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RE: Redcar depot
(01 Sep 2023, 8:55 am)Storx wrote Is it even that much of a money maker though? I'd be surprised if it's anywhere near the top of the list. Yes it gets good loads but it's the same passengers for over an hour, some two hours and outside the Summer isn't particularly busy at all.

Let's say each bus averaged 60 PAX per journey (which it probably roughly is) at £7 it's only £420 over 2 hours and the Diesel costs must be through the roof bombing across the Moors. It's the same with the X9/X10 with GNE (which had their frequency cut).

Compared to say the X21 at Ashington which might have 10 PAX from Newbiggin to Ashington, 10 to Bedlington, 30 through to Newcastle, 15 in between somewhere and can do 2 trips in the same time roughly. That's 130 PAX in the same at roughly lets say £4.50 it's £585 and the Diesel costs won't be anywhere near as high.


Slightly off topic but relevant to long distance journeys, I wonder how much more money Arriva in this instance make from the government by selling £2 fares from Middlesbrough to Scarborough to those only travelling to Guisborough or Whitby?
Lots of other examples too, I been issued a ticket to the end of the route lots of times when I'm not going that far. It's the same £2 cost, and easy for the drivers to issue - but presumably the bus company charges the extra to the government?

Not sure how it works exactly, someone can probably enlighten me, but it does seem like its an easy way for the bus companies to make extra cash.
RE: Redcar depot
(01 Sep 2023, 1:35 pm)tvd wrote Slightly off topic but relevant to long distance journeys, I wonder how much more money Arriva in this instance make from the government by selling £2 fares from Middlesbrough to Scarborough to those only travelling to Guisborough or Whitby?
Lots of other examples too, I been issued a ticket to the end of the route lots of times when I'm not going that far.  It's the same £2 cost, and easy for the drivers to issue - but presumably the bus company charges the extra to the government?

Not sure how it works exactly, someone can probably enlighten me, but it does seem like its an easy way for the bus companies to make extra cash.

It doesn't work like that unfortunately, would be very simple if it was, but appreciating that it would clearly leave the door open for manipulation.

Arriva, along with other major operators, actually agree a fixed reimbursement value with the government for each 'period' of £2 fare scheme (each period is around 3-4 months long, which is why operators haven't committed to the £2.50 scheme yet even though the government is shouting about it, as they haven't agreed reimbursement for that new scheme period yet).

The calculation for reimbursement is based on usage from a chosen period of time weighted by the scheduled mileage within that period. Basically means that intentional issuing of longer distance journeys makes no difference to the reimbursement and any growth in that time cannot be considered in the calculation until the next scheme period.
RE: Redcar depot
(01 Sep 2023, 5:57 pm)RobinHood wrote It doesn't work like that unfortunately, would be very simple if it was, but appreciating that it would clearly leave the door open for manipulation.

Arriva, along with other major operators, actually agree a fixed reimbursement value with the government for each 'period' of £2 fare scheme (each period is around 3-4 months long, which is why operators haven't committed to the £2.50 scheme yet even though the government is shouting about it, as they haven't agreed reimbursement for that new scheme period yet).

The calculation for reimbursement is based on usage from a chosen period of time weighted by the scheduled mileage within that period. Basically means that intentional issuing of longer distance journeys makes no difference to the reimbursement and any growth in that time cannot be considered in the calculation until the next scheme period.

Ah I see, interesting, thanks!
Redcar depot
(01 Sep 2023, 8:55 am)Storx wrote Is it even that much of a money maker though? I'd be surprised if it's anywhere near the top of the list. Yes it gets good loads but it's the same passengers for over an hour, some two hours and outside the Summer isn't particularly busy at all.

Let's say each bus averaged 60 PAX per journey (which it probably roughly is) at £7 it's only £420 over 2 hours and the Diesel costs must be through the roof bombing across the Moors. It's the same with the X9/X10 with GNE (which had their frequency cut).

Compared to say the X21 at Ashington which might have 10 PAX from Newbiggin to Ashington, 10 to Bedlington, 30 through to Newcastle, 15 in between somewhere and can do 2 trips in the same time roughly. That's 130 PAX in the same at roughly lets say £4.50 it's £585 and the Diesel costs won't be anywhere near as high.


This is only anecdotal evidence but I’ve got several ex Redcar/Whitby drivers and they tell me it’s not uncommon to do even Whitby-Scarborough & back in the summer and easily take over a grand just on that. Obviously that was before the £2 cap… but it does very well in the summer season!
I’d reckon it makes a small loss in the winter even with the PVR cut in half almost (5 v 9).


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(01 Sep 2023, 12:43 pm)Ryland wrote Do we know which bus has Redcar spare ticket machine in


Currently 7404


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RE: Redcar depot
(01 Sep 2023, 9:24 pm)tyresmoke wrote This is only anecdotal evidence but I’ve got several ex Redcar/Whitby drivers and they tell me it’s not uncommon to do even Whitby-Scarborough & back in the summer and easily take over a grand just on that. Obviously that was before the £2 cap… but it does very well in the summer season!
I’d reckon it makes a small loss in the winter even with the PVR cut in half almost (5 v 9).

Aye must admit, had a feeling that the Whitby to Scarborough bit might have been the more profitable part as it's the only bus around there. I don't know if I'm making this up but wasn't that section every 20 minutes a few year back?
Redcar depot
(02 Sep 2023, 6:46 pm)Storx wrote Aye must admit, had a feeling that the Whitby to Scarborough bit might have been the more profitable part as it's the only bus around there. I don't know if I'm making this up but wasn't that section every 20 minutes a few year back?


Yes I think it did, though I can’t remember it lasting more than one summer season?
The Middlesbrough to Whitby section is more peaky with a substantial flow in the morning towards the coast and back again in the evening of course. Otherwise it’s steady away all day without pulling up any trees.
I think the current timetable suits it well… if it was reliably provided it would be even better!


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RE: Redcar depot
(02 Sep 2023, 9:13 pm)tyresmoke wrote Yes I think it did, though I can’t remember it lasting more than one summer season?
The Middlesbrough to Whitby section is more peaky with a substantial flow in the morning towards the coast and back again in the evening of course. Otherwise it’s steady away all day without pulling up any trees.
I think the current timetable suits it well… if it was reliably provided it would be even better!


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Yeah I have a feeling it was only one season and wasn't too long ago either.

Obviously it can't happen because of our deregulated network but I always think it's a shame there isn't a proper 'Yorkshire Coast' bus route which ran right down Hornsea right upto to Whitby merging the X93/X94 shorts, 12/13 and 130 or some variation of them. It would be quite popular imo as it's all a touristy area but it's all split up currently and a bit disjointed.
RE: Redcar depot
Random question... well more of a theory
1534 is now working at Redcar.
Currently only being allocated to the X4 and done a few stints on the x93.
Is this the plan to try and get it off the road quicker by putting it into the more hilly routes
RE: Redcar depot
(18 Sep 2023, 8:07 pm)Ryland wrote Random question... well more of a theory
1534 is now working at Redcar.
Currently only being allocated to the X4 and done a few stints on the x93.
Is this the plan to try and get it off the road quicker by putting it into the more hilly routes

if the x3 64.64A GETS IT THE X3 WILL KILL IT 

64.64a will need shields around windscreen from bricks been lob at it 


its the x3.64.64a thats  killings things atm
RE: Redcar depot
(18 Sep 2023, 8:07 pm)Ryland wrote Random question... well more of a theory
1534 is now working at Redcar.
Currently only being allocated to the X4 and done a few stints on the x93.
Is this the plan to try and get it off the road quicker by putting it into the more hilly routes

Seen this out and about a few times and it seemed to be struggling for power on flat sections.

Havent had a chance to see how it's keeping up with the timetable unfortunately.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
RE: Redcar depot
All the axl 400 7424/5/6 were on the 62 today. I'm guessing this is going to be there home for the winter timetable? Surely these don't have long left at Redcar considering Durham has withdrawn majority of these.

4719 are we looking to see if this enters service again.

With the numbers dropping in the timetable change are we to see some avenues being withdrawn
RE: Redcar depot
(26 Sep 2023, 9:18 pm)Ryland wrote All the axl 400 7424/5/6 were on the 62 today. I'm guessing this is going to be there home for the winter timetable? Surely these don't have long left at Redcar considering Durham has withdrawn majority of these.

4719 are we looking to see if this enters service again.

With the numbers dropping in the timetable change are we to see some avenues being withdrawn

7610 7424 25 26 W here on today no singles
RE: Redcar depot
Why is there 5 63's in Redcar

4710 - 4 Mins Late
4726 - 44 Mins late
4713 - 19 Mins late
1560 - 26 Mins Late
4711 - 6 Mins Late

Is this due to lack of layover considering there are 12 buses tracking?
Redcar depot
(02 Oct 2023, 1:14 pm)Unber43 wrote Why is there 5 63's in Redcar

4710 - 4 Mins Late
4726 - 44 Mins late
4713 - 19 Mins late
1560 - 26 Mins Late
4711 - 6 Mins Late

Is this due to lack of layover considering there are 12 buses tracking?


If there is 12 tracking that means there is one missing which is about normal. Though 4720 hasn’t been tracking recently so that could have been on there! Once you get late on 63s it’s almost impossible to get it back so they end up dropping out which then knocks the one behind it, they get late and then it just snowballs across the whole day…

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RE: Redcar depot
(02 Oct 2023, 9:30 pm)tyresmoke wrote If there is 12 tracking that means there is one missing which is about normal. Though 4720 hasn’t been tracking recently so that could have been on there! Once you get late on 63s it’s almost impossible to get it back so they end up dropping out which then knocks the one behind it, they get late and then it just snowballs across the whole day…
Quick look on the timetable it seems like theyve only got 5 mins which is really nothing as by the time they've swapped drivers (3-4 mins), everyone got off, picked people up youre 3-4 mins late already and that is assuming youve pulled in on time whcih never happens.
RE: Redcar depot
(14 Oct 2023, 12:04 pm)Ryland wrote 7424 is tracking on the 63. Do we know if this is true or is it another vehicle

It won't be true, it will be another vehicle.

There is a low bridge on 63 route, which (even if the bus may fit with inches to spare), they simply wouldn't allocate a decker to it.
RE: Redcar depot
(15 Oct 2023, 8:38 pm)RobinHood wrote In the current world of health, safety and risk, the simple option to not allocate double deckers even if they might fit, is the instruction nowadays.

Feel as though 7609/10 might fit better
Redcar depot
(15 Oct 2023, 8:55 pm)Ryland wrote Feel as though 7609/10 might fit better


They’d be absolutely fine on the 63, but they won’t allocate them presumably because of the risk of drivers taking other DDs.

‘7424’ is either 4700 or 4702 I believe.


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RE: Redcar depot
One of the Temsas out of action on the 81 this morning, with some faulty doors. Waiting for a bus to be taken off the 63 to replace it.

Even with PVR reductions, it never seems to get any better at Redcar does it!
RE: Redcar depot
(23 Oct 2023, 11:03 am)tvd wrote One of the Temsas out of action on the 81 this morning, with some faulty doors.  Waiting for a bus to be taken off the 63 to replace it.

Even with PVR reductions, it never seems to get any better at Redcar does it!


just seen Arriva Redcar maintaince team on the a171 moor road 
RE: Redcar depot
(23 Oct 2023, 5:55 pm)Ryland wrote Do we know of which buses are due to come off with the winter over reduction

7424, 7425, 7426, 7609, 7610 and a Pulsar (TBC).

Redcar also reduced by 2 this weekend, which should have seen two Pulsars go to Durham. I don't know what (if anything) has moved yet.
RE: Redcar depot
(23 Oct 2023, 6:14 pm)RobinHood wrote 7424, 7425, 7426, 7609, 7610 and a Pulsar (TBC).

Redcar also reduced by 2 this weekend, which should have seen two Pulsars go to Durham. I don't know what (if anything) has moved yet.
might be streetlites you u dont know

(23 Oct 2023, 5:55 pm)Ryland wrote Do we know of which buses are due to come off with the winter over reduction

7424.26 more likely