So the 44 could be Dinnington - Hazlerogg - Wideopen (Great North Road) - Gosforth - West Jesmond (Great North Road) - Haymarket - Newcastle General Hospital from September? Would this mean a weekend service on the current 47 route?

I'm convinced something must be replacing the 553. Maybe the 44 as well?

Any idea of frequency, timetable or journey times on the X16?

---

So the 44 could be Dinnington - Hazlerigg - Wideopen (Great North Road) - Gosforth - West Jesmond (Great North Road) - Haymarket - Newcastle General Hospital from September? Would this mean a weekend service on the current 47 route?

I'm convinced something must be replacing the 553. Maybe the 44 as well?

Any idea of frequency, timetable or journey times on the X16?

---

So the 44 could be Dinnington - Hazlerigg - Wideopen (Great North Road) - Gosforth - West Jesmond (Great North Road) - Haymarket - Newcastle General Hospital from September? Would this mean a weekend service on the current 47 route?

I'm convinced something must be replacing the 553. Maybe the 44 as well?

Any idea of frequency, timetable or journey times on the X16?

When I was working at the Freeman, I'm sure I remember hearing that Arriva only had the contract for the 553 for another year. If that's the case, then it would make sense that maybe Arriva won't be running it from September if either they've decided to walk away, or the Hospital Trust has found a cheaper option.

I think it could be possible that they might look to tag the 47 onto the end of the 44 route. Supposedly they need to make sure the new electric buses are on the routes they were funded for, so that would make sense if they have to make changes to boards for that. I think there is 0% chance the 44 will be rerouted to take on the 553 route though.

(20 Jul 2024, 8:46 pm)Shrek wrote When I was working at the Freeman, I'm sure I remember hearing that Arriva only had the contract for the 553 for another year. If that's the case, then it would make sense that maybe Arriva won't be running it from September if either they've decided to walk away, or the Hospital Trust has found a cheaper option.

I think it could be possible that they might look to tag the 47 onto the end of the 44 route. Supposedly they need to make sure the new electric buses are on the routes they were funded for, so that would make sense if they have to make changes to boards for that. I think there is 0% chance the 44 will be rerouted to take on the 553 route though.

Ah, okay. Thanks for that. So the NHS 553 branded Pulsar 1499 will be repainted into Journey Mark? Presumably the 553 route will continue to exist, possibly as the 653. 

I thought Arriva had already sorted out the 43/44/45/47 interworking pattern for the new electric buses to go on those boards when they arrive. Been interworking for a while. Just merge the 44/47 routes so the 44 will run between Newcastle General Hospital and Dinnington? 43 and 45 will interwork with the 44 still? New BZLs for this group of services? Coming Spring next year?

(20 Jul 2024, 8:46 pm)Shrek wrote When I was working at the Freeman, I'm sure I remember hearing that Arriva only had the contract for the 553 for another year. If that's the case, then it would make sense that maybe Arriva won't be running it from September if either they've decided to walk away, or the Hospital Trust has found a cheaper option.

I think it could be possible that they might look to tag the 47 onto the end of the 44 route. Supposedly they need to make sure the new electric buses are on the routes they were funded for, so that would make sense if they have to make changes to boards for that. I think there is 0% chance the 44 will be rerouted to take on the 553 route though.

Personally I can't see the 44 and 47 being merged as it would completely break the interworking pattern at Haymarket.

Remember it's:
43 -> 44 -> 45 -> 43 or 43 -> 45 -> 44 -> 43

Doing:
43 -> 45 -> 44 -> 44 -> 45 -> 43 -> 43 -> 43, just wouldn't work at all.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see the H and 47 merged personally, not sure the Haymarket links are really needed when there's the 36 doing the link. The H badly needs a frequency upgrade through the core though.

(20 Jul 2024, 9:01 pm)Storx wrote Personally I can't see the 44 and 47 being merged as it would completely break the interworking pattern at Haymarket.

Remember it's:
43 -> 44 -> 45 -> 43 or 43 -> 45 -> 44 -> 43

Doing:
43 -> 45 -> 44 -> 44 -> 45 -> 43 -> 43 -> 43, just wouldn't work at all.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see the H and 47 merged personally, not sure the Haymarket links are really needed when there's the 36 doing the link. The H badly needs a frequency upgrade through the core though.

But the H is for NHS staff only, so does that mean the merged H/47 would be NHS staff only? 

Given Arriva have purchased a new bus for the 47, I assume they are still operating it? 

Any route or timetable changes on the 392?

(20 Jul 2024, 9:10 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote But the H is for NHS staff only, so does that mean the merged H/47 would be NHS staff only? 

Given Arriva have purchased a new bus for the 47, I assume they are still operating it? 

Any route or timetable changes on the 392?

Was just speculation that but yeah it would if they did.

Has anyone actually confirmed what Arriva has ordered yet? Genuine question as I've never seen nothing announced, there's still 4 missing buses altogether aswell which are totally unaccounted for. Maybe the single might be flipped last minute or alternatively they might gain the extra 4 but I'm unsure what for.

52 Buses Won
----------------------------
20 Buses - Stagecoach (Confirmed 20x Yutong)
14 Buses - Arriva
14 Buses - GoNorthEast
4 Buses - ???

This wasn't won under ZEBRA so assume the moving around things might be a bit more flexible, ie. SNE never bid for the 20 at all which is gaining some.

(20 Jul 2024, 9:15 pm)Storx wrote Was just speculation that but yeah it would if they did.

Has anyone actually confirmed what Arriva has ordered yet? Genuine question as I've never seen nothing announced, there's still 4 missing buses altogether aswell which are totally unaccounted for. Maybe the single might be flipped last minute or alternatively they might gain the extra 4 but I'm unsure what for.

52 Buses Won
----------------------------
20 Buses - Stagecoach (Confirmed 20x Yutong)
14 Buses - Arriva
14 Buses - GoNorthEast
4 Buses - ???

This wasn't won under ZEBRA so assume the moving around things might be a bit more flexible, ie. SNE never bid for the 20 at all which is gaining some.

I'm pretty sure it was confirmed by Dan that Go North East were getting 18 buses rather than the 14 buses mistakenly put in an article or something

(20 Jul 2024, 9:18 pm)Iamtheone8483748 wrote I'm pretty sure it was confirmed by Dan that Go North East were getting 18 buses rather than the 14 buses mistakenly put in an article or something

Ye 18 deckers for the 21 alongside


The 20 confirmed Yutong's are for Sunderland.


---------------------


There's 2 sets of funding:

Zebra 2:


Tees Valley Combined Authority - £7,400,000, 62 buses

Transport North East - £7,400,000, 43 buses

North East total: £14,800,000, 105 buses


Transport North East


14 double deck EVs for Arriva Durham routes 48, 64 and X46

7 double deck and 4 single deck EVs for Go North East routes 58 and X66

18 single deck EVs for Stagecoach routes 30/31/36



Tees Valley Combined Authority

22 for Arriva Darlington route 2/Arriva Redcar route 63

40 for Stagecoach Stockton depot

-------------

Levelling Up Fund:

20 for Stagecoach Sunderland (arriving soon)

13 double-deckers and one single-decker for services 43, 44, 45 and 47 in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Tyneside and Northumberland.

18 double-deckers for the 21.

(20 Jul 2024, 9:00 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Ah, okay. Thanks for that. So the NHS 553 branded Pulsar 1499 will be repainted into Journey Mark? Presumably the 553 route will continue to exist, possibly as the 653. 

I thought Arriva had already sorted out the 43/44/45/47 interworking pattern for the new electric buses to go on those boards when they arrive. Been interworking for a while. Just merge the 44/47 routes so the 44 will run between Newcastle General Hospital and Dinnington? 43 and 45 will interwork with the 44 still? New BZLs for this group of services? Coming Spring next year?

I don't know anything for certain, but I'm certain the hospital contract for the 553 was up this year and it would make sense that either Arriva or the Hospital might have pulled out. If Arriva aren't running the 553, i would suspect that the hospital will find another company to run it as they need a service for staff getting between Regent Point and Freeman. It's not a great one for Arriva to run since Jesmond closed so it makes sense for them not to want to renew.

As for the 47, I'm just guessing. I doubt the H would cover it as that is for hospital staff only and as far as I'm aware is just between Freeman and RVI, so doesn't cover what the 47 is there for. 

The buses for the 43/44/45/47 were from levelling up funding and not Zebra. A couple of Arriva drivers have said they're expected by January 2025 apparently. That is just word of mouth though and I haven't heard it said myself so I'm taking it as gossip for now.

(20 Jul 2024, 9:15 pm)Storx wrote Was just speculation that but yeah it would if they did.

Has anyone actually confirmed what Arriva has ordered yet? Genuine question as I've never seen nothing announced, there's still 4 missing buses altogether aswell which are totally unaccounted for. Maybe the single might be flipped last minute or alternatively they might gain the extra 4 but I'm unsure what for.

52 Buses Won
----------------------------
20 Buses - Stagecoach (Confirmed 20x Yutong)
14 Buses - Arriva
14 Buses - GoNorthEast
4 Buses - ???

This wasn't won under ZEBRA so assume the moving around things might be a bit more flexible, ie. SNE never bid for the 20 at all which is gaining some.

I would be gutted to lose the 47 service. Definitely mostly NHS staff on there anyway though. 

Looking forward to riding the new electric Arriva buses, whatever they are. Even if the 47 is scrapped. 

Good to see Yutongs for SNE, and surprised Peter Hogg have ordered electric ADLs for the X74. 

Hopefully the X16 will be a frequent service and not just replacing the 710. At least a daily return would be ideal for the full route. 

Would Arriva tickets be valid on the 392 or just Nexus day tickets and Day Rovers/Savers?

Thanks for confirming the extra 4, had a feeling it might have been down there.

(20 Jul 2024, 9:41 pm)Shrek wrote I don't know anything for certain, but I'm certain the hospital contract for the 553 was up this year and it would make sense that either Arriva or the Hospital might have pulled out. If Arriva aren't running the 553, i would suspect that the hospital will find another company to run it as they need a service for staff getting between Regent Point and Freeman. It's not a great one for Arriva to run since Jesmond closed so it makes sense for them not to want to renew.

As for the 47, I'm just guessing. I doubt the H would cover it as that is for hospital staff only and as far as I'm aware is just between Freeman and RVI, so doesn't cover what the 47 is there for. 

The buses for the 43/44/45/47 were from levelling up funding and not Zebra. A couple of Arriva drivers have said they're expected by January 2025 apparently. That is just word of mouth though and I haven't heard it said myself so I'm taking it as gossip for now.

Aye wonder if they might have just reallocated the 47 bus onto the 43 instead, have to remember that the Morpeth to Cramlington area was upped in freqency, can't see anyone complaining about it. The single decker surely has to be scrapped and turned into a decker because whatever option happens here, having 1 random single decker is just stupid interworking with deckers.

(20 Jul 2024, 9:44 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote I would be gutted to lose the 47 service. Definitely mostly NHS staff on there anyway though. 

Looking forward to riding the new electric Arriva buses, whatever they are. Even if the 47 is scrapped. 

Good to see Yutongs for SNE, and surprised Peter Hogg have ordered electric ADLs for the X74. 

Hopefully the X16 will be a frequent service and not just replacing the 710. At least a daily return would be ideal for the full route. 

Would Arriva tickets be valid on the 392 or just Nexus day tickets and Day Rovers/Savers?

Not too sure on the day tickets, they should be but I don't believe there's anything cheaper left now as they scrapped everything in Tyneside, believe only the TNE tickets exist now.

What are the fares on the 710?

(20 Jul 2024, 5:38 pm)Andreos1 wrote Mainly in T&W.
The Derwentside to Newcastle services and the 20A being two examples off the top of my head, where older routes were re-introduced.
Rather than new services, like the airport 777.

Surely BSIP should be continuously reviewed though and withdrawn / reduced when clear commercial growth has been achieved on a funded commercial service such as the X70.

When the Derwentside - Newcastle services were slashed back in 2022, it was a rather knee jerk reaction combined with driver shortages at the time and a rather unreliable set of changes back in Sept 2021.

Effectively, GNE did not give passenger numbers a change to properly recover after COVID and should've waited another 6-12 months before slashing services.

(20 Jul 2024, 8:31 am)NMS26222 wrote Arriva used to operate into Jedburgh from Wooler in the early days, think it was linked to the food factory in the area at the time.

Did this service definitely operate in Arriva Northumbria days? It commenced on 6th September 1993 and operated via Milfield, Coldstream and Kelso. I haven’t got a copy of the timetable for it, but I believe it was allowed 45 minutes for the 35 mile journey. I have no idea when it was withdrawn so do not know if it lasted into Arriva Northumbria days. Services that Arriva Northumbria did operate into Scotland were the 23 (Berwick-Kelso), 36 (Berwick-Eyemouth), 104 (Berwick-Dunbar) and B33 (Berwick-Duns). 23 was operating in the Northumbria Motor Services days and lasted into Arriva ownership. It operated on Saturdays with some school journeys thrown in before being withdrawn on 3rd September 2001. 104 and B33 were schoolday only services that were withdrawn on 5th July 2000. I do not have anything further on 36 but I cannot imagine Arriva continued operating it after Berwick depot closed on Saturday 12 October 2002, assuming they were still operating it at that time.
Interestingly, 32 and 36 were shown on the Traffic Commissioner’s website in 2002 when they started putting registrations on computers. These are two of the legacy registrations that have been cancelled this year.

When are more details likely to be released on the September changes?

https://www.facebook.com/share/oqz9aT6iE...tid=WC7FNe If that link works, the Wooler councillor has posted a copy of the new X16 timetable.

(21 Jul 2024, 5:17 pm)XQ Zero wrote Did this service definitely operate in Arriva Northumbria days? It commenced on 6th September 1993 and operated via Milfield, Coldstream and Kelso. I haven’t got a copy of the timetable for it, but I believe it was allowed 45 minutes for the 35 mile journey. I have no idea when it was withdrawn so do not know if it lasted into Arriva Northumbria days. Services that Arriva Northumbria did operate into Scotland were the 23 (Berwick-Kelso), 36 (Berwick-Eyemouth), 104 (Berwick-Dunbar) and B33 (Berwick-Duns). 23 was operating in the Northumbria Motor Services days and lasted into Arriva ownership. It operated on Saturdays with some school journeys thrown in before being withdrawn on 3rd September 2001. 104 and B33 were schoolday only services that were withdrawn on 5th July 2000. I do not have anything further on 36 but I cannot imagine Arriva continued operating it after Berwick depot closed on Saturday 12 October 2002, assuming they were still operating it at that time.
Interestingly, 32 and 36 were shown on the Traffic Commissioner’s website in 2002 when they started putting registrations on computers. These are two of the legacy registrations that have been cancelled this year.

I’m certain I’ve a cope of an Arriva timetable with a reference to service 571 to Jedburgh. I’ll have a dig through my timetable collection and see what I can find.

So it looks like the X16 is (sort of) replacing the 44 to Stannington.

Heading through the village when going North but only skirting off the sliproad heading South.

(22 Jul 2024, 11:13 pm)NMS26222 wrote https://www.facebook.com/share/oqz9aT6iE...tid=WC7FNe If that link works, the Wooler councillor has posted a copy of the new X16 timetable.

In case the link isn't working for anyone, it appears to be:

M-F: 1x southbound and 1x northbound from/to Wooler in the AM peak (arriving 08:47 into Newcastle) and PM peak (17:03 ex Newcastle). 

Sat: 
0726 Wooler to Kelso
1053 Newcastle to Wooler
1558 Newcastle to Kelso

0819 Kelso to Newcastle
1410 Wooler to Newcastle 
1829 Kelso to Wooler

(21 Jul 2024, 5:17 pm)XQ Zero wrote Did this service definitely operate in Arriva Northumbria days? It commenced on 6th September 1993 and operated via Milfield, Coldstream and Kelso. I haven’t got a copy of the timetable for it, but I believe it was allowed 45 minutes for the 35 mile journey. I have no idea when it was withdrawn so do not know if it lasted into Arriva Northumbria days. Services that Arriva Northumbria did operate into Scotland were the 23 (Berwick-Kelso), 36 (Berwick-Eyemouth), 104 (Berwick-Dunbar) and B33 (Berwick-Duns). 23 was operating in the Northumbria Motor Services days and lasted into Arriva ownership. It operated on Saturdays with some school journeys thrown in before being withdrawn on 3rd September 2001. 104 and B33 were schoolday only services that were withdrawn on 5th July 2000. I do not have anything further on 36 but I cannot imagine Arriva continued operating it after Berwick depot closed on Saturday 12 October 2002, assuming they were still operating it at that time.
Interestingly, 32 and 36 were shown on the Traffic Commissioner’s website in 2002 when they started putting registrations on computers. These are two of the legacy registrations that have been cancelled this year.

I couldn't find any reference to this service in the October 1993 timetable, but did find one in the
 Summer 1998 timetable, by which time Arriva had taken over from Northumbria. [attachment=10774]

(23 Jul 2024, 7:10 am)PH - BQA wrote In case the link isn't working for anyone, it appears to be:

M-F: 1x southbound and 1x northbound from/to Wooler in the AM peak (arriving 08:47 into Newcastle) and PM peak (17:03 ex Newcastle). 

Sat: 
0726 Wooler to Kelso
1053 Newcastle to Wooler
1558 Newcastle to Kelso

0819 Kelso to Newcastle
1410 Wooler to Newcastle 
1829 Kelso to Wooler

Seems like it's a replacement for the 710 aswell noting the comments by the councillor who mentions it's a shame the local firm didn't win. Interesting to note that the Wednesday service, is arguably worse, especially for those North of Wooler.

(24 Jul 2024, 3:23 pm)Storx wrote Seems like it's a replacement for the 710 aswell noting the comments by the councillor who mentions it's a shame the local firm didn't win. Interesting to note that the Wednesday service, is arguably worse, especially for those North of Wooler.

Glen Valley have confirmed that the 710 will end once this starts up.

The way the route is, including the length only really lended itself to being ran by Arriva, given they already run Morpeth to Newcastle stretch and then do local runs on the X16/777 through the day whereas the likes of Glen Valley would either be sat in Newcastle all day doing nothing or would likely have had to add a lengthy trip back to Wooler and back to Newcastle again in afternoon.

Loss of the Wednesday daytime run is a shame, especially for those wanting a shorter day out just to Morpeth (or Wooler).

(24 Jul 2024, 7:03 pm)Jimmi wrote Glen Valley have confirmed that the 710 will end once this starts up.

The way the route is, including the length only really lended itself to being ran by Arriva, given they already run Morpeth to Newcastle stretch and then do local runs on the X16/777 through the day whereas the likes of Glen Valley would either be sat in Newcastle all day doing nothing or would likely have had to add a lengthy trip back to Wooler and back to Newcastle again in afternoon.

Loss of the Wednesday daytime run is a shame, especially for those wanting a shorter day out just to Morpeth (or Wooler).

Aye totally agreed, I believe the Glen Valley currently just extends to the Metrocentre and sits around there all day on a Saturday. 

Not the best use of resources but I suppose if there's a driver who likes the place it wouldn't be the worst trip in the world. 

I couldn't think of anything worse mind.

Any news/rumours on replacements for the 47/553? I'm expecting the H to replace the 47 and the 653 to replace the 553.

(25 Jul 2024, 6:59 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Any news/rumours on replacements for the 47/553? I'm expecting the H to replace the 47 and the 653 to replace the 553.

H won't replace the 47. H is a staff only bus and is needed to get staff quickly between the two hospitals. I would be shocked if they extend the route on it.

(25 Jul 2024, 7:36 pm)Shrek wrote H won't replace the 47. H is a staff only bus and is needed to get staff quickly between the two hospitals. I would be shocked if they extend the route on it.

Regent Centre to C.A.V via Freeman Hospital & R.V.I. Something like that would work

(25 Jul 2024, 7:59 pm)Aaron21 wrote Regent Centre to C.A.V via Freeman Hospital & R.V.I. Something like that would work

The hospital pay for the service and I'd be shocked if the H service changes from what it is now. The quick shuttle between RVI and Freeman is important for staff and adding parts on which will cause delays isn't something they'll want. The H service struggles to keep to time enough as it is.

(25 Jul 2024, 11:29 pm)Shrek wrote The hospital pay for the service and I'd be shocked if the H service changes from what it is now. The quick shuttle between RVI and Freeman is important for staff and adding parts on which will cause delays isn't something they'll want. The H service struggles to keep to time enough as it is.

In a way I wouldn't be surprised if they're not replaced. The NHS is skint to be spending money on duplicate bus services, especially the 47 which shadows the 32/32A and pretty much everything is closed at the General now anyway. 

For the Regent Centre you could easily go one extra stop and change at South Gosforth on the 6/7 or if your coming from Northumberland change onto the 37/52 at Cramlington. 

Not as quick but the NHS hasn't got an unlimited pot of money. The H badly needs to be upped in frequency though.

(26 Jul 2024, 7:29 am)Storx wrote In a way I wouldn't be surprised if they're not replaced. The NHS is skint to be spending money on duplicate bus services, especially the 47 which shadows the 32/32A and pretty much everything is closed at the General now anyway. 

For the Regent Centre you could easily go one extra stop and change at South Gosforth on the 6/7 or if your coming from Northumberland change onto the 37/52 at Cramlington. 

Not as quick but the NHS hasn't got an unlimited pot of money. The H badly needs to be upped in frequency though.

It's all part of their sustainable travel policies though. I guarantee H will stay the same as it is now, I suspect there'll be a Regent Centre to Freeman link in the end. The 47 however is the one I could see being scrapped.

(26 Jul 2024, 7:32 am)Shrek wrote It's all part of their sustainable travel policies though. I guarantee H will stay the same as it is now, I suspect there'll be a Regent Centre to Freeman link in the end. The 47 however is the one I could see being scrapped.

Presumably Regent Centre to Freeman will be a Stagecoach route or the GCT 653 replacing the 553 to restore the Regent Centre to Battle Hill link. The H being staff only is a ridiculous waste of a service.