Some sort of incident involving 8303 on Conyers Avenue. An amblance is on scene now. No evidence of a crash when I drove past.

new timetables uploaded for changes from 1st June on the

Prince Bishops - http://www.simplygo.com/download/publication/61596.6

Laser - http://www.simplygo.com/download/publication/61555.26

Simplicity 42 - http://www.simplygo.com/download/publication/61513.92


I think these could be for the concert's at the Stadium of light

Currently the new timetables are in the horrible format

Edit: Looking at the new timetables... these seem to be re-timings and low used journeys getting withdraw

One of Chester-le-Street's 'Northern' branded Solars (I've forgotten which one, although 4929 rings a bell) has been fitted with a full two-line LED side display, similar to the ones used on the 'Great Park' and 'Fab Fifty Seven' buses.

(15 Apr 2014, 2:37 pm)AdamY wrote Some sort of incident involving 8303 on Conyers Avenue. An amblance is on scene now. No evidence of a crash when I drove past.

Passenger taken ill

(15 Apr 2014, 2:37 pm)AdamY wrote Some sort of incident involving 8303 on Conyers Avenue. An amblance is on scene now. No evidence of a crash when I drove past.

If there was no sign of damage to the vehicle and an ambulance present I would definitely say somebody taken ill. I've been on a 78 a couple of years back and an elderly woman had stomach cramps and the driver told the supervisor who got an ambulance to take her to hospital.

(15 Apr 2014, 3:10 pm)BJ10VUS wrote One of Chester-le-Street's 'Northern' branded Solars (I've forgotten which one, although 4929 rings a bell) has been fitted with a full two-line LED side display, similar to the ones used on the 'Great Park' and 'Fab Fifty Seven' buses.

They probably would fit a new feature to the bunch on the best vehicle, which in my opinion is 4929. 4926 and 4928 aren't that reliable, 4931's just re-entered service, 4930 is alright but 4927 is excellent (although it seems to often end up replacing vehicles)

Just out of curiosity what is the PVR for the 21 Shorts.

(15 Apr 2014, 4:24 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Just of curiosity what is the PVR for the 21 Shorts.

I don't believe it works like Durham 21's and Chester 21's. A 21 may do this for example; Chester - Newcastle -Durham - Newcastle - Chester (driver changeover) Chester - Newcastle - Chester - Newcastle. It's strange, but if you do the maths at 15 minutes at 2 hours from Newcastle to Durham and back it comes to a PVR of 8, but as I say the shorts do a run then do a full turn going to Durham the next time, and the remainder of the branded vehicles as well as a few extras do those to make up a frequency of every 7/8 minutes.

(15 Apr 2014, 4:44 pm)Marcus wrote I don't believe it works like Durham 21's and Chester 21's. A 21 may do this for example; Chester - Newcastle -Durham - Newcastle - Chester (driver changeover) Chester - Newcastle - Chester - Newcastle. It's strange, but if you do the maths at 15 minutes at 2 hours from Newcastle to Durham and back it comes to a PVR of 8, but as I say the shorts do a run then do a full turn going to Durham the next time, and the remainder of the branded vehicles as well as a few extras do those to make up a frequency of every 7/8 minutes.

Having reviewed the timetables when they were first revealed - the short 21s work stand-alone as do the Durham ones. The combined PVR is 17, split PVR 10 for Durham and PVR 7 for the Chester shorts.

I don't know what they could do to solve the reliability issues of the 21. What they could do is something like this in the near future depending upon the fleet:

- Services 21 and 22 would be renumbered services X21 and X22. Service X21 would operate half hourly serving the current route between Bishop Auckland Newcastle. Current service X22 rould be renumbered service X26 and the new X22 would operate the same route as the current X21 between Durham and Newcastle. Buses would operate a 15 minute combined frequency between Durham and Newcastle operating with double deck vehicles. The total number of buses operating the two routes would be 11.

However, during evenings and Sundays, the two services above would serve all stops between Chester Le Street and Newcastle rather than operate directly into Gateshead and Newcastle. They would both operate as services 21 and 22.

The section between Chester Le Street and Newcastle would be served by new service 24 operating every 10
minutes between Chester Le Street and Newcastle serving the same route as current service 21. Buses during the evenings and on Sundays would operate half hourly. The service would initially receive 7 single deck vehicles however, if capacity proved to be an issue, then buses could be cascaded after 12 months and replaced with double decks. All evening and Sunday journeys would be operated by 3 of the 10 double decks of the X21 and X22 to help cope with capacity with only 4 buses per hour between Chester Le Street and Newcastle.

In total, the frequencies would be as follows=
- Bishop Auckland to Newcastle operating limited stop every 30 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime, observing all stops every 60 minutes evenings and Sundays.
- Durham to Newcastle operating limited stop every 15 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime, observing all stops every 30 minutes evenings and Sundays.
- Chester Le Street to Newcastle operating limited stop every 15 mimutes Monday to Saturday daytime.
- Chester Le Street to Newcastle observing all stops every 10 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime, evenings and Sundays every 15 minutes.

What about the current X22?

I honestly wouldn't change the 21. Most of its reliability issues stem through appearing in 3s and 4s thru Birtley and low fell. They are the users that suffer. Not the longer distance users

Again you can't solve the 21 issues unless you magically wave a wand to end Durham Road congestion

(15 Apr 2014, 4:44 pm)Marcus wrote I don't believe it works like Durham 21's and Chester 21's. A 21 may do this for example; Chester - Newcastle -Durham - Newcastle - Chester (driver changeover) Chester - Newcastle - Chester - Newcastle. It's strange, but if you do the maths at 15 minutes at 2 hours from Newcastle to Durham and back it comes to a PVR of 8, but as I say the shorts do a run then do a full turn going to Durham the next time, and the remainder of the branded vehicles as well as a few extras do those to make up a frequency of every 7/8 minutes.

I'm not sure, I think goes something like this.

(Full 21's)
Chester - Newcastle = 44 Minutes
Newcastle - Chester - Durham = 68 Minutes
Durham - Chester - Newcastle = 68 Minutes
Newcastle - Chester = 44 Minutes
Chester - Newcastle = 44 Minutes
Newcaste - Chester = 44 Minutes
Total = 312 Minutes or 5 Hours 12 Minutes (Excluding Layovers)

(Short 21's)
Chester - Newcastle = 44 Minutes
Newcastle - Chester = 44 Minutes
Chester - Newcastle = 44 Minutes
Newcastle - Chester = 44 Minutes
Chester - Newcastle = 44 Minutes
Newcastle - Chester = 44 Minutes

Total = 264 Minutes or 4 Hours 24 Minutes (Excluding Layovers)

Would I be right in thinking that for a 5 Hour Shift Pattern, Full 21 Drivers would get a total of around 30 Minutes Layover and then that would be the end of there Shift, and Short's about an Hour as they would then go onto to do the 21's that run after 7pm, I definitely think it runs as 2 Standalone rather than Interworking as there is always at least 3 Together at some point during the Day.

Just trying to get my Head around how you would Eliminate the Possibility of Three 21's turning up at Once, which is proving rather Difficult to be Honest although I do have a few Suggestions.

- Service runs Every 10 Minutes between Durham - Newcastle, Rather than Every 15 Minutes, Then Every 7/8 Minutes from Chester Onwards

- Having the 21 Terminate at Pilgrim Street as well as Eldon Square Every 20 Minutes Each but Maintaining a Combined Frequency of Every 10 Minutes between Durham - Newcastle

- Have the Current Short 21's do the Following
Waldridge Park - Chester le Street - A1 - Angel of the North - Gateshead - Newcastle Pilgrim Street

- Have the Current Short 21's Integrated into the X21 to give a Combined Frequency of Every 15 Minutes between Chester and Newcastle with the 21 Operating between Durham and Newcastle Every 10 Minutes all under Angel Branding. (Would only Occur if Red Arrows X1 got New Buses in the Future, All B9TL's would have to be Utilised I would think for this to Work.

Just spent 2 Hours working all this out, I think the First 2 Suggestions are probs the most suitable #PleaseDon'tShootMeDown

(15 Apr 2014, 6:29 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Would I be right in thinking that for a 5 Hour Shift Pattern, Full 21 Drivers would get a total of around 30 Minutes Layover and then that would be the end of there Shift, and Short's about an Hour as they would then go onto to do the 21's that run after 7pm, I definitely think it runs as 2 Standalone rather than Interworking as there is always at least 3 Together at some point during the Day.

How it works in a nutshell, is that all the timetables are loaded into a Scheduling System (GNE use Austrics), and then the system builds the shifts the most efficient way. The shifts are built based on certain criteria (ie number of 4 day week shifts per day, minimum meal break length, maximum driving times, etc). It could build a shift with a couple of hours driving at the beginning of a shift then a long back half and vice versa - It is a pretty clever piece of software!

(14 Apr 2014, 9:02 pm)aureolin wrote Adsense perhaps?

not to sure but I live in Teesside, its not much use to me.

I saw a whey aye 50 in Murton today, I know it was definately that and not a Drifter, but I wasn't close enough to get a positive i.d. of it...

Only reason I can think of as to why it was in Murton is driver training, but isn't driver training done on ex nat-x coaches out of Gateshead, it was too late to be a school service, it was after half 4 and the schools are off anyway...

Anyone have a clue why it was here, is it route learning of some kind or some kind of replacement heading towards Deptford or Peterlee, even if it was, why come to Murton...

Can anyone shed some light on this please

(15 Apr 2014, 7:25 pm)marxistafozzski wrote I saw a whey aye 50 in Murton today, I know it was definately that and not a Drifter, but I wasn't close enough to get a positive i.d. of it...

Only reason I can think of as to why it was in Murton is driver training, but isn't driver training done on ex nat-x coaches out of Gateshead, it was too late to be a school service, it was after half 4 and the schools are off anyway...

Anyone have a clue why it was here, is it route learning of some kind or some kind of replacement heading towards Deptford or Peterlee, even if it was, why come to Murton...

Can anyone shed some light on this please

I suspect it would have been a 265 as Chester do some runs and have used the blue omnicity in the past.

I'd say that all of the corridors in and out of Newcastle are very congested. It can take 25 minutes some nights from Haymarket to Station Road on all Coast Road services. I don't know what Newcastle City Council and
Nexus could do but they could do something like this:

- At peak times, all traffic going Westbound towards the A167 / Jesmond must use lane 2 between Corner House and Sandyford Road. Only allowed to use lane 1 for Sandyford Road and that would be enforced by cameras. So for instance, all vehicles would be captioned at Corner House and if they were caught using lane 1 to head towards the A167 instead of Sandyford Road, £££.

- At peak times, all traffic going eastbound must use lane 2 for the Coast Road. Only allowed to use lane 1 for Jesmond, Cradlewell or Newton Road. So for instance, all cars would be captured on the Sandyford Road junction and if they were caught using lane 1 for the Coast Road, and not for the four possible turnoffs, £££.



- At peak times, all traffic

(15 Apr 2014, 7:31 pm)GuyParkRoyal wrote I suspect it would have been a 265 as Chester do some runs and have used the blue omnicity in the past.

Dont think so mate, as I saw 6020 on the 265 20 minutes earlier, and the omnicity never came down the Terrace, went down the Pit Road and New Road to Dalton Park...

Maybe a replacement for 6020(is 6020 a Chester vehicle), and the only time I have seen deckers on that route is normally a school day only occurence...

(15 Apr 2014, 7:59 pm)marxistafozzski wrote Dont think so mate, as I saw 6020 on the 265 20 minutes earlier, and the omnicity never came down the Terrace, went down the Pit Road and New Road to Dalton Park...

Maybe a replacement for 6020(is 6020 a Chester vehicle), and the only time I have seen deckers on that route is normally a school day only occurence...

6020 is based at Deptford

(15 Apr 2014, 7:59 pm)marxistafozzski wrote Dont think so mate, as I saw 6020 on the 265 20 minutes earlier, and the omnicity never came down the Terrace, went down the Pit Road and New Road to Dalton Park...

Maybe a replacement for 6020(is 6020 a Chester vehicle), and the only time I have seen deckers on that route is normally a school day only occurence...

Chester do a morning run and an evening run on the 265, and from what a few miscellenous driver's have told me it gets an OmniCity allocated every time because there's always one lying around in the depot (which doesn't make any sense as they should all be out on the 50, aside from 5259 which is VOR and I don't think has left the depot in over a month now). The only possibility for one being in Murton would maybe be because it was recieving maintenance at Deptford (once again, doesn't make any sense seeing as Deptford's vehicles come to Chester for brake tests and end up on scholars etc, but I suppose it would be possible). Doubt it would be a loan, especially a branded vehicle.

(15 Apr 2014, 8:21 pm)Marcus wrote Chester do a morning run and an evening run on the 265, and from what a few miscellenous driver's have told me it gets an OmniCity allocated every time because there's always one lying around in the depot (which doesn't make any sense as they should all be out on the 50, aside from 5259 which is VOR and I don't think has left the depot in over a month now). The only possibility for one being in Murton would maybe be because it was recieving maintenance at Deptford (once again, doesn't make any sense seeing as Deptford's vehicles come to Chester for brake tests and end up on scholars etc, but I suppose it would be possible). Doubt it would be a loan, especially a branded vehicle.

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought those runs were an extra AM and PM School and College Run and numbered 865, or am I thinking of a completely different service, I guess it is one of those little mysteries brought to you by GNE

(15 Apr 2014, 8:33 pm)marxistafozzski wrote Correct me if I am wrong, I thought those runs were an extra AM and PM School and College Run and numbered 865, or am I thinking of a completely different service, I guess it is one of those little mysteries brought to you by GNE

The 865 used to be an extra morning/afternoon journey on school days until the recent East Durham service changes, its now just the 265.

The morning run to Framwellgate Moor is often a double decker and the 1545 journey is often a double decker too and the journey starting at Framwellgate Moor at 1607 is usually a single decker (often a Renown or Solar, although I've the Omnicitys for Service 50 pop up a few times.)

(15 Apr 2014, 6:41 pm)citaro5284 wrote How it works in a nutshell, is that all the timetables are loaded into a Scheduling System (GNE use Austrics), and then the system builds the shifts the most efficient way. The shifts are built based on certain criteria (ie number of 4 day week shifts per day, minimum meal break length, maximum driving times, etc). It could build a shift with a couple of hours driving at the beginning of a shift then a long back half and vice versa - It is a pretty clever piece of software!

It sounds very intriguing but rather complicated for my simple mind to even understand to be honest, I mainly trying to work whether the Full 21's interworked with Short 21's or whether were both Standalone Services, But to do that I had to figure out what a Driver Shift would be like on Particular Service, Probs Complicated it a bit for Myself but I did work by myself that they were Standalone Services.

http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...hp?tid=809&pid=39084#pid39084

(15 Apr 2014, 3:10 pm)BJ10VUS wrote One of Chester-le-Street's 'Northern' branded Solars (I've forgotten which one, although 4929 rings a bell) has been fitted with a full two-line LED side display, similar to the ones used on the 'Great Park' and 'Fab Fifty Seven' buses.

So why the hell can't go north east put a new onein 8306 39 simplicity

(15 Apr 2014, 10:51 pm)Acky81 wrote So why the hell can't go north east put a new onein 8306 39 simplicity

Tell me about it...been like that since it was branded drifter

(15 Apr 2014, 9:58 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote It sounds very intriguing but rather complicated for my simple mind to even understand to be honest, I mainly trying to work whether the Full 21's interworked with Short 21's or whether were both Standalone Services, But to do that I had to figure out what a Driver Shift would be like on Particular Service, Probs Complicated it a bit for Myself but I did work by myself that they were Standalone Services.

Yes, they do standalone. A driver could do short 21's before meal and long 21's after based on how Austrics builds the shifts, or the system can build a shift with either all short or all long 21's. (or different routes of course, whatever is in the business unit)

Out of interest who covers the numerous lost mileage/shorts? (especially around Christmas)

By shorts I mean CLS - Birtley - CLS and the few I've seen that come off the A1 and start at Eighton Lodge and flip round at Gateshead?

Are they just late runners being regulated?

(16 Apr 2014, 1:39 pm)gtom wrote Out of interest who covers the numerous lost mileage/shorts? (especially around Christmas)

By shorts I mean CLS - Birtley - CLS and the few I've seen that come off the A1 and start at Eighton Lodge and flip round at Gateshead?

Are they just late runners being regulated?

Do you mean as in the drivers? If so, it tends to be miscellenous drivers, and when the special services come into action in the festive season otherwise it tends to be just sucked into the mid duties. The best person you can ask for that one would be an actual driver, but I think that's the way it works. I've seen a few drivers come in from Newcastle then when they come back down from the Black Horse their blind says Birtley so I get on and it ends at the end of Birtley before spinning around at the top and going back to Chester, so to someone who isn't aware it seems like more Chester 21's are running than Durham 21's. I'm not sure if they are late runners or are actual scheduled services, but I think the Diamond has a similar thing with Craghead.

(16 Apr 2014, 5:18 am)citaro5284 wrote Yes, they do standalone. A driver could do short 21's before meal and long 21's after based on how Austrics builds the shifts, or the system can build a shift with either all short or all long 21's. (or different routes of course, whatever is in the business unit)

There are a few duties where Unit 1 don't do the 21 at all. I don't know if the number has since changed, but currently I think Duty 119 does something like this; (I know it's shortened and not very clear, but when I see the driver later on in the day I begin to gather what they have done in the daytime)

Drive Bus out of Chester Depot
Drive X25 from Chester to Langley Park
Drive X25 from Langley Park to Newcastle
Drive X25 from Newcastle to Langley Park
Drive X25 from Langley Park to Chester
Meal Break
Drive X25 from Chester to Langley Park
Drive X25 from Langley Park to Newcastle
Drive X25 from Newcastle to Langley Park
Drive X25 from Langley Park to Chester
Drive Bus back to Chester Depot

I think it used to be number 117 before the shift changes occured, but once again the best person to ask would be an actual driver