(27 Jul 2024, 10:12 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote There was three or four days in the middle of June when half the runs were operated by closed top B9s.  Presumably because they have zero spares given the stupid purchase of the non compliant B9s which seem to be spending the summer depreciating in Percy Main depot.  Baffled me why anyone would pay upwards of ten quid to sit on a normal service bus though the runs I saw looked understandably dead - novel approach to driving growth.  You have to wonder what GNE would be like if they ever appointed a competent management team.

---

To be fair in terms of deckers at PM, the 63 plates are the best they've got...

There are obviously going to be times when they need to use an alternative vehicle. But reading the literature for the Toon Tour, there is nothing in it to say that occasionally they may need to use a closed top vehicle. This is standard wording used by every other operator with such a service. Some might see it as a small thing, but it isn't.

(27 Jul 2024, 2:15 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Imagine coming into Newcastle and wanting to see the sights on an advertised open top service, only to be greeted by this piece of trash from Percy Main.

Where are the perception and optics police when you need them?

Except the fact it's not open top, PM's B9TLs are very youthful compared to the rest of the B9TLs and even some of the newer StreetDecks & B5TLs, given they've had relatively charmed lives just pottering around the doors to speak on work that even a StreetDeck could easily handle.

When GNE electrify the 21, wouldn't surprise me if the current StreetDecks ended up on the 307 & 309 with these B9TLs either filling gaps or allowing more leggy B9TLs to take a backseat role (i.e 6043-48 or 6071-85).

(27 Jul 2024, 3:56 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Speaking of which, there's one currently expired in the bus stop at Winlaton Mill when I passed about 10 minutes ago. 

So not only have you got a 'revamped', older vehicle branded for another route, but it's conked out too.

Deary me!

On a serious note......does the X20 given the fact it doesn't run an evening & Sunday service for the full route need X-Lines B5TLs allocated? 

Would be far better dropping the X20 from X-Lines and switching to corporate misc vehicles, with the B5TLs moving to Consett?

Could then have something like:
- X30/X31/X32 & X70/X71/X73 = 12x E400MMC

- X45 = 5x B5TL

- X5/X15 = 2x B5TL & 2x E400MMC

Still leaves 2x E400MMC spare then if any further VORs need covering on the Newcastle services, swap out at Consett with a misc spare.

(28 Jul 2024, 7:47 am)L469 YVK wrote On a serious note......does the X20 given the fact it doesn't run an evening & Sunday service for the full route need X-Lines B5TLs allocated? 

Would be far better dropping the X20 from X-Lines and switching to corporate misc vehicles, with the B5TLs moving to Consett?

Could then have something like:
- X30/X31/X32 & X70/X71/X73 = 12x E400MMC

- X45 = 5x B5TL

- X5/X15 = 2x B5TL & 2x E400MMC

Still leaves 2x E400MMC spare then if any further VORs need covering on the Newcastle services, swap out at Consett with a misc spare.

The X30's and X70's don't need a full decker allocation and they'd be wasted on there. 

There's plenty boards like this one: https://bustimes.org/vehicles/gnel-5496?date=2024-07-25, which miss both peaks in both directions. 

The buses aren't busy outside the peaks whenever I see them. 

A Enviro 400 MMC/Enviro 200 MMC allocation on the Consett expresses is superior to the awful B5's, mind they are wasted on the X20.

6101 and 6116 appear to be on Toon Tour duties today

Luckily it’s not a lovely sunny day….

(28 Jul 2024, 8:30 am)Storx wrote The X30's and X70's don't need a full decker allocation and they'd be wasted on there. 

There's plenty boards like this one: https://bustimes.org/vehicles/gnel-5496?date=2024-07-25, which miss both peaks in both directions. 

The buses aren't busy outside the peaks whenever I see them. 

A Enviro 400 MMC/Enviro 200 MMC allocation on the Consett expresses is superior to the awful B5's, mind they are wasted on the X20.

The problem with the X30/X70 services is that there's far too much dependency on low height double deck vehicles. Taking individual opinions out of which vehicles should be allocated etc and based on the E400MMCs staying at Consett, there'd be a hell of a lot more flexibility with only 4x vehicles needing to be low height.

If the X31 was dropped and X32 increased to 2x PH and swapped in Lobley Hill so that the X70 served the Lobley Hill Estate instead, could go.....

X30 > X71 > X71 > X30 (PVR 4 - low height)
X70 > X32 > X32 > X70 (PVR 4)
X45 > X32 > X73 > X45 (PVR 4.5)
X45 > X73 > X32 > X45 (PVR 4.5)

Not forgetting ditching the need for most of the remote reliefs in Stanley too which was a big driver in previous service changes!

(28 Jul 2024, 9:21 am)L469 YVK wrote The problem with the X30/X70 services is that there's far too much dependency on low height double deck vehicles. Taking individual opinions out of which vehicles should be allocated etc and based on the E400MMCs staying at Consett, there'd be a hell of a lot more flexibility with only 4x vehicles needing to be low height.

If the X31 was dropped and X32 increased to 2x PH and swapped in Lobley Hill so that the X70 served the Lobley Hill Estate instead, could go.....

X30 > X71 > X71 > X30 (PVR 4 - low height)
X70 > X32 > X32 > X70 (PVR 4)
X45 > X32 > X73 > X45 (PVR 4.5)
X45 > X73 > X32 > X45 (PVR 4.5)

Not forgetting ditching the need for most of the remote reliefs in Stanley too which was a big driver in previous service changes!

I get what your saying but personally I'd look at the vehicles instead. If they didn't repaint more buses in pointless Super Shuttle liveries. I'd personally move all the Enviro 200 MMC's to Consett and then have a mixed allocation for the 6/X30/X31/X32/X45/X70/X71/X73

There's more than enough buses to do it ie. 

Main Allocation:
14 Enviro 400 MMC
8 Enviro 200 MMC

Spares
2 Older Enviro 400 MMC
2 Enviro 200 MMC

I'm sure there's easily 8 boards which could be singles ie. most of the 5 boards on the 6 for starters.

The bridge is now no longer an issue.

(28 Jul 2024, 2:56 pm)Storx wrote I get what your saying but personally I'd look at the vehicles instead. If they didn't repaint more buses in pointless Super Shuttle liveries. I'd personally move all the Enviro 200 MMC's to Consett and then have a mixed allocation for the 6/X30/X31/X32/X45/X70/X71/X73

There's more than enough buses to do it ie. 

Main Allocation:
14 Enviro 400 MMC
8 Enviro 200 MMC

Spares
2 Older Enviro 400 MMC
2 Enviro 200 MMC

I'm sure there's easily 8 boards which could be singles ie. most of the 5 boards on the 6 for starters.

The bridge is now no longer an issue.

Well back in 2019 before COVID, there was strong peak time demand on the X30's and X70's. Plus there was growth on the Rowlands Gill to Newcastle corridor.

For starters, the X45, X46 and X47 warranted deckers. That then in turn formed interworking patterns to make sure everything ended up back in Consett.

- X30 (incl short runs to Stanley interworking with the then extension to Consett)
- X31/X45/X46
- X47/X70/X71

I'd say to keep things simple, keep everything double deck and except the 6, focus on forming cleaner interworking patterns and round trips. If GNE tidied things further up, the headway between Sunniside and Newcastle would be better spaced to create more balanced demand, unlike when the X30 effectively clashed with the X70/X71 both in Sunniside and Newcastle (pre 2021). Or the whacky September 2021 changes combined with early stages of COVID recovery and driver shortages.

Plus not forgetting, demand does come in peaks and troughs. Matchday or a big festival in Newcastle at the weekend = easy bums on board. Fair enough, the Derwentside express routes (except the X45 & X73) don't have anything inbetween unlike Arriva Northumbria's Blyth & Ashington express routes. Likewise when Arriva have ran a mix of singles & doubles, quite often the wrong runs  ended up getting allocated singles leaving passengers standing.

To go to the Toon Tour conversation could they not just park them in Eldon Square or at Central Station over night, then someone comes and collects them about 6-7 and just wait at Central till they start

(28 Jul 2024, 9:50 pm)Unber43 wrote To go to the Toon Tour conversation could they not just park them in Eldon Square or at Central Station over night, then someone comes and collects them about 6-7 and just wait at Central till they start

i assume this logic is to avoid driving them in and out of the CAZ? 

it wouldn't work as it's based on if it pings any camera in the city, not if you enter or exit the CAZ. 

The Toon Tour exits the CAZ on Newbridge Street, enters again on the Quayside, exits again on Swing Bridge and then enters again on the Tyne Bridge, anyway.

Don't know i anyone has noticed all Scannia Omnideckers except 6172 - 6175 havedisappeared from the interactive fleet list. i would assume they are now all withdrawn especially as some B9's have been transfered in to Washington and Percy Main

(30 Jul 2024, 8:24 am)ian foster wrote Don't know i anyone has noticed all Scannia Omnideckers except 6172 - 6175 havedisappeared from the interactive fleet list. i would assume they are now all withdrawn especially as some B9's have been transfered in to Washington and Percy Main

Yes, Sadly the last N94's have gone. N270's remain.
Suprised that 6167/8/9 & 71 had went with 6165

(30 Jul 2024, 8:24 am)ian foster wrote Don't know i anyone has noticed all Scannia Omnideckers except 6172 - 6175 havedisappeared from the interactive fleet list. i would assume they are now all withdrawn especially as some B9's have been transfered in to Washington and Percy Main

I'll not miss them. So uncomfortable.

(30 Jul 2024, 8:24 am)ian foster wrote Don't know i anyone has noticed all Scannia Omnideckers except 6172 - 6175 havedisappeared from the interactive fleet list. i would assume they are now all withdrawn especially as some B9's have been transfered in to Washington and Percy Main

Good, i'll miss them like a hole in the head

(30 Jul 2024, 8:24 am)ian foster wrote Don't know i anyone has noticed all Scannia Omnideckers except 6172 - 6175 havedisappeared from the interactive fleet list. i would assume they are now all withdrawn 

Good riddance.

More of a disconnect. (a bit like this forum on my phone)

(01 Aug 2024, 6:46 pm)BusLoverMum wrote More of a disconnect. (a bit like this forum on my phone)

Oh dear, 6161 has been on 20/65 all week, although it seemingly failed on the 20 on Monday evening at West Rainton, result being 1845 65 off Durham failed to operate, 6159 was sent light to West Rainton to rescue driver who then went light to Seaham to resume duties with the 1946 65 to Durham.

(28 Jul 2024, 9:16 am)Ambassador wrote 6101 and 6116 appear to be on Toon Tour duties today

Luckily it’s not a lovely sunny day….

I notice on social media that Go North East employees were out on one of the two open-toppers yesterday to 'say goodbye' to a member of staff (https://x.com/liamhall24/status/1819465986736902162). This obviously meant that the other board was operated by a standard B9, so yet again GNE 'management' prioritising themselves over the people who pay their salaries - the public. 

Thinking back to the Great Strike of 2023, I seem to recall one of the "arguments" peddled by some on here was that the GNE drivers weren't as "productive" (did we ever get a good explanation for that?) as their Stagecoach counterparts. I wonder, as Stagecoach take yet more work from GNE in the form of the Great Park services, if the same argument can be applied to their respective commercial teams? I struggle to imagine you can have a productive afternoon swanning around on an open-topper.

(03 Aug 2024, 7:41 pm)PH - BQA wrote I notice on social media that Go North East employees were out on one of the two open-toppers yesterday to 'say goodbye' to a member of staff (https://x.com/liamhall24/status/1819465986736902162). This obviously meant that the other board was operated by a standard B9, so yet again GNE 'management' prioritising themselves over the people who pay their salaries - the public. 

Thinking back to the Great Strike of 2023, I seem to recall one of the "arguments" peddled by some on here was that the GNE drivers weren't as "productive" (did we ever get a good explanation for that?) as their Stagecoach counterparts. I wonder, as Stagecoach take yet more work from GNE in the form of the Great Park services, if the same argument can be applied to their respective commercial teams? I struggle to imagine you can have a productive afternoon swanning around on an open-topper.

That's one of the two branded examples not the two actually in normal use, so 6993 was presumably VOR rather than taken out of service for this.  Having said that, 6995 did actually appear in service at one point last week, so seems they can do it when they choose to.

(03 Aug 2024, 7:41 pm)PH - BQA wrote I notice on social media that Go North East employees were out on one of the two open-toppers yesterday to 'say goodbye' to a member of staff (https://x.com/liamhall24/status/1819465986736902162). This obviously meant that the other board was operated by a standard B9, so yet again GNE 'management' prioritising themselves over the people who pay their salaries - the public. 

Thinking back to the Great Strike of 2023, I seem to recall one of the "arguments" peddled by some on here was that the GNE drivers weren't as "productive" (did we ever get a good explanation for that?) as their Stagecoach counterparts. I wonder, as Stagecoach take yet more work from GNE in the form of the Great Park services, if the same argument can be applied to their respective commercial teams? I struggle to imagine you can have a productive afternoon swanning around on an open-topper.

I thought he retired a few years ago.

Anyhow, we do that sort of thing too but the difference is it tends to just be whichever bus is spare in the yard.

The same twitter fella (with being a reputation of a boot licker naturally) who posted the X Lines video.

Another one who seems to be employed as a yes man as opposed to any commercial nouse. Anyone half decent is long gone from GNE these days

(03 Aug 2024, 7:41 pm)PH - BQA wrote I notice on social media that Go North East employees were out on one of the two open-toppers yesterday to 'say goodbye' to a member of staff (https://x.com/liamhall24/status/1819465986736902162). This obviously meant that the other board was operated by a standard B9, so yet again GNE 'management' prioritising themselves over the people who pay their salaries - the public. 

Thinking back to the Great Strike of 2023, I seem to recall one of the "arguments" peddled by some on here was that the GNE drivers weren't as "productive" (did we ever get a good explanation for that?) as their Stagecoach counterparts. I wonder, as Stagecoach take yet more work from GNE in the form of the Great Park services, if the same argument can be applied to their respective commercial teams? I struggle to imagine you can have a productive afternoon swanning around on an open-topper.

Without doxing anyone, I'm sure the fella retiring may have some connections to the poster who made those claims.

But no, we never did get to the bottom of the productivity accusation.

---

(03 Aug 2024, 8:05 pm)F114TML wrote I thought he retired a few years ago.

Anyhow, we do that sort of thing too but the difference is it tends to just be whichever bus is spare in the yard.

Allegedly retired not long after MG appeared. Kept his finger involved with driving shifts such as Kynren (although kerbing an Omnidekker last summer wasn't a highlight). 
Then reappeared when MG disappeared. 

So I've heard anyway.

Does anyone know why 6101 never seems to be properly allocated to the 307 and 309 services anymore? Almost every day it works the same thing, which is the 327, alongside the X39 on weekdays, and this has been happening for a number of months now.

I know it's not really a huge issue, as the London B9's which are used in its place on the 307 / 309 are not really that bad (certainly better than the Omnidekka's) , but it is still a bit strange and frustrating, that comfortable and high spec bus 6101 never seems to be properly allocated for a full day on its proper route. It only seems to get on these routes for part days here and there, possibly as a spare bus to cover for breakdowns? It occasionally appears on the 1 and 35X services, but again only seeming to come on half way through the day, possibly again to cover for an earlier breakdown. Just seems a bit of a waste to not have this bus out properly, as the rest of 6102 - 17 are.

Like I said, it's not really a massive issue, as most of the London B9's that cover for it are fine (although some are quite a lot better than others), but it is confusing, as 6101 itself does not seem to suffer breakdowns and seems to handle its set services on the 327, and whenever it is used as spare cover, without any issue. I guess this is a bit like what is happening on the 21 route, but not as bad obviously, as this is just 1 bus, whereas on the 21 there is loads of the Streetdecks off route, and there is a bigger spec difference between the Streetdecks and what covers for them, so I do feel the passengers on the 21 are getting a really bad deal, certainly compared to the 307 / 309, which is majority solid buses, but wish they could just sort this out with 6101 to make that even better.

(07 Aug 2024, 9:52 am)Arriva7446 wrote Does anyone know why 6101 never seems to be properly allocated to the 307 and 309 services anymore? Almost every day it works the same thing, which is the 327, alongside the X39 on weekdays, and this has been happening for a number of months now.

I know it's not really a huge issue, as the London B9's which are used in its place on the 307 / 309 are not really that bad (certainly better than the Omnidekka's) , but it is still a bit strange and frustrating, that comfortable and high spec bus 6101 never seems to be properly allocated for a full day on its proper route. It only seems to get on these routes for part days here and there, possibly as a spare bus to cover for breakdowns? It occasionally appears on the 1 and 35X services, but again only seeming to come on half way through the day, possibly again to cover for an earlier breakdown. Just seems a bit of a waste to not have this bus out properly, as the rest of 6102 - 17 are.

Like I said, it's not really a massive issue, as most of the London B9's that cover for it are fine (although some are quite a lot better than others), but it is confusing, as 6101 itself does not seem to suffer breakdowns and seems to handle its set services on the 327, and whenever it is used as spare cover, without any issue. I guess this is a bit like what is happening on the 21 route, but not as bad obviously, as this is just 1 bus, whereas on the 21 there is loads of the Streetdecks off route, and there is a bigger spec difference between the Streetdecks and what covers for them, so I do feel the passengers on the 21 are getting a really bad deal, certainly compared to the 307 / 309, which is majority solid buses, but wish they could just sort this out with 6101 to make that even better.

Is it filling a gap for withdrawn Omnidekkas on the route? It's normally one of the branded DFDS deckers on the route 


In terms of the 21 - some of the Streetdecks are that tatty internally and lumbering that the ex-London stock can sometimes be a bit better but when you've got the stock that was running the route 20 years ago now fillling in for newer vehicles - there's an issue.

I don't think it helps that the X21 seems to get allocated a few of the Streetdecks as there doesn't seem to be a solid allocation policy for that service anymore.

The 2 routes have both hugely dropped in terms of quality and reliability since they moved to Riverside.

(07 Aug 2024, 12:15 pm)Ambassador wrote Is it filling a gap for withdrawn Omnidekkas on the route? It's normally one of the branded DFDS deckers on the route 


In terms of the 21 - some of the Streetdecks are that tatty internally and lumbering that the ex-London stock can sometimes be a bit better but when you've got the stock that was running the route 20 years ago now fillling in for newer vehicles - there's an issue.

I don't think it helps that the X21 seems to get allocated a few of the Streetdecks as there doesn't seem to be a solid allocation policy for that service anymore.

The 2 routes have both hugely dropped in terms of quality and reliability since they moved to Riverside.

The X21 has never had a stable allocation of vehicles or a good track record with vehicle reliability

- Ex London presidents
- Gen 1 StreetDecks with Gen 2's later thrown in
- Volvo B5TL
- Gen 3 StreetDecks

GNE when the 21 eventually receives EV's need to put aside some of the Angel StreetDecks as spares. But no doubt that if Percy Main ended up with ex Angel StreetDecks on the 307 & 309, the current B9TL's on there would probably do a canny little job on the X21 given their relatively easy lives at Percy Main.

Other option as I've said many times before.....sort the low height issue out on the X30/X70 group of services and actually allocate vehicles that can handle 60+ mile round trips! And it's definitely do-able!

(07 Aug 2024, 4:57 pm)L469 YVK wrote GNE when the 21 eventually receives EV's need to put aside some of the Angel StreetDecks as spares. But no doubt that if Percy Main ended up with ex Angel StreetDecks on the 307 & 309, the current B9TL's on there would probably do a canny little job on the X21 given their relatively easy lives at Percy Main.

Stop please. Percy Main wouldn't get Angel StreetDecks cause why would they. The Cobalts are fine on the 307/309

(07 Aug 2024, 5:04 pm)Aaron21 wrote Stop please. Percy Main wouldn't get Angel StreetDecks cause why would they. The Cobalts are fine on the 307/309

Forums are for discussion, stop having a go at people. 

Because they will be spare and would have an easier life than on the 21. Likewise the Cobalts, which have so far had an easy life would actually get worked hard. Idiot.

(07 Aug 2024, 4:57 pm)L469 YVK wrote The X21 has never had a stable allocation of vehicles or a good track record with vehicle reliability

- Ex London presidents
- Gen 1 StreetDecks with Gen 2's later thrown in
- Volvo B5TL
- Gen 3 StreetDecks

GNE when the 21 eventually receives EV's need to put aside some of the Angel StreetDecks as spares. But no doubt that if Percy Main ended up with ex Angel StreetDecks on the 307 & 309, the current B9TL's on there would probably do a canny little job on the X21 given their relatively easy lives at Percy Main.

Other option as I've said many times before.....sort the low height issue out on the X30/X70 group of services and actually allocate vehicles that can handle 60+ mile round trips! And it's definitely do-able!

Personally can't see them splitting them up, better keeping them in the same place.

If I had to make predictions I'd say:
21: New Buses
10/10A/10B/12: Ex Angel Streetdeck's
51/52/93/94 B9's: Ex Ten B9's
59/60 Plate B9's: Withdraw 07/57/08 Buses

(07 Aug 2024, 9:52 am)Arriva7446 wrote Does anyone know why 6101 never seems to be properly allocated to the 307 and 309 services anymore? Almost every day it works the same thing, which is the 327, alongside the X39 on weekdays, and this has been happening for a number of months now.

I know it's not really a huge issue, as the London B9's which are used in its place on the 307 / 309 are not really that bad (certainly better than the Omnidekka's) , but it is still a bit strange and frustrating, that comfortable and high spec bus 6101 never seems to be properly allocated for a full day on its proper route. It only seems to get on these routes for part days here and there, possibly as a spare bus to cover for breakdowns? It occasionally appears on the 1 and 35X services, but again only seeming to come on half way through the day, possibly again to cover for an earlier breakdown. Just seems a bit of a waste to not have this bus out properly, as the rest of 6102 - 17 are.

Like I said, it's not really a massive issue, as most of the London B9's that cover for it are fine (although some are quite a lot better than others), but it is confusing, as 6101 itself does not seem to suffer breakdowns and seems to handle its set services on the 327, and whenever it is used as spare cover, without any issue. I guess this is a bit like what is happening on the 21 route, but not as bad obviously, as this is just 1 bus, whereas on the 21 there is loads of the Streetdecks off route, and there is a bigger spec difference between the Streetdecks and what covers for them, so I do feel the passengers on the 21 are getting a really bad deal, certainly compared to the 307 / 309, which is majority solid buses, but wish they could just sort this out with 6101 to make that even better.

Different situation to the Angels on the 21.

The 327 driver covers meal breaks for the Toon Tour drivers, and the Toon Tour drivers take their break on his bus.

It is allocated 6101 so that the drivers have tables for their meal break, and in case of any breakdowns on the Toon Tour service, it is a bus fitted with next stop announcements and of a good quality internally.

(07 Aug 2024, 5:36 pm)Storx wrote Personally can't see them splitting them up, better keeping them in the same place.

If I had to make predictions I'd say:
21: New Buses
10/10A/10B/12: Ex Angel Streetdeck's
51/52/93/94 B9's: Ex Ten B9's
59/60 Plate B9's: Withdraw 07/57/08 Buses

Technically, they'd be the same as now in terms of split fleets, given 6352-55 being at Riverside. They always have been (Consett/Hexham) or had plans (Consett / Washington pre-covid) to be split . If the X20 rightfully got a downgrade from XLines and ran using other Misc deckers, would be:

Consett:
- 6x E400MMC (incl 2x spare)
- 8x StreetDeck**
- 7x B5TL**

**PVR of 13x with 2x spare

Riverside:
- 1x StreetDeck (6 cylinder)*
- 14x E400MMC*

* PVR of 12x with 3x spare, or no spares if X9 re-instated, full Enviro allocation on X9/X10 with VOR's being covered by Misc spare allocated on X21

As for the StreetDeck cascade idea....I don't think it's a bad shout. However.......

- The 602 (and maybe a bit Blyth engineering) killed off Arriva Northumbria 7430-35 to the extent that Jesmond never sent them out on evenings & Sundays. How would StreetDecks handle the 10/10A/10B if the voith geared Tridents which were of far inferior quality to the modern E400/E400MMC, couldn't handle the 602?

- Volvo B9TL's have always been overkill on the 307 (310/311) & 309 to the extent that GNE tried to retrofit GKN mods. Would it not be better sending Angel StreetDecks to Percy Main and bar the misc workings fleet, have a standardised main fleet of StreetLites & StreetDecks? Then the less leggy Volvo B9TL's currently on the Cobalts, could go on the 10/10A/10B/12 and then cascade down from there as mentioned?