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What's annoying you today? V2

What's annoying you today? V2

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Re: RE: What's annoying you today? V2
(07 Nov 2014, 6:07 pm)Marcus wrote Personally, and while I don't want to sound like I include everyone here, I think he decided to back off from NEB members a bit after Tom & him had that argument, and a few others joined in and made their opinions known. Just my opinion, mind.
Yeah, he did. Tends to only fave one every now and again with me now, but he still does go crazy with other people.
What's annoying you today? V2
(07 Nov 2014, 6:14 pm)Dan wrote Yeah, he did. Tends to only fave one every now and again with me now, but he still does go crazy with other people.

Again, not meaning to sound paranoid, but I think it's a just a bit creepy that he seems to know who NEB members are (one or two who don't have similar Flickr names) and gets most of his info from here, yet fails to have made an account....? It's almost like he stalks the forum....but you could say that for the majority of guests, to be fair.

Also, whenever I comment on a photo of his, he responds within 30 secs to 1 minute! Creeps me out *slightly*.
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
Was on the metro and some man and a woman was playing music dead loud on the metro they looked rather drunk as they had a Fosters can in they hand
Favourite Company is: Go North East
Favourite Operator in UK is: EYMS
Owner of Bella the Cat

Mood right now: Fustrated and Feel Left Out
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
My bloody uni assignment. We were only given 2 weeks to do a massive assignment, due in on Monday. The example we were shown as a template was 45 pages long (including fancy front covers, contents pages, references and so on), so I've decided I'm going to actually go into uni tomorrow (even though it's a Saturday) and camp out in the library for the day.
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
After managing to avoid breaking it for 17 months, today the inevitable finally happened........my camera died Sad

Thanks to the rain at yesterday's launch, it died thanks to being soaking wet - so I left it overnight to dry out (with the lense still extended as it died moments after taking my last photo). Come to try it this morning - still wouldn't turn it on. So, put it back down and went to bed for a bit. Meanwhile my grandma gave it a few goes with the hairdryer. However, when it finally did turn on, the lense zoom retracted and then jammed.

So, that's £200+ quid of my as-yet-non-existence wages gone before I've even got them  Sad
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
The rain yesterday was awful, I got stuck in it for 30 minutes waiting outside North Road Morrisons for the X66 because all the OAPS were huddled up together in the bus shelter, typical enough it stopped just after the X66 got out of Darlington.
What's annoying you today? V2
(08 Nov 2014, 2:05 pm)Kuyoyo wrote After managing to avoid breaking it for 17 months, today the inevitable finally happened........my camera died Sad

Thanks to the rain at yesterday's launch, it died thanks to being soaking wet - so I left it overnight to dry out (with the lense still extended as it died moments after taking my last photo). Come to try it this morning - still wouldn't turn it on. So, put it back down and went to bed for a bit. Meanwhile my grandma gave it a few goes with the hairdryer. However, when it finally did turn on, the lense zoom retracted and then jammed.

So, that's £200+ quid of my as-yet-non-existence wages gone before I've even got them  Sad

My condolences
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
(08 Nov 2014, 2:05 pm)Kuyoyo wrote After managing to avoid breaking it for 17 months, today the inevitable finally happened........my camera died Sad

Thanks to the rain at yesterday's launch, it died thanks to being soaking wet - so I left it overnight to dry out (with the lense still extended as it died moments after taking my last photo). Come to try it this morning - still wouldn't turn it on. So, put it back down and went to bed for a bit. Meanwhile my grandma gave it a few goes with the hairdryer. However, when it finally did turn on, the lense zoom retracted and then jammed.

So, that's £200+ quid of my as-yet-non-existence wages gone before I've even got them  Sad

Ouch Sad could try removing the battery, and sticking it in a bag of dried rice? Hairdryer can cause more problems than not though believe it or not.

Was for this reason I didn't bother yesterday. Didn't fancy having to buy a new camera body 'cause of the rain.
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RE: What's annoying you today? V2
Wants to favour a few bus photos on Flickr but the guy has blocked me for no daft reason on flickr he is a user on this forum I feel rather upset about it I cannot favour his photos and it annoys me to death he has blocked others when they have done nothing wrong somebody needs to tell him to stop being rude and arrogant towards bus spotters and be nice to the up and coming ones aka the ones who want to know him but get rejected straight away
Favourite Company is: Go North East
Favourite Operator in UK is: EYMS
Owner of Bella the Cat

Mood right now: Fustrated and Feel Left Out
Site Administrator
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 12:55 am)Racer_Experience wrote Wants to favour a few bus photos on Flickr but the guy has blocked me for no daft reason on flickr he is a user on this forum I feel rather upset about it I cannot favour his photos and it annoys me to death he has blocked others when they have done nothing wrong somebody needs to tell him to stop being rude and arrogant towards bus spotters and be nice to the up and coming ones aka the ones who want to know him but get rejected straight away

Please remember the one and only rule for this thread...

"A rule I'd like to implement for this thread alone is for it not to be used to target any users of the forum. If you have an issue with any user on this forum and wish to discuss it with them, please use the Private Messaging facility, as this will prevent the entire community getting involved and escalating the issue even further!"
Site Administrator
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
Flickr is playing funny buggers again... Hardly any images are loading that in the batch which I've just attempted to upload, and it seems to be a wide-spread problem with many users complaining on their help forums about the same thing. I should have done this last night instead!
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
I'm seriously confused as to what happened last night. Finished town quite early (was on the 1:15 N56) and I remember going straight home and going straight to bed at 1:45ish. From there though it is an absolute blur. My brain says I went straight to sleep but my phone says I was texting friends at 3:15 this morning. To make matters worse I didn't get up for Church this morning.
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
Apart from Jimmi needing his own thread about his annoyances, we need a thread just for Adams drunken adventures and love life    Wink
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
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RE: What's annoying you today? V2
Anyone read Wilkie Collins' "The Woman in White"?

I was meant to finish it over half term for A-Level English, but found it far too boring and difficult to understand to even begin to finish the first section of the book. Our teacher gave us another week to complete it, yet I'm still only on Page 120ish out of 600. I tend to dip in and out of 'learning styles' (visual/auditory/kinaesthetic), but I find I'm an auditory learner in English. I'm listening to an audiobook version as it's read out loud and helps me understand what some of the more difficult (dated) language means as I have time to think about it, but I'm only 265 minutes in (which is one fifth of the entire book) and I'm meant to have finished it by tomorrow.

I've tried to explain to the teacher in the past that I don't enjoy reading as it is, without being forced to read something which I can hardly understand and isn't, in my opinion, interesting in the slightest - but she loves reading and everything about it and fails to understand why I'm not the same. It doesn't help that the only other student in my class (who hasn't read the book) told the teacher last week that she had read about 400 pages. In reality, her mam has just talked her through the plot of the book and she's only able to answer simple questions about the plot.

Honestly haven't got time to read a 600-page novel in such a short period of time whilst doing all of my other work for school as well as balancing that with my interests outside of school...

And just so you can get a feel for what the font size for this 600-page 1860s novel is...

.jpg 20141109_181338.jpg
What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 6:09 pm)Dan wrote Anyone read Wilkie Collins' "The Woman in White"?

I was meant to finish it over half term for A-Level English, but found it far too boring and difficult to understand to even begin to finish the first section of the book. Our teacher gave us another week to complete it, yet I'm still only on Page 120ish out of 600. I tend to dip in and out of 'learning styles' (visual/auditory/kinaesthetic), but I find I'm an auditory learner in English. I'm listening to an audiobook version as it's read out loud and helps me understand what some of the more difficult (dated) language means as I have time to think about it, but I'm only 265 minutes in (which is one fifth of the entire book) and I'm meant to have finished it by tomorrow.

I've tried to explain to the teacher in the past that I don't enjoy reading as it is, without being forced to read something which I can hardly understand and isn't, in my opinion, interesting in the slightest - but she loves reading and everything about it and fails to understand why I'm not the same. It doesn't help that the only other student in my class (who hasn't read the book) told the teacher last week that she had read about 400 pages. In reality, her mam has just talked her through the plot of the book and she's only able to answer simple questions about the plot.

Honestly haven't got time to read a 600-page novel in such a short period of time whilst doing all of my other work for school as well as balancing that with my interests outside of school...

And just so you can get a feel for what the font size for this 600-page 1860s novel is...

In Year 8, I had a maths teacher like that. He was an engineer before he was a maths teacher, and whenever he set us an 'online homework', you could relate it to engineering! It could be something as simple as getting a digger to dig up so many scoops of dirt until you've filled eight twelfths of a hole, but he wouldn't go on anything other!

And as a maths teacher, he was just as relentless about the way he carried out that job! If you couldn't do a twenty page test for homework because you were moving house - instant bad comment!

My science teacher this year is just as bad, if not worse!

Just to throw it in, I absolutely love English, but I absolutely hate reading! - it's the most gruelling, and time consuming task a person can undergo!
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 5:43 pm)Andreos1 wrote Apart from Jimmi needing his own thread about his annoyances, we need a thread just for Adams drunken adventures and love life    Wink

hahaha I'm sure the thread would quite easily fill up if it was created Tongue

Those Skittle drinks are canny lethal like, but for 2 for £5 in Gotham, you can't complain. They don't seem that strong but once you have a few they hit you more or less instantly. I still seriously cannot remember what happened between getting home and waking up this morning Undecided

Me and my new found uni friends are trying to organise a night out in the not too distant future. Chances are it will be on a Saturday night, so if you're out in town, watch out for the N56s because I'll probably be on one of them.

It can be a new game for you Tongue

#WheresAdam
#TipsyTimes
#hashtagsonneb
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 6:22 pm)Marcus wrote In Year 8, I had a maths teacher like that. He was an engineer before he was a maths teacher, and whenever he set us an 'online homework', you could relate it to engineering! It could be something as simple as getting a digger to dig up so many scoops of dirt until you've filled eight twelfths of a hole, but he wouldn't go on anything other!

And as a maths teacher, he was just as relentless about the way he carried out that job! If you couldn't do a twenty page test for homework because you were moving house - instant bad comment!

My science teacher this year is just as bad, if not worse!

Just to throw it in, I absolutely love English, but I absolutely hate reading! - it's the most gruelling, and time consuming task a person can undergo!

I hate all aspects of English, it's the worst lesson if you exclude Drama.
Poetry and S&L are the worst parts. 
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RE: What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 6:22 pm)Marcus wrote In Year 8, I had a maths teacher like that. He was an engineer before he was a maths teacher, and whenever he set us an 'online homework', you could relate it to engineering! It could be something as simple as getting a digger to dig up so many scoops of dirt until you've filled eight twelfths of a hole, but he wouldn't go on anything other!

And as a maths teacher, he was just as relentless about the way he carried out that job! If you couldn't do a twenty page test for homework because you were moving house - instant bad comment!

My science teacher this year is just as bad, if not worse!

The entire English department in my school has had a huge shake-up due to the Head of English (who teaches GCSE and A-Level English) taking some time off school for an operation, so all of the English teachers in my school are feeling the pressure. Despite leaving a month ago, everyone is still discussing the huge impact on the school that the Head of English's departure has had. I was talking to a teacher the other day who said that it's quite difficult for them as teachers, as they had no idea what had been covered under the wing of the Head of English, and students are seemingly feeling abandoned by her and haven't got a clue where they stand which has reflected on the work which they're producing. I wholeheartedly agreed, as I'm enjoying English a lot less than I did in September, and it's getting to the point where I'm hoping for opportunities to miss the lessons.

I've discussed my problems with two other English teachers (both of whom are having to teach GCSE English despite having not taught it in years) and they've both been quite understanding about it. One of them even commented on the fact that even she, as an English teacher, doesn't like reading. I think the main issue is that the teacher we've now got for A-Level English has expectations of our reading abilities which are far too high; indeed, neither of us like reading, so we can't read anywhere near as much as she expects us to. I personally think this stems from the fact that she loves reading and has read "The Woman in White" several times for 'pleasure'.

The teacher who has gone on the sick was a lot more understanding and had explained to us before she left that she wasn't the type to set strict deadlines to read the whole thing; however, she did expect students to get through it before she planned for us to start on the coursework. Just wish my current English teacher was as understanding...
What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 6:28 pm)Adam wrote hahaha I'm sure the thread would quite easily fill up if it was created Tongue

Those Skittle drinks are canny lethal like, but for 2 for £5 in Gotham, you can't complain. They don't seem that strong but once you have a few they hit you more or less instantly. I still seriously cannot remember what happened between getting home and waking up this morning Undecided

Me and my new found uni friends are trying to organise a night out in the not too distant future. Chances are it will be on a Saturday night, so if you're out in town, watch out for the N56s because I'll probably be on one of them.

It can be a new game for you Tongue

#WheresAdam
#TipsyTimes
#hashtagsonneb

I suppose we could have a game about what I get up to at school.

I am unbelievably infatuated with a female in my year, and I spend my break times and lunches dodging her at all costs. Nobody can ever find me at break because I'm walking up and down the main corridor repeatedly until the bell goes and I then take the route she doesn't take to her next class.....

I've liked her for almost 2 years now and she doesn't seem to give a crap for me. Trust me, it was a massive blow to my confidence, and her friends pissing me off at every moment is a reason I just don't hang around with my friends at any free time....and one or two of my teachers have actually asked me if I have any friends ....

I basically use all of my lessons to socialise.
What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 6:33 pm)Dan wrote The entire English department in my school has had a huge shake-up due to the Head of English (who teaches GCSE and A-Level English) taking some time off school for an operation, so all of the English teachers in my school are feeling the pressure. Despite leaving a month ago, everyone is still discussing the huge impact on the school that the Head of English's departure has had. I was talking to a teacher the other day who said that it's quite difficult for them as teachers, as they had no idea what had been covered under the wing of the Head of English, and students are seemingly feeling abandoned by her and haven't got a clue where they stand which has reflected on the work which they're producing. I wholeheartedly agreed, as I'm enjoying English a lot less than I did in September, and it's getting to the point where I'm hoping for opportunities to miss the lessons.

I've discussed my problems with two other English teachers (both of whom are having to teach GCSE English despite having not taught it in years) and they've both been quite understanding about it. One of them even commented on the fact that even she, as an English teacher, doesn't like reading. I think the main issue is that the teacher we've now got for A-Level English has expectations of our reading abilities which are far too high; indeed, neither of us like reading, so we can't read anywhere near as much as she expects us to. I personally think this stems from the fact that she loves reading and has read "The Woman in White" several times for 'pleasure'.

The teacher who has gone on the sick was a lot more understanding and had explained to us before she left that she wasn't the type to set strict deadlines to read the whole thing; however, she did expect students to get through it before she planned for us to start on the coursework. Just wish my current English teacher was as understanding...

I had the Head of English at our school for one hour a week last year, and she was really nice.

Sometimes at break times when I do emerge from the clutches of the main building and wander into the link (see post above), she'll say hello and ask me how I'm enjoying English this year, etc.
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 6:33 pm)Marcus wrote I suppose we could have a game about what I get up to at school.

I am unbelievably infatuated with a female in my year, and I spend my break times and lunches dodging her at all costs. Nobody can ever find me at break because I'm walking up and down the main corridor repeatedly until the bell goes and I then take the route she doesn't take to her next class.....

I've liked her for almost 2 years now and she doesn't seem to give a crap for me. Trust me, it was a massive blow to my confidence, and her friends pissing me off at every moment is a reason I just don't hang around with my friends at any free time....and one or two of my teachers have actually asked me if I have any friends ....

I basically use all of my lessons to socialise - some people think I'm a bit anti-social!

Sometimes, bad things happen for a reason. Just think of it as a learning curve. How you deal with these learning curves shapes who you are. Don't avoid everyone at breaktimes and lunchtimes because of a minor thing like this. There are some things in life you have to adopt a "grin and bare it" attitude towards.

As for her friends, just ignore them. I know it is easier to say than do, but showing your agitation of them will encourage them to do it more often. If you ignore them, they'll soon get bored and probably will stop. Simply put it down to "banter".

Mini anecdote for you. One of my friends liked this lass all the way through Secondary and Sixth Form. It was an open secret amongst the year group. At the Y13 prom, one part of the night was an awards ceremony, with one of the categories being "Cringiest Couple". A few people voted for my friend and his crush. They didn't win, but they got a shoutout. He still hasn't forgave us for it.
What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 6:47 pm)Adam wrote Sometimes, bad things happen for a reason. Just think of it as a learning curve. How you deal with these learning curves shapes who you are. Don't avoid everyone at breaktimes and lunchtimes because of a minor thing like this. There are some things in life you have to adopt a "grin and bare it" attitude towards.

As for her friends, just ignore them. I know it is easier than do, but being agitated by them will encourage them to do it more often. If you ignore them, they'll soon get bored and probably will stop. Simply put it down to "banter".

Mini anecdote for you. One of my friends liked this lass all the way through Secondary and Sixth Form. It was an open secret amongst the year group. At the Y13 prom, one part of the night was an awards ceremony, with one of the categories being "Cringiest Couple". A few people voted for my friend and his crush. They didn't win, but they got a shoutout. He still hasn't forgave us for it.

Meh, I'm in a bad mood for the night unfortunately because I've just checked her Instagram and she's uploaded a photo of Luke (THE FUCKING PENGUIN) Hemmings with the emoji for a description!!!! It's celebrities like him who give people like me absolutely no chance.....he's Camp as Christmas!!!

Thanks for the advice though, Adam, but I'm just naturally awkward, sadly. I've been like this for 2 years, always watching over my own shoulder like I'm being watched by her friends.

One time we had a special day where we get one teacher for the whole day and do boring activities (Go-Ahead). I told one of my friends that if I got a crap teacher and he got a good teacher, I would wave at her. Unfortunately things didn't pan out the way I wanted.....

I stood at the top of the hall and waved down at her and her terrorist friends, but a revolt of other boys got a hold of me and I soon found myself being sat down right next to her. I swear to god I have never been so scared in my life! - I didn't say anything after five minutes, and neither did she. So I just gave them all a 'fuck you' look and walked back to roam the corridors......

Nothing ever goes right for me....the only thing that keeps me happy is my hobby!

Edit: Also, the problem with me trying to forget about it, is the fact that when somebody hears of my name, they instantly think of me liking her. Pretty much everyone in my year gives me crap about it, even if it is banter....

Rant Over
Marxista Fozzski
Re: RE: What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 6:55 pm)Marcus wrote Meh, I'm in a bad mood for the night unfortunately because I've just checked her Instagram and she's uploaded a photo of Luke (THE FUCKING PENGUIN) Hemmings with the emoji for a description!!!! It's celebrities like him who give people like me absolutely no chance.....he's Camp as Christmas!!!

Thanks for the advice though, Adam, but I'm just naturally awkward, sadly. I've been like this for 2 years, always watching over my own shoulder like I'm being watched by her friends.

One time we had a special day where we get one teacher for the whole day and do boring activities (Go-Ahead). I told one of my friends that if I got a crap teacher and he got a good teacher, I would wave at her. Unfortunately things didn't pan out the way I wanted.....

I stood at the top of the hall and waved down at her and her terrorist friends, but a revolt of other boys got a hold of me and I soon found myself being sat down right next to her. I swear to god I have never been so scared in my life! - I didn't say anything after five minutes, and neither did she. So I just gave them all a 'fuck you' look and walked back to roam the corridors......

Nothing ever goes right for me....the only thing that keeps me happy is my hobby!

Edit: Also, the problem with me trying to forget about it, is the fact that when somebody hears of my name, they instantly think of me liking her. Pretty much everyone in my year gives me crap about it, even if it is banter....

Rant Over

FFS Marcus, dont let the bastards grind you down, you like someone, whoopedy do, the people teasing you about it are doing it, because they know it bothers you...dont let it bother you, I had similar kinds of issues at school, just my tormentors werema bit more vicious in there bullying tactics, look at me, I am a bitter old fool, just try not to let it hassle you mate, they will soon get bored if they are not getting your back up. I am still having this kind of trouble today, at 32, it is no secret I have a bit of an interest for a young lady in Seaham and I wont do anything about it because I have worked too hard to have my pride dented...

I dare you to try catch her alone, tell her how you feel, if she tells you where to go, move on, there are plenty more fish in the sea and there is a massive out there...

Bloody hell, I should practice what I preach Tongue
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 6:55 pm)Marcus wrote Meh, I'm in a bad mood for the night unfortunately because I've just checked her Instagram and she's uploaded a photo of Luke (THE FUCKING PENGUIN) Hemmings with the emoji for a description!!!! It's celebrities like him who give people like me absolutely no chance.....he's Camp as Christmas!!!

Thanks for the advice though, Adam, but I'm just naturally awkward, sadly. I've been like this for 2 years, always watching over my own shoulder like I'm being watched by her friends.

One time we had a special day where we get one teacher for the whole day and do boring activities (Go-Ahead). I told one of my friends that if I got a crap teacher and he got a good teacher, I would wave at her. Unfortunately things didn't pan out the way I wanted.....

I stood at the top of the hall and waved down at her and her terrorist friends, but a revolt of other boys got a hold of me and I soon found myself being sat down right next to her. I swear to god I have never been so scared in my life! - I didn't say anything after five minutes, and neither did she. So I just gave them all a 'fuck you' look and walked back to roam the corridors......

Nothing ever goes right for me....the only thing that keeps me happy is my hobby!

Edit: Also, the problem with me trying to forget about it, is the fact that when somebody hears of my name, they instantly think of me liking her. Pretty much everyone in my year gives me crap about it, even if it is banter....

Rant Over

Obviously, I don't know the kid but why would you label him as a penguin?

Surely, with a name like Luke Hemmings, the nickname 'Lemmings' (or the Lemming) would be more appropriate?
What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 7:12 pm)marxistafozzski wrote FFS Marcus, dont let the bastards grind you down, you like someone, whoopedy do, the people teasing you about it are doing it, because they know it bothers you...dont let it bother you, I had similar kinds of issues at school, just my tormentors werema bit more vicious in there bullying tactics, look at me, I am a bitter old fool, just try not to let it hassle you mate, they will soon get bored if they are not getting your back up. I am still having this kind of trouble today, at 32, it is no secret I have a bit of an interest for a young lady in Seaham and I wont do anything about it because I have worked too hard to have my pride dented...

I dare you to try catch her alone, tell her how you feel, if she tells you where to go, move on, there are plenty more fish in the sea and there is a massive out there...

Bloody hell, I should practice what I preach Tongue

Thanks Fozz Smile

It's just been going on for nearly 2 years, and I've almost adapted to hibernation between the hours of 11:15-35 & 12:35-13:35!

Thing is, if I tried to catch her alone, she would just tell me to go away and stop following her. Many a time her friends have told me her mam (or mum - she's quite well-spoken! Dodgy) thinks I'm a stalker and should get a serious telling-off (WTF?!) - and that she (the girl) thinks I'm a pervert of some sort....Sad
What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 7:16 pm)AdamY wrote Obviously, I don't know the kid but why would you label him as a penguin?

Surely, with a name like Luke Hemmings, the nickname 'Lemmings' (or the Lemming) would be more appropriate?

Oh, that's his Instagram name! - I think he's in that shameful band '5 Seconds of Summer' or something.
RE: What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 7:17 pm)Marcus wrote Oh, that's his Instagram name! - I think he's in that shameful band '5 Seconds of Summer' or something.

I honestly thought he was some kid from your school.

So he's just another pointless celebrity whose work I'm unfamiliar with.
Marxista Fozzski
Re: RE: What's annoying you today? V2
(09 Nov 2014, 7:16 pm)Marcus wrote Thanks Fozz Smile

It's just been going on for nearly 2 years, and I've almost adapted to hibernation between the hours of 11:15-35 & 12:35-13:35!

Thing is, if I tried to catch her alone, she would just tell me to go away and stop following her. Many a time her friends have told me her mam (or mum - she's quite well-spoken! Dodgy) thinks I'm a stalker and should get a serious telling-off (WTF?!) - and that she (the girl) thinks I'm a pervert of some sort....Sad

Damn...A pervert stalker, ouch...