(29 Mar 2014, 10:23 pm)robisdave wrote Any reason why we are wasting mileage and money by running service 5 through to Easington ( from Middlesbrough) on an evening when there is a perfectly acceptable and reliable local service, provided by Redcar and Cleveland Council, paid for by it's residents? Makes sense to terminate the 5 trips at Guisbborough and let those that want to travel through use the service so provided.

Doesn't help Arriva's customers with their multi trip products, does it? Good on Arriva I say.

(30 Mar 2014, 12:34 am)aureolin wrote Doesn't help Arriva's customers with their multi trip products, does it? Good on Arriva I say.

There's also the point he seems to missed about the 5 going to Easington (also actually serving Loftus and also being quicker from Guisborough to Skelton and Brotton) while the 707/708 (the Council services) are aimed at areas that previously had a supported evening service (in effect, the 707/708 are 3 routes rolled into two circulars - replacing the formerly Arriva-run 748 781 and 789).

(29 Mar 2014, 10:41 pm)robisdave wrote Same as the connections don't work between the 5 and 4 ? I've tried talking to Arriva but seemingly it's not an issue?

Considering they cant make any amendments until July, due to the VPA
agreements, how do you know that they are not planning to address it?

No I didn't miss any of points. I know all the facts and what operates where and how. It was just an observation and then I'm not really that fussed as long as I can get back to Guisborough of an evening.

I am though going to labour the issue of "connections" between service 5 and 4 on the M'bro-Guisborough-coast-Whitby corridor. There might, in some people's eyes, no business beyond Guiborough/Loftus on the 5 route but those who need to travel/commute along this corridor are effectively denided a direct service. It is OK those that don't use it suggesting the connection times are realistic but Friday last we waited 27 minutes at Loftus for a late running, and full X4/4 heading to Staithes/Whitby and then pretty much the same on the return. It is impossible to make these journeys early morning/late evening or on a Sunday and a waste of time raising the issue with Arriva as they provide what passes as a service and are only interested in revenue.

And before anyone says it can't work or isn't possible then I'll just go back to the time when we had real bus services but driven by greed and shareholders. Four services used to connect at Skelton, serving all of East Cleveland. The timetables were such that you got from one service across to another with no delays. There was odd times when certain services could be s few minutes late but the rules were that drivers waited until every service was present. It wouldn't work now of course because guaranteed punctuality and reliability are a thing of the past along with tthe imagination of just how things could work.

(30 Mar 2014, 12:37 pm)robisdave wrote And before anyone says it can't work or isn't possible then I'll just go back to the time when we had real bus services but driven by greed and shareholders. Four services used to connect at Skelton, serving all of East Cleveland. The timetables were such that you got from one service across to another with no delays. There was odd times when certain services could be s few minutes late but the rules were that drivers waited until every service was present. It wouldn't work now of course because guaranteed punctuality and reliability are a thing of the past along with tthe imagination of just how things could work.

Let me guess, another person stuck in 1985?

Until people wake up and realise that the days of buses to everywhere and anywhere, running all hours is gone, there is no point trying to explain.

Put it this way, there are a lot less passengers around these days, especially as car ownership has soared in the past 25 years.
Traffic on our roads is higher now than any other time in history.

Yet, with those two points, people still think buses should run all day, at unrealistic frequencies, to carry fresh air, but also with the added requirement to float over the traffic to maintain timetables.

A business is a business, doesn't matter what the product is. A business is there to make money. Nobody has a given right to a bus service, so if you have one, be thankful for what you have.

It will never go back into public hands, as the cost is disproportionate to the demand.

If demand existed, the same level of services would exist.

No one here is living in 1985 ! That's for sure.
I understand perfectly how the bus operators manage and do what they can with what they've got, the situations they face and demands required. Sometimes, quite frankly I don't really care what happens where for so long I get where I need to be; I'm pleased in that respect that I no longer have to rely on them to commute. We are lucky in our area to have the
provision that we have, my friend in Halifax, for example, tells me they have no services at all on an evening and weekend? I can't really see that being completely accurate but then I could live in North Yorkshire, where I would need a car. So yes I do see the bigger picture and it nice, useful, whatever to have these conversations to hear what others think.

(30 Mar 2014, 2:19 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote Let me guess, another person stuck in 1985?

Until people wake up and realise that the days of buses to everywhere and anywhere, running all hours is gone, there is no point trying to explain.

Put it this way, there are a lot less passengers around these days, especially as car ownership has soared in the past 25 years.
Traffic on our roads is higher now than any other time in history.

Yet, with those two points, people still think buses should run all day, at unrealistic frequencies, to carry fresh air, but also with the added requirement to float over the traffic to maintain timetables.

A business is a business, doesn't matter what the product is. A business is there to make money. Nobody has a given right to a bus service, so if you have one, be thankful for what you have.

It will never go back into public hands, as the cost is disproportionate to the demand.

If demand existed, the same level of services would exist.

Buses are still busy nowdays, although not as busy, do seem to be increasing again, slowly.

(30 Mar 2014, 2:44 pm)robisdave wrote No one here is living in 1985 ! That's for sure.
I understand perfectly how the bus operators manage and do what they can with what they've got, the situations they face and demands required. Sometimes, quite frankly I don't really care what happens where for so long I get where I need to be; I'm pleased in that respect that I no longer have to rely on them to commute. We are lucky in our area to have the
provision that we have, my friend in Halifax, for example, tells me they have no services at all on an evening and weekend? I can't really see that being completely accurate but then I could live in North Yorkshire, where I would need a car. So yes I do see the bigger picture and it nice, useful, whatever to have these conversations to hear what others think.

Suppose it'll depend on where you live in Halifax but the main town has plenty of evening/Sunday services to Huddersfield, Rochdale, Ripponden, Sowerby Bridge and Leeds at least.

I just go by what I'm told Scott? My mate's a car driver so enough said really!

Out of interest, is the X4/X5 busy at peak times between Qourum and Newcastle? If so, how do the Commanders cope?

Anyone know if Redcar have managed to get their 2 B7TL's running properly on the X93? I'd like 2 try and pencil in a journey this week, see how they perform so any heads up will be appreciated.

(30 Mar 2014, 4:11 pm)robisdave wrote Anyone know if Redcar have managed to get their 2 B7TL's running properly on the X93? I'd like 2 try and pencil in a journey this week, see how they perform so any heads up will be appreciated.

7485 and 7494 were both on the X93 on Friday, until 7485 failed.
7494 was back at Redcar yesterday and used on the 81 along with 7503, 7504 and 7512. Explain that one.
Hopefully tomorrow will see different allocations??

Your the one that works for the company, albeit not at Redcar. If ever the 81/81a requires complete PVR Decker allocation then it's only something that whoever does the allocation knows? It could be something to do with keeping the best buses for the Redcar drivers or there could even be s logical reason? I know I'm not travelling until I know it's a B7TL! Not getting a sore **** riding on s Temsa!

(30 Mar 2014, 5:13 pm)robisdave wrote Your the one that works for the company, albeit not at Redcar. If ever the 81/81a requires complete PVR Decker allocation then it's only something that whoever does the allocation knows? It could be something to do with keeping the best buses for the Redcar drivers or there could even be s logical reason? I know I'm not travelling until I know it's a B7TL! Not getting a sore **** riding on s Temsa!

There's no real reason for Redcar to be using deckers on the 81, other than that's the only route they can use them on, as the 64/64A interwork with the 22 which has a low bridge (as do the 63 and X3/X4).
All of the double deckers should be at Whitby for the X93 as that is where they should be allocated. There were only two on there yesterday, despite 6 being on the road in total.
7494 was allocated to Whitby on Friday so why should Redcar have it yesterday? Makes no sense.

Nothing Redcar do makes sense apart from this business of allocating the worst buses to Whitby. I would say that the entire operation should work out of your depot but guess there are complications on that front?

(30 Mar 2014, 5:33 pm)robisdave wrote Nothing Redcar do makes sense apart from this business of allocating the worst buses to Whitby. I would say that the entire operation should work out of your depot but guess there are complications on that front?

Yes sadly all maintenance takes place on lifts, and there is not enough headroom to get the deckers up...
You're right in terms of Redcar screwing Whitby over. They've done alright with the X4 though to be fair.

Can see that about your depot now? Passed by y'day on way to Darlo. Are the X4/4's operated throughout by Whitby staff? Just wondered if they maybe changed over at Redcar hence the need to keep the Redcar drivers sweet with Pulsars?

(30 Mar 2014, 5:53 pm)robisdave wrote Can see that about your depot now? Passed by y'day on way to Darlo. Are the X4/4's operated throughout by Whitby staff? Just wondered if they maybe changed over at Redcar hence the need to keep the Redcar drivers sweet with Pulsars?

There's one Whitby duty that changes in Redcar and picks another bus up (as there's one diagram that starts at Redcar and finishes in Whitby and vice versa) - but otherwise the Whitby drivers do an entire round trip.

The sheer logistics of keeping the Whitby out-station/operation must be a blight on revenue? The constant changing of vehicles fir example? As we've said 7494 was there the one day (that I know of) then back at Redcar the next day and this must happen regularly as I travel into M'bro service 5 and X93 hardly see the same fleet 2 days running? You expect this at depots like yours but the dead mileage has gotta be high? Obviously the operation can't be closed down - I'm sure Arriva would like this- but operation of the short X93's, town service and now the park and ride must preclude this?

(30 Mar 2014, 6:13 pm)robisdave wrote The sheer logistics of keeping the Whitby out-station/operation must be a blight on revenue? The constant changing of vehicles fir example? As we've said 7494 was there the one day (that I know of) then back at Redcar the next day and this must happen regularly as I travel into M'bro service 5 and X93 hardly see the same fleet 2 days running? You expect this at depots like yours but the dead mileage has gotta be high? Obviously the operation can't be closed down - I'm sure Arriva would like this- but operation of the short X93's, town service and now the park and ride must preclude this?

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Now the P&R is there, it pretty much cements Whitby's future for the next 4 years.

So it must be a 4 year contract then and an undoubted revenue / necessity? That with the short X93's which I suspect are real earners? Hope they can get the issues with the vehicles on the X93's sorted?

(30 Mar 2014, 3:41 pm)Tom wrote Out of interest, is the X4/X5 busy at peak times between Qourum and Newcastle? If so, how do the Commanders cope?

Not particularly. The constant changes to timetables on the x4/x5 has done wonders for the Stagecoach x63. You can be guaranteed a seat on the Arriva services whichever vehicle they provide these days.

Just been looking at the latest fleet news? Why do all these seemingly pointless transfers between Redcar and Whitby? Scanias 4648 etc move Whitby to Redcar but still operate x93? Pulses 1438 - 40 go Redcar to Whitby yet will work Redcar based duties. There is then the mystery of the E400's and now B7TL's which find themselves on Redcar operated 81/81A's. As for the Temsa's? Well anything seems to happen there!

(30 Mar 2014, 7:54 pm)robisdave wrote Just been looking at the latest fleet news? Why do all these seemingly pointless transfers between Redcar and Whitby? Scanias 4648 etc move Whitby to Redcar but still operate x93? Pulses 1438 - 40 go Redcar to Whitby yet will work Redcar based duties. There is then the mystery of the E400's and now B7TL's which find themselves on Redcar operated 81/81A's. As for the Temsa's? Well anything seems to happen there!

It's all based on the official allocation, which doesn't always reflect reality of course!

Crazy really but think I understand? I'm sure as drivers you find it as equally baffling? Question now is Will I need a cushion or a book when I go out for the X93 in the morning?

(30 Mar 2014, 8:06 pm)robisdave wrote Crazy really but think I understand? I'm sure as drivers you find it as equally baffling? Question now is Will I need a cushion or a book when I go out for the X93 in the morning?

Aye the Pulsar allocation will be entirely fluid what with the diagram's that swap vehicles each night. Whitby work 3 of the X4's but obviously only finish up with 2 of those on the night, with the 3rd being a bus that started the day at Redcar.

As for the X93, I would take both! lol

Just s thought before I get off? Unrelated and probably in the wrong place but I did pick up on something related to the late Moorsbus someplace else in the forum and just wondered if anyone had any updates / anything to add?

(30 Mar 2014, 8:56 pm)robisdave wrote Just s thought before I get off? Unrelated and probably in the wrong place but I did pick up on something related to the late Moorsbus someplace else in the forum and just wondered if anyone had any updates / anything to add?

See here