(09 Jan 2015, 7:45 pm)Dan wrote Well...  

You're a few months too late, I'm afraid! 

Well the thought was there.

As I'm sure you've been told at some point, that's what counts! 

(09 Jan 2015, 7:39 pm)Kuyoyo wrote X21 is going to need something before long - the Spackle is on its way after all 

I'm not sure why Go North East need to consider Arriva upgrading their services to "Sapphire" and "MAX" specification as a threat?

When a service is converted to "Sapphire" specification, Arriva only expects to see organic growth, at a rate of 6% in the first year of conversion, and a further 3% in the second year of conversion. The organic growth is expected to be generated by providing a more reliable service, which is marketed as a premium product.

The 'sparkle' may be on its way, but I think it would be irrational to suggest that Go North East's current fare-paying passengers will migrate to use Arriva's equivalent services. When travelling from Newcastle to Bishop Auckland, Go North East's "Pronto" X21 service takes just 1hr 22min. To complete the equivalent journey by Arriva's services, customers would have to connect from the X2 service to the 6 service in Durham. If you happen to be travelling on an xx:50 X2 departure out of Newcastle to complete the same journey, the journey would take 1hr 47min, and this relies on meeting a 12-minute connection in Durham.

As stated previously, power sockets appeal to me as a heavy mobile phone user. In the previous comparison of Go North East's TEN / Toon Link services between Newcastle and Blaydon, the journey time differed by 6 minutes. In this example, the difference in journey time is 25 minutes. If using Arriva's services isn't cheaper than Go North East's, even I (as someone who usually opts to travel by the bus with power sockets over the one which doesn't) wouldn't migrate from my current service to another... 

I work with a lot of people from Bishop Auckland, and most tend to use the Arriva 6, based on both price and frequency. GNE offer a Pronto saver for £22.50 a week, which is cheaper than a two zone Buzzfare (£24.50), but Arriva's weekly ticket is £16.90 (Bishop Auckland zones). 4-weekly would be £85.55 compared to £60.50. 

Looking at the Buzzfare zone map actually, it's perhaps an issue created by the zones not really being reviewed since they were brought in? Perhaps Tudhoe, Spenny, and Bishop Auckland should be part of the Green zone instead? If that was the case, then at £18.00, you'd be competing. 

(09 Jan 2015, 9:12 pm)aureolin wrote Looking at the Buzzfare zone map actually, it's perhaps an issue created by the zones not really being reviewed since they were brought in? Perhaps Tudhoe, Spenny, and Bishop Auckland should be part of the Green zone instead? If that was the case, then at £18.00, you'd be competing. 

I think you're right, they need to update the zones.

Just get rid of the zones and introduce a system that doesn't punish those living near a border or two.
Quite amazing how borders/boundaries were positioned.

If you take Bournmoor (or its nearby cousin a mile to the south) and its administrative town (Chester) as one example...
No doubt there are many more.

(09 Jan 2015, 9:17 pm)Andreos1 wrote Just get rid of the zones and introduce a system that doesn't punish those living near a border or two.
Quite amazing how borders/boundaries were positioned.

If you take Bournmoor (or its nearby cousin a mile to the south) and its administrative town (Chester) as one example...
No doubt there are many more.

A statement describing it's residents.

(09 Jan 2015, 9:17 pm)Andreos1 wrote Just get rid of the zones and introduce a system that doesn't punish those living near a border or two.
Quite amazing how borders/boundaries were positioned.

If you take Bournmoor (or its nearby cousin a mile to the south) and its administrative town (Chester) as one example...
No doubt there are many more.

but on the flip side...how many people benefit from a zonal system?

(09 Jan 2015, 9:08 pm)aureolin wrote I work with a lot of people from Bishop Auckland, and most tend to use the Arriva 6, based on both price and frequency. GNE offer a Pronto saver for £22.50 a week, which is cheaper than a two zone Buzzfare (£24.50), but Arriva's weekly ticket is £16.90 (Bishop Auckland zones). 4-weekly would be £85.55 compared to £60.50. 

Between Durham and Bishop Auckland, I don't think anyone could argue against Arriva providing the superior service (and this is without the added 'sparkle' on service 6). The fares and frequencies between the two operators aren't competitive for a reason: the main purpose of service X21 is to link passengers from Bishop Auckland to Chester-le-Street and Newcastle, which is why this was the focus of my previous post.

You correctly quote that Go North East's "Pronto Saver" is £22.50/week. That allows travel all the way from Bishop Auckland to Newcastle, and includes the further four buses per hour from Durham to Newcastle that the "Angel" 21 service adds. Arriva's "North East All Zones" ticket costs £27.20/week, or £91.00/28 days.

(09 Jan 2015, 9:21 pm)citaro5284 wrote but on the flip side...how many people benefit from a zonal system?

I'd suggest that all customers who purchase a one zone BuzzFare ticket actually benefit from the zonal system.

For argument's sake, let's say the price for a day ticket would be the average cost of the current three prices (£4.75, £6.20, £7.70), which would be approximately £6.20. All customers who would have otherwise purchased a one zone BuzzFare would be £1.45 out of pocket each day...

(09 Jan 2015, 9:21 pm)Dan wrote Between Durham and Bishop Auckland, I don't think anyone could argue against Arriva providing the superior service (and this is without the added 'sparkle' on service 6). The fares and frequencies between the two operators aren't competitive for a reason: the main purpose of service X21 is to link passengers from Bishop Auckland to Chester-le-Street and Newcastle, which is why this was the focus of my previous post.

Most New College students seem to get the X21 rather than get the more frequent 6 then 62/64/X2 up to Framwellgate Moor. Was probably part of the reason 6 was extended.to Framwellgate Moor at peak times.

@Citaro5284

No idea.
Quite a few saw their fares increase massively when the system was relaunched.
Quite a few have seen a boundary introduced around their administrative towns.
Quite a few have seen arbitrary zones introduced in the section between Consett and Newcastle.

That red zone is canny though. Can get a bargain day out, so suppose passengers living there have seen some benefit (despite those living in the T&W part paying almost twice the price following the changes (see first paragraph).

There will always be winners and losers as has been pointed out a few times.

(09 Jan 2015, 9:30 pm)Andreos1 wrote @Citaro5284

No idea.
Quite a few saw their fares increase massively when the system was relaunched.
Quite a few have seen a boundary introduced around their administrative towns.
Quite a few have seen arbitrary zones introduced in the section between Consett and Newcastle.

That red zone is canny though. Can get a bargain day out, so suppose passengers living there have seen some benefit (despite those living in the T&W part paying almost twice the price following the changes (see first paragraph).

There will always be winners and losers as has been pointed out a few times.

That's not the only one which, in my opinion, offers good value...

Green, Red and Blue (also covering Gateshead/Metrocentre in Purple) cover quite a distance and would get quite a lot of people to work... When the OK1 was operational, I think that Turquoise also offered tremendous value for money. Do agree with aureolin that Green should include the parts covered by the X21 though, now that the OK1 has been withdrawn.

(09 Jan 2015, 9:35 pm)Dan wrote That's not the only one which, in my opinion, offers good value...

Green, Red and Blue (also covering Gateshead/Metrocentre in Purple) cover quite a distance and would get quite a lot of people to work... When the OK1 was operational, I think that Turquoise also offered tremendous value for money. Do agree with aureolin that Green should include the parts covered by the X21 though, now that the OK1 has been withdrawn.

And then you look at the Orange Zone and think which numpty came up with this System

(09 Jan 2015, 9:50 pm)Malarkey wrote And then you look at the Orange Zone and think which numpty came up with this System

That one has always confused me. It came about when Go North East gained the Hexham operations from Arriva (March 2010), but I have no idea why Blyth/Ashington were included in the same zone...

(09 Jan 2015, 9:52 pm)Dan wrote That one has always confused me. It came about when Go North East gained the Hexham operations from Arriva (March 2010), but I have no idea why Blyth/Ashington were included in the same zone...

In my opinion the Hexham Operations should of went into the Cherry Zone, while Blyth/Ashington should of went into the Blue Zone which would of been most logical, I can only imagine how much Profit Go North East has made on 2 to 3+ Zone Buzzfares in these Areas in the last 5 Years.

(09 Jan 2015, 10:00 pm)Malarkey wrote In my opinion the Hexham Operations should of went into the Cherry Zone, while Blyth/Ashington should of went into the Blue Zone which would of been most logical, I can only imagine how much Profit Go North East has made on 2 to 3+ Zone Buzzfares in these Areas in the last 5 Years.

and how much do you imagine.....bearing in mind extra costs to travel the extra miles to Blyth and Hexham?

(09 Jan 2015, 10:00 pm)Malarkey wrote In my opinion the Hexham Operations should of went into the Cherry Zone, while Blyth/Ashington should of went into the Blue Zone which would of been most logical, I can only imagine how much Profit Go North East has made on 2 to 3+ Zone Buzzfares in these Areas in the last 5 Years.

If you completely removed the orange zone and morphed the places currently in this zone into the closest zones, you'd have to up the price of a one zone ticket... Arriva's Blyth and T&W Triple ticket costs £5.80. A single BuzzFare zone ticket costs £4.75...

@Malarkey

Or from the system full stop.
Costs didn't increase overnight, but on axing the T&W ticket, fares did.

Saying that, travelling prior to 2006, I never bought an adult day ticket, other than a GNE product.
Had Teen Traveltickets, but never bothered with the adult equivalents.
Since 2006, I have very rarely purchased a GNE product, other than singles and very rarely a red or red/green when going that way.
The Day Rover and weekly/monthly equivalents are no brainers as far as I am concerned. Offering fantastic flexibility throughout Tyne and Wear - not just a couple of zones.
If a bus is late, I can jump on a metro. If the metro is having issues, I jump on a bus.
I can get on any operator and have a day out at the weekend too - getting fish and chips at North Shields along the way, after jumping on the ferry.

(09 Jan 2015, 10:05 pm)Dan wrote If you completely removed the orange zone and morphed the places currently in this zone into the closest zones, you'd have to up the price of a one zone ticket... Arriva's Blyth and T&W Triple ticket costs £5.80. A single BuzzFare zone ticket costs £4.75...

And a return from Newcastle to Blyth is cheaper than Arriva's single offering.

(09 Jan 2015, 10:05 pm)Dan wrote If you completely removed the orange zone and morphed the places currently in this zone into the closest zones, you'd have to up the price of a one zone ticket... Arriva's Blyth and T&W Triple ticket costs £5.80. A single BuzzFare zone ticket costs £4.75...

But what if a TEN Day Saver was introduced at around £5.20 to go alongside the Weekly Savers currently offered at £15.10 and £22.50, it would make Traveling by Bus in that area more affordable for Passengers who perhaps only Travel between Hexham and Newcastle once or twice a week and being diddled out of £7.70 in the process, surely this would also result in significant passenger growth also.

(09 Jan 2015, 10:26 pm)Malarkey wrote But what if a TEN Day Saver was introduced at around £5.20 to go alongside the Weekly Savers currently offered at £15.10 and £22.50, it would make Traveling by Bus in that area more affordable for Passengers who perhaps only Travel between Hexham and Newcastle once or twice a week and being diddled out of £7.70 in the process, surely this would also result in significant passenger growth also.

So how many daily route savers would you need to cover the network?

(09 Jan 2015, 10:26 pm)Malarkey wrote But what if a TEN Day Saver was introduced at around £5.20 to go alongside the Weekly Savers currently offered at £15.10 and £22.50, it would make Traveling by Bus in that area more affordable for Passengers who perhaps only Travel between Hexham and Newcastle once or twice a week and being diddled out of £7.70 in the process, surely this would also result in significant passenger growth also.

I think a max return is £5.70 though? 
Seems a bit pointless.

(09 Jan 2015, 9:21 pm)Dan wrote Between Durham and Bishop Auckland, I don't think anyone could argue against Arriva providing the superior service (and this is without the added 'sparkle' on service 6). The fares and frequencies between the two operators aren't competitive for a reason: the main purpose of service X21 is to link passengers from Bishop Auckland to Chester-le-Street and Newcastle, which is why this was the focus of my previous post.

You correctly quote that Go North East's "Pronto Saver" is £22.50/week. That allows travel all the way from Bishop Auckland to Newcastle, and includes the further four buses per hour from Durham to Newcastle that the "Angel" 21 service adds. Arriva's "North East All Zones" ticket costs £27.20/week, or £91.00/28 days.

I forgot about the 'Wear Valley Saver' being introduced in August 2013...

Wear Valley Saver - £13.00
Unlimited travel on Pronto X21 between Durham & Bishop Auckland and The OK Way 18 between Bishop & West Aucklands.

So even on the Bishop Auckland - Durham section, which is not the main focus of the route, Go North East's weekly ticket for this section of the route is £3.90 cheaper than Arriva's equivalent. The final X21 of the evening terminates at Bishop Auckland at 00:37am, but Arriva's 6 terminates at 23:12.

Don't think Go North East has much to worry about - with or without new buses...

(09 Jan 2015, 10:32 pm)citaro5284 wrote So how many daily route savers would you need to cover the network?

23 if we were going off the Branded Network of Services.

(09 Jan 2015, 10:47 pm)Malarkey wrote 23 if we were going off the Branded Network of Services.

Services 9 and 17 have both been held under a brand in the past, but neither are now.

Do you stop offering a route saver when a brand is revoked?

(09 Jan 2015, 10:50 pm)Dan wrote Services 9 and 17 have both been held under a brand in the past, but neither are now.

Do you stop offering a route saver when a brand is revoked?

Of course not as it would be completely illogical, as the Passenger would then have to pay the fare for what Zones they're travelling within.

(09 Jan 2015, 11:07 pm)Malarkey wrote Of course not as it would be completely illogical, as the Passenger would then have to pay the fare for what Zones they're travelling within.

So in reality you're offering a lot more route savers than what you've suggested, and it becomes awfully complex as some services which aren't branded have them while others don't.

It's a no from me...

When the 96 was removed from the brand it had been in for several years, is it correct that passengers were no longer eligible for the route saver ticket?
If so, their fares went up overnight, with a purple ticket being the only GNE day ticket alternative.

All for the sake of a bus being in a different colour...

Just to throw my view in, I think only the mainstream routes, maybe the top 15 at a push, should have route savers.

Anything that could justify one should have one.

(09 Jan 2015, 11:49 pm)Andreos1 wrote When the 96 was removed from the brand it had been in for several years, is it correct that passengers were no longer eligible for the route saver ticket?
If so, their fares went up overnight, with a purple ticket being the only GNE day ticket alternative.

All for the sake of a bus being in a different colour...

Yup. It appears you are correct:

https://web.archive.org/web/201201022011...highwayman (Jan 2nd 2012)

http://www.simplygo.com/all-services/highwayman (Now)

(09 Jan 2015, 11:49 pm)Andreos1 wrote When the 96 was removed from the brand it had been in for several years, is it correct that passengers were no longer eligible for the route saver ticket?
If so, their fares went up overnight, with a purple ticket being the only GNE day ticket alternative.

All for the sake of a bus being in a different colour...

(10 Jan 2015, 10:00 am)MurdnunoC wrote Yup. It appears you are correct:

https://web.archive.org/web/201201022011...highwayman (Jan 2nd 2012)

http://www.simplygo.com/all-services/highwayman (Now)

Although services 95/96 are no longer held under the "The Highwayman" brand, I don't think there's anything to suggest that this ticket is still not available to buy on-board these buses, even if it is not advertised now.

The services were removed from the "The Highwayman" brand in September 2012, when newer Scania L94UB/Wright Solar vehicles arrived in. The Volvo B10BLEs previously allocated were deployed at various depots, one of which was Deptford, where the green Volvo B10BLEs were often allocated to services 2A/2C and X3.

I have looked through Go North East's website and Social Media pages from August 2012 - October 2012, and I cannot find anything which states that this ticket was no longer provided on services 95/96. Surely at least one customer would have complained during this time period?

I think if we want to know the answer, the best bet is for one of us to ask Customer Services.