(20 Feb 2024, 1:37 pm)mb134 wrote 37 minutes from Ashington to Newcastle seems very slow, especially when the X20 does it in 45. 

I imagine that'll be the case for most people given the timings, since a bus stop will likely be closer to their door than the badly positioned train stations. 

The last train being 22:16 is far too early too.

There's also not a huge amount of time at Ashington for when things inevitably go wrong and delays happen.

Depends where you're going though, not to mention if a train says it takes 37 minutes, it very likely will, unlike buses. Have to remember the X20, is nowhere near the train station and it's more the X22 passengers, who could very likely be getting single deckers with standing loads in a few months time, which takes well over an hour at peak times. Remember Hexham used to have the X84/X85 which were similar, but they made no impact on the trains and died.

It's the same for the other stations especially the two Blyth ones and Seaton Delaval, which rely on the X7/X8/X9 which are complete shambles, as an understatement.

Haymarket / Central Station are both out of the way in Newcastle really, so that depends which end you're going to there.

Agree the last train is a bit early though mind but pricing will be the main killer if it's not integrated.

(20 Feb 2024, 2:33 pm)Storx wrote Depends where you're going though, not to mention if a train says it takes 37 minutes, it very likely will, unlike buses. Have to remember the X20, is nowhere near the train station and it's more the X22 passengers, who could very likely be getting single deckers with standing loads in a few months time, which takes well over an hour at peak times. Remember Hexham used to have the X84/X85 which were similar, but they made no impact on the trains and died.

It's the same for the other stations especially the two Blyth ones and Seaton Delaval, which rely on the X7/X8/X9 which are complete shambles, as an understatement.

Haymarket / Central Station are both out of the way in Newcastle really, so that depends which end you're going to there.

Agree the last train is a bit early though mind but pricing will be the main killer if it's not integrated.

I'm not too sure, some of the timings look very tight and obviously it's all coordinated at the Newcastle end to ensure no disruption to the ECML services which will 100% get priority. There is at least one train (1148 ex Newcastle) which is timed to stop at Benton to allow something to pass, but has no time to actually do so. 

Even in your example of the X22 the main area of housing there is around Fallowfield, which is a 15+ minute walk to the train station. So you're already looking at it being nearly one hour into Central on a train which is less frequent and a hefty walk in the rain (we're in England after all). 

To be fair to Haymarket (and Eldon Square), it's right next to the universities, main shopping street/centre, council offices, and RVI just as some examples.

(20 Feb 2024, 2:49 pm)mb134 wrote I'm not too sure, some of the timings look very tight and obviously it's all coordinated at the Newcastle end to ensure no disruption to the ECML services which will 100% get priority. There is at least one train (1148 ex Newcastle) which is timed to stop at Benton to allow something to pass, but has no time to actually do so. 

Even in your example of the X22 the main area of housing there is around Fallowfield, which is a 15+ minute walk to the train station. So you're already looking at it being nearly one hour into Central on a train which is less frequent and a hefty walk in the rain (we're in England after all). 

To be fair to Haymarket (and Eldon Square), it's right next to the universities, main shopping street/centre, council offices, and RVI just as some examples.

Aye guess, it depends how much padding it has. 12 minutes from Northumberland Park seems quite a long time so feels like there's some fitted in there. That's all unknown though, plenty other places where they seem to work in harmony. Mind the fact that they must be Class 158's will help though with their faster acceleration etc and will keep up with the express services anyway - don't believe it's anywhere near 125mph along that stretch anyway.

The bigger point it though, is though if you started work at 8am, getting the train in at 7.36 (leaves Ashington at 7am), would be a pretty safe bet, using the same bus you'd be looking at 06.09 which get's in at 07:15 as getting a bus in at 07:45 is just too risky. Gap starts to widen a bit then, even with the 15 minute walk.

That dilemma used to be a BIG problem for me personally when I used to go college using the 363/X4 (now X7) as it used to be similar times and in the end I just gave up and ended up getting a lift to Northumberland Park and getting the Metro in. The times, have never changed either. I know there's quite a few people who do similar who work in Newcastle aswell.

Like using it today, for a 9am start it would be either the 07:23 bus or the 08:17 train and both had a walk as I'd just be doing it in Newcastle if using the bus instead. The train would win without a doubt for me. Obviously if you work near Haymarket then it starts to twist in the bus favour.

(20 Feb 2024, 2:49 pm)mb134 wrote I'm not too sure, some of the timings look very tight and obviously it's all coordinated at the Newcastle end to ensure no disruption to the ECML services which will 100% get priority. There is at least one train (1148 ex Newcastle) which is timed to stop at Benton to allow something to pass, but has no time to actually do so. 

Even in your example of the X22 the main area of housing there is around Fallowfield, which is a 15+ minute walk to the train station. So you're already looking at it being nearly one hour into Central on a train which is less frequent and a hefty walk in the rain (we're in England after all). 

To be fair to Haymarket (and Eldon Square), it's right next to the universities, main shopping street/centre, council offices, and RVI just as some examples. 

Assuming they've done their research and business case planning, there must be a big chunk that aren't travelling to/from that part of town.
Enough to justify spending millions on a new line at least.

(20 Feb 2024, 4:14 pm)Andreos1 wrote Assuming they've done their research and business case planning, there must be a big chunk that aren't travelling to/from that part of town.
Enough to justify spending millions on a new line at least.

In fairness, I'd imagine a fair chunk will be people who hate buses but don't mind trains. The same people that everytime there's a Metro closure jump straight into their car rather than using the bus replacement which usually carts around fresh air.

Bebside for example, wouldn't be bad for people from the likes of Newbiggin, drive your car for 5 minutes hoy it in the car park and get on the train for 25 minutes. It's certainly better than the 2 weeks on the X21 or sitting in traffic jams at Moor Farm / Coast Road / South Gosforth / Cowgate - take your pick driving in.

(20 Feb 2024, 3:52 pm)Storx wrote Aye guess, it depends how much padding it has. 12 minutes from Northumberland Park seems quite a long time so feels like there's some fitted in there. That's all unknown though, plenty other places where they seem to work in harmony. Mind the fact that they must be Class 158's will help though with their faster acceleration etc and will keep up with the express services anyway - don't believe it's anywhere near 125mph along that stretch anyway.

The bigger point it though, is though if you started work at 8am, getting the train in at 7.36 (leaves Ashington at 7am), would be a pretty safe bet, using the same bus you'd be looking at 06.09 which get's in at 07:15 as getting a bus in at 07:45 is just too risky. Gap starts to widen a bit then, even with the 15 minute walk.

There are multiple posts on the RailUK forums stating that the timetable is very tight, and testing has taken place to see how much time can be saved. Doesn't scream out as a robust timetable, especially given they're sharing the track with freight traffic and the multiple single track sections. 

On the bus thing, that 07:45 arrival into town has been bang on time into town for each day I checked over the past 2 weeks. From experience of using the Arriva Ashington services into town in the peaks, there's time added to ensure they arrive into Haymarket close to/at their scheduled time. Yes the bus might not turn up, but similarly we're more than accustomed to trains not turning up in this country.

(21 Feb 2024, 11:23 am)mb134 wrote There are multiple posts on the RailUK forums stating that the timetable is very tight, and testing has taken place to see how much time can be saved. Doesn't scream out as a robust timetable, especially given they're sharing the track with freight traffic and the multiple single track sections. 

On the bus thing, that 07:45 arrival into town has been bang on time into town for each day I checked over the past 2 weeks. From experience of using the Arriva Ashington services into town in the peaks, there's time added to ensure they arrive into Haymarket close to/at their scheduled time. Yes the bus might not turn up, but similarly we're more than accustomed to trains not turning up in this country.

Aye seen the RailUK posts, who knows tbh. We could speculate all day as we clearly have different opinions, one of us will be right or we could be both wrong with the trains, packed from people who never used public transport at all and the buses are barely impacted.

If anything, it will be the X21 that will take the hit when Bedlington Station opens, not forgetting customers in Newbiggin who will most like take the X21/35 into Ashington then the train the rest of the way.

X20 on paper could take a hit, I'd probably say more so at the peak times given the fact the train will actually take 37 minutes and not risk getting stuck in traffic. On an unrelated note, could possibly allow the X93/X94 to finally get sorted if the X20 only warrants single decks as a result.

Worst case for the X21/X22, they'll go down to every 30 mins.

Also, last train at 22:16 is rather poor to be honest especially on match nights. Around 22:45 or ideally, after 11pm would be far better. Plus I doubt anyone will want Ashington to Newcastle after 10.30pm unless been pre-drinking on a Friday / Saturday.

Nobody knows what will happen at the moment, we will only find out when the line opens. I hope it’s an outstanding success considering the amount of money being spent. I would like to think a lot of motorists will convert to the train which will help with congestion. I’m not sure you will get many people catching a bus to Ashington bus station then walking to the station to catch a train, unless an interchange is being built. Then people will consider where they want to be in Newcastle, Haymarket or Central? 
Reducing bus services will not help passengers travelling locally in Ashington or even those catching a train to Ashington then missing their onward bus. It will be an interesting time when it opens. 
I travelled on the Okehampton to Exeter line last year and was very impressed. All trains were busy, however I’m not sure what the buses to Exeter were like  before that and all dedicated connecting minibuses from the station didn’t seem to carry many people.

As for Bedlington Station......if Arriva re-routed the X21 back via Hartford Road (40 mins instead of 45 via Nedderton), would only be 8 minutes slower than the train.

Also, could there be scope for the X9 route to do the X10 route between Shankhouse & Newcastle? Again, could make it competitive from Bebside.

Only issue with both of the above is which secondary services could pick up the slack

(23 Feb 2024, 2:49 pm)L469 YVK wrote Also, could there be scope for the X9 route to do the X10 route between Shankhouse & Newcastle? Again, could make it competitive from Bebside.

Once it's finished I imagine the X9 will go through the new Arcot Manor/Foxton Mill (/whatever else the developers want to name their bits) estate which is going to be absolutely massive. The stops there are already very popular, so I can see that being a very busy section of route and I don't see any benefit in removing the service from it.

(23 Feb 2024, 2:49 pm)L469 YVK wrote As for Bedlington Station......if Arriva re-routed the X21 back via Hartford Road (40 mins instead of 45 via Nedderton), would only be 8 minutes slower than the train.

Also, could there be scope for the X9 route to do the X10 route between Shankhouse & Newcastle? Again, could make it competitive from Bebside.

Only issue with both of the above is which secondary services could pick up the slack

Personally I'd be looking at getting arid of the X9 or X10 completely between Blyth and Cramlington, if things really did go Pete Tong.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.12792...?entry=ttu - You could easily merge things together like that if need be.

With then the X9 running the X11 route into Blyth. You could even make the case of having short X10's aswell just running between Cramlington and Horton Drive so Cramlington isn't punished since there's no reason why demand will decrease there. With that new route there, your prioritising the areas which are furthest away from Bebside rather than those closest to it. Bebside station being served by the 1 or 2 to give links from the station to Blyth.

You'd also have the bonus of this new route giving pretty much all of Blyth a link to Newsham station for those who want it.

God help me for mentioning this corridor, you could even make the case for the fast Blyth to Newcastle bus to go via Whitley Bay instead, it's only actually a mile longer and the A193 comes in the direction furthest away from both train stations, Blyth to Cramlington is overbussed imo and if you lose a chunk of the Newcastle traffic there's a debate it's all needed.

(23 Feb 2024, 6:42 pm)Storx wrote God help me for mentioning this corridor, you could even make the case for the fast Blyth to Newcastle bus to go via Whitley Bay instead, it's only actually a mile longer and the A193 comes in the direction furthest away from both train stations, Blyth to Cramlington is overbussed imo and if you lose a chunk of the Newcastle traffic there's a debate it's all needed.

I think looking at the forthcoming timetables on Traveline, it might become a reality soon as I don't think more time can be added to the 308 & 309 without further increasing PVR. But that's another debate.

(24 Feb 2024, 10:13 am)L469 YVK wrote I think looking at the forthcoming timetables on Traveline, it might become a reality soon as I don't think more time can be added to the 308 & 309 without further increasing PVR. But that's another debate.

Aye I know this is the total wrong place for this debate - sorry but imo I'd always think the idea of an express bus say maybe Newcastle <> Silverlink - Cobalt - Rake Lane - Whitley Bay - Seaton Sluice - Blyth wouldn't be the worst idea. At the same time terminate all the 308/309 buses short at Whitley Bay, it's absolutely overbussed between Blyth and Whitley Bay and whatever time I see the buses during the day including peaks, the buses are mostly completely dead.

The resources saved by curtailing the 6 buses short would no doubt cover the express anyway. This would help the X7/X8 aswell since it's completely overbussed between South Beach and Blyth aswell. Not to mention they could avoid the chaos around the Spanish City depending where they're terminated.

There's more buses between Blyth and Seaton Sluice (8) than there is between Newcastle and Low Fell (7) now, it's absolutely bonkers.

(23 Feb 2024, 6:42 pm)Storx wrote Personally I'd be looking at getting arid of the X9 or X10 completely between Blyth and Cramlington, if things really did go Pete Tong.

I'm struggling to see how a train that doesn't link Blyth with Cramlington would impact travel between the two largest towns in Northumberland?

(24 Feb 2024, 11:56 am)mb134 wrote I'm struggling to see how a train that doesn't link Blyth with Cramlington would impact travel between the two largest towns in Northumberland?

I'd personally make the argument if you merged the X9 and X10 routes so it was something like: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.08589...?entry=ttu, what I posted before.

You're not really reducing the number of buses, most people only had 2 buses then, and they still only have 2 buses after. Yes there's less buses between Blyth Town Centre and Cramlington Manor Walks direct, but how many buses is there really needed? I'd imagine most people are getting on inbetween. It might help the X8 aswell since that and the X9 (current X11) would be the 'express' route between the two instead. The time savings on the X9 could then be used as layover on the X7/X8/X9 to try and get a grip on the mess of those services.

Heck you could even make the case for that new route being 3 BPH throughout and actually increase the number of buses for most people, it's probably a feasible move and would be PVR neutral if I'm right. Bebside and the 10 houses there have a train station now.

(24 Feb 2024, 12:11 pm)Storx wrote I'd personally make the argument if you merged the X9 and X10 routes so it was something like: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.08589...?entry=ttu, what I posted before.

You'd actually increase the number of buses from Blyth to Cramlington. If there's a big drop from Newcastle to Blyth then you wouldn't need 4 BPH doing the Cramlington to Newcastle section, and 3 BPH would be more than enough, run that throughout you've reduced the number of buses on the whole route but in fact you're actually increasing the frequency to 3 BPH from 2 BPH for most people, there's few negatives really bar the small section of Newsham Road being unserved and it's a slightly longer journey time for some to Blyth (but who the hell wants to go there anyway).

Personally if I lived on those routes, especially in the Cowpen area, I'd be happy with that change as it's positive yet reducing the PVR imo, I wouldn't give a damn about going around some fields near Bedlington or Boghouses, even if the train didn't exist tbh.

You could then turn the X8/X9 (current X11) into the direct Blyth to Cramlington services instead which might help those two services rather than the X8 kind of just existing as it does now.

Using current timings between points on your route, I get the following as times on your combined X9/10:
Blyth to Cowpen 7 mins
Cowpen to Newsham Road 13 mins
Newsham Road to Laverock 10 mins

Since it then also goes via Horton Drive on your route, that's another additional 5 mins between Newsham and Cramlington Shops vs the current X10. 

Total time from Blyth Bus Station to Cramlington Shops of 47 minutes. 

The X10 currently does it in 28 minutes, even the X9 manages it in 39 minutes. How is slowing the journey down by between 8-19 minutes better for anyone?

(24 Feb 2024, 12:52 pm)mb134 wrote Using current timings between points on your route, I get the following as times on your combined X9/10:
Blyth to Cowpen 7 mins
Cowpen to Newsham Road 13 mins
Newsham Road to Laverock 10 mins

Since it then also goes via Horton Drive on your route, that's another additional 5 mins between Newsham and Cramlington Shops vs the current X10. 

Total time from Blyth Bus Station to Cramlington Shops of 47 minutes. 

The X10 currently does it in 28 minutes, even the X9 manages it in 39 minutes. How is slowing the journey down by between 8-19 minutes better for anyone?

You'd still have direct alternatives between Blyth Town Centre and Cramlington though? You'd just have to use the X8 and X11 (now X9) instead. 

The X8 only takes 23 minutes between the two, it's by far the fastest of the routes and runs pretty direct and also serves the station - why not use this as a benefit? It's the weakest of the expresses anyway. 

In reality I'd expect that'd be the route that'd get the bullet anyway, why not use it as an advantage rather than it just kinda 'existing' like now. 

You'd also have note the benefit the other way, remember those in the West side of Cramlington or High Pit are currently stuck on the X9 route and have to go on a magical mystery tour around Blyth to get there.

https://www.northumberlandgazette.co.uk/...ium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3rnLGFc_u-aUuSMR1N9IE85HIjaUCFK20MazE5H1WW3O9v-AFRZyE9Ito#Echobox=1708960266-1

434 'branded' ahead of the line re-opening.

(27 Feb 2024, 8:23 am)Andreos1 wrote https://www.northumberlandgazette.co.uk/...ium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3rnLGFc_u-aUuSMR1N9IE85HIjaUCFK20MazE5H1WW3O9v-AFRZyE9Ito#Echobox=1708960266-1

434 'branded' ahead of the line re-opening.

Must be a new record that the branded bus is on the wrong route, 1 day after making a big announcement about it. A route where the bus is totally inappropiate for ironically.

Geoff has been for a ride already

https://youtu.be/y0VY6Q8C4l0?si=O9U4e990WzImofFF

(06 Mar 2024, 7:17 pm)citaro5284 wrote Geoff has been for a ride already

https://youtu.be/y0VY6Q8C4l0?si=O9U4e990WzImofFF

Happy to be proven wrong, but from that video Newsham doesn't look like it'll be ready by summer (they must think so too, otherwise they'd have probably committed to a month by now). Makes you wonder how other stations, such as Bedlington and Bebside, which aren't getting whole new roads built around them are delayed even further.

(06 Mar 2024, 7:17 pm)citaro5284 wrote Geoff has been for a ride already

https://youtu.be/y0VY6Q8C4l0?si=O9U4e990WzImofFF

Fares confirmed there pretty much since it's part of the Metro zones.

Northumberland Park - Zone B
Bebside / Newsham / Seaton Delaval - Zone C
Ashington / Bedlington / Bebside - Zone D

Be interesting to see if Arriva react as the Metro Season Tickets are substantially cheaper than their products, £1,090 vs £793.60 for Blyth and Seaton Delaval, for example. Ashington / Bedlington being unknown yet as there's no pricing for the new Zone D.

Rail Fares for Northumberland Line announced

https://www.northumberland.gov.uk/News/2...xI9__B2_20&mibextid=xfxF2i

How are they meant to make any money from charging £3, I doubt they even needed 158s, two one car 153s would have done it imo

(08 Mar 2024, 10:29 pm)Unber43 wrote How are they meant to make any money from charging £3, I doubt they even needed 158s, two one car 153s would have done it imo

The Class 158's are for technical reasons not capacity.

To be fair I think the focus is out a little, Newbiggin would be a better terminus, but the blinkered thinking has put a dumb end at Ashington.

(09 Mar 2024, 4:52 pm)54APhotography wrote To be fair I think the focus is out a little, Newbiggin would be a better terminus, but the blinkered thinking has put a dumb end at Ashington.

Or even Lynemouth to encourage house-building and growth around that area too. Lots of brownfield sites to potentially use which the line currently runs either adjacent or through.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cl55g4...ocial_Flow&at_campaign_type=owned&at_medium=social&at_link_origin=BBC_Radio_Newcastle&at_ptr_name=facebook_page&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_id=120468C6-287E-11EF-9343-CCC75DA7B0E2&at_format=link&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR22S-goZX13u3hCtOOHp5_rHUvDPis8vzhAfiiStubAj0m-U2Z_Rpl_RJw_aem_AT78eWrJvCQIlWyBqe-2DeUCmF5EreVPsvjhnq3wqnUBERC6blwwO7QiJDA1jidRv9DhYD8ouOQRR5zB-J22LfQB

Talk of an extension