First 2025 change has appeared on VOSA:

PB0003954/1453
New GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 50S (50S) Chester-le-Street Durham
Date received 29 Nov 2024
Effective date 06 Jan 2025

Actually found it on Bustimes - https://bustimes.org/services/50s-washin...eet-waldri

1 run a day from Chester-le-street to Durham

(30 Nov 2024, 2:45 pm)Michael wrote First 2025 change has appeared on VOSA:

PB0003954/1453
New GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 50S (50S) Chester-le-Street Durham
Date received 29 Nov 2024
Effective date 06 Jan 2025

Actually found it on Bustimes - https://bustimes.org/services/50s-washin...eet-waldri

1 run a day from Chester-le-street to Durham

The main changes normally happen towards the end of January.

(30 Nov 2024, 2:45 pm)Michael wrote First 2025 change has appeared on VOSA:

PB0003954/1453
New GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 50S (50S) Chester-le-Street Durham
Date received 29 Nov 2024
Effective date 06 Jan 2025

Actually found it on Bustimes - https://bustimes.org/services/50s-washin...eet-waldri

1 run a day from Chester-le-street to Durham

I believe that this currently runs as a duplicate to the normal 50 service.

(30 Nov 2024, 10:50 pm)busmanT wrote I believe that this currently runs as a duplicate to the normal 50 service.

Ah right, thanks for the info!

(30 Nov 2024, 10:50 pm)busmanT wrote I believe that this currently runs as a duplicate to the normal 50 service.

Doesn't it currently start at washington? (the dupe isn't showing on bustimes for some reason)

A very busy trip, and has been for some years, as the 50 passes through a large part of the catchment area for St. Leonard's in Durham. Also picks up a decent number for Durham Sixth Form Centre. Not unknown for that run to be full and standing from Waldridge Park.

Announcement soon, watch this Space!!

(Yesterday, 5:05 pm)Retro Nero wrote Announcement soon, watch this Space!!

In what sense. Them being on vosa or announced by Go North East

(Yesterday, 5:56 pm)Aaron21 wrote In what sense. Them being on vosa or announced by Go North East

I mentioned something in service suggestion page, sorry, should have put it on this page.

(Yesterday, 6:16 pm)Retro Nero wrote I mentioned something in service suggestion page, sorry, should have put it on this page.

With these changes are u shocked at some of them or will some of them shock the passengers and us

(Yesterday, 5:05 pm)Retro Nero wrote Announcement soon, watch this Space!!

When will these changes will take place?, if announcement is soon, 5th January?

Wonder if GNE have finally seen the sense to restore the X9 in these sets of changes?

R.e.....I'd imagine any changes wouldn't happen until either the 19th or 26th January.

Wonder if these are commercial changes or batshit crazy BSIP funded nonsense

(Yesterday, 9:11 pm)L469 YVK wrote Wonder if GNE have finally seen the sense to restore the X9 in these sets of changes?

R.e.....I'd imagine any changes wouldn't happen until either the 19th or 26th January.

It doesn't need to return. The x10 has been around for 2 nearly 3 years (I think). There's no need to bring it back. If the X10 was made every 30 minutes it would work better. Idk why people have this idea of restore the X9 will help in anyway. Even if the X9 came back what would it solve. A split frequency again which nobody wants. Honestly I think the X1 needs to be rerouted to serve Dalton Park & Peterlee via the A19 as why introduced it back then and then cut it. It would save the 61 being actually used along that section. 55 was cut cause of the X1 going that way. Now u have the X1 & 61 serve more if not the same way to Peterlee and it's daft. 

Anyways the X9 doesn't need to return. People have gotten used to the X10 and won't need the confusing of "which one serves Dalton & Which one serves Peterlee". Hell putting it lightly the X1 picks up more passengers on the Peterlee journeys. 

Also the X1 & X10 imo shouldn't use the same stand at Eldon. The queue is massive and u don't know which people are waiting for which

(Yesterday, 11:04 pm)Aaron21 wrote It doesn't need to return. The x10 has been around for 2 nearly 3 years (I think). There's no need to bring it back. If the X10 was made every 30 minutes it would work better. Idk why people have this idea of restore the X9 will help in anyway. Even if the X9 came back what would it solve. A split frequency again which nobody wants. Honestly I think the X1 needs to be rerouted to serve Dalton Park & Peterlee via the A19 as why introduced it back then and then cut it. It would save the 61 being actually used along that section. 55 was cut cause of the X1 going that way. Now u have the X1 & 61 serve more if not the same way to Peterlee and it's daft. 

Anyways the X9 doesn't need to return. People have gotten used to the X10 and won't need the confusing of "which one serves Dalton & Which one serves Peterlee". Hell putting it lightly the X1 picks up more passengers on the Peterlee journeys. 

Also the X1 & X10 imo shouldn't use the same stand at Eldon. The queue is massive and u don't know which people are waiting for which

The X10 should be just a short bus from Newcastle to Peterlee only. It's the main part of the route and would only need 2 buses, heck it actually wouldn't be bad use of BSIP funds as it's never been every 30 minutes to Peterlee and it's within the NECA area - unlike Middlesbrough.

The 55 should be restored aswell imo, at least as far as Hetton. The timings are ridiculous on the 35 right now, 50 minutes from Hetton to Sunderland direct is totally unacceptable for the distance and it's not like it's going to somewhere people don't go around there. Not to mention it would fill the gap on the 20/X20.

(Yesterday, 11:04 pm)Aaron21 wrote It doesn't need to return. The x10 has been around for 2 nearly 3 years (I think). There's no need to bring it back. If the X10 was made every 30 minutes it would work better. Idk why people have this idea of restore the X9 will help in anyway. Even if the X9 came back what would it solve. A split frequency again which nobody wants. Honestly I think the X1 needs to be rerouted to serve Dalton Park & Peterlee via the A19 as why introduced it back then and then cut it. It would save the 61 being actually used along that section. 55 was cut cause of the X1 going that way. Now u have the X1 & 61 serve more if not the same way to Peterlee and it's daft. 

Anyways the X9 doesn't need to return. People have gotten used to the X10 and won't need the confusing of "which one serves Dalton & Which one serves Peterlee". Hell putting it lightly the X1 picks up more passengers on the Peterlee journeys. 

Also the X1 & X10 imo shouldn't use the same stand at Eldon. The queue is massive and u don't know which people are waiting for which

But if the X10 was re-increased to half-hourly throughout the full route, it would need a PVR of 8x....although perhaps a short could run between Peterlee and Newcastle to make that section half-hourly, but would still need a PVR of 6x (which was the original X9/X10 PVR before the 2017 increase).

But any increases on the X10 (or re-introduction of X9) would definitely need changes to the X30s/X70s and X45 (reducing the low bridge PVR) to ensure there's enough suitable vehicles available which could handle the route. Or some of the current X30/X70 boards changed to single deckers.

Other option would be shifting 2x E400MMC from Consett (leaving 14x) and allocating B5TLs to the X45 with the X20 eventually getting some 51/2/93/4 / TVT / Cobalt B9TLs from the Angel cascade chain. Would still give 6377 as spare covering a PVR of 6x on the X10 if half hourly Newcastle to Peterlee, but Consett would struggle to keep a full decker allocation on the X30s/X70s especially given 6337's track record.

In an ideal world - you wouldn't need the X10 to Middlesbrough at all as Northern Rail should be a more attractive and reliable offering but the lack of reliability and capacity will hold it back

(Yesterday, 11:04 pm)Aaron21 wrote It doesn't need to return. The x10 has been around for 2 nearly 3 years (I think). There's no need to bring it back. If the X10 was made every 30 minutes it would work better. Idk why people have this idea of restore the X9 will help in anyway. Even if the X9 came back what would it solve. A split frequency again which nobody wants. Honestly I think the X1 needs to be rerouted to serve Dalton Park & Peterlee via the A19 as why introduced it back then and then cut it. It would save the 61 being actually used along that section. 55 was cut cause of the X1 going that way. Now u have the X1 & 61 serve more if not the same way to Peterlee and it's daft. 

Anyways the X9 doesn't need to return. People have gotten used to the X10 and won't need the confusing of "which one serves Dalton & Which one serves Peterlee". Hell putting it lightly the X1 picks up more passengers on the Peterlee journeys. 

Also the X1 & X10 imo shouldn't use the same stand at Eldon. The queue is massive and u don't know which people are waiting for which

Is there another stand that the X10 can use?

(10 hours ago)busmanT wrote Is there another stand that the X10 can use?

Many others. Could even use the 685 stand or the stand down from it

(9 hours ago)Aaron21 wrote Many others. Could even use the 685 stand or the stand down from it

I don't think that the X10 will fit on the 685 stand or the stand down from it - Nexus don't allow services to clash on a stand, and there has to be at least 5 minutes between departures.

(9 hours ago)Aaron21 wrote Many others. Could even use the 685 stand or the stand down from it

They'd be better building a new bus stop on Percy Street and pulling the 21 out of the bus station. When a service is every 7.5 minutes it doesn't need to serve a bus station, especially when all the buses go the same route at least (people beyond CLS should be using the X21).

Anything 12 minutes or above, where all the buses goes to the same destination (ie. not the 10/10A/10B) should be nowhere near a bus station unless there's ample space and the stands aren't pull in and reverse ie. Gateshead and Middlesbrough.

(5 hours ago)Storx wrote They'd be better building a new bus stop on Percy Street and pulling the 21 out of the bus station. When a service is every 7.5 minutes it doesn't need to serve a bus station, especially when all the buses go the same route at least (people beyond CLS should be using the X21).

Anything 12 minutes or above, where all the buses goes to the same destination (ie. not the 10/10A/10B) should be nowhere near a bus station unless there's ample space and the stands aren't pull in and reverse ie. Gateshead and Middlesbrough.

I'm so confused on so many things with the 21

1, why did it need a frequency upgrade to Chester-le-Street. Most if not all journeys I see now are empty 

2, why is there a Percy Street dest when a 21 pulls in before it

3, why does the 21 even stop on Newgate Street leaving Eldon (the one where the X10 stopped) like why why does it do that

4, why in the world is the 21 so bad now. It used to be gne flagship route. Now look at it. The brand Angel means nothing anymore cause they ain't even on it

5, why not use the BSIP to make u know the X21 every 15 between Newcastle & Durham instead no let's waste all money on a route to Chester-le-Street. Most people get of there and wait for a bus to Durham

(5 hours ago)Aaron21 wrote I'm so confused on so many things with the 21

1, why did it need a frequency upgrade to Chester-le-Street. Most if not all journeys I see now are empty 

2, why is there a Percy Street dest when a 21 pulls in before it

3, why does the 21 even stop on Newgate Street leaving Eldon (the one where the X10 stopped) like why why does it do that

4, why in the world is the 21 so bad now. It used to be gne flagship route. Now look at it. The brand Angel means nothing anymore cause they ain't even on it

5, why not use the BSIP to make u know the X21 every 15 between Newcastle & Durham instead no let's waste all money on a route to Chester-le-Street. Most people get of there and wait for a bus to Durham

That’s a load of rubbish, most 21 journeys aren’t empty. It’s a very busy service.

(5 hours ago)Aaron21 wrote I'm so confused on so many things with the 21

1, why did it need a frequency upgrade to Chester-le-Street. Most if not all journeys I see now are empty 

2, why is there a Percy Street dest when a 21 pulls in before it

3, why does the 21 even stop on Newgate Street leaving Eldon (the one where the X10 stopped) like why why does it do that

4, why in the world is the 21 so bad now. It used to be gne flagship route. Now look at it. The brand Angel means nothing anymore cause they ain't even on it

5, why not use the BSIP to make u know the X21 every 15 between Newcastle & Durham instead no let's waste all money on a route to Chester-le-Street. Most people get of there and wait for a bus to Durham

It's a mess mind, there's too many buses South of the Angel imo, 3 buses an hour would probably be more than enough not 8. The corridor should be more like the Great North Road imo with multiple service combining on the core corridor South of the Angel imo where it probably deserves the 8 buses an hour.

Mind I'd do the X21 every 20 minutes personally, means you could work it with the 6 past Durham and have it every 10 minutes combined between Bishop and Durham. Much better than having 2 buses following each other like now.

---

(4 hours ago)Thomas12 wrote That’s a load of rubbish, most 21 journeys aren’t empty. It’s a very busy service.

Unless it's changed, South of the Angel it isn't. Never really has been and with CLS depot closing, there's not really any sense of them all going down there - obviously a different question when the depot was there but it's not now.

(Yesterday, 9:46 pm)Ambassador wrote Wonder if these are commercial changes or batshit crazy BSIP funded nonsense

Like funding two additional buses on the 21, for them to stick a single deck on most days?

Maybe NECA should revise the payment to 1.5 buses...

So I've mentioned previously that it's possible for Derwentside's low height PVR to be reduced only to 4x and with same overall PVR of 17x and no major route changes.

If the X10 was increased to half hourly NCL-Peterlee (or X9 reintroduced), would it not make sense shifting all E400MMC to Riverside and have the following to sort the vehicle shambles out?

- X10 (NCL - Peterlee increased to half hourly) - PVR 6x

- X21 standalone (4 boards) - PVR 4x

- X21 (4 boards) /X71/X30 - PVR 8x, driver reliefs at Gateshead, NCL bound driver does X21>X71>X71>X30>X30>X21 with southbound driver doing round trip to West Auckland

Would be risky interworking the X21 with X30 & X71, but layover time in Consett would be 23 minutes so any delays could be recovered.

Would require 17x E400MMC with 6377 also used on the X10 and still leave 3x spare E400MMC. Also not forgetting, that the low height PVR would only be 8x. So full height deckers if needed could still be allocated to the X10 and the 4x standalone X21 boards.

Then for Consett, they get the 12 back in place of losing the X30 & X71 (interworking with the 6 - PVR 9x) and all E200MMC based out of Consett with the X66 getting a stop-gap until the EV's arrive. Then obviously 6356-63 and 6308-14 (with X20 getting a stop gap until cascaded B9TLs available) do the X32/X45/X70/X73 (PVR 13x) with 2x spares available.

(3 hours ago)Adrian wrote Like funding two additional buses on the 21, for them to stick a single deck on most days?

Maybe NECA should revise the payment to 1.5 buses...

It's 3 isn't it? I'd assume anyway, it being a 90 minute round trip.

The X9/X10 thing seems to be quite tricky, to be honest.

I'm sure there are many trips which are full and standing, hence the apparent duplicates this past Saturday, however I would imagine there are also a fair few which carry pretty low loads.

I haven't used the service myself in over a year now, because I cannot rely on it when I'm having days out on the network. That is largely due to it being hourly, and generally quite busy during the day. The last time I used it the incoming bus was late, so we were all turfed onto the next bus to Gateshead and told to wait there for 15 mins or so until it rocked up - obviously that direction was only given to those waiting in Eldon Square, so good luck to those who were waiting at the High Level. I've generally got little issue using hourly services, indeed I used one to commute to work for upwards of 2 years, however given the notorious tendency for vehicles on the X10 to have 'Wing Mirror' issues then the hourly nature becomes an issue.

An X9 coming back helps with some of that. If an X10 has an issue with one of those pesky mirrors then there's only a half hour wait for the next Angel Streetdeck to turn up. It also means that you're more likely to get a seat, and would help with timekeeping as passenger loadings would be spread. But for a business which is struggling as much as GNE allegedly are (we'll ignore the near £4m in profit in the latest accounts...), I don't see them doubling the PVR on a service without yet more taxpayer funding.

What would be interesting is if another operator from the southern end of the route (which would improve first/last journeys from/to that end) looked into it, and maybe looked into the possibility of returning it to run as a true express à la the TTX-era X10.

For all the criticism of the 21 it’s still a very busy profitable service and to say it’s empty past birtley simply isn’t true. Even off peak you’d be hard pressed to find a quiet service.

We shouldn’t be dragging other services down to promote others. We should be holding it up and saying this is what we need elsewhere

In the hands of franchising or a competent operator the 21 can be what it was in the guise of classic, the 221 and 723/4