Proposed changes to Arriva Services 35 and X21 within Newbiggin & Woodhorn
with effect from Sunday 28th January 2024


What are we proposing to do and why?

Over recent months, the reliability and punctuality of Services 35, X21 and X22 have seen decline in the face of increasing levels of traffic congestion within the region. Arriva, as the operator of these services have an obligation to ensure that we provide a service that is as reliable and punctual as possible.

With this in mind, we've been analysing passenger data along with punctuality and reliability data with a view of understanding what needs to be done to improve the situation. The summary of this is that we need to increase scheduled journey time, particularly on Services X21 and X22 into Newcastle, however we also need to ensure that we do this in a sustainable way.

Our proposal is to revise the way in which Services 35 and X21 operate around Newbiggin & Woodhorn. There will be no change to service frequency, buses will still run up to every 20 minutes during Mon-Fri daytimes, up to every 30 minutes on Saturdays and hourly on evenings and Sundays, however the routes in which they may operate is subject to change.

This survey will briefly explain the plans and allow you to feedback some comments at the end. It shouldn't take any more than a few minutes to complete.

If this proposal progresses, the proposed start date would be Sunday 28th January 2024.

What will change on Service 35?

Service 35 will continue to operate between Morpeth, Ashington, Newbiggin and Woodhorn as it does now, up to every 20 minutes during Monday to Friday daytimes, up to every 30 minutes during Saturday daytimes and hourly on evenings and Sundays.

However, we're proposing to revise the route in which the service operates within Newbiggin and Woodhorn into a one-way loop.

This revised Service 35 route would therefore commence its journey towards Morpeth from Woodhorn Crossroads, then via Woodlea and Seacrest Road as normal. From Seacrest Road and Woodlea, buses would then turn left as normal, but would additionally serve Cresswell Arms (currently not served by Service 35). From Cresswell Arms, buses would then head along Newbiggin Front Street and Sandy Bay Holiday Park, resuming the normal route at North Seaton Demesme towards Ashington and Morpeth.

What does this mean?

What this means is that all Service 35 journeys will operate in a one-way clockwise loop of Woodhorn & Newbiggin, but will additionally serve Cresswell Arms as an improvement over current service, providing more journey opportunities, and permitting reallocation of the time saved by only operating one-way, into the service schedule to improve punctuality.

Service X21 is proposed to operate via the exact opposite of this route within Newbiggin & Woodhorn, providing local short hop journey opportunities within the area (i.e. if you are only travelling between Woodhorn and Cresswell Arms, you would catch Service 35 towards Cresswell Arms, but return on Service X21 in this proposal).

What will change on Service X21?

Service X21 will continue to operate between Newcastle, Bedlington, Ashington and Newbiggin as it does now, up to every 20 minutes during Monday to Friday daytimes, up to every 30 minutes during Saturday daytimes and hourly on evenings and Sundays.

However, we're proposing to revise the route in which the service operates within Newbiggin into a one-way loop and additionally serving Woodhorn too.

This revised Service X21 route would therefore commence its journey towards Newcastle from Newbiggin West End, Spital Road and operate via Newbiggin Front Street to Cresswell Arms. From Cresswell Arms, buses would then operate via Woodhorn Road and Woodlea to serve Seacrest Road as they do now. From Seacrest Road and Woodlea however, buses would then turn right and continue north to Woodhorn, before turning left onto the A197 and resuming normal route towards Newcastle from Wansbeck Hospital (meaning they wont go back to Cresswell Arms or Spital Road).

What does this mean?

What this means is that all Service X21 journeys will operate in a one-way anticlockwise loop of Newbiggin & Woodhorn, but will serve both Cresswell Arms and Seacrest Road as it does now, whilst additionally serving Woodhorn and providing more journey opportunities, and permitting reallocation of the time saved by only operating one-way, into the service schedule to improve punctuality.

Existing passengers of Service X21 would therefore need to board the service towards Newcastle on the northbound side of the road between Spital Road and Cresswell Arms.

Service 35 is proposed to operate via the exact opposite of this route within Woodhorn & Newbiggin, providing local short hop journey opportunities within the area (i.e. if you are only travelling between Cresswell Arms and Woodhorn, you would catch Service X21 towards Woodhorn, but return on Service 35 in this proposal).

What else do I need to be aware of?

Below is a map of the proposed route options within the area, as described on the previous pages. This should hopefully help visualise and understand what is being proposed.

From an operational point of view, customers should be aware that within this proposal, Services 35 and X21 will 'interwork' or simply change number within Newbiggin & Woodhorn.

What this means is that passengers arriving on a Service X21 from Newcastle or Ashington for example, will see their bus turn left onto the Spine Road after Wansbeck Hospital and then turn right at Woodhorn Crossroads. The driver will then change the service number on the front of the bus to Service 35, but passengers who wish to alight anywhere within Newbiggin area can stay on the bus until it reaches their stop.

Conversely, passengers arriving on a Service 35 from Morpeth or Ashington will see their bus continue into Newbiggin as normal, but the driver will change the service number on the front of the bus to Service X21. However, as with the case above, passengers who intend to alight anywhere within Newbiggin or Woodhorn can remain on the bus until it reaches their stop.

This arrangement will be in place on every journey, so to remove any additional complication.

TLDR - It doesn't matter where within Newbiggin or Woodhorn that you got on at, the bus you come back on will take you back to that same location.

Service X22

As a by-product of this change, Service X22 will see a revised timetable on all days, however will continue to operate between Ashington and Newcastle via the same route as now and to the same service frequency.


Link to the survey: https://forms.office.com/pages/responsep...ZhXnqKQWOE

(17 Nov 2023, 11:34 am)Jimmi wrote Proposed changes to Arriva Services 35 and X21 within Newbiggin & Woodhorn
with effect from Sunday 28th January 2024


What are we proposing to do and why?

Over recent months, the reliability and punctuality of Services 35, X21 and X22 have seen decline in the face of increasing levels of traffic congestion within the region. Arriva, as the operator of these services have an obligation to ensure that we provide a service that is as reliable and punctual as possible.

Our proposal is to revise the way in which Services 35 and X21 operate around Newbiggin & Woodhorn. There will be no change to service frequency, buses will still run up to every 20 minutes during Mon-Fri daytimes, up to every 30 minutes on Saturdays and hourly on evenings and Sundays, however the routes in which they may operate is subject to change.

Main issue I can see is how they timetable it for passengers to see. For example, will journey planners and online timetables show that you can get an X21 or 35 from Newcastle/Morpeth to Newbiggin?

Nedderton Village has always been a headache. Dammed if running a 'secondary' service through it that barely breaks even (i.e the old half-hourly X33 or uncombined X22) or putting a more profitable service through like the X21 but makes the route too long.

Would Arriva be able to shave a few minutes of the X21 running via Stannington junction & A1 after Nedderton as opposed to A192 & A1068? The other issue with that being the level crossing defeating the object.

Also, there's money to be had along Ridge Terrace too which Arriva will need come the ABTRL.

(18 Nov 2023, 2:16 pm)L469 YVK. wrote Would Arriva be able to shave a few minutes of the X21 running via Stannington junction & A1 after Nedderton as opposed to A192 & A1068? The other issue with that being the level crossing defeating the object.

Why would they choose to not serve one of the biggest employment sites on the route in the Cramlington Industrial Estates?

(18 Nov 2023, 2:28 pm)mb134 wrote Why would they choose to not serve one of the biggest employment sites on the route in the Cramlington Industrial Estates?

Would still have the X22 although I get what you mean.

(18 Nov 2023, 3:18 pm)L469 YVK wrote Would still have the X22 although I get what you mean.

Which is totally useless for anyone living around Newbiggin, Wansbeck Hospital, Millburn Road, Bedlington Station, Red House Farm, or Nedderton. 

The X21 serving Nedderton is as much to serve the multiple estates at that end of Bedlington as it is to serve Nedderton. As has been said multiple times, X21s pick up very decent from most/all of those estates.

(18 Nov 2023, 5:19 pm)mb134 wrote Which is totally useless for anyone living around Newbiggin, Wansbeck Hospital, Millburn Road, Bedlington Station, Red House Farm, or Nedderton. 

The X21 serving Nedderton is as much to serve the multiple estates at that end of Bedlington as it is to serve Nedderton. As has been said multiple times, X21s pick up very decent from most/all of those estates.

Yeah, I don't think re-routing via Stannington junction & A1 would bring a time advantage.

The proposed route through Newbiggin I guess is more logical. Only question is where will Arriva get the extra vehicles from unless just using classic E400s? Are they confident that the ABTRL won't damage passenger numbers as reliability issues would normally be the catalyst to frequency reductions.

Unless Arriva possibly have an order up their sleeve with new vehicles on order....maybe 7541-52 going to Belmont & Darlington for the 7?

Customers aren't stupid. However, having to get a bus with an entirely different service number designation in different directions is a recipe for disaster.

Will the 35 and X21 change frequency at the same time of day? If so, the service will be lopsided in one direction.

(18 Nov 2023, 6:10 pm)L469 YVK wrote The proposed route through Newbiggin I guess is more logical. Only question is where will Arriva get the extra vehicles from unless just using classic E400s?

I don't think it would require any additional vehicles? Just the use of the usual 35 allocation (7529-33) on the X21/22 too.

---

(18 Nov 2023, 6:48 pm)DeltaMan wrote Will the 35 and X21 change frequency at the same time of day? If so, the service will be lopsided in one direction.

They do at present, roughly, so I'd imagine this will continue yes.

If the locals give it a chance it there are quite a few positives to this. 

Quicker journeys between Cresswell Arms / Seacrest Rd and the Colliery to the Hospital. 

35 from the turning circle at the Cresswell Arms will travel all the way to Morpeth. 

It should help with reliability and time keeping. 

The different numbers may confuse to start with, but at least Arriva are consulting and preparing well in advance for the change.  As long as they make sure the bus stops are well signed it should be fine.

(18 Nov 2023, 9:07 pm)Bazza wrote If the locals give it a chance it there are quite a few positives to this. 

Quicker journeys between Cresswell Arms / Seacrest Rd and the Colliery to the Hospital. 

35 from the turning circle at the Cresswell Arms will travel all the way to Morpeth. 

It should help with reliability and time keeping. 

The different numbers may confuse to start with, but at least Arriva are consulting and preparing well in advance for the change.  As long as they make sure the bus stops are well signed it should be fine.

Direct link from Woodhorn to Newcastle for the first time in a number of years too. Was it the old X32 that last did it?

(18 Nov 2023, 2:16 pm)L469 YVK wrote Nedderton Village has always been a headache. Dammed if running a 'secondary' service through it that barely breaks even (i.e the old half-hourly X33 or uncombined X22) or putting a more profitable service through like the X21 but makes the route too long.

Would Arriva be able to shave a few minutes of the X21 running via Stannington junction & A1 after Nedderton as opposed to A192 & A1068? The other issue with that being the level crossing defeating the object.

Also, there's money to be had along Ridge Terrace too which Arriva will need come the ABTRL.

See when the train comes in, imo you'd be better looking at more, maybe something like this:

X19 (Hourly): North Seaton - Ashington - Milburn Road - Stakeford - Bedlington Station - Newcastle
X20 (Hourly): Current route Alnwick to Ashington - Milburn Road - Stakeford - Bedlington Station - Newcastle

X19/X20 - Every 30 Minutes Ashington to Newcastle

X21 (2 or 3 BPH): Ashington - Wansbeck Hospital - Woodhorn - Newbiggin - East Sleekburn - Bedlington Station - Bedlington - Nedderton - Newcastle
X22 (2 or 3 BPH): Current Route

X21/X22 - Either 10/15 minutes combined depending on train changes.

Evenings / Sundays: X19/X21/X22 - Each hourly.

Map:


Benefits:

• Faster journey times from Newbiggin to Newcastle
  
• New Newbiggin connection to Bedlington Station for train connections.
  
• New 2 BPH fast from Newcastle to Ashington
  
• Faster journey times from Milburn Road to Newcastle
  
• New evening / Sunday service to Newcastle from North Seaton
  

Negatives for balance:

• Loss of Bedlington to Stakeford service
  
• X20 no longer direct via A189 but after the diversion around Ashington it's neglible.
  
• Longer journey times from North Seaton to Newcastle but gain evening and Sunday service.
  

(18 Nov 2023, 11:36 pm)Storx wrote See when the train comes in, imo you'd be better looking at more, maybe something like this:

X19 (Hourly): North Seaton - Ashington - Milburn Road - Stakeford - Bedlington Station - Newcastle
X20 (Hourly): Current route Alnwick to Ashington - Milburn Road - Stakeford - Bedlington Station - Newcastle

X19/X20 - Every 30 Minutes Ashington to Newcastle

X21 (2 or 3 BPH): Ashington - Wansbeck Hospital - Woodhorn - Newbiggin - East Sleekburn - Bedlington Station - Bedlington - Nedderton - Newcastle
X22 (2 or 3 BPH): Current Route

X21/X22 - Either 10/15 minutes combined depending on train changes.

Evenings / Sundays: X19/X21/X22 - Each hourly.

Map:


Benefits:

• Faster journey times from Newbiggin to Newcastle
  
• New Newbiggin connection to Bedlington Station for train connections.
  
• New 2 BPH fast from Newcastle to Ashington
  
• Faster journey times from Milburn Road to Newcastle
  
• New evening / Sunday service to Newcastle from North Seaton
  

Negatives for balance:

• Loss of Bedlington to Stakeford service
  
• X20 no longer direct via A189 but after the diversion around Ashington it's neglible.
  
• Longer journey times from North Seaton to Newcastle but gain evening and Sunday service.
  

Don't quite understand the fascination with rerouting two of the best performing routes within Arriva Northumbria? 

They've operated, very successfully, in their current form for around a decade, and in that time have had more sets of new vehicles (7522-8, then 7541-52) than any other routes in the region in that time bar the 7.  Lots of that success, I think, is likely down to the stability of the routes and them going to places where people want to travel to. 

This current proposal doesn't really alter the routes at all, obviously the X22 is untouched. The only difference to the X21 is that you're swapping which part of Newbiggin gets the quicker journey times.

Only other thing that could be done to solve the Nedderton problem out (and could maybe win a few over around Bedlington Station vs the ABTRL)

- X21 - via Hartford Road instead of Nedderton (every 30 mins).

- X22 - unchanged (every 30 minutes).

**X21/X22 would be every 10/20 from Ashington then a flat 15 minute frequency on other common sections**.

- 42 - Bedlington Town Centre clockwise loop starting from Glebe Road then after Front Street West > Nedderton > A192 > A1068 > B1318 Seaton Burn then as per 43 to Newcastle (every 30 minutes).

- 43 - Same route Morpeth to Newcastle but now every 30 minutes throughout.

No changes to 44/45 other than possibly timetables.

(19 Nov 2023, 7:40 am)L469 YVK wrote Only other thing that could be done to solve the Nedderton problem out (and could maybe win a few over around Bedlington Station vs the ABTRL)

- X21 - via Hartford Road instead of Nedderton (every 30 mins).

- X22 - unchanged (every 30 minutes).

**X21/X22 would be every 10/20 from Ashington then a flat 15 minute frequency on other common sections**.

- 42 - Bedlington Town Centre clockwise loop starting from Glebe Road then after Front Street West > Nedderton > A192 > A1068 > B1318 Seaton Burn then as per 43 to Newcastle (every 30 minutes).

- 43 - Same route Morpeth to Newcastle but now every 30 minutes throughout.

No changes to 44/45 other than possibly timetables.

If I remember correctly the 43 was every 30 minutes back in the day when the 42 was a service but I believe the 42 got withdrawn when the whole Great North Road agreement came in for the 43/44/45 as that whole section was a mess when you had thr 40/41/42/43/44/45 and all the A/B/C/D Variation

(19 Nov 2023, 8:27 am)Aaron21 wrote If I remember correctly the 43 was every 30 minutes back in the day when the 42 was a service but I believe the 42 got withdrawn when the whole Great North Road agreement came in for the 43/44/45 as that whole section was a mess when you had thr 40/41/42/43/44/45 and all the A/B/C/D Variation

Yeah, I don't think we'll see them days back nor would we want to. Would actually be quite simple with a 42.

42/43 - Newcastle - Gosforth - Seaton Burn then Bedlington; or Cramlington & Morpeth
44/45 - Newcastle - Gosforth - Dinnington

(19 Nov 2023, 12:00 am)mb134 wrote Don't quite understand the fascination with rerouting two of the best performing routes within Arriva Northumbria? 

They've operated, very successfully, in their current form for around a decade, and in that time have had more sets of new vehicles (7522-8, then 7541-52) than any other routes in the region in that time bar the 7.  Lots of that success, I think, is likely down to the stability of the routes and them going to places where people want to travel to. 

This current proposal doesn't really alter the routes at all, obviously the X22 is untouched. The only difference to the X21 is that you're swapping which part of Newbiggin gets the quicker journey times.

I agree, but the train, regardless to what people think, is going to have an impact on the X20 and X21 so it was about moving the benefits from the train station areas to the further areas. It's why imo, the Bedlington section shouldn't be touched as it's fine.

With those changes, the X19/X20 (X20) would become more useful for people in the South side of Ashington and offer more people an express to Newcastle in the Milbourne Road area rather than having to go via Nedderton and around the world, the time between the two routes is neglible anyway as the X20 goes on a tour around Ashington, and if interworking with the 1 could give a 15 minute service between Bedlington Station and Ashington so no loss for local journeys and quicker journey times to Newcastle albeit slightly less frequent.

For the X21 it opens up new connections at the top end of Ashington by looping around the new estate at the top near the hospital, need to work with the council for some new stops, but for people in Newbiggin substantial time reductions towards Newcastle by running direct to Bedlington Station without having to go around the doors of Ashington. It's the only area which won't be affected by the train and imo it's way too slow and always has been, this would knock off about 20 minutes and that's a big time difference. 

Newbiggin has always had a quite poor service to Newcastle really for the benefit for Ashington who has the fast train aswell, swapping it around surely has it benefits now where there's still the X19/X20/X22 for quicker buses to Newcastle for who actually wants them.

(19 Nov 2023, 7:40 am)L469 YVK wrote Only other thing that could be done to solve the Nedderton problem out (and could maybe win a few over around Bedlington Station vs the ABTRL)

- X21 - via Hartford Road instead of Nedderton (every 30 mins).

The X21 going via Red House Farm and Nedderton is literally an extra 5 minutes compared to it going down Hartford Road, that isn't going to be a deciding factor in whether people continue to use the bus or not.

(19 Nov 2023, 9:41 am)Storx wrote I agree, but the train, regardless to what people think, is going to have an impact on the X20 and X21 so it was about moving the benefits from the train station areas to the further areas. It's why imo, the Bedlington section shouldn't be touched as it's fine.

Newbiggin has always had a quite poor service to Newcastle really for the benefit for Ashington who has the fast train aswell, swapping it around surely has it benefits now where there's still the X19/X20/X22 for quicker buses to Newcastle for who actually wants them.

Regardless of the impact of the train, I don't think a total rework of those routes is what is needed. 

I imagine the X21 will have time built in to the upcoming change to allow it to loop the Wansbeck Hospital estates once they're completed, it should only take a couple of minutes extra. 

In terms of Newbiggin, lots of people already get a 35 to South Side and catch the X20 from there. I think the solution could be to do a 6am and 7am express (like the X30), which start at Ashington, loop Wansbeck Hospital, through Newbiggin, then direct to town. There is an Ashington 43 board which starts at 0655 from Newcastle which the first one could go onto, then the second could go onto one of the later starting X21s. In the PM peak you could use their school bus to do one out of town around 1630, and an early finish X21 board to do one around 1730.

(19 Nov 2023, 10:38 am)mb134 wrote Regardless of the impact of the train, I don't think a total rework of those routes is what is needed. 

I imagine the X21 will have time built in to the upcoming change to allow it to loop the Wansbeck Hospital estates once they're completed, it should only take a couple of minutes extra. 

In terms of Newbiggin, lots of people already get a 35 to South Side and catch the X20 from there. I think the solution could be to do a 6am and 7am express (like the X30), which start at Ashington, loop Wansbeck Hospital, through Newbiggin, then direct to town. There is an Ashington 43 board which starts at 0655 from Newcastle which the first one could go onto, then the second could go onto one of the later starting X21s. In the PM peak you could use their school bus to do one out of town around 1630, and an early finish X21 board to do one around 1730.

Aye, I get that. I don't know, I'm not saying those above but there's quite a lot of Ashington which is pretty badly served as they've built new houses and they've forgot to put buses there especially at the East side. Not sure what the answer is but not sure banging more time onto the X21 and making it even slower for Newbiggin is the best idea personally.

Alnwick Drive and Dunstanburgh in Bedlington is another area crying for a bus service if some bus stops were fitted, but again same problem with making other bus services slower, similar to Stead Lane.

I'm not going to suggest millions of routes but imo it would be better to try and resurrect the old X31/X32 somehow in Newbiggin instead of confusing loops but that's going to be bigger changes.

X31/X32 timetable for those who forgot - https://travelnortheast.co.uk/downloads/...ig-ash.pdf

(19 Nov 2023, 11:36 am)Storx wrote Not sure what the answer is but not sure banging more time onto the X21 and making it even slower for Newbiggin is the best idea personally.

In the face of all local authorities in this area doing absolutely sod all in respect of bus priority schemes, unfortunately the operator is left to pick up and pieces and try to make it work, yet again...

Every one of the authorities and political leaders in this region, already do and will continue to beat bus operators with a stick for not running on time, but not one has done anything meaningful in respect of bus priority.

Congestion unfortunately continues to increase and blight our major towns and cities, with buses end up sat in the same traffic as everyone else.

To boil this down, this proposal is essentially Arriva trying to get these services to work reliably again, which unfortunately means extra time = slower journeys.

Local highways authorities need to play their part, but they never will, as politically it would be suicidal to go against the private motorist.

Expect more of this type of thing to be honest, from all operators.

(19 Nov 2023, 11:47 am)RobinHood wrote In the face of all local authorities in this area doing absolutely sod all in respect of bus priority schemes, unfortunately the operator is left to pick up and pieces and try to make it work, yet again...

Every one of the authorities and political leaders in this region, already do and will continue to beat bus operators with a stick for not running on time, but not one has done anything meaningful in respect of bus priority.

Congestion unfortunately continues to increase and blight our major towns and cities, with buses end up sat in the same traffic as everyone else.

To boil this down, this proposal is essentially Arriva trying to get these services to work reliably again, which unfortunately means extra time = slower journeys.

Local highways authorities need to play their part, but they never will, as politically it would be suicidal to go against the private motorist. 

Expect more of this type of thing to be honest, from all operators.

Many local authorities have done this though. 
Whether it's bus lanes or bus priority measures - we've seen operators ignore them (Wardley Bus Gate and Centrelink as two examples) . Or, we've seen pollution increase (Newcastle City Centre being evident in many of the pollution hot-spot lists). 

It also pushes the narrative that public transport is only better, if travelling in the private car is made difficult. 
Isn't public transport strong enough to stand on its own two feet, without pointing the finger and acting like a petulant child? 
Don't they have enough nous in the industry to come up with something good - that doesn't involve standing with their begging bowl that helps fund new vehicles, a fancier ticket machine that links to an app or WiFi options?

Both of the current Arriva consultations use the term TLDR.
TLDR - It doesn't matter where within Newbiggin or Woodhorn that you got on at, the bus you come back on will take you back to that same location.
TLDR - It doesn't matter where within Ingleby Barwick that you got on at, the bus you come back on will take you back to that same location.
What does TLDR stand for please?

(19 Nov 2023, 10:20 am)mb134 wrote The X21 going via Red House Farm and Nedderton is literally an extra 5 minutes compared to it going down Hartford Road, that isn't going to be a deciding factor in whether people continue to use the bus or not.

So.......

ex Newbiggin
- B1331/A192 - need to give priority to S.Bound traffic
- A192/A1068 - need to give priority to N/S.Bound traffic

I'd imagine both junctions will be a nightmare at busy times.

ex Newcastle
- B1331/A192 - need to give priority to S.Bound traffic

Okay, perhaps the 5 minutes saved would be 'invested' elsewhere in the route....but passengers would perceive it to be 'faster'. Bit like the old 308 & 309 argument pre-QA.

Technically, Stakeford & Bedlington are only getting a 20 minute service taking into account how close the following X21/X22 is behind due to the 14/6 splits. Surely a flat 15 minute service will spread the loads out better.

Plus.....having the slower 42 would be a huge advantage if an incident causing huge delays kicked off in Gosforth (which isn't uncommon)! Anyone wanting Regent Centre and Gosforth if things got bad one morning / evening....get off and change onto the 42 and vice versa. X21/X22 straight down to Kenton Bar then A167 & Claremont Road to avoid the worst of the traffic & delays to get back on-time later on.

---

(19 Nov 2023, 11:36 am)Storx wrote Alnwick Drive and Dunstanburgh in Bedlington is another area crying for a bus service if some bus stops were fitted, but again same problem with making other bus services slower, similar to Stead Lane.

Well......there you have the 42 for that

(19 Nov 2023, 12:12 pm)XQ Zero wrote Both of the current Arriva consultations use the term TLDR.
TLDR - It doesn't matter where within Newbiggin or Woodhorn that you got on at, the bus you come back on will take you back to that same location.
TLDR - It doesn't matter where within Ingleby Barwick that you got on at, the bus you come back on will take you back to that same location.
What does TLDR stand for please?

Think it means too long didn’t read

(19 Nov 2023, 1:06 pm)Thomas12 wrote Think it means too long didn’t read

Yeah

(19 Nov 2023, 12:08 pm)Andreos1 wrote Many local authorities have done this though. 
Whether it's bus lanes or bus priority measures - we've seen operators ignore them (Wardley Bus Gate and Centrelink as two examples) . Or, we've seen pollution increase (Newcastle City Centre being evident in many of the pollution hot-spot lists). 

It also pushes the narrative that public transport is only better, if travelling in the private car is made difficult. 
Isn't public transport strong enough to stand on its own two feet, without pointing the finger and acting like a petulant child? 
Don't they have enough nous in the industry to come up with something good - that doesn't involve standing with their begging bowl that helps fund new vehicles, a fancier ticket machine that links to an app or WiFi options?

The bus will always be slower than the car though, as it stops at various points to pick up and drop off, even if the route was identical. That kind of suggests that it does need 'help' to be a comparable option that the government and politicians keep shouting about, as it cannot fly over congestion (yet).

That help needs to be major investment in bus priority (doesn't need to be to the detriment of the car at all, if it is considered and implemented with thought, it can compliment). Unfortunately, none of our authorities are that clever to devise such a scheme.

Public Transport can apparently stand up on its own two feet yes, as evidenced by London and Manchester.... (ignoring the sheer volume of subsidy from public funds needed for both of them, but nobody talks about that, only moaning about commercial operators with their 'begging bowl' instead). When the North East goes that way, which we all know it will, the viability and performance of the network both land at the feet of the authorities and we may see some change then.

Until that time, get used to slower bus journeys.

(19 Nov 2023, 2:27 pm)RobinHood wrote The bus will always be slower than the car though, as it stops at various points to pick up and drop off, even if the route was identical. That kind of suggests that it does need 'help' to be a comparable option that the government and politicians keep shouting about, as it cannot fly over congestion (yet). 

That help needs to be major investment in bus priority (doesn't need to be to the detriment of the car at all, if it is considered and implemented with thought, it can compliment). Unfortunately, none of our authorities are that clever to devise such a scheme.

Public Transport can apparently stand up on its own two feet yes, as evidenced by London and Manchester.... (ignoring the sheer volume of subsidy from public funds needed for both of them, but nobody talks about that, only moaning about commercial operators with their 'begging bowl' instead). When the North East goes that way, which we all know it will, the viability and performance of the network both land at the feet of the authorities and we may see some change then.

Until that time, get used to slower bus journeys.

So why bother having a bus at all? 
Why have bus priority measures, if there's not going to be a negligible impact on journey times?

All it takes is a look at the network that doesn't always work for passengers and then look at how journey times can be improved via internal approaches vs external approaches.

This is clearly a thread for a specific operator, so I won't go too far off topic, but there's many an example of journeys now taking longer than they did previously. Part of that is down to road traffic measures. The other is entirely down to the routing or stopping arrangements that have been introduced over the years. Whack in the fact the core corridors are treated as a priority over a less frequent route and you can surely see why people find the car more attractive. 
It doesn't take a genius to see that a journey of 45mins previously on one bus vs two buses plus connection times and the equivalent journey taking over an hour - is going to have an impact on passenger numbers and road traffic. 

Those barriers designed at operational level are enough to put people off using the bus and by virtue result in more traffic being on the road.

The X21 example being a prime case and as you say, we will have to get used to slower bus journeys. Or if we don't want to get used to slower bus journeys, we make the switch to the car. Leading to more cars being on the road and even slower bus journeys. Probably getting to the point where they're no longer viable.

Boils down to basic cause and effect, that nobody is able or capable of fixing.

(19 Nov 2023, 12:17 pm)L469 YVK wrote So.......

ex Newbiggin
- B1331/A192 - need to give priority to S.Bound traffic
- A192/A1068 - need to give priority to N/S.Bound traffic

I'd imagine both junctions will be a nightmare at busy times.

ex Newcastle
- B1331/A192 - need to give priority to S.Bound traffic

Honestly, neither of those junctions are huge issues. Getting onto Bedlington Front Street from Vulcan Place is generally worse. 

Joining North Seaton roundabout headed towards Ashington/Newcastle is far worse due to the position of it relative to the previous entrance, they can be sitting there for a couple of minutes in the morning peak in particular (and there's usually some traffic leading up to it). This proposal removes that, and only the 35 will be trying to join it there now.

(19 Nov 2023, 11:47 am)RobinHood wrote In the face of all local authorities in this area doing absolutely sod all in respect of bus priority schemes, unfortunately the operator is left to pick up and pieces and try to make it work, yet again...

Local highways authorities need to play their part, but they never will, as politically it would be suicidal to go against the private motorist.

Expect more of this type of thing to be honest, from all operators.

Regent Centre is a prime example of this, and one which impacts more than just Arriva. 

Due to the pattern of the lights heading to town, it is generally impossible to enter and exit without stopping at the exit as well - even without stopping to pick up/drop off. 

To enter, southbound, the right filter doesn't go green unless a bus is already waiting there. So say a bus misses it by 2 seconds, and arrives as their light should be turning green, they need to wait for the north/south traffic to pass through, then the east/west. Drive in, pick up/drop off, then go and wait at another set of traffic lights. The entire thing can take 3-4 minutes. 

Gosforth High Street is as equally ridiculous, there's absolutely no need for that many sets of traffic lights. The ones at actual junctions, fair enough, but the two in the middle outside of the shopping centre and outside Halifax are literally 10 car lengths apart looking at Google Maps. 

Another example, the stretch of road past the entrance to Newcastle Golf Course. Bus lane starts just further down heading into Newcastle, but the traffic at that roundabout is horrendous heading out in the PM peak. It's a ridiculously wide road, surely there's enough space for a short bus lane leading up to the roundabout.