(15 Jul 2014, 6:55 pm)tyresmoke wrote The City bus in Leeds isn't free any more, 50p single fare on that one for the last year or so... Free with most day tickets or rail ticket etc.

I didn't use the one in Leeds hence why I still assumed it was Free, like the ones in Wakefield and Bradford which I did use.

(15 Jul 2014, 6:54 pm)aureolin wrote See I'd still have classed anyone pre-paying for their travel with multi journey tickets as 1 fare paying customer each?

That's why they're not classed as one fare paying customer - they use it across multiple journeys.
Any day or weekly ticket can't be classed as a full single fare for that reason - as it's not.

As mentioned in the "Rare & Odd Workings" thread, Volvo B7TL 3983 has transferred from Chester-le-Street to Deptford to alleviate temporary vehicle shortages - this is why Dennis Trident 3869 arrived back at Chester-le-Street this morning.

Go North East: 3983 / PJ02PZL by danielgrahamm, on Flickr

(15 Jul 2014, 7:15 pm)Dan wrote That's why they're not classed as one fare paying customer - they use it across multiple journeys.
Any day or weekly ticket can't be classed as a full single fare for that reason - as it's not.

Is that used when passenger loadings are looked at for reductions in service do you know? For example if the first 21 of the day carries 15 buzzfare holders on a short run from Chester to Durham. Is that seen as 15 passengers or 6?

(15 Jul 2014, 7:19 pm)aureolin wrote Is that used when passenger loadings are looked at for reductions in service do you know? For example if the first 21 of the day carries 15 buzzfare holders on a short run from Chester to Durham. Is that seen as 15 passengers or 6?

I'm not 100% on this one, but I highly doubt they'll use the same 'guesstimate' system that we're using to judge passenger numbers - I'm sure they'll have more effective methods in place.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:25 pm)Dan wrote I'm not 100% on this one, but I highly doubt they'll use the same 'guesstimate' system that we're using to judge passenger numbers - I'm sure they'll have more effective methods in place.

I wonder if anyone has done the whole 17, 19 or 50 routes on here? - I couldn't stand that personally, but has anyone noted the loadings on there?

(15 Jul 2014, 7:26 pm)Tom wrote I wonder if anyone has done the whole 17, 19 or 50 routes on here? - I couldn't stand that personally, but has anyone noted the loadings on there?

I've done the whole 19 route on a regular basis (albeit typically only in one direction) and have done the whole 50 route once. I've not done the whole 17 route yet (and doubt I ever will), but I've never thought to note the loadings.

Should be able to do it next month though.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:29 pm)Dan wrote I've done the whole 19 route on a regular basis (albeit typically only in one direction) and have done the whole 50 route once. I've not done the whole 17 route yet (and doubt I ever will), but I've never thought to note the loadings.

Should be able to do it next month though.

Just curious to see what they are like, as from what I've seen they have been poor - 17 has decent loads at certain times of the day though.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:30 pm)Tom wrote Just curious to see what they are like, as from what I've seen they have been poor - 17 has decent loads at certain times of the day though.

You should do the 17 there and back if you have time one day, being from up that way. When I do it, I just list all the stops in the timetable (rather than every stop, and note down how many ENCTS holders and non-ENCTS holders are on board at each point. Simple, but works for me, and I've managed to sample a good handful of journeys so far this year doing so.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:26 pm)Tom wrote I wonder if anyone has done the whole 17, 19 or 50 routes on here? - I couldn't stand that personally, but has anyone noted the loadings on there?

50 is always busy when I use it, Particularly during the Summer Months if the Weather is Nice, then it get rammed.

I've not done the Full Route in one Journey, But I have Lambton to Durham and Lambton South Shields on Numerous Occasions in the Past.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:38 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote 50 is always busy when I use it, Particularly during the Summer Months if the Weather is Nice, then it get rammed.

I've not done the Full Route in one Journey, But I have Lambton to Durham and Lambton South Shields on Numerous Occasions in the Past.

The last time I used it from Chester to Concord it wasn't very busy. I was the only fare paying passenger on the bus (only 90p) until Washington where there were about three fare paying passengers.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:45 pm)Tom wrote The last time I used it from Chester to Concord it wasn't very busy. I was the only fare paying passenger on the bus (only 90p) until Washington where there were about three fare paying passengers.

Most passengers get on the 4 at Washington Galleries to Concord rather than get the 50 to be Honest, suppose it depends on the time of Day really.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:15 pm)Dan wrote That's why they're not classed as one fare paying customer - they use it across multiple journeys.
Any day or weekly ticket can't be classed as a full single fare for that reason - as it's not.

So going back to the ad122, on average, it has 122 passengers a day.
If the majority of those passengers are doing a return trip, that is only 61 people on average using the ad122.

I imagine decisions are made on revenue, rather than just bums on seats (hence the withdrawal of late x1's - which carried decent loads, but took very little in the way of cash).

There have been discussions in the past, relating to the diluting of a day/week ticket and how the revenue is split.
I imagine a service like the m2/m3 will attract people from the estates - who purchase the multizone tickets.
Connecting services such as the 4, 21 or x1 won't see the financial benefit from those specific tickets, but will make their own revenues from tickets sold on those services.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:49 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Most passengers get on the 4 at Washington Galleries to Concord rather than get the 50 to be Honest, suppose it depends on the time of Day really.

Must admit the prices between the villages are steep. £3.20 from Chester to Ayton is a rip off if you ask me.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:38 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote 50 is always busy when I use it, Particularly during the Summer Months if the Weather is Nice, then it get rammed.

I've not done the Full Route in one Journey, But I have Lambton to Durham and Lambton South Shields on Numerous Occasions in the Past.

I've used it once from Durham to South Shields, and loads between either Durham and Washington or Washington and South Shields.

Durham gets a good load, which has generally died down by the time it gets to Arnison Centre, then Waldridge, and then finally Chester le Street. Another load is picked up at Chester, and then dropped off at Ayton, Lambton and then the Galleries. The Galleries gets another decent load, which generally dies down by the time it reaches Concord and then Sulgrave. From Sulgrave onwards, it's pretty dead until Boldon ASDA, where you tend to pick up a few there and a few more on the way to Shields.

I'd say Durham - Washington is definately ther busier end of the route.

(15 Jul 2014, 6:28 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Imagine if the tickets were reasonably priced for people living in the region?
Numbers could have been even higher!

But, as we've kind of discussed on here before, there was a chunky funding cut and the decision between the remaining partners was to charge more tourist bus type of fares to make up the missing dosh - there's been some great feedback from customers using the service and from the other partners on the promotional effort that's been put in, especially at very short notice.

All in all, it's doing really well and there's lots of ideas to make it better again, but it is much more of a tourist bus than a local service bus and there is a crucial difference (and not just in the prices charged !).

(15 Jul 2014, 7:49 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Most passengers get on the 4 at Washington Galleries to Concord rather than get the 50 to be Honest, suppose it depends on the time of Day really.

Have you noticed it seems to be different in the opposite direction?

I wonder if the stand allocations make a difference?

(15 Jul 2014, 7:52 pm)busman101 wrote But, as we've kind of discussed on here before, there was a chunky funding cut and the decision between the remaining partners was to charge more tourist bus type of fares to make up the missing dosh - there's been some great feedback from customers using the service and from the other partners on the promotional effort that's been put in, especially at very short notice.

All in all, it's doing really well and there's lots of ideas to make it better again, but it is much more of a tourist bus than a local service bus and there is a crucial difference (and not just in the prices charged !).

Not knocking the effort that was put into launching the service at all - it has been much more prominent than in previous years and I know we touched on the fares in the past.

What I was trying to say, was that 'tourist fares', may/will put off locals who would add to the people using it already.

It doesn't take much, for word of mouth to get around.
Imagine me telling other FPF members about the great, affordable day out using the bus to visit Hadrians Wall?
Imagine me telling other FPF members about the great bus operation that is set up to visit Hadrians Wall, but is more expensive than taking the car?

We both know which option most people (including tourists) would take.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:55 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Have you noticed it seems to be different in the opposite direction?

I wonder if the stand allocations make a difference?

Yeah - I'd imagine it would because people are far more likely to go for the more frequent 4 in comparison to the 50.

(15 Jul 2014, 8:00 pm)Tom wrote Yeah - I'd imagine it would because people are far more likely to go for the more frequent 4 in comparison to the 50.

At the Galleries, although the stops aren't too far apart, most people will wait for a frequent 4.

At Concord, the stands are the same (if memory serves me right), so most people will just go to the stop and jump on the first bus.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:49 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Most passengers get on the 4 at Washington Galleries to Concord rather than get the 50 to be Honest, suppose it depends on the time of Day really.

During the day, there's a good handful that get it because they know that the X1/4 queue becomes chaos. It really was a mistake not putting a second set of doors in those two big stands.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:55 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Have you noticed it seems to be different in the opposite direction?

I wonder if the stand allocations make a difference?

Depends on if the 50 comes in before the 4 and vice versa - for example, Myself Personally on Several Occasions, I got off the 4 at Concord heading towards The Galleries, and got on the 50 straight to Lambton.

I have also noticed that if the 4 is in and there taking the mickey changing Drivers, then everyone will get on the 50 instead at Concord towards The Galleries.

(15 Jul 2014, 7:55 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Have you noticed it seems to be different in the opposite direction?

I wonder if the stand allocations make a difference?


Not knocking the effort that was put into launching the service at all - it has been much more prominent than in previous years and I know we touched on the fares in the past.

What I was trying to say, was that 'tourist fares', may/will put off locals who would add to the people using it already.

It doesn't take much, for word of mouth to get around.
Imagine me telling other FPF members about the great, affordable day out using the bus to visit Hadrians Wall?
Imagine me telling other FPF members about the great bus operation that is set up to visit Hadrians Wall, but is more expensive than taking the car?

We both know which option most people (including tourists) would take.

I take the point on the fares and the views of what local people might think, but a huge number of users on the route are out of the area and a huge chunk are from outside the country. The car point is also a good one as there's a £4 parking charge at all the National Park sites along the Wall.

On your other comment on the passenger numbers, there's a lot of people who are using the bus for a short hop after having walked a bit along the Wall - there's loads of singles from Housesteads to Once Brewed as an example and you only see them once. Equally, there's a few using the day tickets (including the + version) and each time they board they count as a passenger.

AD122:-

I believe that concessionary (pensioners) passes are accepted on AD122 (they were last year).

Some passengers from outside the region will have pensioners passes.

Does the operator get a percentage (is this half?) of the full (tourist) fare?

(15 Jul 2014, 8:13 pm)busman101 wrote I take the point on the fares and the views of what local people might think, but a huge number of users on the route are out of the area and a huge chunk are from outside the country. The car point is also a good one as there's a £4 parking charge at all the National Park sites along the Wall.

On your other comment on the passenger numbers, there's a lot of people who are using the bus for a short hop after having walked a bit along the Wall - there's loads of singles from Housesteads to Once Brewed as an example and you only see them once. Equally, there's a few using the day tickets (including the + version) and each time they board they count as a passenger.

£25/30 petrol + £4 parking is still cheaper (and more practical) than the £37 it would cost me on the bus using the £25 family ticket AND a bog standard family ticket on top.
Tourists in their cars staying closer to the wall, will obviously incur an even smaller fuel cost (compared to the cheapest ticket and parking).

Honestly, the potential is massive with this one.
GNE have the buy in, audience and corporate backing that previous operators didn't have.

I don't know margins or anything like that on the service, but say GNE offered a £30 ad122 Day Rover+, which extended across the GNE patch. I reckon passenger numbers (and ticket sales) would go through the roof.

It is still a few quid more than a trip to the coast and I would love to see it closer to the £25 mark (twice the price of a normal family ticket), but it is more attractive.
Heck, villagers on the route could even apply for a special Key Card, reduced in price tickets - but restricted to residents within a certain postcode.

(15 Jul 2014, 8:26 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote £25/30 petrol + £4 parking is still cheaper (and more practical) than the £37 it would cost me on the bus using the £25 family ticket AND a bog standard family ticket on top.
Tourists in their cars staying closer to the wall, will obviously incur an even smaller fuel cost (compared to the cheapest ticket and parking).

Honestly, the potential is massive with this one.
GNE have the buy in, audience and corporate backing that previous operators didn't have.

I don't know margins or anything like that on the service, but say GNE offered a £30 ad122 Day Rover+, which extended across the GNE patch. I reckon passenger numbers (and ticket sales) would go through the roof.

It is still a few quid more than a trip to the coast and I would love to see it closer to the £25 mark (twice the price of a normal family ticket), but it is more attractive.
Heck, villagers on the route could even apply for a special Key Card, reduced in price tickets - but restricted to residents within a certain postcode.

You never know what might happen in the future & again we agree (make notes please) on the potential - it's not massive, but there's a lot more that could be done with it with a bit of planning and forethought - there's lots of notes already and the list groweth !

(15 Jul 2014, 8:34 pm)busman101 wrote You never know what might happen in the future & again we agree (make notes please) on the potential - it's not massive, but there's a lot more that could be done with it with a bit of planning and forethought - there's lots of notes already and the list groweth !

Good stuff.
Get the ad122 starting in Fencehouses and we're sorted

(15 Jul 2014, 8:39 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Good stuff.
Get the ad122 starting in Fencehouses and we're sorted

Via The Galleries, of course?

Is it Fence Houses, Fencehouses, or both? As a member of the FPF, do you believe both to be acceptable?

(15 Jul 2014, 8:39 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Good stuff.
Get the ad122 starting in Fencehouses and we're sorted

Give over with that idea of it going via the Galleries - it's gannin' via Lumley if its gannin' anywhere - after its done Avenue Vivian of course !!!

(15 Jul 2014, 9:03 pm)BJ10VUS wrote Via The Galleries, of course?

Is it Fence Houses, Fencehouses, or both? As a member of the FPF, do you believe both to be acceptable?

If Malarkey gets his hands on it: Lambton, Galleries, Consett, Derwent Reservoir...

We ain't precious about the name of the place - just a decent, affordable transport network and possibly the return of the Fencehouses signal box (got burned down by an arsonist).

(15 Jul 2014, 9:21 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote If Malarkey gets his hands on it: Lambton, Galleries, Consett, Derwent Reservoir...

We ain't precious about the name of the place - just a decent, affordable transport network and possibly the return of the Fencehouses signal box (got burned down by an arsonist).

I'll settle for Lambton and The Galleries, don't fancy a Trip via Hill Billy Land