(26 Jan 2024, 11:20 pm)Storx wrote I just think it's bonkers that there's currently 10 16 Plate Streetdeck's sitting around in London collecting dust right now and have been since around September with no use for them since they're such a microfleet.

Complete waste, could easily be the solution for this mess, by converting them to single door, sending them to Yorkshire to join their batch down there and them sending some Enviro's up here, even if it's a temporary solution.

@megan, I'd be very surprised if it's the biggest money maker (assuming with Arriva). I'd say with fair confidence that the Stagecoach 39/40 are the most profitable route in the North East.

To be fair it would be cool to have some Streetdecks to see off the ALX’s. I know Coastliner use streetdecks for their services to Whitby and Scarborough so I can’t see why Arriva wouldn’t be able to if they were transferred. But tbf if they were to come to the north they probs would all go to Durham and Blyth and then Redcar would get their older buses.

(27 Jan 2024, 12:30 am)Rapidsnap wrote I'm not sure about that claim. Think it's pretty much neck and neck between the 39/40 and 62/63. Though that may have changed with the last changes. 

One thing for sure, the 39/40 are the most frequent routes in the North East between Welbeck Rd / Titan Road and Lemington Road Ends.

Aye I was thinking the 62/63, edited it out last minute tho. Got to be the 39/40 surely now with the extension at the Throckley end which is always quiet, and the Killingworth end isn't much better. 

Whenever I see the 39/40 it always seems to have decent loads wherever you see it, even on the A69 at the far outer West. 

Be curious though which is now mind.

(27 Jan 2024, 2:56 am)Mike_98 wrote To be fair it would be cool to have some Streetdecks to see off the ALX’s. I know Coastliner use streetdecks for their services to Whitby and Scarborough so I can’t see why Arriva wouldn’t be able to if they were transferred. But tbf if they were to come to the north they probs would all go to Durham and Blyth and then Redcar would get their older buses.

They’re not Streetdeck they’re Volvo B5TL on the Coastliner network. Given First Sheffield’s experience of Streetdecks they wouldn’t last two minutes on a demanding route like the X93. They’re city buses not interurban machines


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(27 Jan 2024, 2:56 am)Mike_98 wrote To be fair it would be cool to have some Streetdecks to see off the ALX’s. I know Coastliner use streetdecks for their services to Whitby and Scarborough so I can’t see why Arriva wouldn’t be able to if they were transferred. But tbf if they were to come to the north they probs would all go to Durham and Blyth and then Redcar would get their older buses.

Volvo's the Coastliner ones aren't they? Not sure Streetdecks would be a good idea though, they have problems with them in London ans that's why they're not used and hate them. They really need an early retirement route like the 64 at Durham if they ended up here but they'd be better at Yorkshire (or Merseyside) to join their existing batches. They're the only other 2 areas with them I believe.

(27 Jan 2024, 8:40 am)Storx wrote Volvo's the Coast liner ones aren't they? Not sure Street decks would be a good idea though, they have problems with them in London ans that's why they're not used and hate them. They really need an early retirement route like the 64 at Durham if they ended up here but they'd be better at Yorkshire (or Merseyside) to join their existing batches. They're the only other 2 areas with them I believe.

Volvo g3

1429 tracking on 63, x4 and 81 today


On a side note it's seems unfair to penilise Redcar for breaking buses.
Yes admit 7401 and 4705 aside but most of the pulsars have been cascaded from other depots. Surely that is a repercussion on them. I'm unsure how the transfer thing works but surely they need to look at the routes Redcar and whitby depot offer and go right ok we need some slightly younger buses or a full fleet replacement to ensure capacity and capability

(27 Jan 2024, 8:51 am)Ryland wrote 1429 tracking on 63, x4 and 81 today


On a side note it's seems unfair to penilise Redcar for breaking buses.
Yes admit 7401 and 4705 aside but most of the pulsars have been cascaded from other depots. Surely that is a repercussion on them. I'm unsure how the transfer thing works but surely they need to look at the routes Redcar and whitby depot offer and go right ok we need some slightly younger buses or a full fleet replacement to ensure capacity and capability

1428 is now at Redcar  been told that's now replaced 4705

(27 Jan 2024, 8:51 am)Ryland wrote 1429 tracking on 63, x4 and 81 today


On a side note it's seems unfair to penilise Redcar for breaking buses.
Yes admit 7401 and 4705 aside but most of the pulsars have been cascaded from other depots. Surely that is a repercussion on them. I'm unsure how the transfer thing works but surely they need to look at the routes Redcar and whitby depot offer and go right ok we need some slightly younger buses or a full fleet replacement to ensure capacity and capability

In fairness though the Streetlites are only moving out supposedly as there's someone at Stockton who can actually maintain them properly. 

Obviously you look at the glass half full approach and say that the bloke at Stockton is good and it's great he can do that or you could also arguably twist that and say that Redcar are inept and can't look after them at all. 

I have a feeling though that the Teesside BSIP bid might have something in for Redcar though. The X3/X4 and 63 are two of the Tees Valley priority routes and both are running around with a heritage fleet atm.

To be fair I would argue the Pulsars are better vehicles for a route like the X4 with the terrain and loadings it carries.

Seems 1428 & 1490 are both out for Redcar again today


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(27 Jan 2024, 8:39 am)tyresmoke wrote They’re not Streetdeck they’re Volvo B5TL on the Coastliner network. Given First Sheffield’s experience of Streetdecks they wouldn’t last two minutes on a demanding route like the X93. They’re city buses not interurban machines


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Yeh I forgot my bad. Yeh I guess I should have remembered considering they have the word ‘Street’ in them. I think some B5TL’s would be good for the X93 but I don’t think Arriva have any spare anywhere.

(27 Jan 2024, 12:36 pm)Mike_98 wrote Yeh I forgot my bad. Yeh I guess I should have remembered considering they have the word ‘Street’ in them. I think some B5TL’s would be good for the X93 but I don’t think Arriva have any spare anywhere.

Yeah they were eating engines even on the X1 & X78 and they’re pretty flat by South Yorkshire standards!

Don’t know where you’d go next for the X93 but it needs a route to offload vehicles to every 4-5 years - the X46 would be the ideal candidate but that’s going electric (assuming they get their Zebra2 bid money) so that’s no good… the B9s are now 9 years old this summer and past their best - though still putting in sterling service compared to the B7s! Sadly the seasonal nature of it means you can’t really buy a full new fleet every time but certainly could justify 5/6 full timers and cascade the older stock onto a less demanding route.


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(27 Jan 2024, 8:51 am)Ryland wrote 1429 tracking on 63, x4 and 81 today


On a side note it's seems unfair to penilise Redcar for breaking buses.
Yes admit 7401 and 4705 aside but most of the pulsars have been cascaded from other depots. Surely that is a repercussion on them. I'm unsure how the transfer thing works but surely they need to look at the routes Redcar and whitby depot offer and go right ok we need some slightly younger buses or a full fleet replacement to ensure capacity and capability

They still trying to sort out 7401? I know it’s got a problem with a rear axle or something. I’m surprised they’ve held onto it for so long despite the problems it’s facing. But then again if that goes that will be another decker down and that’s the last thing Redcar need before summer.

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(27 Jan 2024, 12:41 pm)tyresmoke wrote Yeah they were eating engines even on the X1 & X78 and they’re pretty flat by South Yorkshire standards!

Don’t know where you’d go next for the X93 but it needs a route to offload vehicles to every 4-5 years - the X46 would be the ideal candidate but that’s going electric (assuming they get their Zebra2 bid money) so that’s no good… the B9s are now 9 years old this summer and past their best - though still putting in sterling service compared to the B7s! Sadly the seasonal nature of it means you can’t really buy a full new fleet every time but certainly could justify 5/6 full timers and cascade the older stock onto a less demanding route.


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Yeh, buying a new fleet would be not worth it every time. But surely there’s some Db300s, E400s and B9s going spare somewhere to replace and see off the B7s or are Arrivas fleet that bad everywhere else in the country.

Edit: Just been looking and they do have some more B7 ALX’s and Gemini 1s down south and also some B9 Gemini 1s and Olympus’s but they all get used by the looks of it.

(27 Jan 2024, 8:39 am)tyresmoke wrote They’re not Streetdeck they’re Volvo B5TL on the Coastliner network. Given First Sheffield’s experience of Streetdecks they wouldn’t last two minutes on a demanding route like the X93. They’re city buses not interurban machines

The demonstrator they trialled on the X93 a few years back was bad enough, struggled getting up the hills round Robin Hoods Bay. https://flic.kr/p/Y1cfRV

It's debatable if the B5TLs are even a good fit for the Coastliner routes, although it seems nothing on the market is particularly good for the likes of Coastliner and the X93 as the B9TLs were, supposedly the Coastliner drivers don't particularly like the E400MMC that works out of Malton at times.

I'd also personally prefer Pulsars to StreetLite's on the X4 as if nothing else, Pulsars feel a bit more airy whereas Lites feel a bit more condensed and are horrifically stuffy on hot days, not helped by the positioning of opening windows all at the front of the bus and don't open particularly far either, thought I was gonna pass out sat at the back on an X4 riding a Lite with a standing load on a summers day.

I know I've mentioned them before, but surely the X93 is the sort of the route for coaches.

It's literally limited stop bar the Scarborough end, but the 10 (EYMS) does most of that anyway. It would actually bring comforts that people might actually want, ie a toilet, and most people are likely travelling on it for long distances.

The time delay for people boarding, will no doubt be made up by the vehicles actually being able to do the route and not struggling everywhere.

(27 Jan 2024, 11:45 pm)Jimmi wrote The demonstrator they trialled on the X93 a few years back was bad enough, struggled getting up the hills round Robin Hoods Bay. https://flic.kr/p/Y1cfRV

It's debatable if the B5TLs are even a good fit for the Coastliner routes, although it seems nothing on the market is particularly good for the likes of Coastliner and the X93 as the B9TLs were, supposedly the Coastliner drivers don't particularly like the E400MMC that works out of Malton at times.

I'd also personally prefer Pulsars to StreetLite's on the X4 as if nothing else, Pulsars feel a bit more airy whereas Lites feel a bit more condensed and are horrifically stuffy on hot days, not helped by the positioning of opening windows all at the front of the bus and don't open particularly far either, thought I was gonna pass out sat at the back on an X4 riding a Lite with a standing load on a summers day.

Didn't even know that a Streetdeck was trialled on the X93 though which makes it obvious on why they didn't get them. Did they ever trial the E400's or E400MMC's when they were introduced. I know they had 2 E400MMC's last year on loan from Ashington which worked like a glove.

Along with the X4, Pulsars are the only option but tbf 2 or 3 Temsas can handle the route fine. Theres no other buses which would be good for that. Also are MCV Evoras and Evoseti's any good do ya reckon.

Also was on 2 Streetlites last year on the X94. One from M'boro to Scarborough and one from Scarborough to Whitby and however, they do have comfy seats it was soo cramped being rammed full of people and had to drive past people because it was full. At least Pulsars have a lot of space.

(28 Jan 2024, 12:02 am)Storx wrote I know I've mentioned them before, but surely the X93 is the sort of the route for coaches.

It's literally limited stop bar the Scarborough end, but the 10 (EYMS) does most of that anyway. It would actually bring comforts that people might actually want, ie a toilet, and most people are likely travelling on it for long distances.

The time delay for people boarding, will no doubt be made up by the vehicles actually being able to do the route and not struggling everywhere.

I honestly don't think it is. They might be able to do the route, but capacity wise they aren't enough during the summer unless you go for a double deck variant which will be prohibitively expensive. At the point of a normal coach, you may as well get a heavy duty single deck (such as a B8RLE) which has the benefit of allowing standees. 

I think a batch of E400s would be the best bet, until an EV has enough range to do it.

(28 Jan 2024, 12:02 am)Storx wrote I know I've mentioned them before, but surely the X93 is the sort of the route for coaches.

It's literally limited stop bar the Scarborough end, but the 10 (EYMS) does most of that anyway. It would actually bring comforts that people might actually want, ie a toilet, and most people are likely travelling on it for long distances.

The time delay for people boarding, will no doubt be made up by the vehicles actually being able to do the route and not struggling everywhere.

Used to be Plaxton Primas back in the day 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c...y_2009.JPG

If they were to coaches they would have to run 2 at once or more frequent as the Deckers hold more capacity. I vaguely remember going on them. I do remember the Omnicities that they had for the 93 too. They weren't the best for hills.

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(28 Jan 2024, 12:12 am)mb134 wrote I honestly don't think it is. They might be able to do the route, but capacity wise they aren't enough during the summer unless you go for a double deck variant which will be prohibitively expensive. At the point of a normal coach, you may as well get a heavy duty single deck (such as a B8RLE) which has the benefit of allowing standees. 

I think a batch of E400s would be the best bet, until an EV has enough range to do it.

Just thought, ya reckon Enviro 500's would work?

(28 Jan 2024, 12:02 am)Mike_98 wrote Along with the X4, Pulsars are the only option but tbf 2 or 3 Temsas can handle the route fine. Theres no other buses which would be good for that. Also are MCV Evoras and Evoseti's any good do ya reckon.

The Volvo B8RLE/MCV Evora is probably the best bet to go onto the likes of the X4 in my opinion. The engine in it has been used in coaches and intercity buses across Europe, and is proving itself in the B8RLE across the UK now too. It's far ahead of the E200 MMC in terms of capability, and I believe due to the low price of the MCV bodywork it's very similar in cost (possibly cheaper, can't quite remember).

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(28 Jan 2024, 12:12 am)Mike_98 wrote Just thought, ya reckon Enviro 500's would work?

Are they still produced? 

I know First have had some serious issues with sourcing parts for theirs, can't quite remember the specifics but I'm sure they had to keep getting one of the rear axles reconditioned because of them constantly failing.

If E500 are bought is there any route in the winter that could be switched for shorter E400MMC, to provide addtional capacity within Newcastle

(28 Jan 2024, 12:17 am)mb134 wrote The Volvo B8RLE/MCV Evora is probably the best bet to go onto the likes of the X4 in my opinion. The engine in it has been used in coaches and intercity buses across Europe, and is proving itself in the B8RLE across the UK now too. It's far ahead of the E200 MMC in terms of capability, and I believe due to the low price of the MCV bodywork it's very similar in cost (possibly cheaper, can't quite remember).

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Are they still produced? 

I know First have had some serious issues with sourcing parts for theirs, can't quite remember the specifics but I'm sure they had to keep getting one of the rear axles reconditioned because of them constantly failing.

It will be interesting when Arriva do another big batch of buying when the Pulsars go. Knowing Arriva they'll go for some UK Style Temsa LF's XD. Nah, who knows. I would imagine MCV or Alexander Dennis Products as Wrightbus aren't really great anymore.

And Yes they still make Enviro 500's for UK, EU and even a USA model

(28 Jan 2024, 12:12 am)mb134 wrote I honestly don't think it is. They might be able to do the route, but capacity wise they aren't enough during the summer unless you go for a double deck variant which will be prohibitively expensive. At the point of a normal coach, you may as well get a heavy duty single deck (such as a B8RLE) which has the benefit of allowing standees. 

I think a batch of E400s would be the best bet, until an EV has enough range to do it.

Aye that's true about capacity. Mind be interesting to see how the B8's would do considering in theory they're a worse engine than what they've got now and they're all blown to pieces already. 

Then again you could probably give them a 20L engine and they'll still break since the issue isn't the buses and it's partly Redcar's fantastic engineering.

Fleet swap suggestion. How about Redcar swap their solos for the 63 reg solos from Yorkshire as a trial on the 95/6

(28 Jan 2024, 4:10 pm)Ryland wrote Fleet swap suggestion. How about Redcar swap their solos for the 63 reg solos from Yorkshire as a trial on the 95/6

That wouldn’t be a bad shout. Personally I think once the solos are gone I think they’ll get some short 200mmcs. They may go for Optare but who knows. We definitely know they most likely won’t go for WF Streetlites. But to be fair newer solos would be good. How reliable are the SR’s?

(27 Jan 2024, 10:12 am)tyresmoke wrote To be fair I would argue the Pulsars are better vehicles for a route like the X4 with the terrain and loadings it carries.

Seems 1428 & 1490 are both out for Redcar again today


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1428 is 4705 replacement i herd

(28 Jan 2024, 7:17 pm)Mike_98 wrote That wouldn’t be a bad shout. Personally I think once the solos are gone I think they’ll get some short 200mmcs. They may go for Optare but who knows. We definitely know they most likely won’t go for WF Streetlites. But to be fair newer solos would be good. How reliable are the SR’s?

You need wheel forward vehicles, on one of the 2 routes - not sure which, because of grounding issues. Couldn't use the Enviro 200 MMC's.

For the Solo swap, not sure Yorkshire would want the older Solo's either, they're knackered.

(28 Jan 2024, 9:57 pm)Storx wrote You need wheel forward vehicles, on one of the 2 routes - not sure which, because of grounding issues. Couldn't use the Enviro 200 MMC's.

For the Solo swap, not sure Yorkshire would want the older Solo's either, they're knackered.

So it will be either Optare or Wrightbus then. Well it will probs be Optare if they get some new ones when the Solos go cause the WF Streetlites are terrible

(28 Jan 2024, 10:24 pm)Mike_98 wrote So it will be either Optare or Wrightbus then. Well it will probs be Optare if they get some new ones when the Solos go cause the WF Streetlites are terrible

Yeah, unless they go for some form of breadvan for it instead. Iveco or Mellor etc. I know they already have Mellor Strata's, or did, in the North West. Mind capacity might be an issue for the contract on those.

1428 & 1490 are currently on loan to Redcar, I’ve heard nothing that 1428 has transferred only thing I know is that both of them are on loan & should be due back at Stockton soon


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(28 Jan 2024, 9:31 pm)megansmith wrote 1428 is 4705 replacement i herd

1428 isn’t 4705 replacement at all because it’s back at Stockton on 17B


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Coaches won't come back to the X93/X94, they won't add much capacity, but will add extra time for loading and unloading. And toilets on board certainly wouldn't happen.

A little more flexibility with the route and timetable would be a help in summer. Bringing back the short working Whitby- Fylingthorpe section would take some pressure off, as Robin Hoods Bay gets big loadings at times.
Then they could have some expresses missing out RHB perhaps. Passengers from Teesside are going to either Whitby or Scarborough, I see no reason why all the X93s and X94s have to go through Robin Hoods Bay.