Dont know if its rare or odd but 4511 serving X9 this afternoon

(04 Jul 2014, 3:58 pm)V514DFT wrote Dont know if its rare or odd but 4511 serving X9 this afternoon

Think it should be a Pulsar, so would be classed as rare/odd, yup.

Few from County Durham, 1313 and 7435 on 57A, 4646 on 24.

"A Captains Tale" Pulsar 1473 is on Services 46/48 today.

1411 was on Services 85/685 today.

Newly blyth based s710 kft bus was on ashington depot 35/35a bus today must be a bus short

I dont know if its a first but a gas bus was on a X66 this afternoon leaving Middlesbrough at aout 4pm I was stuck at some lights so couldnt get the number

(06 Jul 2014, 5:56 pm)alanf wrote I dont know if its a first but a gas bus was on a X66 this afternoon leaving Middlesbrough at aout 4pm I was stuck at some lights so couldnt get the number

As it's a Sunday, it's just the norm.

Sundays are totally random for arriva,eg full size single deckers run on the 46 to featherstone grove but overheard a driver say it apparently interworks with the 43,but i did see 4507 operating the 306 at 3 dont know if its supposed to be a pulsar on a sunday

(06 Jul 2014, 5:56 pm)alanf wrote I dont know if its a first but a gas bus was on a X66 this afternoon leaving Middlesbrough at aout 4pm I was stuck at some lights so couldnt get the number

3 gas buses and 1 pulsar interwork 5a/X66 on Sundays

1303 is on 56/57/57A/86 today.

1649 is operating the 8/8A today.

Following on from having Cadet 1904 on 5/5A yesterday, we have 15 branded Pulsar 1486 on there today, though I'm not sure what it replaced! 1444 managed a trip on 21A but has now been replaced by 4069, while 1907 is out all night on service 15... Redcar have Pulsar 1437 on 22/64/64a

Regarding the Coastliner B5LHs often spending a lot of time away from the 308.

I thought it was worth making a few enquiries to the DfT under the freedom of information act. The DfT have been most helpful, but I was quite surprised at the response. I'll keep my thoughts to myself for now.

Taken from "Section 4: Use of Bus(es)" on Arriva's bid for Green bus funding:

The buses will be used on Arriva Northumbria's service 308, a frequent trunk service operating daily
to connect Blyth with Newcastle City Centre, via Whitley Bay, North Tyneside General Hospital and
Willington. The town centre area where the service originates in Blyth has been designated an Air
Quality Management Area by Northumberland County Council and Blyth Valley District Council, with
transport emissions identified as a key source of pollutants. The route also operates into the
Newcastle City Council Air Quality Management Area, which was extended beyond the city centre
to include key access routes, including that utillised by the 308. Within the city centre, the
conversion of this service would assist in reducing the concentration of emissions at Haymarket Bus
Station. The service provides important links into North Tyneside General Hospital, which would
also benefit from the reduced emissions produced by the new buses. This is a very high mileage
service [Information redacted under Section 41(1) of the Act], which maximises the benefit to
emissions levels from the use of hybrid buses. If successful, consideration will be given to
converting similar trunk services into Newcastle. The proposal has the full support of Nexus and
Northumberland County Council, both of whom have provided letters of support, which are included
within the printed packs.

I asked two additional questions. The first asking how much use the buses had seen off route (308), and the second asking whether this is abnormal from what would be expected. The responses from the DfT:

Performance data submitted to DfT shows the funded buses to have been
operating solely on route 308 from Blyth to Newcastle as specified in the bid.

The operational data provided to DfT show no abnormality in terms of the route
used by the Green Bus Fund buses.

(10 Jul 2014, 7:12 pm)aureolin wrote Regarding the Coastliner B5LHs often spending a lot of time away from the 308.

I thought it was worth making a few enquiries to the DfT under the freedom of information act. The DfT have been most helpful, but I was quite surprised at the response. I'll keep my thoughts to myself for now.

Most worrying - does this mean that Arriva North East are claiming that the B5LHs are being exclusively allocated to service 308, when the reality differs?

So my question is.....are Arriva telling porkie pies to the DfT and what are the penalties for doing so.....

I think its disgusting.
They could get the buses taken off them or a huge fine for that.

The press would love to get their hands on a story like that.

(10 Jul 2014, 7:37 pm)Tom wrote I think its disgusting.
They could get the buses taken off them or a huge fine for that.

I doubt they'd get the buses taken off them, but I can't see why the DfT can't turn round and request the money they were given in the bid is handed straight back (or fine them the difference)... They've been allocated to just about every Blyth-based service ever since entering service, and if they have been submitting incorrect performance data...

(10 Jul 2014, 7:39 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote The press would love to get their hands on a story like that.

Where's gtom at when you need him?!

(10 Jul 2014, 7:34 pm)Dan wrote Most worrying - does this mean that Arriva North East are claiming that the B5LHs are being exclusively allocated to service 308, when the reality differs?

I'd say so. Being a legal response to an FOI and based on the dictionary definition of 'solely'. Indicates that there's a bit of a communication breakdown doesn't it? Enthusiasts photographing B5LHs off route on a daily basis.

(10 Jul 2014, 7:35 pm)citaro5284 wrote So my question is.....are Arriva telling porkie pies to the DfT and what are the penalties for doing so.....

I think it's what is called a "communication breakdown" in the commercial world. It would certainly appear from the FOI response that the data isn't being recorded, whether that be by the operator or the DfT.

(10 Jul 2014, 7:39 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote The press would love to get their hands on a story like that.

I think we all know that it's certainly not "solely". Why would there be so many enthusiast photos of them off route if that's the case? It's something that needs further investigation in my opinion. If it's as others are suggesting, then it certainly doesn't do the case for QCS any harm...

(10 Jul 2014, 9:24 pm)aureolin wrote I'd say so. Being a legal response to an FOI and based on the dictionary definition of 'solely'. Indicates that there's a bit of a communication breakdown doesn't it? Enthusiasts photographing B5LHs off route on a daily basis.


I think it's what is called a "communication breakdown" in the commercial world. It would certainly appear from the FOI response that the data isn't being recorded, whether that be by the operator or the DfT.


I think we all know that it's certainly not "solely". Why would there be so many enthusiast photos of them off route if that's the case? It's something that needs further investigation in my opinion. If it's as others are suggesting, then it certainly doesn't do the case for QCS any harm...

I am going to be careful how I word this next post...

There is no arguing that the buses have been seen off route - photographic evidence proves it has happened on more than one occasion.

The next outcome, needs to identify who is at fault.
ANE, who could be accused of defrauding the fund and taxpayer (intentionally or not) OR someone in the DfT, has incorrectly recorded data.

I feel someone has a duty to report the 'mistakes' to the relevant bodies.
It may turn out to be the tip of the iceberg, as ANE aren't the only ones to receive funding based on certain promises or conditions.

Is it not, perhaps, that the questions haven't been asked - so the answers haven't been given?

A case of "Don't ask - don't tell . . . " ?

The question surely is "Are not-green-vehicles being used on routes that were stipulated to be green vehicles (whilst the green vehicles are being used elsewhere when they should be running on the designated route)?"

(10 Jul 2014, 10:00 pm)G-CPTN wrote Is it not, perhaps, that the questions haven't been asked - so the answers haven't been given?

A case of "Don't ask - don't tell . . . " ?

The question surely is "Are not-green-vehicles being used on routes that were stipulated to be green vehicles (whilst the green vehicles are being used elsewhere when they should be running on the designated route)?"

The questions were specific. I should have included them in my post - sorry. These are as laid out on the original FOI request. Ignore that question 1 is missing, as that was a request for a redacted copy of the original bid.

2) Could you provide me with details of how much use the funded vehicles have seen on routes other than specified in the winning bid? I understand that operators have to provide this information on a weekly or monthly basis to the DfT.

3) Could you advise whether the DfT view the data provided in 2) to be abnormal from what the department would expect to see?

I deliberately worded question 2 like that because I felt it makes them go away and look for examples that they haven't been used on the 308.

Attached is what comes from the DfT.

(10 Jul 2014, 10:31 pm)citaro5284 wrote Attached is what comes from the DfT.

The way the form is structured it'd be impossible to not record/have record of the usage. It's definitely something worth further enquiries.

(10 Jul 2014, 10:31 pm)citaro5284 wrote Attached is what comes from the DfT.

Do you know which form is used to monitor the AVL equipment which was also subsidised by the BSOG?
Obviously the data for that needs to be recorded and submitted too.

(10 Jul 2014, 7:34 pm)Dan wrote Most worrying - does this mean that Arriva North East are claiming that the B5LHs are being exclusively allocated to service 308, when the reality differs?

Doesn't surprise me. Look at the 'official' lost mileage figures for Redcar.

1514 on X66

1507 on the 2

(12 Jul 2014, 2:04 pm)Kuyoyo wrote 1514 on X66