(11 Sep 2014, 5:30 pm)Robert wrote Think people seem to be forgetting that these zone tickets are day tickets that can be used on all services within those zones. They are not designed to be used as singles and returns...no wonder people are classing it as a rip off.

Exactly, and the return fares are not a lot cheaper than the day tickets so that more and more customers fork out the extra pennies. Arriva North East certainly do this too.

(11 Sep 2014, 5:30 pm)Tom wrote Parking is free though. So 20p cheaper using the car.
ANE are a lot cheaper than GNE in some instances, as I think a return on the X1/X2 from Newcastle to Middlesbrough was £6.50, although it takes 30 minutes longer.

Parking is free? Depends where you go, how long you're staying there, etc... In a lot of places, it's not free.

Despite the cheaper fares, the X2 (connecting for the X1) is still quieter than the Tyne Tees Xpress! Go North East must be doing something right, eh?

(11 Sep 2014, 5:34 pm)Dan wrote Exactly, and the return fares are not a lot cheaper than the day tickets so that more and more customers fork out the extra pennies. Arriva North East certainly do this too.


Parking is free? Depends where you go, how long you're staying there, etc... In a lot of places, it's not free.

Despite the cheaper fares, the X2 (connecting for the X1) is still quieter than the Tyne Tees Xpress! Go North East must be doing something right, eh?

Arriva often charge the same on there services.
A return on the TTX is £7.70.

(11 Sep 2014, 5:30 pm)Tom wrote Parking is free though. So 20p cheaper using the car.
ANE are a lot cheaper than GNE in some instances, as I think a return on the X1/X2 from Newcastle to Middlesbrough was £6.50, although it takes 30 minutes longer.

don't forget it you go by car, then you have to purchase the car, MOT and service the car, insurance for the car, and the cost of Petrol.

go by bus then you only have to pay the fare.

(11 Sep 2014, 5:35 pm)Tom wrote Arriva often charge the same on there services.
A return on the TTX is £7.70.

It goes without saying that forking out 20p for the extra convenience of being able to hop back on the bus again is the reason why most passengers will opt for the day ticket instead...

I'm not sure about Stagecoach, but Arriva certainly uses this tactic too. It's not foreign to other operators in the UK either.

(11 Sep 2014, 5:37 pm)cbma06 wrote don't forget it you go by car, then you have to purchase the car, MOT and service the car, insurance for the car, and the cost of Petrol.

go by bus then you only have to pay the fare.

Indeed, and those who were using the bus every single day would be entitled to buy tickets for a longer duration than a day, to allow for even bigger discounts!

An annual 3+ Zone BuzzFare costs £1048.50, which equates to less than £3 per day to travel. Bargain, eh?

(11 Sep 2014, 5:27 pm)Dan wrote 19 miles - costing £3.35 - using the same figures as above.
Accounting for the return journey, plus the cost of parking, the £7.90 day ticket still works out at much better value.

And it would even better Value if that £1.70 was knocked off due to Marginally serving the Red Zone, I honestly wouldn't be that bothered if was say 30p, but £1.70 is just overly excessive in my opinion, clearly it has a massive effect on the Profits that the TTX makes also, no doubt there other Examples across the Region with other Services, here's hoping QCS is put in place Next Month.

(11 Sep 2014, 5:34 pm)Dan wrote Despite the cheaper fares, the X2 (connecting for the X1) is still quieter than the Tyne Tees Xpress! Go North East must be doing something right, eh?

That's probably because the X1/X2 takes 50 minutes longer, how tight would you have to be to sit on that for that much longer.

(11 Sep 2014, 5:37 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote And it would even better Value if that £1.70 was knocked off due to Marginally serving the Red Zone, I honestly wouldn't be that bothered if was say 30p, but £1.70 is just overly excessive in my opinion, clearly it has a massive effect on the Profits that the TTX makes also, no doubt there other Examples across the Region with other Services, here's hoping QCS is put in place Next Month.

Its to keep in with the system. Its something which i doubt will be changing any time soon.

(11 Sep 2014, 5:37 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote And it would even better Value if that £1.70 was knocked off due to Marginally serving the Red Zone, I honestly wouldn't be that bothered if was say 30p, but £1.70 is just overly excessive in my opinion, clearly it has a massive effect on the Profits that the TTX makes also, no doubt there other Examples across the Region with other Services, here's hoping QCS is put in place Next Month.

Im supporting the QCS, but even if their do say yes towards the scheme, then its still going to take a few years before it all starts off and the X9/X10 will be staying with GNE control and not be under the QCS.

(11 Sep 2014, 5:37 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote And it would even better Value if that £1.70 was knocked off due to Marginally serving the Red Zone, I honestly wouldn't be that bothered if was say 30p, but £1.70 is just overly excessive in my opinion, clearly it has a massive effect on the Profits that the TTX makes also, no doubt there other Examples across the Region with other Services, here's hoping QCS is put in place Next Month.

Profits would be heavily dented, though. Why should the Tyne Tees Xpress services be excluded from the zonal structure?

In this example, that £1.70 allows you to travel an extra 32 miles (ie something that would cost more than £5.50 in a car). Are you suggesting that it would be feasible to allow the same, but for an extra 30p?

Was the Tyne Tees Xpress included within the Quality Contracts Scheme? As profits could (and likely would) go down in this scheme, who's to say that these companies wouldn't increase their fares on the services excluded from this scheme to help raise profits?

(11 Sep 2014, 5:39 pm)Jimmi wrote That's probably because the X1/X2 takes 50 minutes longer, how tight would you have to be to sit on that for that much longer.

Exactly - you pay for convenience, much like the train.

(11 Sep 2014, 5:43 pm)cbma06 wrote Im supporting the QCS, but even if their do say yes towards the scheme, then its still going to take a few years before it all starts off and the X9/X10 will be staying with GNE control and not be under the QCS.

Yes, a lot of legal battles will take place before the commencement of Quality Contracts, if it does go ahead.
Guess we'll be forking out an extra £1.70 for travelling into a third BuzzFare zone for a little while longer, eh?

(11 Sep 2014, 5:13 pm)Dan wrote Yes - you regularly quote that line sarcastically when something could be perceived as slightly confusing, with regards to pricing, zonal structures, etc. An antonym of 'simple' is 'confusing' or 'complicated', hence my posts.

In this instance, it is simple; nothing is confusing, nor complicated.

Nobody said it was complicated though. Nobody said it was confusing...

If quoting an oft used GNE phrase (as others have done on here) implies something (according to you), then get yourself away and analyse it to your hearts content.
Presumably, we all know what antonym means - but hey, if we start using antonyms on everything, everyone says, we would be here all day!

As I said before.
#mountains
#molehills
#hashtagsonNEB

(11 Sep 2014, 5:37 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote And it would even better Value if that £1.70 was knocked off due to Marginally serving the Red Zone, I honestly wouldn't be that bothered if was say 30p, but £1.70 is just overly excessive in my opinion, clearly it has a massive effect on the Profits that the TTX makes also, no doubt there other Examples across the Region with other Services, here's hoping QCS is put in place Next Month.

Glad to see you jumping on board the QCS bandwagon Malarkey.
Have you made your vote count in the all important QCS poll?

The whole consensus of this thread has been to argue whether Go North East's tickets are value for money or not, with the majority being negative, even though I'd argue this shouldn't be the case. It's the same with other positive experiences, whether it be a positive Customer Services experience, a positive journey, whatever... We always remember the bad things, but very rarely discuss the good things. We've had very few examples of pricing "anonomles" from other operators, but that's usually the case anyway...

This has led to posts in the past which have directly said that the ticketing system is complex (/complicated/confusing), whilst others have merely given examples of a price and why they disagree with it, where the lines 'I don't get how', 'I don't understand why' and similar have often been used.

Adam seemed confused as to why passengers were being 'done out of £1.70', even though they aren't, due to the fact there is a stop at Testo's Roundabout near Boldon which is in the Red Zone and this consequently means that passengers have to pay for tickets which go through all three zones.

You used this as an opportunity to quote a line Go North East has done in the past: 'simplified pricing structures'. By my 'anaylsis', I have concluded that this was most definitely a tongue in cheek remark which reflects the opinions you've demonstrated throughout this thread. The BuzzFare model, as a whole, is successful and not particularly confusing at all. Granted, it is not as simple as standard flat fare systems which other operators have in place, but Go North East couldn't do this due to the vast array of services which they operate that are of a different nature. Whilst delivering value for money in a lot of cases (just see the few posts from yesterday in which I detailed how a three zone BuzzFare is indeed value for money when compared against the car), the model can and does deliver profits to the company.

(11 Sep 2014, 3:30 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Has anybody else realized that when buying a Day Ticket on the X9/X10 that your been done out of £1.70, merely due to the fact that those Services serve Testos Roundabout which is in the Red Zone, In reality it should only be £6.20 rather than £7.90 as the few Occasions I have used the Service it hasn't stopped there at all, Was checking how many Zones there were along the route as I am considering going to the Stockton Depot Open Day on the 28th, GNE's Profits must be High on the TTX as a Result.

I have been on the X10 when it has left the A19 at the Nissan turn off and gone via Washington towards the Black Bull at Wardley.due to traffic delays near testos. So the bus has not even gone in to the red zone but customers were charged the £1.70 extra.
If GNE want to charge this £1.70 for just touching the red zone then they need to play fait and refund the £1.70 when they divert via Washington.

(11 Sep 2014, 5:30 pm)Tom wrote Parking is free though. So 20p cheaper using the car.
ANE are a lot cheaper than GNE in some instances, as I think a return on the X1/X2 from Newcastle to Middlesbrough was £6.50, although it takes 30 minutes longer.

I agree that ANE are cheaper / better value as their NE day saver is only £7.50 and that ticket could get you from Berwick to North Yorkshire if you were willing to sit on a X15, X2, X1 and X93 for the best part of a day.

Similar travel times from Middlesbrough to Newcastle by train..........£13.80 anytime return!

(12 Sep 2014, 8:51 am)GuyParkRoyal wrote I have been on the X10 when it has left the A19 at the Nissan turn off and gone via Washington towards the Black Bull at Wardley.due to traffic delays near testos. So the bus has not even gone in to the red zone but customers were charged the £1.70 extra.
If GNE want to charge this £1.70 for just touching the red zone then they need to play fait and refund the £1.70 when they divert via Washington.

A fair point I suppose although I'd argue since services X9/X10 traverse the entire Red Zone, north to south, the zone should be included in ticketing regardless of whether the bus stops or not.

My gripe about Buzzfare zones is the slimmer of green inserted between Linzford (Purple) and Hamsterley Mill (Cherry) which lasts all of one stop with no other buses, except from services 45 and 46, stopping. It is possible to catch service X71 from another stop located within the vicinity however it's unlikely that anyone uses this connection, partially because it's not advertised as such but mostly because the end destination points are the same. Arguably, at Testo, passengers have a greater choice of destinations.

(12 Sep 2014, 8:57 am)RM2186 wrote Similar travel times from Middlesbrough to Newcastle by train..........£13.80 anytime return!

And the bus is cheaper by a good £5.10.

How much is a single from Park lane to Concord?

Edit: Never mind plans have changed! 

Interesting discussion on GNE's Facebook page about two bus services charging two different sets of fares from the same bus stop.

Of course, we've seen discussions like this before regarding differing fares on services between Newcastle/Gateshead and Wrekenton.

The difference in this example is that such fare anomalies are occurring on the same family of services - in this case services 10A and 10B. 

Jayne Cuskern‎ Go North East
15 hrs · 

Please can you let me know how much it is to get the bus from dale view gardens crawcrook to Ryton as I have always paid £1.50 but now the drivers are saying its £2 and only £1.50 from the lambs arms seems a huge jump sd they are on the same road? ??

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  Jayne Cuskern I've been in touch with them a few times they always say its £ 1.50 but the 10b class that stop as Prudhoe which is the problem that's why I need something solid to show the drivers as they didn't believe ne when I said gne had said
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    Go North East Sorry, I'm afraid this is due to the structure of the fare stages. It's £2 on the 10B and £1.50 on the 10A. It's £1.50 from the Lambs Arms on either service.
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    Sharon Dixon This is not right, totally unjustified. The HEXHAM 10 bus did the same journey past our area yet we did not pay to go to Prudhoe on the 10. The machines need changing.. the fare stage has always been to the end of our village even on the 10b. You give us a bus we need to pay more to use than one of your other buses.
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    Jayne Cuskern But why does the fare stage change at the lambs surely it should be the first stop in the village / county
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    Go North East I can certainly pass your suggestion onto our commercial team for consideration when the fare structures are next reviewed.
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    Jayne Cuskern Should we not have been informed when the fare stage was moved from dale view to the lambs?
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    Sharon Dixon The truth is that the fare stage has not changed and should not need reviewing. It is an oversight when they changed the route surely.
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    Sharon Dixon Can you pass it on to the commercial team today as a matter of urgency.. how can you justify having two prices for the same journey. We need them to realise there has been an error. It is probably very easy to sort out.
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(03 Nov 2014, 10:16 am)AdamY wrote Interesting discussion on GNE's Facebook page about two bus services charging two different sets of fares from the same bus stop.

Of course, we've seen discussions like this before regarding differing fares on services between Newcastle/Gateshead and Wrekenton.

The difference in this example is that such fare anomalies are occurring on the same family of services - in this case services 10A and 10B. 

Not overly familiar with the routes, but does the route differ any? From the customers journeys between  Daleview Gardens Crawcrook & Ryton Do both 10A/10B follow exactly the same route? If they do then it's a disgrace that two different prices are charged. 

No, the routes don't differ. Both services follow the same route between Greenside Road in Crawcrook and Eldon Square via Ryton, Blaydon and Metrocentre.

While it doesn't make it right, I would be willing to bet there are anomalies like this all over the place.

(03 Nov 2014, 2:49 pm)tyresmoke wrote While it doesn't make it right, I would be willing to bet there are anomalies like this all over the place.

Not doubting it for a second. 

Indeed, many of GNE's pricing anomalies have been discussed within this thread. Using the Newcastle/Gateshead to Wrekenton examples, it has been suggested that these anomalies exist because of the end destination points. Although I don't necessarily agree with this line of reasoning, I am willing to accept the justification that the X1 falls under a different brand and represents some sort of premium, longer-distance service where fare-stages are more drawn out. However, in my view, if a service falls under the same brand these anomalies shoudn't really exist.

This highlights how passengers may arrive at the conclusion that fares in the region are confusing and complex. After all, as a passenger, you would expect to pay the same fare on the same group of services using the same brand name wouldn't you?

   

So once word gets about that one service is cheaper than the other, what's the betting loads decrease on the more expensive service?

I would love to see loads between Wrekenton and Gateshead on the 51/52 56 and x1 (particularly the latter two) - bearing in mind the different prices that exist.

With reference to the different fares on the 10A/10B and the impact it may have on one particular service, I'd imagine that the fare will be changed promptly (hopefully both to the cheaper fare rather than both to the more expensive fare)... This anomaly is unique to what we have discussed in the past, so I can't imagine it was actually intended...

With reference to the Wrekenton - Newcastle services, whether it's linked to the slightly faster journey, or the fact that service X1 runs to Eldon Square rather than New Bridge Street, it does seem more common (at least in my experience) for service X1 to receive more passengers at Wrekenton.
Would possibly be better to compare the 56 and X1 with the 28 and X25 rather than 51/52; in which case, on the Sunday just gone, I was the only passenger (out of approximately 15 waiting) who chose to use the 28 over the X1, when travelling to Newcastle from Wrekenton. Both arrived into Eldon Square at the same time.

(03 Nov 2014, 5:30 pm)Dan wrote With reference to the different fares on the 10A/10B and the impact it may have on one particular service, I'd imagine that the fare will be changed promptly (hopefully both to the cheaper fare rather than both to the more expensive fare)... This anomaly is unique to what we have discussed in the past, so I can't imagine it was actually intended...

With reference to the Wrekenton - Newcastle services, whether it's linked to the slightly faster journey, or the fact that service X1 runs to Eldon Square rather than New Bridge Street, it does seem more common (at least in my experience) for service X1 to receive more passengers at Wrekenton.
Would possibly be better to compare the 56 and X1 with the 28 and X25 rather than 51/52; in which case, on the Sunday just gone, I was the only passenger (out of approximately 15 waiting) who chose to use the 28 over the X1, when travelling to Newcastle from Wrekenton. Both arrived into Eldon Square at the same time.

I've this issue recently with Fares being more Expensive on one than it is on the other, in my case it's the 2A/2C and 8.

If I get the 8 at Washington Galleries due having to go the Bank for Money, it'll cost me £4.50 for a Day Return, but I decide to get on the 2A/2C then it'll cost me £4.70 for the same ticket, But if I do have Money on me to pay the fare and I get on the 2C at Lambton then again it only cost me £4.50, So I therefore question what the 20p Extra is for.

(03 Nov 2014, 6:13 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote I've this issue recently with Fares being more Expensive on one than it is on the other, in my case it's the 2A/2C and 8.

If I get the 8 at Washington Galleries due having to go the Bank for Money, it'll cost me £4.50 for a Day Return, but I decide to get on the 2A/2C then it'll cost me £4.70 for the same ticket, But if I do have Money on me to pay the fare and I get on the 2C at Lambton then again it only cost me £4.50, So I therefore question what the 20p Extra is for.

The 2A/2C and 8 are different services, using different routes, and the mileage is presumably higher between Washington and Sunderland on the 2A/2C than on the 8? Just a guess - but I think that's more acceptable than the 10A/10B scenario described above...

Not sure if that still applies, what with the different routing and all.

I've got the fare table here for the 2A/2C and the 8. Both are £4.50 return between the Galleries and Sunderland. Lambton to Sunderland return is also £4.50 on the 2C. Not sure where the £4.70 fare is coming from, as neither fare tables have any £4.70 return fares?

Wasn't sure where to post it but....

Oyster-style bus cards to be rolled out from 2015 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29871381

Move if in wrong place...

The different routings between services shouldn't have any bearing on the fares between two set points though? A good example is Stockton-Middlesbrough, on the X1/X66/etc direct services it costs £2.40. Our 17A, which goes via Thornaby and Acklam, is also £2.40 despite taking 3x as long

(03 Nov 2014, 8:10 pm)tyresmoke wrote The different routings between services shouldn't have any bearing on the fares between two set points though? A good example is Stockton-Middlesbrough, on the X1/X66/etc direct services it costs £2.40. Our 17A, which goes via Thornaby and Acklam, is also £2.40 despite taking 3x as long

It's nice to see some Arriva fares in a thread dominated by examples of GNE's fares.

Anyway, I'm in full agreement with you. Different routings between two set points shouldn't really have any bearing on fares.

The fact that GNE charge the same fare between Sunderland and Washington, according to Aureolin's faretable, only makes the example of different fares between Newcastle/Gateshead and Wrekenton even more puzzling.