So looking at the Derwentside changes, the X70 could be saved with only a PVR increase of 1. Big caveat is branding. Will post something with slightly more detail another time. Some of the routes mentioned will form common headways.

6:
- Stanley to Newcastle only but otherwise unchanged.

7 - Every 60 mins:
- Current X72 route Stanley to Sunniside then X30/X31 route to Newcastle.

- Evenings via Burnopfield rather than Sleepy Village.

X7 - Every 60 mins:
- Current X31 route from Stanley to Newcastle.

X70 - Every 60 mins:
- Current 6 route Lanchester to Stanley, then current X30 route to Sunniside, then current X72 route to Newcastle.

X71 - Every 60 mins:
- Same as now.

X72 - Every 60 mins:
- Current X70 route from Consett to Newcastle.

The common headways would be......
- 7/X7 - Sunniside to Newcastle via Whickham and Dunston.
- 7/X72 - Dipton, Crookgate and Sunniside to Newcastle.
- X7/X70 - Stanley, Causey Road and Sunniside to Newcastle.
- X71/X72 - Consett, Burnopfield, Crookgate, Sunniside, Lobley Hill and Gateshead to Newcastle.
- X70/X71/X72 - Sunniside, Lobley Hill and Gateshead to Newcastle.

Current PVRs - Total 20x (after 24/07)......
- 6 - 7x (excludes service 12)
- X30/X31/X45 - 8x
- X71/X72 - 5x

Suggested PVRs - Total 21x......
- 6 - 5x (excludes service 12)
- 7/X7/X45 - 9x
- X70/X71/X72 - 7x

(17 Jul 2022, 8:58 pm)L469 YVK wrote So looking at the Derwentside changes, the X70 could be saved with only a PVR increase of 1. Big caveat is branding. Will post something with slightly more detail another time. Some of the routes mentioned will form common headways.

6:
- Stanley to Newcastle only but otherwise unchanged.

7 - Every 60 mins:
- Current X72 route Stanley to Sunniside then X30/X31 route to Newcastle.

- Evenings via Burnopfield rather than Sleepy Village.

X7 - Every 60 mins:
- Current X31 route from Stanley to Newcastle.

X70 - Every 60 mins:
- Current 6 route Lanchester to Stanley, then current X30 route to Sunniside, then current X72 route to Newcastle.

X71 - Every 60 mins:
- Same as now.

X72 - Every 60 mins:
- Current X70 route from Consett to Newcastle.

The common headways would be......
- 7/X7 - Sunniside to Newcastle via Whickham and Dunston.
- 7/X72 - Dipton, Crookgate and Sunniside to Newcastle.
- X7/X70 - Stanley, Causey Road and Sunniside to Newcastle.
- X71/X72 - Consett, Burnopfield, Crookgate, Sunniside, Lobley Hill and Gateshead to Newcastle.
- X70/X71/X72 - Sunniside, Lobley Hill and Gateshead to Newcastle.

Current PVRs - Total 20x (after 24/07)......
- 6 - 7x (excludes service 12)
- X30/X31/X45 - 8x
- X71/X72 - 5x

Suggested PVRs - Total 21x......
- 6 - 5x (excludes service 12)
- 7/X7/X45 - 9x
- X70/X71/X72 - 7x

What about the low height bridge at Dunston?

(17 Jul 2022, 9:20 pm)Andreos1 wrote What about the low height bridge at Dunston?

Woah!

Don't suggest something like that when he's on full-on PVR psychosis mode, man.

It may tip him over the edge!!

(17 Jul 2022, 9:37 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Woah!

Don't suggest something like that when he's on full-on PVR psychosis mode, man.

It may tip him over the edge!!

Talking of the low bridge at Dunston, did the 41/42 go underneath?

Also would Stanley - Burnopfield - Rowlands Gill (old 714) then as X45 work?

(17 Jul 2022, 9:41 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Talking of the low bridge at Dunston, did the 41/42 go underneath?

Also would Stanley - Burnopfield - Rowlands Gill (old 714) then as X45 work?

Yep. As did the 642/M40 (and 648/649) using a variety of double deckers including Olympians and Metrobuses.

(Look, another straight answer. Twice tonight).

(17 Jul 2022, 9:44 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Yep. As did the 642/M40 (and 648/649) using a variety of double deckers including Olympians and Metrobuses.

(Look, another straight answer. Twice tonight).

I've actually done a idea about the M40 ironically. I was going to allocate a Mellor Strata on this.

(17 Jul 2022, 8:58 pm)L469 YVK wrote So looking at the Derwentside changes, the X70 could be saved with only a PVR increase of 1. Big caveat is branding. Will post something with slightly more detail another time. Some of the routes mentioned will form common headways.

6:
- Stanley to Newcastle only but otherwise unchanged.

7 - Every 60 mins:
- Current X72 route Stanley to Sunniside then X30/X31 route to Newcastle.

- Evenings via Burnopfield rather than Sleepy Village.

X7 - Every 60 mins:
- Current X31 route from Stanley to Newcastle.

X70 - Every 60 mins:
- Current 6 route Lanchester to Stanley, then current X30 route to Sunniside, then current X72 route to Newcastle.

X71 - Every 60 mins:
- Same as now.

X72 - Every 60 mins:
- Current X70 route from Consett to Newcastle.

The common headways would be......
- 7/X7 - Sunniside to Newcastle via Whickham and Dunston.
- 7/X72 - Dipton, Crookgate and Sunniside to Newcastle.
- X7/X70 - Stanley, Causey Road and Sunniside to Newcastle.
- X71/X72 - Consett, Burnopfield, Crookgate, Sunniside, Lobley Hill and Gateshead to Newcastle.
- X70/X71/X72 - Sunniside, Lobley Hill and Gateshead to Newcastle.

Current PVRs - Total 20x (after 24/07)......
- 6 - 7x (excludes service 12)
- X30/X31/X45 - 8x
- X71/X72 - 5x

Suggested PVRs - Total 21x......
- 6 - 5x (excludes service 12)
- 7/X7/X45 - 9x
- X70/X71/X72 - 7x

ngl that's so confusing imo.

Personally I'd try something different like or ironically harking to the past:

43 - The old 43 from Newcastle to Stanley, every 30 minutes.
44 - The old 44, instead serving the X72 route between Sunniside and Dipton to Annfield Plain only, every 30 minutes.
X42 - X31 to Sunniside, X72 to Newcastle via Gateshead extended to Annfield Plain, hourly
X43 - X30 extended to Lanchester, hourly

X70/X71 - both hourly

6 withdrawn.

I haven't worked out PVR's and won't either but by god is much easier to understand and there's only one bus an hour using the famous bridge in Dunston. The 43/44 used to be a busy little route and it's ridiculous there isn't a bus between Annfield Plain or Dipton and the Metro Centre or Stanley and Gateshead around the world.

With the 25 drivers needing to take remote reliefs, is there any way it could serve The Galleries without too much inconvenience to avoid this.

X8 North Sheilds - South Shields - Sunderland - Seaham - Dalton Park - Billingham - Middlesbrough - Whitby - Scarbrough

(22 Jul 2022, 8:28 am)ASX_Terranova wrote With the 25 drivers needing to take remote reliefs, is there any way it could serve The Galleries without too much inconvenience to avoid this.

Not really, to serve the Galleries you'd have to either miss the Birtley to CLS section out (like the 81), or have it follow the 8 route from CLS to Washington. Either way would need more buses and drivers.

With the X70/62/55 gone I thought I would say what I would do with them.

55 & 62 renumbered 36/37 or 62 63 

36/63 Peterlee > Shotton > Easington Lane > Hetton > Murton > Dalton Park > A19 > Doxford > A690 > Sunderland Stand R/A.

37/62 Peterlee > Easington Lane > Murton > Dalton Park > Spectrum Business Park > Dawdon > Parkside > Seaham > Avenue > A1018 > Burdon Lane > Hall Farm > Doxford > A690 > Sunderland.

Every 60 Mins, every 30 mins together.

X70 

Extended upto Kingston Park

Just looking at the routes today imo this would be better

25 - 81 Bus Route Every 30 Minutes Monday to Sat, Every Hour Sundays and Evenings
8 - Stanley to Washington only additionally serving Vigo Lane, North Road and Newcastle Road instead of Picktree (covered by 50) - Every 30 Minutes, Mon - Sat, Every Hour Sundays and Evenings

81/82/82A withdrawn.

I'll re-simplify my idea from the other day. Same principle but easier route numbering.........

6:
- Stanley to Newcastle only with X30 replacing section between Stanley and Lanchester.

X30 - every 60 mins:
- Same as 6 between Lanchester and Stanley, then same as now to Sunniside, then same as X72 between Sunniside and Newcastle. All journeys via Lobley Hill Estate.

X31 - every 60 mins:
- Same as now.

X32- every 60 mins:
- Same as X72 between Stanley and Sunniside including evening variation as appropriate. Then same as X31 between Sunniside and Newcastle.

X70 - every 60 mins:
- Same as before 24/07.

X71 - every 60 mins:
- Same as before 24/07.

X72 - withdrawn:
- Replaced by X32 and X30.


Combined frequencies.......

- X30/X31 - Stanley - Kip Hill - Sunniside - Newcastle = Up to approximately every 30 mins

- X31/X32 - Sunniside - Whickham - Dunston - Central Station - Newcastle = Every 30 mins

- X30/X70/X71 - Sunniside - Lobley Hill - Gateshead - Newcastle = Up to every 20 mins

Also even headway on X70/X71 on common parts between Consett and Sunniside. Also even headway with X32/X70 to and from Dipton.

(24 Jul 2022, 10:01 am)Storx wrote Just looking at the routes today imo this would be better

25  - 81 Bus Route Every 30 Minutes Monday to Sat, Every Hour Sundays and Evenings
8 - Stanley to Washington only additionally serving Vigo Lane, North Road and Newcastle Road instead of Picktree (covered by 50) - Every 30 Minutes, Mon - Sat, Every Hour Sundays and Evenings

81/82/82A withdrawn.

I agree that the new setup with the 81/82/83/25 daytime vs evening is overly confusing. Can't see the 8 being changed however as of course that's commercial where the rest are contracted. Personally I think the 25/82/82A should be merged into the 81/83, providing a half hourly service from Gateshead to Washington to Barmston Court extending to Waterview Park/Sunderland on evenings/Sundays. Only downside is you're reducing connectivity taking away the link to Chester

(24 Jul 2022, 4:04 pm)peter wrote I agree that the new setup with the 81/82/83/25 daytime vs evening is overly confusing. Can't see the 8 being changed however as of course that's commercial where the rest are contracted. Personally I think the 25/82/82A should be merged into the 81/83, providing a half hourly service from Gateshead to Washington to Barmston Court extending to Waterview Park/Sunderland on evenings/Sundays. Only downside is you're reducing connectivity taking away the link to Chester

Yeah that wouldn't be a bad shout either, I don't believe the 81 is going to Sunderland on an evening though is it? There's just absolutely no service at all now which is a bit crap imo.

Suppose if you made those changes you could extend the TB14 to Chester Le Street since the TB23/24 would pretty much become redundant additionally serving Elisabeth Avenue which would keep the Chester Links.

Personally though I'd like to see more co-operation even if it does mean changing routes a bit. I'm not sure GNE would be bothered if they got the 25 on a permanent deal without it going out for a tender and I don't really get the point of the 8, it's such a long route offering nothing unique either side of CLS - Washington really, at least with the 81 all day. Birtley and Low Fell would get a direct service to Washington and Sunderland which someone might want rather than another service to CLS.

(24 Jul 2022, 4:58 pm)Storx wrote Yeah that wouldn't be a bad shout either, I don't believe the 81 is going to Sunderland on an evening though is it? There's just absolutely no service at all now which is a bit crap imo.

Suppose if you made those changes you could extend the TB14 to Chester Le Street since the TB23/24 would pretty much become redundant additionally serving Elisabeth Avenue which would keep the Chester Links.

Personally though I'd like to see more co-operation even if it does mean changing routes a bit. I'm not sure GNE would be bothered if they got the 25 on a permanent deal without it going out for a tender and I don't really get the point of the 8, it's such a long route offering nothing unique either side of CLS really, at least with the 81 all day. Birtley and Low Fell would get a direct service to Washington and Sunderland which someone might want rather than another service to CLS.

I would like to see the 81 also serve Newcastle as well. It will be interesting tomorrow to see what happens with the 82/82A and how busy they are.

61/61A
61 diverted via Royal Hospital in Sunderland. Through services to take a simplified route through Murton and re-numbered 62.
61A diverted via Sunderland Winter Gardens and Murton East Moor Estate, also runs opposite-direction loop around Murton. Retimed to run hourly through the day.

61 and 61A interwork with each other, PVR 3. Allocation; ex-Violet Citaros.

62
Through services on the 61 renumbered to 62. These will take a simplified route in Murton (Dalton Park <> Woods Terrace <> Barnes Road <> Wellfield Road <> Station Estate), also diverted via East Durham College in Peterlee.

Standalone, PVR 2. Allocation; any 2 of 8339-42.

63/X63
New route 63 to re-establish links between Dawdon and Dalton Park/Peterlee.
X6 renumbered to X63 with timetable change.
EDIT: Minor correction - 63 and X63 depart from Stand A at Sunderland.

63, 206 and X63 interwork with each other, PVR 4. Allocation; Peterlee Solo. 206 added with its current timetable to create some extra buffer time in case of delays. 38 runs independently every 30 minutes (PVR 1).

(24 Jul 2022, 5:06 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote I would like to see the 81 also serve Newcastle as well. It will be interesting tomorrow to see what happens with the 82/82A and how busy they are.

Missed opportunity in my opinion however there is the issue of the 28B/81 operating within less than 10 Minutes of each other between Gateshead Interchange and Chowdene Bank (Gold Medal) before they separate off route wise.

I do think as well the 81 should operate daily throughout the week on the side of the half hour which the 25 will no longer be operating as of tomorrow with it now becoming an hourly service, this would maintain a 30 minute frequency between Newcastle and Barley Mow, i'd also like to see an Xpress Service given it does take 90 mins from Gateshead to Sunderland on the 81.

I've suggested in the past Newcastle - Gateshead - Low Fell (The Cannon) non-stop via A1 to Washington Galleries - Penshaw - Grindon Mill - Royal Hospital - Sunderland Interchange which could be operated on an Hourly Basis.

(24 Jul 2022, 8:08 pm)Malarkey wrote Missed opportunity in my opinion however there is the issue of the 28B/81 operating within less than 10 Minutes of each other between Gateshead Interchange and Chowdene Bank (Gold Medal) before they separate off route wise.

I do think as well the 81 should operate daily throughout the week on the side of the half hour which the 25 will no longer be operating as of tomorrow with it now becoming an hourly service, this would maintain a 30 minute frequency between Newcastle and Barley Mow, i'd also like to see an Xpress Service given it does take 90 mins from Gateshead to Sunderland on the 81.

I've suggested in the past Newcastle - Gateshead - Low Fell (The Cannon) non-stop via A1 to Washington Galleries - Penshaw - Grindon Mill - Royal Hospital - Sunderland Interchange which could be operated on an Hourly Basis.

I half agree with you. 

The 81/82 Should be Half Hourly Barmston Court, Washington Village The Galleries, Lambton, Ayton, Barley Mow, Portobello, Birtley, Lansbury Drive. I would have the 81 serving Saltwell Road South to reinstate those links and 82 doing as is now.

81: Barmston Court, Washington Village The Galleries, Lambton, Ayton, Barley Mow, Portobello, Birtley, Lansbury Drive, Harlow Green, Saltwell Road, Gateshead, Newcastle.

82: Barmston Court, Washington Village The Galleries, Lambton, Ayton, Barley Mow, Portobello, Birtley, Lansbury Drive, Wrekenton, Q.E Hospital, Gateshead, Newcastle.

(24 Jul 2022, 8:08 pm)Malarkey wrote Missed opportunity in my opinion however there is the issue of the 28B/81 operating within less than 10 Minutes of each other between Gateshead Interchange and Chowdene Bank (Gold Medal) before they separate off route wise.

I do think as well the 81 should operate daily throughout the week on the side of the half hour which the 25 will no longer be operating as of tomorrow with it now becoming an hourly service, this would maintain a 30 minute frequency between Newcastle and Barley Mow, i'd also like to see an Xpress Service given it does take 90 mins from Gateshead to Sunderland on the 81.

I've suggested in the past Newcastle - Gateshead - Low Fell (The Cannon) non-stop via A1 to Washington Galleries - Penshaw - Grindon Mill - Royal Hospital - Sunderland Interchange which could be operated on an Hourly Basis.

The 81 doesn't go to Newcastle, it terminates at Gateshead (just noticed tbf).

imo the 8/25/81/82/83/TB14/TB23/TB24 need to be consolidated into a few routes. It's a right mess imo. One service during the day, another at night by different operators absolutely useless as it is.

As mentioned before the best routing would be imo - slightly changed added with the 23.

23: CLS to North Lodge (702), to Barley Mow to Kibblesworth (TB14) (Hourly with Breadvans/Minibus, No Evening Service / Sundays)
25: Newcastle to Barmston via 81 route (Hour Hourly with Minibuses/Midibus, Hourly in Evenings)
8: Stanley to Washington (Half Hourly)
EXT: Washington to Sunderland (8 Route) either left on the end of the 8 or added to the end of the 25 - that'll need discussion between the bus operators though what's best.
701: Hourly replacing 702 runs interworking with 700/703 as now.

81/82/83/TB14/TB23/TB24/702 withdrawn.

(24 Jul 2022, 8:45 pm)Storx wrote The 81 doesn't go to Newcastle, it terminates at Gateshead (just noticed tbf).

imo the 8/25/81/82/83/TB14/TB23/TB24 need to be consolidated into a few routes. It's a right mess imo. One service during the day, another at night by different operators absolutely useless as it is.

As mentioned before the best routing would be imo - slightly changed added with the 23.

23: CLS to North Lodge (702), to Barley Mow to Kibblesworth (TB14) (Hourly with Breadvans/Minibus, No Evening Service / Sundays)
25: Newcastle to Barmston via 81 route (Hour Hourly with Minibuses/Midibus, Hourly in Evenings)
8: Stanley to Washington (Half Hourly)
EXT: Washington to Sunderland (8 Route) either left on the end of the 8 or added to the end of the 25 - that'll need discussion between the bus operators though what's best.
701: Hourly replacing 702 runs interworking with 700/703 as now.

81/82/83/TB14/TB23/TB24/702 withdrawn.

You could have 8 & 25 operating hourly to Sunderland

I think it would be a decent route
based off an old coach trip that ran between Consett and South Shields

X3: Consett - Leadgate - Annfield Plain - Stanley - Chester-le-Street - A1 - Tyne Dock - Westoe - South Shields

New Service 50A: South Shields - Chichester - S.T Hospital - Tyne Dock - Jarrow - Hebburn - Monkton Lane - Washington Galleries - Lambton - Ayton - Barley Mow - Chester-Le-Street - Plawsworth - Newton Hall - Framwellgate Moor - Durham.

Would Give Monkton Lane & Hebburn fast buses to the hospital.
Would allow for Newton Hall passengers to connect to 21/X21 at CLS.
Would provide extra capacity between Washington, CLS & Durham.

Picking up on my post in the disruptions/driver shortages thread;

Would it be worth the 65 doing this route around Seaham in both directions?


Rather than the current anti-clockwise loop


Unless you can get on at any point on the loop prior to Byron Place and go through to Durham, in which case why isn't that publicised?

(27 Jul 2022, 4:17 pm)F114TML wrote Picking up on my post in the disruptions/driver shortages thread;

Would it be worth the 65 doing this route around Seaham in both directions?


Rather than the current anti-clockwise loop


Unless you can get on at any point on the loop prior to Byron Place and go through to Durham, in which case why isn't that publicised?

Why?

(27 Jul 2022, 4:25 pm)deanmachine wrote Why?

Because it hits the same stops in both directions.

On an unrelated note - how do you get the routes highlighted on Google maps?

(27 Jul 2022, 5:28 pm)idiot wrote On an unrelated note - how do you get the routes highlighted on Google maps?

Add a start and end destination and then do loads of via points where you want the route to go basically and fiddle about until you get it right.

Yeah, it's just the driving directions. Obviously doesn't work if your route goes through a bus gate, or a road that's 2 ways for buses but 1-way for cars. On PC, just drag the route it gives to add a via point.

Alternatively, for most existing local routes it now highlights the exact route buses take - I think the stops have to be no more than a certain distance apart (so it often doesn't work for express buses where it just draws a straight line)

Washington Night shift services. 
Based on conversations in the bus changes thread, I've had the following idea.
The routes can be added to/evolved. Not precious.
N1 - Jarrow, Nissan, Cherry Blossom Way, Waterview Park (for Asda), Teal Farm, Pattison Road/Staithes Road (for Asda and Faurecia), Biddick, Galleries, Oxclose, Crowther (for 2 industrial units), BAE/Rolls Royce, Portobello, Birtley Lane, Harras Bank, Durham Road, Chester - could be extended to the likes of Pelton for the guy who also works at Crowther.

N2 - Rickleton, BAE/Rolls Royce, Crowther (for 2 industrial units), Oxclose, Galleries, Biddick, Pattison Road/Staithes Road (for Asda and Faurecia), Teal Farm, Barmston, Nissan, Cherry Blossom Way, Waterview Park (for Asda), Castletown.