(11 Feb 2015, 2:39 pm)Davie wrote Although I think this is very unlikely, I'd quite like to see Versas on the Coaster

Nah they wouldn't put Versas on the 1/1A.

Haway Citaro,

You've got all of the forum members liking your posts which are just silly 

Put them in a list and post them on the forum, go on, like everyone says be a Diamond. 

(11 Feb 2015, 4:17 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote Haway Citaro,

You've got all of the forum members liking your posts which are just silly 

Put them in a list and post them on the forum, go on, like everyone says be a Diamond. 

He wont do that as it puts his job at risk as such information shoudnt hit the public domain as Dan has pointed out on more than one occasion in the past, so simple answer is no citaro5284 isnt going to tell us anything in regards to New Vehicles, and my comment a few days a go about being a "Diamond" was merely Tongue and Cheek, obviously here it has been taken out of context, sure you can wait for another couple of weeks until the first vehicle arrives, until then you can keep on second guessing yourself along with myself and everyone else on the Forum  .

StreetLites for X66
StreetLites for Lime
StreetLites for Diamond
E400MMC for Angel
E400MMC for Toon Link
StreetLites for revised QuayLink services

(11 Feb 2015, 4:36 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote StreetLites for X66
StreetLites for Lime
StreetLites for Diamond
E400MMC for Angel
E400MMC for Toon Link
StreetLites for revised QuayLink services

I doubt it...

The E400MMC would be perfect for the 21. However, I think that for the Pronto, the best way would be this:

- 309 and 310 / X39 split only interworking on a Sunday daytime.
- 309 operated by 6101 - 6110.
- All evening and Sunday 309 / 310 journeys operated by whatever is needed out of 6101 - 6110.
- 7x MK1 bodied euro 6 Enviro 400s ordered for the 310 / X39.
- 2x red MK1 bodied euro 6 Enviro 400s ordered as spares for all Cobalt Clipper services.
- 6111 - 6117 transferred to Crook for X21 and joined alongside 3942 acting as a spare.

(11 Feb 2015, 4:46 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote The E400MMC would be perfect for the 21. However, I think that for the Pronto, the best way would be this:

- 309 and 310 / X39 split only interworking on a Sunday daytime.
- 309 operated by 6101 - 6110.
- All evening and Sunday 309 / 310 journeys operated by whatever is needed out of 6101 - 6110.
- 7x MK1 bodied euro 6 Enviro 400s ordered for the 310 / X39.
- 2x red MK1 bodied euro 6 Enviro 400s ordered as spares for all Cobalt Clipper services.
- 6111 - 6117 transferred to Crook for X21 and joined alongside 3942 acting as a spare.

Why would they order new buses for the 310 when they just got some......

(11 Feb 2015, 4:55 pm)Michael wrote Why would they order new buses for the 310 when they just got some......

Remember, all Davey goes on about is the E400MMC and how he thinks all the routes that have got new buses in the last 5 years will be upgraded soon...

(11 Feb 2015, 4:55 pm)Michael wrote Why would they order new buses for the 310 when they just got some......

Well, becuase the Pronto needs a powerful vehicle and the only time the 310 benefits from power is between Station Road and Benfield Road.

(11 Feb 2015, 5:01 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Well, becuase the Pronto needs a powerful vehicle and the only time the 310 benefits from power is between Station Road and Benfield Road.

They do, but why would they have to re-buy buses for the 310 when they could just spend money on the X21.

This means money on paint etc is saved....


Other routes need new buses, some routes like the Toonlink, Pronto, Lime/X66 (which they should get soon), FAB 57, the X40 will be replaced by the Q3, which will it allow it to gain Versa's (Under a new brand?)

The Red Kite hasn't had any new buses since it was launched in 2007... 

(11 Feb 2015, 5:03 pm)Michael wrote They do, but why would they have to re-buy buses for the 310 when they could just spend money on the X21.

This means money on paint etc is saved....


Other routes need new buses, some routes like the Toonlink, Pronto, Lime/X66 (which they should get soon), FAB 57, the X40 will be replaced by the Q3, which will it allow it to gain Versa's (Under a new brand?)

The Red Kite hasn't had any new buses since it was launched in 2007... 

It has been strongly suggested (not confirmed obviously) that the Red Kite will get new buses with the omnicites transferring to PM to replace the B10s on service 17. Will also mean that the omnicities on the 9 and 17 can be shared providing they arent branded. 

(11 Feb 2015, 5:01 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Well, becuase the Pronto needs a powerful vehicle and the only time the 310 benefits from power is between Station Road and Benfield Road.

I don't think the X21 needs a large amount of power, I know it goes down the A1(M) and fast parts of the A167 but I think Enviros would possibly be fine.

Although the Wright demonstrator it had last year was a little slow down the A167 between Cock O' the North and Croxdale when I rode it. Some will say that it often fell behind the timetable on the X21 and Toonlink services but I don't think these delays were all down to being underpowered I think part of the problem was that it was carrying the Lothian colours which would have been confusing people along with the unusual destination screens so some people had difficulty in finding if it was on their service and which operator the bus was with.

(11 Feb 2015, 5:10 pm)Robert wrote It has been strongly suggested (not confirmed obviously) that the Red Kite will get new buses with the omnicites transferring to PM to replace the B10s on service 17. Will also mean that the omnicities on the 9 and 17 can be shared providing they arent branded. 

I reckon the Red Kite could do with a few deckers. Some runs I've seen with OmniCities are full to the brim - when I had 3822 a few weeks ago it was packed, got knows if it had been an Omni!

(11 Feb 2015, 5:10 pm)Robert wrote It has been strongly suggested (not confirmed obviously) that the Red Kite will get new buses with the omnicites transferring to PM to replace the B10s on service 17. Will also mean that the omnicities on the 9 and 17 can be shared providing they arent branded. 

I reckon it will get the Citaros from the 27.

And I think the 17 will get a proper brand.

(11 Feb 2015, 5:12 pm)Jimmi wrote I don't think the X21 needs a large amount of power, I know it goes down the A1(M) and fast parts of the A167 but I think Enviros would possibly be fine.

Although the Wright demonstrator it had last year was a little slow down the A167 between Cock O' the North and Croxdale when I rode it. Some will say that it often fell behind the timetable on the X21 and Toonlink services but I don't think these delays were all down to being underpowered I think part of the problem was that it was carrying the Lothian colours which would have been confusing people along with the unusual destination screens so some people had difficulty in finding if it was on their service and which operator the bus was with.

I think Enviro's will be fine on most of GNE's services, I don't think, from what I know, any are as challenging as Arriva's X18, and the new E400's on there manage fine.

(11 Feb 2015, 5:20 pm)mb134 wrote I think Enviro's will be fine on most of GNE's services, I don't think, from what I know, any are as challenging as Arriva's X18, and the new E400's on there manage fine.

If they can handle the X18 they can easily do the Pronto X21.

Not done the X18 but I've heard it's pretty tough.

(11 Feb 2015, 5:23 pm)Jimmi wrote If they can handle the X18 they can easily do the Pronto X21.

Not done the X18 but I've heard it's pretty tough.

It's the hills that make it tough, in my opinion, there's one on the way into Bamburgh (If I remember correctly) which is long, and reasonably steep, both of the Enviros that I've been up there on recently went up like there was nothing there (7517/32)

(11 Feb 2015, 5:12 pm)Jimmi wrote I don't think the X21 needs a large amount of power, I know it goes down the A1(M) and fast parts of the A167 but I think Enviros would possibly be fine.

Although the Wright demonstrator it had last year was a little slow down the A167 between Cock O' the North and Croxdale when I rode it. Some will say that it often fell behind the timetable on the X21 and Toonlink services but I don't think these delays were all down to being underpowered I think part of the problem was that it was carrying the Lothian colours which would have been confusing people along with the unusual destination screens so some people had difficulty in finding if it was on their service and which operator the bus was with.

Think about it long term though, any of the existing B9s in GNE's fleet would happily get hammered between Bishop and Newcastle for 7 years with no major issues bar common electrical faults often found on Wrightbus bodies. On the ither hand, an Enviro 400 would start suffering from various mechanical problems after 3-4 years and passengers wouod then endure 3 years of suffering from an unreliable service. It would be a TTX B7 (2009 - 2012) da ja vu all over again and I know that 6043 - 6048 haven't been perfect but they've pretty much done the job.

I hope the Red Kite is inline for new buses, the 9 would still be Omnicity/B7/Vyking ran due to Deptford having to use decker's =(.

However here is my predication's:

Lime - 15 (2 spare, 1 for Chester, 1 for Stanley) - Streetlites
X66 - 5 - Streetlites
Pronto - 7 (1 spare) - E400
ToonLink - 14 (1 spare) - E400
Fab 57 - 5 - Steetlites
Crusader - 14 (1 spare) - E400 

(11 Feb 2015, 5:26 pm)mb134 wrote It's the hills that make it tough, in my opinion, there's one on the way into Bamburgh (If I remember correctly) which is long, and reasonably steep, both of the Enviros that I've been up there on recently went up like there was nothing there (7517/32)

Hills aren't really a problem on the X21 all it has to get up is Sunderland Bridge (Croxdale) and Coundongate (just outside Bishop) which an E400 should easily get up and also the A1(M) slip roads.

(11 Feb 2015, 5:32 pm)Michael wrote I hope the Red Kite is inline for new buses, the 9 would still be Omnicity/B7/Vyking ran due to Deptford having to use decker's =(.





However here is my predication's:





Lime - 15 (2 spare, 1 for Chester, 1 for Stanley) - Streetlites


X66 - 5 - Streetlites


Pronto - 8 (1 spare) - E400


ToonLink - 14 (1 spare) - E400


Fab 57 - 5 - Steetlites


Crusader - 14 (1 spare) - E400 

Pronto only has a PVR of 6 minus some extra morning / evening journeys.

(11 Feb 2015, 5:35 pm)Jimmi wrote Pronto only has a PVR of 6 minus some extra morning / evening journeys.

Oh right, just on the fleet list it has 7.. it must be a spare (i'll edit my post)

(11 Feb 2015, 5:38 pm)Michael wrote Oh right, just on the fleet list it has 7.. it must be a spare (i'll edit my post)

Yeah the Pronto has a branded spare.

(11 Feb 2015, 5:33 pm)Jimmi wrote Hills aren't really a problem on the X21 all it has to get up is Sunderland Bridge (Croxdale) and Coundongate (just outside Bishop) which an E400 should easily get up and also the A1(M) slip roads.

After using the newer batches on routes such as the X18, my opinion of E400's has changed drastically. Yes there are a couple that are mind-blowwingly slow but for the most part, all of 7514 onwards seem pretty good. So I think that, if the X21 is as easy as it seems, I reckon E400's would be a very good buy.

(11 Feb 2015, 5:42 pm)mb134 wrote After using the newer batches on routes such as the X18, my opinion of E400's has changed drastically. Yes there are a couple that are mind-blowwingly slow but for the most part, all of 7514 onwards seem pretty good. So I think that, if the X21 is as easy as it seems, I reckon E400's would be a very good buy.

People on here seem to make the X21 out to be a heavily demanding route just because it heads down the A1 (only a small stretch) but I don't think it is at all.

At least all this talk of E400s handling demanding routes fine is putting my mind at ease for when we get them on the Sapphire 7.

(11 Feb 2015, 5:55 pm)Jimmi wrote People on here seem to make the X21 out to be a heavily demanding route just because it heads down the A1 (only a small stretch) but I don't think it is at all.

At least all this talk of E400s handling demanding routes fine is putting my mind at ease for when we get them on the Sapphire 7.

Honestly, if you have a look at the Sapphire X21/22 and see a late one, nine times out of ten it will be a refurbished example. (In my experiences anyway)

(11 Feb 2015, 6:01 pm)mb134 wrote Honestly, if you have a look at the Sapphire X21/22 and see a late one, nine times out of ten it will be a refurbished example. (In my experiences anyway)

The new examples have been fine when I've had them, managed to avoid the referb examples.

So again if they can do the Sapphire X21/X22 they can easily do the Pronto.

(11 Feb 2015, 6:01 pm)mb134 wrote Honestly, if you have a look at the Sapphire X21/22 and see a late one, nine times out of ten it will be a refurbished example. (In my experiences anyway)

Although does this suggest that, over time, ADL products lose their touch? We've been quick to sing the praises of new ADL Enviro400s lately, but there doesn't seem to be many positive comments about older examples...

The Red Kite services, as Michael pointed out, have had their allocated OmniCitys since 2007 (ie 8 years this year). The same could apply to the Pronto if it was to receive investment. In my opinion, I don't think the ADL Enviro400s on the X18 will be quite as nice in 2022...

(11 Feb 2015, 6:09 pm)Dan wrote Although does this suggest that, over time, ADL products lose their touch? We've been quick to sing the praises of new ADL Enviro400s lately, but there doesn't seem to be many positive comments about older examples...

The Red Kite services, as Michael pointed out, have had their allocated OmniCitys since 2007 (ie 8 years this year). The same could apply to the Pronto if it was to receive investment. In my opinion, I don't think the ADL Enviro400s on the X18 will be quite as nice in 2022...

I guess you could look at it that way, however:

7501-13 (excluding 7510) were new in January 2008.
7514-21 were new 1 and a half years later.

Now, I rode 7517 (still a 5 and a half year old bus) on Sunday for a 3 and a half hour X18 journey from Berwick to Morpeth, and I can honestly say that it was a mile better than any of the 57 reg examples despite only being a year younger. I then rode 7508 the other day on an X21, it had no pace and took ages to get up to any sort of speed at all. I really do not think that 7517 can get that bad in a year and a bit. Therefore, in my opinion, the newer batches are better buses, or maybe have been looked after a bit better?

(11 Feb 2015, 6:09 pm)Dan wrote Although does this suggest that, over time, ADL products lose their touch? We've been quick to sing the praises of new ADL Enviro400s lately, but there doesn't seem to be many positive comments about older examples...

The Red Kite services, as Michael pointed out, have had their allocated OmniCitys since 2007 (ie 8 years this year). The same could apply to the Pronto if it was to receive investment. In my opinion, I don't think the ADL Enviro400s on the X18 will be quite as nice in 2022...

Thing is though the older Arriva examples have been hammered on some of the toughest routes in the region maybe even the whole UK so it is little wonder they keep having problems, the same could be said for the ex TTX B7TLs look at how bad they were before being replaced by B9TLs on the X9/X10 with 3964 developing a troublesome reputation even after it had been taken off the TTX.

If E400s are bought for the Pronto they aren't going on a massively demanding route and on evenings and Sundays the X21 currently interworks with the 21 using the hybrids so they'd all be tucked up by about 8pm? Mon - Sat and have a day off on Sundays if the X21 continues to interwork with the 21 using it's buses.