Fun and games on 21 today firstly the 11.30am wingate jobcentre to peterlee was 7 minutes late into peterlee the driver said he had a problem with the bus number 4812
then on way back from peterlee should of been getting 4.01pm bus service 21 but the 3.01pm bus service 21 hadn't gone when i got off 24 from hartlepool at 3.15pm waited it did arrive and left at 3.27pm bus number 4804 driver said the bus he was suppose to have had to be changed which probaly was 4812 i helped him with route from peterlee bus station to wingate fir tree as he had not been route learned the new part of 21 i felt sorry for both drivers as 4812 was its first day in service on route 21
so lets see what happens tommorow

21 has been running late due to problems with buses and four way temporary traffic lights at North Road, Darlington.

Just me who thinks that these EcoCitys should have spent a few days on the 2/11 before been thrown in the deep end on the 21.

The 11am and 4pm service 21 left Peterlee bus station on time.

21 has been running late due to problems with buses and four way temporary traffic lights at North Road, Darlington.

Just me who thinks that these EcoCitys should have spent a few days on the 2/11 before been thrown in the deep end on the 21.

totally agree but on a sunday with just one bus per hour you could miss connections at peterlee by the way the 24 service was running very well today apart from the usual roadworks blackhall bank and blackhall rocks water mains work

The 11am and 4pm service 21 left Peterlee bus station on time.

Thankfully the 21 has a lengthy layover in Peterlee Bus Station on a Sunday, so if it arrives 10 minutes late it can still leave on-time.

The 11am and 4pm service 21 left Peterlee bus station on time.

well at least some of the day were on time i know  the 4pm past us in wellfield road about 3.40pm on its journey into peterlee so i knew it should come out on time the test will be on tomorrow 26 minutes from peterlee to sunderland on x21 observing all stops from ryhope into park lane but they must of timed it i hope the newr buses are faster because the other gas buses what were on 21 on sundays on bank holidays always ran late and didn't seem to have enough power time will tell

Thankfully the 21 has a lengthy layover in Peterlee Bus Station on a Sunday, so if it arrives 10 minutes late it can still leave on-time.

yes it 12 minutes so not to bad

well at least some of the day were on time i know  the 4pm past us in wellfield road about 3.40pm on its journey into peterlee so i knew it should come out on time the test will be on tomorrow 26 minutes from peterlee to sunderland on x21 observing all stops from ryhope into park lane but they must of timed it i hope the newr buses are faster because the other gas buses what were on 21 on sundays on bank holidays always ran late and didn't seem to have enough power time will tell

The other reason why the 21 often runs late on a Sunday is because it has less running time on Sundays, so it is harder to keep to the timetable for example if you end up with lots of passenger numbers like when I rode it on August bank holiday Monday it can fall behind time, thankfully it was only about 2 minutes late arriving in Peterlee.

Darlington services 5A, 7 and 8 also have this problem on a Sunday, the 5A often arrives in Newton Aycliffe about 5 minutes late and continues to run 5 minutes late until it reaches Darlington and makes the next bus late (now service 19 to Faverdale) Service 8 is the worst it has a tight timetable and unlike the 5A, 7 and 21 it doesn't have 10+ minutes to layover it has about 4 minutes in Spennymoor before heading back to Darlington and struggles to keep to the timetable.

I admit the EcoCitys are slow, I think the top speed is something like 52mph which should be fun down the A19, everything will be overtaking us probably even TTX Volvo B9TLs on the X9/X10

The other reason why the 21 often runs late on a Sunday is because it has less running time on Sundays, so it is harder to keep to the timetable for example if you end up with lots of passenger numbers like when I rode it on August bank holiday Monday it can fall behind time, thankfully it was only about 2 minutes late arriving in Peterlee.

Darlington services 5A, 7 and 8 also have this problem on a Sunday, the 5A often arrives in Newton Aycliffe about 5 minutes late and continues to run 5 minutes late until it reaches Darlington and makes the next bus late (now service 19 to Faverdale) Service 8 is the worst it has a tight timetable and unlike the 5A, 7 and 21 it doesn't have 10+ minutes to layover it has about 4 minutes in Spennymoor before heading back to Darlington and struggles to keep to the timetable.

I admit the EcoCitys are slow, I think the top speed is something like 52mph which should be fun down the A19, everything will be overtaking us probably even TTX Volvo B9TLs on the X9/X10

The new X21 EcoCity's have a different gearbox, have a far better power delivery and a higher limited top speed (60mph) so they shouldn't have any problems. Famous last words...

The new X21 EcoCity's have a different gearbox, have a far better power delivery and a higher limited top speed (60mph) so they shouldn't have any problems. Famous last words...

That's good, look forward to riding them down the A19. At least the Solos are off this route now you'd be deaf if you were subjected to one down the A19, the A689 between Rushyford and Sedgefield was bad enough.

What is the point in the current changes is the 24 the same route as the 22 from Hartlepool to Durham or is there changes to it ?

What is the point in the current changes is the 24 the same route as the 22 from Hartlepool to Durham or is there changes to it ?

Correct me if i am wrong, but As far as I am aware, the 24 is unchanged between Durham and Peterlee(Sherburn, Haswell, Shotton) and the 22 is unchanged between Durham and Peterlee(Thornley, Wingate, Shotton)...

What is the point in the current changes is the 24 the same route as the 22 from Hartlepool to Durham or is there changes to it ?

It runs via the 24 route between Peterlee & Durham, ie via Shotton, Haswell and Sherburn

on Vosa today:

PB0002717/239 - ARRIVA DURHAM COUNTY LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP

• Variation Accepted: Operating between Middlesbrough and Durham given service number X12 effective from 04-Jan-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.
  

What is the point in the current changes is the 24 the same route as the 22 from Hartlepool to Durham or is there changes to it ?

From above post, and im not changing from internet explorer.

 The Arriva service 22 and 24 got changed due to passengers in the areas of Wheatley Hill and Thornley having won their campaign to have a direct service back to Sunderland.   The 24 is the same route between Durham and Pennine Drive/Passfield Way then it does the old 22 route to Hartlepool.  The 22 is same route between Durham and Peterlee/A19 then direct to Peterlee Bus station, then onwards same route as the old 24.

on Vosa today:

PB0002717/239 - ARRIVA DURHAM COUNTY LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP

• Variation Accepted: Operating between Middlesbrough and Durham given service number X12 effective from 04-Jan-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.
  

Will the X12 be the X1s that aren't extended to Newcastle to avoid confusion?

Will the X12 be the X1s that aren't extended to Newcastle to avoid confusion?

No, seems X12s will be the X1s - renumbered simply to avoid 'confusion' once both X1s are MAX'd.

I would of numbered the X1 Durham-Middlesbrough as a X2, and split the registration at Durham, just like what GNE did at Peterlee with their X7.

I would of numbered the X1 Durham-Middlesbrough as a X2, and split the registration at Durham, just like what GNE did at Peterlee with their X7.

Arriva stick to the rules hence why the Loftus-Whitby section of the 5 was renumbered X5 last October to avoid any questions from official circles. Instead it seems it will be X12/X2 now.

I would of numbered the X1 Durham-Middlesbrough as a X2, and split the registration at Durham, just like what GNE did at Peterlee with their X7.

Excuse me for being numb here...

What exactly does split registration mean, in the case of the X7 does it basically mean GNE operate two seperate X7's...An X7 from Sunderland to Peterlee and an X7 that operates between P'lee and M'boro...

Does that make sense?

Excuse me for being numb here...

What exactly does split registration mean, in the case of the X7 does it basically mean GNE operate two seperate X7's...An X7 from Sunderland to Peterlee and an X7 that operates between P'lee and M'boro...

Does that make sense?

It's so the route doesn't have to have a tachograph fitted, its a loophole 

It's so the route doesn't have to have a tachograph fitted, its a loophole 

I know it is a way round driving laws, so, with the split in the route, does that make it 2 seperate services that happen to have the same number

If I understand it the way I do (which is probably wrong), I think it's done like that so the service can operate the full length of the route without having to operate under EU regulations with a tachograph. Which is why on the first section of each X7, it displays Peterlee for Middlesbrough or Sunderland.

Excuse me for being numb here...

What exactly does split registration mean, in the case of the X7 does it basically mean GNE operate two seperate X7's...An X7 from Sunderland to Peterlee and an X7 that operates between P'lee and M'boro...

Does that make sense?

The full Middlesbrough to Sunderland route is over the 50km (about 34 miles) restriction that requires vehicles to be fitted with a tachograph (as per the X9/X10, X15/X18 and X93). It also restricts the driver's hour as they would be on the European hours  (maximum single stint is 4 hours 30 minutes, compared to the 5 hours 30 minutes on domestic driving hours). By splitting the service, it avoids the need for a tachograph and also frees the drivers shift pattern up.

Officially here, the Arriva routes done like that (X4/4, X1/X2, 21/X21 and 85/685) are the way it should be done - 2 different legs with different service numbers. However, Stagecoach's split routes across the county are just split using the same route number throughout.

its the same as Arriva 21/X21, 2 different bus services to avoid being tachographed, but passengers can travel through.

I wonder if GNE could split the X9 at Peterlee bus station and the X10 at Peterlee A19 slip road to avoid needing buses with tachographs.

The full Middlesbrough to Sunderland route is over the 50km (about 34 miles) restriction that requires vehicles to be fitted with a tachograph (as per the X9/X10, X15/X18 and X93). It also restricts the driver's hour as they would be on the European hours  (maximum single stint is 4 hours 30 minutes, compared to the 5 hours 30 minutes on domestic driving hours). By splitting the service, it avoids the need for a tachograph and also frees the drivers shift pattern up.

Officially here, the Arriva routes done like that (X4/4, X1/X2, 21/X21 and 85/685) are the way it should be done - 2 different legs with different service numbers. However, Stagecoach's split routes across the county are just split using the same route number throughout.

So really it should be 7/X7 IF IT followed the Arriva example...

Ya live and learn

I'm looking at the 22 on the Arriva's site and below it's got

A future timetable is available: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 - See more at: http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/north-east/se...WswTy.dpuf - but i can't see any changes on the timetable....

I'm looking at the 22 on the Arriva's site and below it's got

A future timetable is available: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 - See more at: http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/north-east/se...WswTy.dpuf - but i can't see any changes on the timetable....

It will probably be the fares that have changed...

If I understand it the way I do (which is probably wrong), I think it's done like that so the service can operate the full length of the route without having to operate under EU regulations with a tachograph. Which is why on the first section of each X7, it displays Peterlee for Middlesbrough or Sunderland.

Stupid EU rules. Why should a driver need more breaks just cos he is driving in one direction rather than backwards and forwards!

Stupid EU rules. Why should a driver need more breaks just cos he is driving in one direction rather than  backwards and forwards!

Would you really argue yourself out of better conditions?