(13 Sep 2024, 9:17 pm)Ambassador wrote I strongly suspect this is the case, even down to the advice given on what vehicles to buy in last years. 

Since things were consolidated to riverside, standards and reliability on most routes have fallen off a cliff. Deptford and Washington seem to do ok but perhaps they are far enough away to not be impacted by riversides ineptness. 

If they invested as much in engineering as they did in social media we’d be good. Pointless trying to attract passengers when your base product is shite

Thing is as well Go North East only having depots up in and around Newcastle area ain’t great especially when you break down and get stranded at the side of the A19 for over an hour. Would make more sense having say Stagecoach operate that service where they’ve got 2 depots in Newcastle, one in Sunderland for say if they break down on A19 or likes of Dalton Park and a one in Stockton for breakdowns in and around them areas.

(13 Sep 2024, 8:03 pm)PH - BQA wrote Plenty of other companies use E400 MMCs on demanding services day in day out without as many issues as GNE seem to be having with theirs. Could it not simply be that GNE engineering standards are seriously lacking when compared to standards at other major companies?

The E400MMCs are definitely not the issue. It's the lack of rotation and the same 4x vehicles getting a beasting daily. The same issue that GNE had with 6043-48 when they did the X9/X10.

Arriva Northumbria's MMC's are fine as they get rotated between the X14/X15/X18/X20 and X21/35/X22.

We know what they need to do to address the issues at Riverside and have more stable buses on Riverside's 'X' routes. But if us enthusiasts can devise interworking patterns that not only address the issue and create greater efficiencies such as ditching most of the remote reliefs, then there lies the issue.

GNE have had two big opportunities to address the issue. First time around.....they didn't "to stop the remote reliefs in Stanley" when the X30/X31/X45 interworked. Then next time around, they still haven't and yet most of the reliefs this time around are done in Stanley.

What a joke!

On the subject of E400MMCs…

Following the recent BSIP-funded enhancement, I’m told the PVR increased such that the requirement for low-height X-lines E400MMC increased, meaning there is no longer an equivalent-specification spare bus available. This means, on a daily basis, Streetlites and E200MMCs are being allocated to these services.

When left without a spare, the mind boggles that 6339 is in use on rail replacement duties for LNER between Newcastle and Berwick-upon-Tweed / Edinburgh today, resulting in even more single-decks being allocated to the X30 and friends.

Unlike most on this forum, I actually don’t disagree with BSIP funding being used to improve some of the services which are likely to be sustainable once the funding runs out. But I’d be narked if I were NECA, when the operator has made an intentional decision to downgrade a service which is currently being propped up by public subsidy.

(14 Sep 2024, 10:10 am)Dan wrote On the subject of E400MMCs…

Following the recent BSIP-funded enhancement, I’m told the PVR increased such that the requirement for low-height X-lines E400MMC increased, meaning there is no longer an equivalent-specification spare bus available. This means, on a daily basis, Streetlites and E200MMCs are being allocated to these services.

When left without a spare, the mind boggles that 6339 is in use on rail replacement duties for LNER between Newcastle and Berwick-upon-Tweed / Edinburgh today, resulting in even more single-decks being allocated to the X30 and friends.

Unlike most on this forum, I actually don’t disagree with BSIP funding being used to improve some of the services which are likely to be sustainable once the funding runs out. But I’d be narked if I were NECA, when the operator has made an intentional decision to downgrade a service which is currently being propped up by public subsidy.

Is it such a bad thing the E200MMC's are being used instead? There appears to be a few boards which miss both peaks so don't really see the issue with them. They're pretty much identical spec anyway and much higher quality than some of the other X Lines junk lingering around, B5's in particular.

It's arguably better using the high quality singles on a route that doesn't need deckers than having deckers lingering around empty all the time.

Why the Streetlite's are on today, who knows, but GNE and allocations are as bad as Arriva lately.

(14 Sep 2024, 10:10 am)Dan wrote On the subject of E400MMCs…

Following the recent BSIP-funded enhancement, I’m told the PVR increased such that the requirement for low-height X-lines E400MMC increased, meaning there is no longer an equivalent-specification spare bus available. 

But it's the sheer issue the last management back in 2022 and the current management haven't given thought to any of this!

- 2022 - X30/X31 could've been done with remote reliefs in Stanley rather than interworking with X45 = more E400MMC available for routes where power & durability is needed

- 2024 - Current changes go contrary to trying and avoid remote reliefs and still in no better position

Whickham, Sunniside and Dunston does not warrant a 20 minute frequency using deckers! And neither does the X20 warrant B5TLs given the fact it can't sustain a full evening & Sunday service.

All that literally needs to happen is the X31 dropped, X70 via Lobley Hill Est and X32 increased to 2bph and via Lobley Hill Road. That's a lot of issues sorted and in some ways, an actual improvement for passengers including more buses from Stanley to Gateshead.

An observation from a brief jaunt out today. I was stood in a bus station about midday and noticed the general manager of the nearest depot was present and watching proceedings. A passenger on one of the stands kicked up a fuss with a driver who was coming into the bus station off the shuttle from the depot, quite likely at the outset of a middle shift, about a gap in service. The driver said they understood there had been a failure, which swiftly led to this driver having a strip torn off them by this passenger. The general manager in question, who I could see was watching the interaction from only a few feet away, simply stood idly by and allowed this driver to be spoken to quite brutally over a matter they had no part in.

Now, as I understand, in the current (and quite bloated) management structure, general managers oversee both operations and engineering, and so I feel there's an argument to be made that any and all failures, regardless of how one might try and explain them away, are their ultimate responsibility. I can't quite rationalise being so much of a coward as to stand and watch a driver take the flack like that for something which was in no way their fault.

The two Berries Versas need scrapping as soon as possible. Straight away in the recent heavy rains they leak, soaking seats beside the windows, water teams in from the headlining. Solos are bad enough, but those two 8334/5 take the biscuit

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(26 Sep 2024, 3:53 pm)54APhotography wrote The two Berries Versas need scrapping as soon as possible. Straight away in the recent heavy rains they leak, soaking seats beside the windows, water teams in from the headlining. Solos are bad enough, but those two 8334/5 take the biscuit

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The curse of bonded windows, mind you it wasn’t so long ago it was the scania solars and you’d have to go a long way to beat them for leakiness.

(26 Sep 2024, 5:02 pm)xpm wrote The curse of bonded windows, mind you it wasn’t so long ago it was the scania solars and you’d have to go a long way to beat them for leakiness.

Aye they could leak, but these two really are beyond redemption!

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I had DFDS branded 6211 this morning, god help our Dutch visitors arrrive in Newcastle during the rain.

Pouring in via the windows, dripping through the overhead light strips and the lower deck back seats were soaked through

Was behind a graphite solo with a flickering rear light today.. Shouldn't of been on the road.

6337 any closer to returning to service. Seen it a few weeks back parked up at Hownsgill having more work done to it.

Its been out of service for over a year now I believe

(27 Sep 2024, 1:56 am)idiot wrote Was behind a graphite solo with a flickering rear light today.. Shouldn't of been on the road.

Often electrics on those affected by leaks on rainy days. 675 the worst I've seen

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It was defo a wet day!!

(27 Sep 2024, 10:16 am)WestDurhamSwift wrote 6337 any closer to returning to service. Seen it a few weeks back parked up at Hownsgill having more work done to it.

Its been out of service for over a year now I believe

Its parked up at the front of the depot, minus front lower panel and headlight surrounds.
Its been off the road since last May! I bet the 69 plate E400 MMCs cant be that far behind, mileage wise now!


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I know what we need

Waiting for a Liam Hall tweet to tell me how amazing GNE are…

(27 Sep 2024, 8:50 pm)Tiger5105 wrote Its parked up at the front of the depot, minus front lower panel and headlight surrounds.
Its been off the road since last May! I bet the 69 plate E400 MMCs cant be that far behind, mileage wise now!


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Unless GNE didn't see it as a priority to fix, because the low height vehicle requirement before this year was only 9x

(28 Sep 2024, 7:38 am)L469 YVK wrote Unless GNE didn't see it as a priority to fix, because the low height vehicle requirement before this year was only 9x

Someone who works at Hownsgill has said on FB before that , as it was a demonstrator, quite a number of the parts are non standard v a normal E400 MMC so thats the issue.

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A bus yet to enter service (despite bustimes saying it was out on 9th July) and a bus that has been off the road since May 2023 , 6337 at Hownsgill today

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(28 Sep 2024, 9:40 am)Tiger5105 wrote Someone who works at Hownsgill has said on FB before that , as it was a demonstrator, quite a number of the parts are non standard v a normal E400 MMC so thats the issue.

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Hmmm very interesting! Never thought that would be the case.

Must say talking about Hownsgill, I can't remember a depot which has gone backwards in terms of fleet age as that depot has in recent years.

The amount of downgrades is absolutely embarrassing and it's not just the past couple year. I'd be interesting to compare the fleet age in 2019 to now, using the buses which were at the depot at the time if they were still there as I wouldn't be surprised if it's worse which is piss poor considering it was 5 year ago and that's not even the newest fleet it had, since it got massive investment with most of it took away.

If I remember it was though:
V's: Same Solo's
X70/X71: 62 Plate B9TL
78: 15 Plate Streetlite's
X45/X46/X47: 15/16 Plate Streetlite or 15 Plate B9TL
16/16A: 66 Plate Streetlites
15/15A: Citaro's

So well for progress...

(28 Sep 2024, 5:10 pm)Storx wrote Must say talking about Hownsgill, I can't remember a depot which has gone backwards in terms of fleet age as that depot has in recent years.

The amount of downgrades is absolutely embarrassing and it's not just the past couple year. I'd be interesting to compare the fleet age in 2019 to now, using the buses which were at the depot at the time if they were still there as I wouldn't be surprised if it's worse which is piss poor considering it was 5 year ago and that's not even the newest fleet it had, since it got massive investment with most of it took away.

If I remember it was though:
V's: Same Solo's
X70/X71: 62 Plate B9TL
78: 15 Plate Streetlite's
X45/X46/X47: 15/16 Plate Streetlite or 15 Plate B9TL
16/16A: 66 Plate Streetlites
15/15A: Citaro's

So well for progress...

I think the main driver was that 6304-07 ended up leaving so that they could be prioritised on Euro 6 routes, and StreetLites disappearing of the 16/16A in a swap for then ex Coaster B5LH's.

Saying that, if Percy Main end up with StreetDecks on the Cobalts when the Angel goes EV, the current Cobalt B9TL's have had very charmed lives and interior wise are decent spec. They wouldn't be too bad on something like the X5/X15 or 16/16A.

I had 3964 and 6050 as my match day chariots today.

I heard 3964 leave Chester from Low Fell such is it’s noise, 6050 is delightful

Both outperform the modern streetdeck crap that can’t be trusted to be 5 miles away from riverside

(28 Sep 2024, 7:07 pm)L469 YVK wrote I think the main driver was that 6304-07 ended up leaving so that they could be prioritised on Euro 6 routes, and StreetLites disappearing of the 16/16A in a swap for then ex Coaster B5LH's.

Saying that, if Percy Main end up with StreetDecks on the Cobalts when the Angel goes EV, the current Cobalt B9TL's have had very charmed lives and interior wise are decent spec. They wouldn't be too bad on something like the X5/X15 or 16/16A.

To be fair it's not even that, imo one of the worst purchases was the deckers for the X45/X46/X47, bar a few boards they never needed them and it was just overkill. They would've been better keeping the Streetlite's as now 4 years down the line we're on a route which is pretty much back to square one capacity wise but on a seriously reduced frequency.

It's one of those routes I'd love to see some ambition with and see the route downgraded back to singles but the routes restored as they were so you'd have the 45/46/47 all every 30 minutes. For the 47 through to Consett who knows, probably be better terminating the 10A short at Greenside and extending the R2 through to Consett instead, it's overkill having deckers over there imo.

The number of people using the X45, there's clearly demand down that corridor and it's pretty infrequent currently. Those Enviro's/B9's could be then used for the X5/X15/X70/X71/X72 instead.

(28 Sep 2024, 8:03 pm)Storx wrote To be fair it's not even that, imo one of the worst purchases was the deckers for the X45/X46/X47, bar a few boards they never needed them and it was just overkill. They would've been better keeping the Streetlite's as now 4 years down the line we're on a route which is pretty much back to square one capacity wise but on a seriously reduced frequency.

It's one of those routes I'd love to see some ambition with and see the route downgraded back to singles but the routes restored as they were so you'd have the 45/46/47 all every 30 minutes. For the 47 through to Consett who knows, probably be better terminating the 10A short at Greenside and extending the R2 through to Consett instead, it's overkill having deckers over there imo.

The number of people using the X45, there's clearly demand down that corridor and it's pretty infrequent currently. Those Enviro's/B9's could be then used for the X5/X15/X70/X71/X72 instead.

Hmmm, I see your argument. The only thing is that deckers do offer the same capacity, without the need for extra drivers, vehicles or fuel. Plus even on a 10 or 10/20 frequency (latter for Consett), singles could get cosy when demand to the MetroCentre is high or a match day.

If anything, the Rowlands Gill corridor is likely to be Consett's top performer and actually has a chance making money with the MetroCentre en-route, unlike the other Derwentside to Newcastle services effectively serving farmers fields and relying on commuter traffic.

(28 Sep 2024, 10:24 pm)L469 YVK wrote Hmmm, I see your argument. The only thing is that deckers do offer the same capacity, without the need for extra drivers, vehicles or fuel. Plus even on a 10 or 10/20 frequency (latter for Consett), singles could get cosy when demand to the MetroCentre is high or a match day.

If anything, the Rowlands Gill corridor is likely to be Consett's top performer and actually has a chance making money with the MetroCentre en-route, unlike the other Derwentside to Newcastle services effectively serving farmers fields and relying on commuter traffic.

Plenty spare deckers around though which are used on the schools for those odd times though. Obviously I understand the extra drivers etc but every 10/20 minutes vs every 30 minutes on the Western side of the route is a big difference. One is turn up and go and the other isn't.

It's much easier to persuade someone to use that so there's potential for growth. Let's be honest unless you're mental, you're not using the 47 full stop unless you want to go to the few villages inbetween Rowlands Gill and Winlaton Mill for god knows whatever reason especially at the Western side since they run 1 minute apart, fantastic timetabling of course.

(28 Sep 2024, 10:38 pm)Storx wrote Plenty spare deckers around though which are used on the schools for those odd times though. Obviously I understand the extra drivers etc but every 10/20 minutes vs every 30 minutes on the Western side of the route is a big difference. One is turn up and go and the other isn't.

It's much easier to persuade someone to use that so there's potential for growth. Let's be honest unless you're mental, you're not using the 47 full stop unless you want to go to the few villages inbetween Rowlands Gill and Winlaton Mill for god knows whatever reason especially at the Western side since they run 1 minute apart, fantastic timetabling of course.

I see what you mean with the growth, but did GNE not achieve that before COVID?

Also, which single decks could be used? If GNE weren't cash strapped and franchising wasn't on the horizon, B8RLE's run into the ground for 15 years would be perfect on the 45/46/47!

(28 Sep 2024, 11:09 pm)L469 YVK wrote I see what you mean with the growth, but did GNE not achieve that before COVID?

Also, which single decks could be used? If GNE weren't cash strapped and franchising wasn't on the horizon, B8RLE's run into the ground for 15 years would be perfect on the 45/46/47!

Yeah I believe so, it always done well the Red Kite imo but it's been a shambles pretty much since it turned into X Lines. Something personally I'd scrap.

I haven't checked what the PVR would be but the 69 Plate Enviro 200 MMC's which are sitting around doing nothing much lately should be enough? Sure they'd be able to do it fine. Need something for the X66, spare Q3's electrics maybe?

Upgrades for everyone really, could easily get some of these second hand Streetlite's that are supposedly coming up to cover the 6, then the B9's and E400MMC's can fill the quota up on the X5/X15/X70/X71/X72.

Be quite an upgrade to what's going around currently imo.

(28 Sep 2024, 11:26 pm)Storx wrote Yeah I believe so, it always done well the Red Kite imo but it's been a shambles pretty much since it turned into X Lines. Something personally I'd scrap.

I haven't checked what the PVR would be but the 69 Plate Enviro 200 MMC's which are sitting around doing nothing much lately should be enough? Sure they'd be able to do it fine. Need something for the X66, spare Q3's electrics maybe?

Upgrades for everyone really, could easily get some of these second hand Streetlite's that are supposedly coming up to cover the 6, then the B9's and E400MMC's can fill the quota up on the X5/X15/X70/X71/X72.

Be quite an upgrade to what's going around currently imo.

Total PVR was 14x for the 45/46/47 all half-hourly and the 47 only running to Blackhall Mill.

Irrespective of the fact the sockets never work, this is unacceptable in any setting.