How long does it take to get onto the X10 rota.

Was nearly wiped out by the X21 today (how ironic) at the roundabout for the new retail park in Tindale. I was pulling out from the retail park and a NIS X21 comes barrelling along the bypass past the football club and doesn't bother to give way. Literally had to slam the brakes on in the middle of the roundabout to avoid hitting it.

Even more ironically, from the small glimpse I got of the driver I believe I've seen them before training other drivers!

The 3/4/2024 17:00 X21 Newcastle-Bishop Aukland trip had a bit of a issue when the young driver seemed to have a hiccup at the roundabout at J63 to CLS and instead the bus ended up doing a extra trip to J62 and going straight to Durham bus station where the impacted passengers were directed to 21 and X21 northbound services at the set down before they entered the bus station. A slightly older GNE driver/trainer was on board (who boarded at Gateshead) who apologised for the issues an told the affected passengers what to do, which was a good thing. We all make mistakes, but it seems like the newest drivers are very young and should not be thrown in the deep end before they gain some experience tbh.

(04 Jul 2024, 12:05 am)solsburian wrote The 3/4/2024 17:00 X21 Newcastle-Bishop Aukland trip had a bit of a issue when the young driver seemed to have a hiccup at the roundabout at J63 to CLS and instead the bus ended up doing a extra trip to J62 and going straight to Durham bus station where the impacted passengers were directed to 21 and X21 northbound services at the set down before they entered the bus station. A slightly older GNE driver/trainer was on board (who boarded at Gateshead) who apologised for the issues an told the affected passengers what to do, which was a good thing. We all make mistakes, but it seems like the newest drivers are very young and should not be thrown in the deep end before they gain some experience tbh.

Not sure there's many depots with minibus rotas anymore, so they get thrown in on the big bus routes immediately.

I've noticed a lot of young drivers in Sunderland thrown straight onto peak 60s, 20s and 56s and its not the best.

All drivers operate all services (bar scholars) at Sunderland depot. It is the same at Washington depot.

Do you need to be a special type of driver to drive the scholars bus??!!

(05 Jul 2024, 2:51 pm)Rob44 wrote Do you need to be a special type of driver to drive the scholars bus??!!

I believe only Durham require an enhanced DBS check to work on scholars, it's down to the bus companies own checks on services in T&W for scholars.

(05 Jul 2024, 2:51 pm)Rob44 wrote Do you need to be a special type of driver to drive the scholars bus??!!

Durham you need an enhanced DBS, completion of a safeguarding course and a badge.

Tyne and Wear, nothing additional is needed so technically any driver could cover it. However, how many of them would actually want to is another matter entirely.

The younger drivers are a little more cautious and seem obsessed with perfectly lining up with a bus stop.

Big fan of the older guys, foot down, chasing yellow traffic lights, find passengers an irritant and a special grunt as you leave the bus

(05 Jul 2024, 7:55 pm)morritt89 wrote Durham you need an enhanced DBS, completion of a safeguarding course and a badge.

Tyne and Wear, nothing additional is needed so technically any driver could cover it. However, how many of them would actually want to is another matter entirely.

Only right.
Are you not required to have a DBS when getting a job?

(06 Jul 2024, 9:05 am)idiot wrote Only right.
Are you not required to have a DBS when getting a job?

A standard DBS check is part of the pre-employment check that Go North East does for all its drivers (and is a Nexus contract stipulation for their secured school bus services).

Only Durham County Council insist upon an Enhanced DBS check for their contracts.

Thanks for the reply.

But Safeguarding training should be introduced to all drivers - they come into so many children and potential vunerable adults everyday,

Hopefully you meant to say - they come into CONTACT with so ...

I'll get my coat !

Haha.. Yes contact with!

(05 Jul 2024, 10:33 pm)Ambassador wrote The younger drivers are a little more cautious and seem obsessed with perfectly lining up with a bus stop.

Big fan of the older guys, foot down, chasing yellow traffic lights, find passengers an irritant and a special grunt as you leave the bus

As one of the older ones, Your Welcome 

Just an addendum to this thread.

I was on a Go North East bus late this morning when an incident occurred (the details of which I'll be intentionally vague with, just in case any of the sadcases working at GNE with nothing better to do while stealing a living try to engage their brains and pursue). Following this incident, which was really but a minor transgression, the driver, easily old enough to be my parent, came to wait their time on stand in a bus station. From here, they called the depot and spoke with the Operations Supervisors (formerly Leading Drivers) on duty, from whom they appeared to receive a mouthful of what I can only assume was their idea of corrective coaching for going against the procedure in an instance such as this. 

Shortly thereafter, they asked all passengers to alight and look for alternative passage pending the arrival of a yardman, which we all complied with. I hovered in the vicinity, and noticed that they were overcome with emotion. I let myself back on through the exterior door control and sat down to chat with them, if nothing else than just to lend an ear. They were visibly shaking like a leaf and struggling to articulate themself. They advised me that they had only been driving for a few months.

Now, while I have no doubt that this individual probably entered company service in good faith, they were more likely than not catfished by the bullshit Elite Driver Academy advertisements forced down our throats. Indeed, they indicated this matter to have been their first incident and that they were completely unprepared and uninformed as to the correct protocols to follow - to me, quite a damning indictment of how some of these recruits have been raced through the school like battery-farmed chickens, then thrown in the deep end and expected to swim. Perhaps most concerning of all, I was left with the distinct impression that my brief discussion with them was very likely the most concern anybody had shown for their wellbeing in the time since they joined the business.

(02 Sep 2024, 4:16 pm)R852 PRG wrote Just an addendum to this thread.

I was on a Go North East bus late this morning when an incident occurred (the details of which I'll be intentionally vague with, just in case any of the sadcases working at GNE with nothing better to do while stealing a living try to engage their brains and pursue). Following this incident, which was really but a minor transgression, the driver, easily old enough to be my parent, came to wait their time on stand in a bus station. From here, they called the depot and spoke with the Operations Supervisors (formerly Leading Drivers) on duty, from whom they appeared to receive a mouthful of what I can only assume was their idea of corrective coaching for going against the procedure in an instance such as this. 

Shortly thereafter, they asked all passengers to alight and look for alternative passage pending the arrival of a yardman, which we all complied with. I hovered in the vicinity, and noticed that they were overcome with emotion. I let myself back on through the exterior door control and sat down to chat with them, if nothing else than just to lend an ear. They were visibly shaking like a leaf and struggling to articulate themself. They advised me that they had only been driving for a few months.

Now, while I have no doubt that this individual probably entered company service in good faith, they were more likely than not catfished by the bullshit Elite Driver Academy advertisements forced down our throats. Indeed, they indicated this matter to have been their first incident and that they were completely unprepared and uninformed as to the correct protocols to follow - to me, quite a damning indictment of how some of these recruits have been raced through the school like battery-farmed chickens, then thrown in the deep end and expected to swim. Perhaps most concerning of all, I was left with the distinct impression that my brief discussion with them was very likely the most concern anybody had shown for their wellbeing in the time since they joined the business.

unfortunately this seems to be the way the company is going. "upstairs" is a slow rot, rapidly being infilled by graduates and friends of featham.

some graduates are landing very senior depot roles, often with experience barely touching a year. it's very surreal seeing these people completely twisting disciplinary policies and putting staff through gross misconduct hearings for things that only justify minor or serious. the same graduates think it's reasonable to lecture drivers with hundreds upon thousands of hours experience on their driving styles, when they themselves only have the bare minimum from training school and the occasional special event duty...

several operations supervisors, as they're now known, appear to have got the jobs by just being mates with whoever the GM or OM is, and will adopt their style and power trip in their orange hi-vis. the position is meant to support the drivers, and in turn the service, however as you saw secondhand, they dont. from foul-mouthed rants towards drivers on Blink - i recall several drivers being threatened with midnight pizza deliveries and waking up with a horses head next to them, to others just shouting and swearing when anything doesn't go to plan, i've seen them get away with pretty much everything whilst drivers get crapped on.

(02 Sep 2024, 4:16 pm)R852 PRG wrote Just an addendum to this thread.

I was on a Go North East bus late this morning when an incident occurred (the details of which I'll be intentionally vague with, just in case any of the sadcases working at GNE with nothing better to do while stealing a living try to engage their brains and pursue). Following this incident, which was really but a minor transgression, the driver, easily old enough to be my parent, came to wait their time on stand in a bus station. From here, they called the depot and spoke with the Operations Supervisors (formerly Leading Drivers) on duty, from whom they appeared to receive a mouthful of what I can only assume was their idea of corrective coaching for going against the procedure in an instance such as this. 

Shortly thereafter, they asked all passengers to alight and look for alternative passage pending the arrival of a yardman, which we all complied with. I hovered in the vicinity, and noticed that they were overcome with emotion. I let myself back on through the exterior door control and sat down to chat with them, if nothing else than just to lend an ear. They were visibly shaking like a leaf and struggling to articulate themself. They advised me that they had only been driving for a few months.

Now, while I have no doubt that this individual probably entered company service in good faith, they were more likely than not catfished by the bullshit Elite Driver Academy advertisements forced down our throats. Indeed, they indicated this matter to have been their first incident and that they were completely unprepared and uninformed as to the correct protocols to follow - to me, quite a damning indictment of how some of these recruits have been raced through the school like battery-farmed chickens, then thrown in the deep end and expected to swim. Perhaps most concerning of all, I was left with the distinct impression that my brief discussion with them was very likely the most concern anybody had shown for their wellbeing in the time since they joined the business.

A lot of management roles come straight from university/college with no experience to the bus industry, ( no bus driving experience at all) . Many years ago when I first came into the industry, a driver worked his/her way up the ladder ( so to speak) not straight into management roles from school

(03 Sep 2024, 12:50 am)Northern Spirit wrote unfortunately this seems to be the way the company is going. "upstairs" is a slow rot, rapidly being infilled by graduates and friends of featham.

some graduates are landing very senior depot roles, often with experience barely touching a year. it's very surreal seeing these people completely twisting disciplinary policies and putting staff through gross misconduct hearings for things that only justify minor or serious. the same graduates think it's reasonable to lecture drivers with hundreds upon thousands of hours experience on their driving styles, when they themselves only have the bare minimum from training school and the occasional special event duty...

several operations supervisors, as they're now known, appear to have got the jobs by just being mates with whoever the GM or OM is, and will adopt their style and power trip in their orange hi-vis. the position is meant to support the drivers, and in turn the service, however as you saw secondhand, they dont. from foul-mouthed rants towards drivers on Blink - i recall several drivers being threatened with midnight pizza deliveries and waking up with a horses head next to them, to others just shouting and swearing when anything doesn't go to plan, i've seen them get away with pretty much everything whilst drivers get crapped on.

I've said it before, but there does seem to be a really problematic disciplinary culture within the bus industry. Especially within the larger operators. Within Go North East, from the stories I read and hear, it appears to have become completely toxic under the current leadership. Would be interested to hear views from current or ex-drivers on whether it's always been this way (across the board, not specifically GNE), or whether there's something in the more recent times that has triggered it?

Whilst I think it's natural for a manager to build a good team around them, it appears to be all friends together at GNE. I don't dismiss the benefit of graduates, but I'm not sure how the scheme would ever be fulfilling for them, if you've got their current situation of people with zero experience trying to mentor people with zero experience.

Some of the stuff you mention, like trumping up disciplinary charges, should be seen as bang out of order. It's really up to the unions to step in at this point and force the company to do something about it. It also sounds like on the company side, if they're going to persevere with inexperienced managers, they could do with a good experienced people manager to lead a HR function. I'll not hold my breath though, unless Featham has a long-lost cousin who works in HR or something.

(03 Sep 2024, 7:50 am)Retro Nero wrote A lot of management roles come straight from university/college with no experience to the bus industry, ( no bus driving experience at all) . Many years ago when I first came into the industry, a driver worked his/her way up the ladder ( so to speak) not straight into management roles from school

I think the world has changed though, in that respect, but I think you still need to have a good mix of talent. You should never be afraid to promote and develop from your shop floor, and indeed I think some of your best managers are the ones that understand the business inside out. I do think there's a place for management graduates to come in and have a positive impact on the business, but it needs to be with a fulfilling graduate scheme, seeing them learn all aspects of the business, and mentored for a number of years by good experienced managers.

As a former driver at both Arriva and Go North East I would say disciplinary action is fairy common even for matters which I would class as trivial and could be sorted out with a quick chat. I would also say when people get promoted (drivers to managers) that person seems to all of a sudden forget what it was like to be a driver. I will give a couple of examples from my past:

Arriva I was driving and my light was on green. Quick check to my right and I noticed this car that was flying along the road to my right so I slowed down (I was in a line of moving traffic with cars in front and behind). Surely enough this car over took the cars waiting at his red light on the wrong side of the road and came through the lights at a fairly high speed. I had to brake and swerve to avoid being wiped out. I clipped the railings to my left with the middle of my bus. There was a few scratches but I could carry on. I reported this and surely enough I had a disciplinary with a new graduate manager. She suggested I go back to the driving school for a week and that as a professional driver I should have expected the car driver to do that (the professional driver bit is used quite a lot by managers). I spoke to the depot manager at the time and he sided with me and said no further action and that the graduate was 'over the top.'

Second incident was at GNE. I was sent home by a manager for being unwell. He stopped me returning to work the next day so I returned after the weekend, my next working day. Middle of the yard, in front of everyone, he gave me a formal warning disciplinary for my attendance because he sent me home. The previous time that I was off sick was because I had an operation on my back. This had to be investigated by a manager to make sure I want lying (all my medical records and letters provided and occupational health stopped me returning as my wound had not healed fully). I was under investigation for around 1 week for this. The union, in all these instances, were very supportive.

There is definitely a them and us feeling I would say between managers and drivers. Some managers are better than others and do make the effort. Others come out in a rash if they have to leave their desks. It spoils what can be a decent job and in turn reduces morale and probably has a lot to do with staff retention and ongoing recruitment. As stated above, this is industry wide and not company specific. I loved my job but no amount of money could get me back now.

Those examples above are a disgrace, espically in front of everyone.

morritt89

TBH i think it like that in any job. I don't work in the bus industry but when people get promoted here you can see the change in there mentality - its as if they were never where you are!

(03 Sep 2024, 4:49 pm)Rob44 wrote morritt89

TBH i think it like that in any job. I don't work in the bus industry but when people get promoted here you can see the change in there mentality - its as if they were never where you are!

I disagree there. Seen lots of people get promoted and actually show good understanding for their staff once they've moved up. Maybe it depends on the industry you're in, I guess quite often it depends on the person who's been promoted.

(02 Sep 2024, 4:16 pm)R852 PRG wrote Just an addendum to this thread.

I was on a Go North East bus late this morning when an incident occurred (the details of which I'll be intentionally vague with, just in case any of the sadcases working at GNE with nothing better to do while stealing a living try to engage their brains and pursue). Following this incident, which was really but a minor transgression, the driver, easily old enough to be my parent, came to wait their time on stand in a bus station. From here, they called the depot and spoke with the Operations Supervisors (formerly Leading Drivers) on duty, from whom they appeared to receive a mouthful of what I can only assume was their idea of corrective coaching for going against the procedure in an instance such as this. 

Shortly thereafter, they asked all passengers to alight and look for alternative passage pending the arrival of a yardman, which we all complied with. I hovered in the vicinity, and noticed that they were overcome with emotion. I let myself back on through the exterior door control and sat down to chat with them, if nothing else than just to lend an ear. They were visibly shaking like a leaf and struggling to articulate themself. They advised me that they had only been driving for a few months.

Now, while I have no doubt that this individual probably entered company service in good faith, they were more likely than not catfished by the bullshit Elite Driver Academy advertisements forced down our throats. Indeed, they indicated this matter to have been their first incident and that they were completely unprepared and uninformed as to the correct protocols to follow - to me, quite a damning indictment of how some of these recruits have been raced through the school like battery-farmed chickens, then thrown in the deep end and expected to swim. Perhaps most concerning of all, I was left with the distinct impression that my brief discussion with them was very likely the most concern anybody had shown for their wellbeing in the time since they joined the business.

My main concern here would be the mental health of the driver in these situations, and how it evidently isn't being helped by the current culture at GNE. A driver continuing to drive after an incident cannot be safe for them, their passengers, or other road users. You then have to assume that anyone doing so is under pressure, which will only amplify any negatives to an already risky situation. A senior management team which allows the creation of that sort of environment, especially when they are in a business which is literally responsible for the safety of thousands of people on a daily basis, are not fit to hold those positions. Of course there needs to be accountability and discipline when required, but there is a balance to be had and creating a culture of fear is wholly irresponsible.

I've been on vehicles of other large NE operators (and elsewhere in the country) when 'incidents' have occurred, and in each instance it has been abundantly clear that the driver had been trained on exactly what to do in each situation. I don't believe, from what you have described, that the driver intentionally broke procedure in this instance and likely wasn't sure on what it was - someone who blatantly goes against a procedure isn't going to feel as bad as they did so shortly afterwards. Therefore it points to an issue with the actual delivery of the information at some stage, but then isn't that an issue across the company right now? Ineffective people in positions they shouldn't be in, making poor decisions because they don't have the experience or capability to make the right ones. One way or another, the people working on the front line to earn the money which funds the management's massively inflated salaries are the ones to suffer.

(03 Sep 2024, 7:20 pm)PH - BQA wrote My main concern here would be the mental health of the driver in these situations, and how it evidently isn't being helped by the current culture at GNE. A driver continuing to drive after an incident cannot be safe for them, their passengers, or other road users. You then have to assume that anyone doing so is under pressure, which will only amplify any negatives to an already risky situation. A senior management team which allows the creation of that sort of environment, especially when they are in a business which is literally responsible for the safety of thousands of people on a daily basis, are not fit to hold those positions. Of course there needs to be accountability and discipline when required, but there is a balance to be had and creating a culture of fear is wholly irresponsible.

I've been on vehicles of other large NE operators (and elsewhere in the country) when 'incidents' have occurred, and in each instance it has been abundantly clear that the driver had been trained on exactly what to do in each situation. I don't believe, from what you have described, that the driver intentionally broke procedure in this instance and likely wasn't sure on what it was - someone who blatantly goes against a procedure isn't going to feel as bad as they did so shortly afterwards. Therefore it points to an issue with the actual delivery of the information at some stage, but then isn't that an issue across the company right now? Ineffective people in positions they shouldn't be in, making poor decisions because they don't have the experience or capability to make the right ones. One way or another, the people working on the front line to earn the money which funds the management's massively inflated salaries are the ones to suffer.

This isn't a new thing. It's not unique to the current culture. 

However, it is up to the current management team to stop it. Not let it continue.

The general culture at some operators is pretty toxic by all accounts, and the anecdotes on here back what I've heard privately. Some new drivers working overtime given lefts and rights on a piece of paper for routes they've never driver. Awful behaviour.

If you are an operator and you hire a drive  you have no real way of knowing what that person is really like. Yes, if they've come from another company, "the grapevine" kicks in, but you can't judge somebody's character on heresay.

So when a complaint comes in about a driver, how is company supposed to deal with it?

What would happen if a driver was subject to complaint about shouting at kids (justified or not), the manager has a "quiet word" and then a couple of weeks later the same driver leaves a bunch of kids at a stop? The manager is for the high jump as they didn't deal with the first complaint properly.

On the flip side, what if a driver has received a complaint about early running, the manager issues disciplinary action, but the ticket machine data is actually proven to be incorrect as the stop is geocoded in the wrong place. The driver loses all faith in the process.

In some ways, i kind of understand why grad drones are used, as they have no loyalties to begin with. Just see things in black and white. But It's a very fine line and I don't envy drivers or those managers that actually try and do the right thing when faced with some of the complaints they receive.

Thankfully they are very rare, but I know of one driver a couple of years back that committed an offence that got them sacked and could have resulted in them losing a licence, and they thought they were hard done by! The sort of person that bigs themselves up and attracts a crowd. They don't help either, because some other drivers listen to that and think everything is against them, when in fact it was one pillock doing something daft and was rightly sacked.

Scania 5244 (I think) could be 5246 is now in training fleet Yellow

Currently on 20. Driving mentor observing erratic driving.

A curious observation in Chester-le-Street this morning was 6156 operating a Newcastle-bound 210 service to Horden Hall.