrian wrote I take it this is for individual failed payments  rather than say an issue with the ticket machine? As was what Rob reported initially. If there's a ticket machine issue, it's going to be more hassle than it's worth, trying to tell people they'll have to wait for the next one. Bus would end up massively delayed from arguing the toss at every other stop!

I think for individual failed payments, giving 3 or 4 chances is generous. Most shops would try a second time, then ask you to try a second card.

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Yeah that is individually. I don't think there is a policy on broken ETMs but I just wave everyone on, and get it changed at the earliest opportunity (easy for our routes given they're relatively short)

Having seen that Stagecoach and Arriva are offering pretty much a LA7 wide acceptance of GNE tickets during the strike action, I found it laughable how they're able to deliver it seemingly at the drop of a hat, yet we've been waiting months and months now for this TNE Day Ticket to be released.

It's not just that, though. This is something, especially in County Durham, that has been requested for years. It's always been met with excuses, competition commission won't like it, etc. But what do you know? Delivered within less than a fortnight!

Maybe this highlights once again, that it's protecting one's own interests at the expense of the customers.

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(29 Sep 2023, 5:31 pm)Adrian wrote Having seen that Stagecoach and Arriva are offering pretty much a LA7 wide acceptance of GNE tickets during the strike action, I found it laughable how they're able to deliver it seemingly at the drop of a hat, yet we've been waiting months and months now for this TNE Day Ticket to be released.

It's not just that, though. This is something, especially in County Durham, that has been requested for years. It's always been met with excuses, competition commission won't like it, etc. But what do you know? Delivered within less than a fortnight!

Maybe this highlights once again, that it's protecting one's own interests at the expense of the customers.

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The Arriva ones are interesting as it doesn't cover Peterlee to Sunderland for some reason.

I don't know what Arriva / Stagecoach's intentions are but it'll be interesting to see if GNE are paying them to accept them or whether both are using it as an opportunity to poach some customers. The accepting corridors of both, in particular, seem to be very protecting of wiping out all of the GNE North Tyneside routes as they're all pretty much covered now by either the Metro or bus via some route.

(29 Sep 2023, 6:31 pm)Storx wrote The Arriva ones are interesting as it doesn't cover Peterlee to Sunderland for some reason.

I don't know what Arriva / Stagecoach's intentions are but it'll be interesting to see if GNE are paying them to accept them or whether both are using it as an opportunity to poach some customers. The accepting corridors of both, in particular, seem to be very protecting of wiping out all of the GNE North Tyneside routes as they're all pretty much covered now by either the Metro or bus via some route.

I doubt GNE are paying. I’d say it’s commercial opportunism and I welcome it, we don’t see enough of it!

(30 Sep 2023, 12:00 am)Ambassador wrote I doubt GNE are paying. I’d say it’s commercial opportunism and I welcome it, we don’t see enough of it!

Aye that's my thoughts aswell, to be fair. Was just protecting myself from someone coming along and saying GNE are paying for it and it's a load of shite

(29 Sep 2023, 5:31 pm)Adrian wrote Having seen that Stagecoach and Arriva are offering pretty much a LA7 wide acceptance of GNE tickets during the strike action, I found it laughable how they're able to deliver it seemingly at the drop of a hat, yet we've been waiting months and months now for this TNE Day Ticket to be released.

It's not just that, though. This is something, especially in County Durham, that has been requested for years. It's always been met with excuses, competition commission won't like it, etc. But what do you know? Delivered within less than a fortnight!

Maybe this highlights once again, that it's protecting one's own interests at the expense of the customers.

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They aren't actually doing anything though, except accepting GNE season tickets as a 'flash pass'. Its literally something they can do with 10 minutes notice.

Also, the issue with the new TNE day ticket (or lack of) is actually not the fault of the operators, ironically. Its the politics and bureaucracy holding it up (shock horror).
A Bus Service Improvement Plan funded scheme, but politicians and leaders insist that Metro needs to be part of it. DfT refuse BSIP funding to go to Metro, so stalemate occurs. The operators are ready and the start date has been pushed back three times now due to this Metro issue.

(30 Sep 2023, 8:19 pm)RobinHood wrote They aren't actually doing anything though, except accepting GNE season tickets as a 'flash pass'. Its literally something they can do with 10 minutes notice.

Also, the issue with the new TNE day ticket (or lack of) is actually not the fault of the operators, ironically. Its the politics and bureaucracy holding it up (shock horror).
A Bus Service Improvement Plan funded scheme, but politicians and leaders insist that Metro needs to be part of it. DfT refuse BSIP funding to go to Metro, so stalemate occurs. The operators are ready and the start date has been pushed back three times now due to this Metro issue.

My point is that it's interesting how quick it can be done, if it's in the operators' interests to do so.

Regarding the TNE day ticket, whilst there's been some delay due to the democratic process, it's not entirely accurate to state it's all on TNE. From the reports and minutes I've read, it appears that the scheme reimbursement was proposed to a subsequent meeting, to be more favourable towards the operators? I'd written about it in the BSIP thread at the time.

(27 Sep 2023, 7:26 am)RM2186 wrote I think the Stagecoach sign is more aimed at people that get on, attempt to use their card when they have zero funds available and it of course fails.

I have seen this many times in Teesside and miraculously they find the cash or get a friend to pay either cash or card.

Contactless declines mainly because it's been used as contactless for a number of times and you haven't used the PIN number for quite a while. This is one of many reasons. The company don't collect the payment until the end of the day (roughly just after midnight) so it's not declined because of funds in your bank.

The Vix machines don't even look at funds. It's the bank that rejects it I believe.

(10 Oct 2023, 3:28 pm)Retro Nero wrote Contactless declines mainly because it's been used as contactless for a number of times and you haven't used the PIN number for quite a while. This is one of many reasons. The company don't collect the payment until the end of the day (roughly just after midnight) so it's not declined because of funds in your bank.

Ticketer machines #### Go North East, Arriva , & Gateshead Central

I "lost" my Halifax card. Canceled it on the appt . The I found it but forgot to send activate it. Worked fine to buy a ticket to town on 28. Got message hours later so reactivated it and ticket price came out later

(10 Oct 2023, 3:28 pm)Retro Nero wrote Contactless declines mainly because it's been used as contactless for a number of times and you haven't used the PIN number for quite a while. This is one of many reasons. The company don't collect the payment until the end of the day (roughly just after midnight) so it's not declined because of funds in your bank.

Used contactless at a Northern Rail ticket machine a few weeks back. Was rushing and picked the first card I had. 
Didn't realise it was the one without any funds in, as opposed to the one that did have funds in. 

The machine accepted the card (was only a £4 odd Duo fare) and minutes later, I got my sms from the bank to let me know I'd gone over my overdraft limit.

I wondered at the time, whether travel is actually allowed in those situations, rather than simply declining the card and therefore travel.

(30 Sep 2023, 9:21 pm)Adrian wrote My point is that it's interesting how quick it can be done, if it's in the operators' interests to do so.

Regarding the TNE day ticket, whilst there's been some delay due to the democratic process, it's not entirely accurate to state it's all on TNE. From the reports and minutes I've read, it appears that the scheme reimbursement was proposed to a subsequent meeting, to be more favourable towards the operators? I'd written about it in the BSIP thread at the time.

Sorry, the delay is all on TNE!!

It's a TNE ticket scheme with TNE re-imbursing operators. 
Just needs TNE to reach agreement on reimbursement with the bus operators - and Metro, which is where the complication with introducing a Bus Service Improvement Plan ticket occurs, and is why it's been delayed again.

(10 Oct 2023, 9:33 pm)busmanT wrote Sorry, the delay is all on TNE!!

It's a TNE ticket scheme with TNE re-imbursing operators. 
Just needs TNE to reach agreement on reimbursement with the bus operators - and Metro, which is where the complication with introducing a Bus Service Improvement Plan ticket occurs, and is why it's been delayed again.

You’re saying like it’s silly that they want the ticket to be multi modal, but honestly I think it would be silly to introduce a bus only ticket. Ok, you can have a bus only multi operator ticket but if you live on South Shields Town Centre you have to get the 27 rather than the metro if you want the benefits of it. Once again operators kicking up a stink because they have to share a bit of a pot of money rather than trying to get people to use public transport as a whole.

(10 Oct 2023, 5:59 pm)F114TML wrote The Vix machines don't even look at funds. It's the bank that rejects it I believe.

Our machines block cards for 45 days if a journey has been made and there hasn't been sufficient funds when Stagecoach go to collect the money from the passenger's bank later on. After 3 attempts (not sure if it's three tries at the same time, or three separate occasions) the card will be permanently blocked.

Passengers have to be reminded to contact Stagecoach Customer Services to get it unblocked in both instances.

Ask them to pay by cash, or go to an ATM then pay cash on the next bus, usually if they refuse those it's offer them a B175, which they don't seem to like...

Heard the "I've got money on there", "it does this all the time" and the "my bank said you need to update your machine" (even if everyone else's card from the same bank worked!) nonsense too many times.

(11 Oct 2023, 9:15 am)omnicity4659 wrote Our machines block cards for 45 days if a journey has been made and there hasn't been sufficient funds when Stagecoach go to collect the money from the passenger's bank later on. After 3 attempts (not sure if it's three tries at the same time, or three separate occasions) the card will be permanently blocked.

Passengers have to be reminded to contact Stagecoach Customer Services to get it unblocked in both instances.

Ask them to pay by cash, or go to an ATM then pay cash on the next bus, usually if they refuse those it's offer them a B175, which they don't seem to like...

Heard the "I've got money on there", "it does this all the time" and the "my bank said you need to update your machine" (even if everyone else's card from the same bank worked!) nonsense too many times.

I once had my card blocked on Arriva's Tap on Tap off because it had insufficient funds, I think it showed something like 'banned card' on the reader or something like that. Funnily enough the driver never stopped me when I tapped on!

I'm fairly sure the card worked again the next day, or at least within the week

What's a B175?

(11 Oct 2023, 12:11 pm)idiot wrote What's a B175?

It's a form the passenger has to fill in telling the company their name and address. It's a declaration saying they will pay the fare to the company within 7 days.

Is a B175 a stagecoach only thing?