(10 Jul 2014, 6:03 pm)aureolin wrote X84/X85 seem really popular, but I've only used it twice each way. Both in the last fortnight. I had noticed that there is very little movement with alighting out of Newcastle on both services. My trip on both the X84 and X85 actually had no alighting until Corbridge. The way back is a different story. Although I only used the X85 twice to travel back, I had noticed that it tends to pick passengers up all the way to Heddon travelling on to Newcastle. The only concern I had is that although the services were really popular (27 on one trip), the most fare paying customers picked up in a single trip was 4.

I don't think competition is a vicious circle mind, and I think the creation of the X84/X85 may back that up? We arguably wouldn't have the service if GNE didn't see a gap in the market. In this case Arriva not looking after their customers.

I do think at the same time though that GNE have neglected customers in North Sunderland and Co. Durham for example. North Sunderland has been chopped and changed more times than a butcher's meat cleaver, and even had things like SimpliCity thrown at it. Customers have remained loyal to Stagecoach though it would seem? Perhaps something Stagecoach are doing right? I don't know. County Durham is a similar story, and customers are quite heavily under-served. Sure enough there's the angel and Prince Bishops services, which are quality services in my opinion. Problem is though that it only goes into Durham Bus Station. There's no connection so customers living in Durham can't really take advantage of them.

I wholeheartedly believe most competition is to bite back at another operator - or at least in recent cases it has been.

Service OK1 would still be here today if Arriva didn't get their knickers in a twist about Go North East stealing some of their passengers. To my memory, Arriva introduced more services or services to a higher frequency to combat the OK1, and they succeeded. Was it after the X7's introduction that Arriva focussed more on that neck of the woods? I know that the passenger numbers would have decreased on the ANE services with the introduction of GNE service X7... If they started focussing on that neck of the woods more after service X7's introduction, it backs up my point even further.
Anyway, if Arriva left GNE to be content with their Bishop Auckland - Darlington - Middlesbrough express service, the OK1 would still be here today and the X84/X85 wouldn't have been introduced. Go North East knew that service 685 was inundated with complaints (we've seen countless news articles from Hexham), and most were related to the issues in regards to reliability - buses not showing up after breaking down or being excessively late due to the trip being so long - and also the issue of the allocation provided not being low floor. Go North East heavily advertised the service at the time as being operated 'locally' with a spare vehicle always being available in the bus station whenever possible. In addition, they also marketed the service as being fully low-floor, something which, at the time, service 685 could not boast about.

Like I said before, if a service has to be cut or withdrawn due to competition from another operator, the 'victim' of this is more than likely going to bite back by introducing a new service or altering another service so that it keeps the other operator on their toes. The 'victim' is going to do their research beforehand though, and if they pinpoint a service whereby the other company has neglected its passengers, they're going to identify that as the company's weak point.

(10 Jul 2014, 6:37 pm)Dan wrote I wholeheartedly believe most competition is to bite back at another operator - or at least in recent cases it has been.

Service OK1 would still be here today if Arriva didn't get their knickers in a twist about Go North East stealing some of their passengers. To my memory, Arriva introduced more services or services to a higher frequency to combat the OK1, and they succeeded. Was it after the X7's introduction that Arriva focussed more on that neck of the woods? I know that the passenger numbers would have decreased on the ANE services with the introduction of GNE service X7... If they started focussing on that neck of the woods more after service X7's introduction, it backs up my point even further.
Anyway, if Arriva left GNE to be content with their Bishop Auckland - Darlington - Middlesbrough express service, the OK1 would still be here today and the X84/X85 wouldn't have been introduced. Go North East knew that service 685 was inundated with complaints (we've seen countless news articles from Hexham), and most were related to the issues in regards to reliability - buses not showing up after breaking down or being excessively late due to the trip being so long - and also the issue of the allocation provided not being low floor. Go North East heavily advertised the service at the time as being operated 'locally' with a spare vehicle always being available in the bus station whenever possible. In addition, they also marketed the service as being fully low-floor, something which, at the time, service 685 could not boast about.

Like I said before, if a service has to be cut or withdrawn due to competition from another operator, the 'victim' of this is more than likely going to bite back by introducing a new service or altering another service so that it keeps the other operator on their toes. The 'victim' is going to do their research beforehand though, and if they pinpoint a service whereby the other company has neglected its passengers, they're going to identify that as the company's weak point.

When it should be about providing the passenger with a better service

The fact is, it never has been - or if it has, those occasions have been few and far between.

If GNE could get ten Mercs together and operate two express services between Newbiggin and Newcastle in a similar format to the old X31 and X32 (every 30 via North Seaton (no evenings and Sundays) or Wansbeck Hospital (every 60 evenings and Sundays) then every 15 minutes combined to Newcastle calling at Stakeford, Bedlington Stn, Bedlington Red Lion, Hartlands then as an extra bonus non stop to Newcastle from there), they could make a good go of it. Obviously a Merc wouldn't compare with Sapphire but with a journey saving of 10 - 15 minutes fron Newbiggin and a happy medium of speed and frequency from Ashington as opposed to the hourly X20 despite the X20 being faster but two expresses being faster than the X21 / X22, they could do well.

(10 Jul 2014, 7:39 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote If GNE could get ten Mercs together and operate two express services between Newbiggin and Newcastle in a similar format to the old X31 and X32 (every 30 via North Seaton (no evenings and Sundays) or Wansbeck Hospital (every 60 evenings and Sundays) then every 15 minutes combined to Newcastle calling at Stakeford, Bedlington Stn, Bedlington Red Lion, Hartlands then as an extra bonus non stop to Newcastle from there), they could make a good go of it. Obviously a Merc wouldn't compare with Sapphire but with a journey saving of 10 - 15 minutes fron Newbiggin and a happy medium of speed and frequency from Ashington as opposed to the hourly X20 despite the X20 being faster but two expresses being faster than the X21 / X22, they could do well.

With Sapphire E400's entering service? Don't think so.

(10 Jul 2014, 7:43 pm)Tom wrote With Sapphire E400's entering service? Don't think so.

What? 10 to 15 minutes faster from Newbiggin, fast and frequent from Ashington (happy medium between X20 and X21 / X22, no detour via Ridge Farm AND, no congestion through Gosforth and Regent Centre instead operating directly between Hartlands and Haymarket via Fisher Lane, A1 and A167 with future junction improvement in Cowgate?

(10 Jul 2014, 7:47 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote What? 10 to 15 minutes faster from Newbiggin, fast and frequent from Ashington (happy medium between X20 and X21 / X22, no detour via Ridge Farm AND, no congestion through Gosforth and Regent Centre instead operating directly between Hartlands and Haymarket via Fisher Lane, A1 and A167 with future junction improvement in Cowgate?

I'd rather have Wi-Fi and power sockets.

(10 Jul 2014, 7:51 pm)Tom wrote I'd rather have Wi-Fi and power sockets.

But what if GNE installed CCL or Moovbox?

(10 Jul 2014, 7:51 pm)Tom wrote I'd rather have Wi-Fi and power sockets.

Chances are you'd get Wi-Fi (retrofitted - like what happened with 5229-5233), but not the power sockets.

And what if you wanted a spot of retail therapy?

Anyway, regardless of what Go North East could provide, I doubt Go North East would try and trod on Arriva's toes in the areas mentioned.

As we established above, they usually go for an area in which an operator typically neglects its passengers. With the introduction of Sapphire in these areas, Arriva expect growth - they're not going to neglect those passengers.

(10 Jul 2014, 7:55 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote And what if you wanted a spot of retail therapy?

Not my type of thing - but I'd rather surf the web on my way.

There are countless examples of GNE and Arriva going head to head recently with the major examples being the OK1 vs X1, X7 vs 21A/23/24, 685 vs X84/5 and 51 vs 307.

1. When the OK1 was introduced Arriva were bound to retaliate because they are the primary operator in Darlington (operating all routes except for a couple by Scarlet Band and Dales and District) and are obviously very protective over it as it will likely make them a heap of cash. As a result about a month after the OK1 the X1 was introduced which departed exactly two minutes before the OK1 at Darlington, Bishop Auckland and Crook. Arriva also had the advantage of already having a network and thus connections in Darlington. Thanks to this GNE revised the route of the OK1 to run from Bishop Auckland to Middlesbrough while Arriva extended one journey per hour to Tow Law and kept one journey terminating at Crook in place of service 1 which was revised to terminate at Bishop Auckland (meaning technically the number of Arriva buses to Crook was reduced once again to one every half an hour). Despite this the OK1 was still no match for Arriva and was withdrawn.

2. GNE introduced the X7 linking their Sunderland and Peterlee networks with Middlesbrough in order to create a new service linking these places and thus filling a gap in the market. Unsuprisingly Arriva chose not to retaliate as the X7 is not the the exactly same as any routes they run only sharing similarities with routes 21A, 23 and 24 though these only share main stopping points in common with the X7 (i.e Sunderland, Peterlee and Middlesbrough) while the rest of the route is different hence there was no reason for Arriva to intervene.

3. GNE introduced the X84/5 after the OK1 was withdrawn after noticing a gap in the market and the large amounts of complaints Arriva had been getting with regards to the 685. Since its introduction the 685 as far as I'm aware seems to be becoming a less popular option with many opting for GNE over Arriva. Suprisingly Arriva have chosen not to retaliate likley because just like Arriva in Darlington, GNE have a network in Hexham and more services than Arriva from Newcastle. As a result I can see Arriva choosing to abandon the 685 in the future allowing either Stagecoach Carlisle and Stagecoach Newcastle to operate the service jointly or even for GNE and Stagecoach to operate it jointly!

4. Arriva introduced the service 51 in order to replace the X6 and a stretch of the 53 along with changes to the 54 and 306. Arriva realised the potential to extend a stretch of a previous route to Newcastle by the same route as GNE 307 as it only ran hourly, terminated at Benton Asda and it started later and finished earlier. Unsuprisingly GNE have chosen not to retaliate as it is not one of their major services and is carried along by the 17 and a scholars contract and as the contract has been lost I imagine will be withdrawn pretty soon.

Result:
OK1 vs X1=GNE withdrew the OK1.
X7 vs 21A/23/24=No issues as there was no identical or similar Arriva service to the X7 hence all services mentioned are still operating.
685 vs X84/5=At the moment nothing but in the future I predict something major will happen.
51 vs 307=I imagine GNE will withdraw the 307 in the near future.

If the 307 did get withdrawn, which is likely, I'd imagine peak time journeys would still run.

(10 Jul 2014, 9:03 pm)peter wrote There are countless examples of GNE and Arriva going head to head recently with the major examples being the OK1 vs X1, X7 vs 21A/23/24, 685 vs X84/5 and 51 vs 307.

1. When the OK1 was introduced Arriva were bound to retaliate because they are the primary operator in Darlington (operating all routes except for a couple by Scarlet Band and Dales and District) and are obviously very protective over it as it will likely make them a heap of cash. As a result about a month after the OK1 the X1 was introduced which departed exactly two minutes before the OK1 at Darlington, Bishop Auckland and Crook. Arriva also had the advantage of already having a network and thus connections in Darlington. Thanks to this GNE revised the route of the OK1 to run from Bishop Auckland to Middlesbrough while Arriva extended one journey per hour to Tow Law and kept one journey terminating at Crook in place of service 1 which was revised to terminate at Bishop Auckland (meaning technically the number of Arriva buses to Crook was reduced once again to one every half an hour). Despite this the OK1 was still no match for Arriva and was withdrawn.

2. GNE introduced the X7 linking their Sunderland and Peterlee networks with Middlesbrough in order to create a new service linking these places and thus filling a gap in the market. Unsuprisingly Arriva chose not to retaliate as the X7 is not the the exactly same as any routes they run only sharing similarities with routes 21A, 23 and 24 though these only share main stopping points in common with the X7 (i.e Sunderland, Peterlee and Middlesbrough) while the rest of the route is different hence there was no reason for Arriva to intervene.

3. GNE introduced the X84/5 after the OK1 was withdrawn after noticing a gap in the market and the large amounts of complaints Arriva had been getting with regards to the 685. Since its introduction the 685 as far as I'm aware seems to be becoming a less popular option with many opting for GNE over Arriva. Suprisingly Arriva have chosen not to retaliate likley because just like Arriva in Darlington, GNE have a network in Hexham and more services than Arriva from Newcastle. As a result I can see Arriva choosing to abandon the 685 in the future allowing either Stagecoach Carlisle and Stagecoach Newcastle to operate the service jointly or even for GNE and Stagecoach to operate it jointly!

4. Arriva introduced the service 51 in order to replace the X6 and a stretch of the 53 along with changes to the 54 and 306. Arriva realised the potential to extend a stretch of a previous route to Newcastle by the same route as GNE 307 as it only ran hourly, terminated at Benton Asda and it started later and finished earlier. Unsuprisingly GNE have chosen not to retaliate as it is not one of their major services and is carried along by the 17 and a scholars contract and as the contract has been lost I imagine will be withdrawn pretty soon.

Result:
OK1 vs X1=GNE withdrew the OK1.
X7 vs 21A/23/24=No issues as there was no identical or similar Arriva service to the X7 hence all services mentioned are still operating.
685 vs X84/5=At the moment nothing but in the future I predict something major will happen.
51 vs 307=I imagine GNE will withdraw the 307 in the near future.

I can't actually remember what the reasoning was - I don't think it was to do with the competition by GNE at all though - but I do remember being told a few months back that Stagecoach were quite interested in operating the service alone without ANE. I also remember being told that their main interest was between Carlisle and Hexham, with the Hexham to Newcastle stretch being far less popular.

I was told to keep quiet about it at the time, but I'll dig through my messages to find more specific details and see if I can add more...

I doubt anything will come of it soon though, given the investment from Stagecoach Cumbria & North Lancs of two vehicles into the full 685s and one into the short 685s. I guess we'll be waiting until at least next year - and that's if Arriva were willing to hand over their share of the 685 (at a price?)

(10 Jul 2014, 9:21 pm)Dan wrote I can't actually remember what the reasoning was - I don't think it was to do with the competition by GNE at all though - but I do remember being told a few months back that Stagecoach were quite interested in operating the service alone without ANE. I also remember being told that their main interest was between Carlisle and Hexham, with the Hexham to Newcastle stretch being far less popular.

I was told to keep quiet about it at the time, but I'll dig through my messages to find more specific details and see if I can add more...

I doubt anything will come of it soon though, given the investment from Stagecoach Cumbria & North Lancs of two vehicles into the full 685s and one into the short 685s. I guess we'll be waiting until at least next year - and that's if Arriva were willing to hand over their share of the 685 (at a price?)

In my opinion SIC operate a much better service than Arriva. I'd like to see Stagecoach take over the whole service, and I'd imagine that some would be operated by Walkergate if that was the case.

(10 Jul 2014, 9:03 pm)peter wrote There are countless examples of GNE and Arriva going head to head recently with the major examples being the OK1 vs X1, X7 vs 21A/23/24, 685 vs X84/5 and 51 vs 307.

1. When the OK1 was introduced Arriva were bound to retaliate because they are the primary operator in Darlington (operating all routes except for a couple by Scarlet Band and Dales and District) and are obviously very protective over it as it will likely make them a heap of cash. As a result about a month after the OK1 the X1 was introduced which departed exactly two minutes before the OK1 at Darlington, Bishop Auckland and Crook. Arriva also had the advantage of already having a network and thus connections in Darlington. Thanks to this GNE revised the route of the OK1 to run from Bishop Auckland to Middlesbrough while Arriva extended one journey per hour to Tow Law and kept one journey terminating at Crook in place of service 1 which was revised to terminate at Bishop Auckland (meaning technically the number of Arriva buses to Crook was reduced once again to one every half an hour). Despite this the OK1 was still no match for Arriva and was withdrawn.

2. GNE introduced the X7 linking their Sunderland and Peterlee networks with Middlesbrough in order to create a new service linking these places and thus filling a gap in the market. Unsuprisingly Arriva chose not to retaliate as the X7 is not the the exactly same as any routes they run only sharing similarities with routes 21A, 23 and 24 though these only share main stopping points in common with the X7 (i.e Sunderland, Peterlee and Middlesbrough) while the rest of the route is different hence there was no reason for Arriva to intervene.

3. GNE introduced the X84/5 after the OK1 was withdrawn after noticing a gap in the market and the large amounts of complaints Arriva had been getting with regards to the 685. Since its introduction the 685 as far as I'm aware seems to be becoming a less popular option with many opting for GNE over Arriva. Suprisingly Arriva have chosen not to retaliate likley because just like Arriva in Darlington, GNE have a network in Hexham and more services than Arriva from Newcastle. As a result I can see Arriva choosing to abandon the 685 in the future allowing either Stagecoach Carlisle and Stagecoach Newcastle to operate the service jointly or even for GNE and Stagecoach to operate it jointly!

4. Arriva introduced the service 51 in order to replace the X6 and a stretch of the 53 along with changes to the 54 and 306. Arriva realised the potential to extend a stretch of a previous route to Newcastle by the same route as GNE 307 as it only ran hourly, terminated at Benton Asda and it started later and finished earlier. Unsuprisingly GNE have chosen not to retaliate as it is not one of their major services and is carried along by the 17 and a scholars contract and as the contract has been lost I imagine will be withdrawn pretty soon.

Result:
OK1 vs X1=GNE withdrew the OK1.
X7 vs 21A/23/24=No issues as there was no identical or similar Arriva service to the X7 hence all services mentioned are still operating.
685 vs X84/5=At the moment nothing but in the future I predict something major will happen.
51 vs 307=I imagine GNE will withdraw the 307 in the near future.

Lets not forget about the Bargain Bus?

(10 Jul 2014, 9:31 pm)Tom wrote In my opinion SIC operate a much better service than Arriva. I'd like to see Stagecoach take over the whole service, and I'd imagine that some would be operated by Walkergate if that was the case.

More likely to be ran by Slatyford rather then Walkergate with it been a West End route. Also Slatyford have in the past supplied breakdown cover for Stagecoach Cumbria, renowned for producing a Dart.

I can imagine that if GNE were to go between Hexham and Carlisle that they'd probably upgrade to B8RLE's and extend the X85 to Carlisle from Hexham.

Ex-Driver Training Volvo B10M 7076: R139 ABT (previously YSU 876) has been sold to Nightingale Coaches, Stanley.

Don't Nightingale Coaches have a Few ex GNE buses too still?

(11 Jul 2014, 4:38 pm)Racer_Experience wrote Ex-Driver Training Volvo B10M 7076: R139 ABT (previously YSU 876) has been sold to Nightingale Coaches, Stanley.

Don't Nightingale Coaches have a Few ex GNE buses too still?

4x NC Palatine bodied Volvo Olympians. R263LGH, R554LGH, R392LGH, and P818SGP.

(11 Jul 2014, 4:38 pm)Racer_Experience wrote Ex-Driver Training Volvo B10M 7076: R139 ABT (previously YSU 876) has been sold to Nightingale Coaches, Stanley.

Don't Nightingale Coaches have a Few ex GNE buses too still?

Just as a little side-note, the Friday update opposed to the usual Monday update is thanks to Go North East helping me out with a few enquiries in regards to our fleet list vehicle history section for each vehicle.

Unfortunately, GNE has no electronic data to record movements prior to January 2003 - otherwise they would have been included in the Fleet Archive. Paper-based copies were presumably disposed of over the years, prior to 2003. GNE does still have paper-based copies of movement sheets which date back to the 1960/70s, but they cannot be shared on the public domain - only the information which is contained within them. As they're in storage at Chester-le-Street opposed to Bensham, we'd probably be waiting a while before we could get answers for any specific enquiries we may have had in regards to these vehicles.

Can anyone please supply me with a list of arrival & departure times of GNE operated National Express services from Newcastle between 1200 and 1730 weekdays ?

4900 has now returned to Stanley following repaint and 4976 likewise to Deptford.

(11 Jul 2014, 5:54 pm)Dan wrote 4900 has now returned to Stanley following repaint and 4976 likewise to Deptford.

That's the one I need to get out of the former lime branded renowns got 4899 today the latest photos for my Flickr they will be up shortly after weatherfield all got the copyright notices on

(09 Jul 2014, 6:01 pm)Michael wrote Service 265 - Durham Miners' Gala

On Saturday we'll be duplicating the following journeys on our 265 service for Durham Miners' Gala.

Murton to Durham - 09:20, 10:20, 11:20 & 12:20.

Durham Claypath to Murton - 17:18 & 18:21.

Just seen a 265 on it's way to Durham, nothing duplicating it, unless there is another vehicle not far behind


EDIT
No sooner had I finished that post within 3 minutes I saw the duplicate...A decker, tho could not I'd it lol

(12 Jul 2014, 9:34 am)marxistafozzski wrote Just seen a 265 on it's way to Durham, nothing duplicating it, unless there is another vehicle not far behind


EDIT
No sooner had I finished that post within 3 minutes I saw the duplicate...A decker, tho could not I'd it lol

Volvo B7TL/East Lancs Vyking 3982 is working for Peterlee today.

Had my first ride on a Versa yesterday (Citylink). They're lovely buses and feel very comfortable and well built. I certainly think that GNE should consider some for Toon Link. On another note, GNE need to update Connections 4 and Citylink with the Heart Radio logo. Real Radio no longer exists.

8250 still seems to have blank side and rear destination screens.

The rear destination screens still don't display right when Solars work the 4. Top and bottom lines look cropped.

(12 Jul 2014, 9:45 am)Dan wrote Volvo B7TL/East Lancs Vyking 3982 is working for Peterlee today.

I'd of thought Deptford would of just operated it. Peterlee drivers going up in the world MPD's to B10's to Mercs now they getting deckers too! Not that the Vykings are exactly great or powerful vehicles!

(12 Jul 2014, 10:33 am)aureolin wrote 8250 still seems to have blank side and rear destination screens.

The rear destination screens still don't display right when Solars work the 4. Top and bottom lines look cropped.

With regards to the Cadet, I'd suggest that only one or two actually have fully working frontal, side and rear destination displays.

The rest have blank side/rear destination displays.